Are you better off working at McDonalds than going to college?

[pstokely]

At least if you skipped college and just went to McDonalds or Taco Bell, you could avoid the debt. Many college gradautes can't even get fast food jobs because they're overqualified for them. We have outsourced and H1ed all the jobs that used to be available for college graduates unless you decide to continue to grad school for MBA and then maybe you could be could another overpaid cheap labor lovin' union bustin' CEO.

[ZombieHorde]

1. Money wise? I don't know. Personal development wise? Probably better off going to college. nt

[JI7]

2. it might depend on what you major in and whether you value the education in itself rather than how

much money you will get for getting a degree.

[LibertyFox]

3. McDonalds is all I seem to be qualified for right now.

I have a BA and can't even get a job as a mail clerk, and my first job out of college was at a baggage handler at an airport.

If I had to do it all over again I'd have skipped college and worked on A+ and Network+ certifications and gone from there.

That's what I'm doing now, but 7 years late.

[JI7]

5. i think it's a good idea for students how might want to major in a liberal arts to consider

going to vocational school first just to have some back up for a job. and then they can work on their degree if it's something they personally have interest in regardless of how much money it might bring.

just make sure it's a good school and not one of those for profit phony schools that charge a lot with false claims of job gaurantees.

community colleges offer some of these also.

[Ex Lurker]

8. If I could do it all over again I'd learn welding

Welders are never out of work.

[RadiationTherapy]

27. My brother was a welder in high school.

Had a huge, deadly tumor in his head at age 24. 13 years later, his body is devastated from the radiation.

You just never know.

[Ex Lurker]

28. very sorry to hear that. best wishes to him nt.

[pstokely]

9. Like one of the places that advertises during Jerry Springer on the CW or MY TV station at 10am

"Become something in just a year"

[Ex Lurker]

4. If you can get on the managment track, you can do all right

I know a guy who started working for a fast food chain in his twenties and is a regional bigwig of some kind. He makes pretty good money. Granted, he did pick up his degree along the way, but he started at the bottom.

[pstokely]

6. Did the chain pay for his degree?

Companies used to do that, maybe some still do

[Ex Lurker]

7. not sure about that nt.

[bobbolink]

34. I think McDs pays for at least some of it. An education should be for its own sake, and not

just as a "job ticket".

Education *used* to be seen as important in making better citizens, not just for jobs.

We are making a huge mistake to turn it into only about jobs.

[B Calm]

10. Local McDonald's has over 500 applicants for 12 open jobs. Unhappy Meals

served daily to the working poor. . .

[ejpoeta]

11. i saw a chart once that had two paths... college or high school grad.

and both charts ended up leading the person to mcdonalds. it's sad, but for some it might make sense. but if you don't go to college then you won't have any other options.

[pstokely]

16. but at least if you skip college, you'll avoid student loan debt

and you won't be overqualified for minimum wage jobs that PhDs are applying for

[ejpoeta]

17. that's true.

[JoePhilly]

18. I'm guessing you don't know many PhDs then.

I know lots of them. But not one who is in the situation you suggest.

[ixion]

12. wow... what a question

:wow:

[nebenaube]

14. My thought precisely.... n/t

[TransitJohn]

13. You might be

depends on if your rubric is strictly financial, and how much debt you would take on. It's all about the opportunity cost, I'd think.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. 20K+ per year for college degree.

You do the math, that is if you can :-)

p.s. individual mileage may vary, that is approximately the average bump.

[dynasaw]

19. If You Are Also Willing to Risk Your Life

McRage
Why is there so much violent crime at fast-food restaurants?
http://www.slate.com/id/2292302/


"Fast-food restaurants haven't entirely replaced banks as crime targets, and criminal activity in such places is no longer on the rise. (Crimes like this, however, are.) The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that the number of homicides at "limited service restaurants," which include fast-food chains like McDonald's and KFC, has declined from 35 in 2007 to 15 in 2009. But fast-food establishments like Wendy's and Burger King do see more crime than their "full-service" counterparts, like Ruby Tuesday's or the Olive Garden. BLS estimates that the rate of assaults at limited-service restaurants is more than twice as high as at full-service restaurants. Whereas sit-down restaurants had 0.8 assaults per 10,000 employees in 2009, fast-food joints had 1.8."

[pstokely]

23. and you could also risk your life at a frat party in college

or drink yourself to death

[dynasaw]

20. If You Are Also Willing to Risk Your Life

McRage
Why is there so much violent crime at fast-food restaurants?
http://www.slate.com/id/2292302/


"Fast-food restaurants haven't entirely replaced banks as crime targets, and criminal activity in such places is no longer on the rise. (Crimes like this, however, are.) The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that the number of homicides at "limited service restaurants," which include fast-food chains like McDonald's and KFC, has declined from 35 in 2007 to 15 in 2009. But fast-food establishments like Wendy's and Burger King do see more crime than their "full-service" counterparts, like Ruby Tuesday's or the Olive Garden. BLS estimates that the rate of assaults at limited-service restaurants is more than twice as high as at full-service restaurants. Whereas sit-down restaurants had 0.8 assaults per 10,000 employees in 2009, fast-food joints had 1.8."

[dynasaw]

21. If You Are Also Willing to Risk Your Life

McRage
Why is there so much violent crime at fast-food restaurants?
http://www.slate.com/id/2292302/


"Fast-food restaurants haven't entirely replaced banks as crime targets, and criminal activity in such places is no longer on the rise. (Crimes like this, however, are.) The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that the number of homicides at "limited service restaurants," which include fast-food chains like McDonald's and KFC, has declined from 35 in 2007 to 15 in 2009. But fast-food establishments like Wendy's and Burger King do see more crime than their "full-service" counterparts, like Ruby Tuesday's or the Olive Garden. BLS estimates that the rate of assaults at limited-service restaurants is more than twice as high as at full-service restaurants. Whereas sit-down restaurants had 0.8 assaults per 10,000 employees in 2009, fast-food joints had 1.8."

[MadHound]

22. Depends on what you want to do with your life,

If you want to live a life of limited means, bordering on poverty, then sure, Mickey D's is the ticket for you. If you want to pursue your dreams, and in the long run have a more comfortable life in the long run, then I suggest that at some point you attend college.

[pstokely]

24. But many college gradautes are bordering on poverty

The Bachelors degree is the new high school diploma, creating an oversupply of cheap yet overqualified labor

[MadHound]

25. Overall, over the long term, college grads still make more money than working fast food,

Even taking into consideration paying back their student loans.

Then there is the whole argument that college isn't just about getting a degree in order to get a better job, but also to enlighten oneself, educate oneself.

The powers that be would love nothing more than having an uneducated populace, why give it to them on a silver platter?

[pstokely]

26. They want glorified trade schools to train cashiers and code monkeys

nt

[MadHound]

29. Is that what you consider college to be?

If so, perhaps you went to the wrong college. Or simply signed up for the wrong courses, the wrong major.

My experience, my education was a lot broader than that. But then again I went to a small liberal arts college, with majors in education and history.

Don't judge all of life by your own experiences.

[pstokely]

36. That's what they want to college to be

nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. In 1950, about 6% of the population had a bachelor's degree.

Today it's 40%.

If college caused collective enlightenment, Donald Trump wouldn't be considered a serious 2012 presidential candidate.

Frankly, I think college is the opposite of critical thinking.

[pstokely]

40. You also had a large middle class then, and a large unionized workforce, and no NAFTA

We don't have enough jobs that require a college degree and too many college grads overqualified for the available burger flipping jobs.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. If college doesn't give you the skills for personally fulfilling work...

... and it doesn't enhance your ability to think critically, then it's an expensive party.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Dad was born in 1925.

He left home (they'd call it "running away" today) at age 11. He lived in Hobo camps and did odd jobs such as working for the circus ("kangaroos are mean and they'll kick your ass"). He came to California seated on the fender of a Model "A" which happened to be going that way. He married mom and began a family. With an infant daughter at home, he was drafted in 1943 and shot in the head Belgium in November 1944.

After recovering, he built houses and worked at the shipyard. Most of his carpentry customers were cash poor so he accepted property in exchange. A moderately affluent man, he died of asbestosis in 1995, leaving me his medals and works of poetry.

HE was a critical thinker. I don't think you can purchase it from a college. In fact, I think that the delusion that you can is a major cause of problems today.

[exboyfil]

32. I keep hearing that statement but it really depends

on what you do in High School and college. I would easily put the preparation my daughters receive in Math and Science against anything I did in High School. They will be further ahead than I was at the same grade, and that is the norm for kids. Many kids are starting engineering with already a semester to two semesters to complete. From working with new grads they are as smart and as capable as any students which came out in the 1980s.

I am not as sure about Social Studies and English. My daughters are still in Junior High, and so far I have not been terribly impressed (even though American History has been pretty good for my older daughter).

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. You have to be able to answer the question with more specificity.

If you're going to college because you want a Corvette some day, you're wasting your money.

If all you want is a good income, knock on all the union hall doors. Find out what it takes to be a union electrician, welder, ironworker or pipefitter. Reinvest that income in rental property.

[Generic Other]

30. Too many waste their time in college and end up at McDonald's

these folks should skip college since they got nothing out of it and just go right to flipping burgers.

[snooper2]

31. I worked at McDonalds WHILE going to college

but it's hard :eyes:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

35. I don't know. Can I get a nursing degree at McDonalds?......

I'm thinking.... no.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. What do you want to do? What's your passion?

If you can't answer that question, flip burgers until you can.

Don't spend $30,000 a year to figure it out.

[pstokely]

41. I'm not saying don't go to college, but too many go into debt to finance college

and they have loads of debt and can't even land a burger flipping job because a college education makes them overqualified for the minimum jobs that are the only jobs available. And Bill Gates asks for more H1B visas claiming they aren't enough college grads.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. If you're curiosity about a topic can't be satisfied by the library

go to a community college and take the class.

"But what about the value of a well-rounded education?" Nonsense. "Well-rounded education" is the number #3 meal on the chinese menu. You're eating what the cook has decided you need.

I am entirely cynical about the college industry. The exception is if you really do know what you want and have done the ROI analysis.

[dkf]

42. Why not try to find the most cost effective way of getting a college degree?

That would probably be community college for the first 2 years then a state university.

A practical college degree that will get you a job is definitely worth it. And when the economy picks up it will make more sense.

[ecstatic]

44. umm ok... nice try nt

[NNN0LHI]

45. Didn't have to be college or McDonalds after high school

I had a job where I was making more than my high school teachers were making before I graduated.

People didn't like having those kinds of jobs here in America so now it is either McDonalds or go tens of thousands of dollars into college debt before you get a job. May not even be a job for you when you graduate? But you will have the debt. Guaranteed.

Didn't have to be this way either.

Don

[Spinny Liberal]

47. Like others, I say it depends on the major

Engineering jobs are still plentiful. Anything health care related will always be needed. As a holder of a degree, which along with 5 bucks can get me something tasty at Starbucks, choose your major wisely. You'll thank me later. :-)

[pstokely]

50. They can also import engineers if they can give out H1B visas

We already import cheap labor

[Spinny Liberal]

52. Very true

But here in the Silicon Valley, I think those with engineering degrees won't always be passed up for the imports or the H1B visa holders (which is more difficult to obtain nowadays).

[KamaAina]

49. I once had an assistant who had worked at McDonald's

she has Down syndrome. She had worked at the same Mickey D's for years, and they never even let her work in the front of the store, much less make her assistant manager, as any non-disabled teenager would be after six months or so. (She was in her 30s.) :grr:

[pstokely]

51. But they did in a commercial

:sarcasm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2TETZM0o8o