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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:28 AM
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Recount Day 1 - Winnebago County
quick post with my impressions of the first day of recount in Oshkosh.

A great clerk will make or break a recount, as far as the process is concerned. The Winnebago County Clerk and the Oshkosh City Clerk were prepared with plenty of people, they had everything organized, but they also were flexible enough to make adjustments to the plan once things got going. The room was set up efficiently, which was essential, since it was not a large room. An area was delineated for the general observers, but the campaign's representatives could move about as needed in order to watch the process closely.

When we first got there, we had five people for the Kloppenburg side. That dropped to four partway through the day. There were two Prosser volunteers (?) and a court reporter. The court reporter was sitting in the back corner of the room, so I went to talk with her and ask her who she was working for. She was hired by the Prosser camp. However, she was only there to type in whatever went into the record (I suppose she'd also report on any conflicts that took place, but she couldn't have heard much from where she was. Most of the time she was reading a book, chatting with one of the door watchers, or talking on the phone. I hope the Prosser campaign is paying her $120 per hour! :) The prosser people called in reinforcements partway into the day, so they ended up with probably 8 or 10 people in the room - it was hard to tell how many, as everyone was sort of squished in, and I was trying to focus on my one job of examining and counting ballots. The prosser people who were there were all pretty nice, so it was nothing like attending a tBag rally at the square. Nobody stepped on me, and a couple of us were chatting about going out for drinks afterwards, except that we had a two-hour drive to get back home.

I still have data entry to get in to the Kloppenburg office, so I'm not going to take the time to explain the whole process that we used. The City of Oshkosh, which we started with, uses optical scan machines that were going to be used for the recount of the OS ballots, and electronic machines that had produced a tape. This tape is displayed on election day, so as the voter casts his ballot, he can see the printout that indicates who he voted for.

In the recount, there are several processes going on at any given time, so it's ideal to have several observers at each location. But I'd say if we had only one person observing, I'd have that person examining the OS ballots and counting at that time. After the ballots were counted and sorted for absentees, the pollworker paged through all of the optical scan ballots with both candidates representatives hanging over his shoulder. We had the opportunity to ask him to pull any ballots that we thought might not be scanned properly by the machine. I asked them to pull any Kloppenburg ballots that were marked in ball point pen, or if the oval was not completely filled in, or if someone made an X or line instead of filling in the oval. The ballots that were pulled out were hand counted as soon as we were done sorting through the ballots. Since I was able to examine each ballot, I used a handheld counter to keep a count of the Kloppenburg votes, even though these precincts were not technically being handcounted, they were in essence being handcounted for the Kloppenburg votes. If I had had two counters to use, I could have kept track of Prosser votes, as well. There were no disputes about any of the ballots that were pulled out - voter intent was obvious, so the handcount of those didn't present any disputes.

Of course the first couple of wards were a little bumpy, as everyone figured out the logistics and what the exact process would be, but we never once questioned the intent of the clerks. They take ownership of these elections - not in the way that Kathy Nickolaus does(!) - but by wanting it all to be done properly and clearly. They announce seal numbers as they're being removed from bags, and gave us ample opportunity to examine and take photos of seals and documentation. The few discrepancies in the poll books were worked through until they could figure out exactly what had happened (one number used twice, a person getting marked in the wrong ward, etc.), and the clerk then explained the resolution clearly to both candidates' representatives, to everyone's satisfaction. One man had voted absentee, and the Dep Clerk had not noticed that the return address was from a neighboring town. They realized that at the Board of Canvassers meeting, and the Clerk brought it up as an issue for us to discuss. They made phone calls and found out that the man had moved to a nursing home about a year and a half ago, but I'm sure still considered his old address in Oshkosh to be HIS HOME. The County Clerk checked that neighboring Town's poll list to make sure the man had not voted in both places. Since he hadn't, we all agreed that it was fine that his ballot had already been processed on election day for a state-wide race. No arguments, just clear discussions.


So, to make a LLLLllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggg day short, my advice, in addition to counting the K ballots as they're being examined, is to continue to BE NICE, BE NICE, BE NICE!!! We were in a conservative county, with a conservative clerk, and probably virtually all of the workers were conservative. When we first got there, there may have been a little chilliness, particularly as these pollworkers who have diligently worked elections for decades may have thought that THEIR work was being questioned. But as the day went on, we won them over, and we ended up having a good time. I made it a point to compliment the County Clerk and City Clerk and the pollworkers several times. It was not false praise - they asked a few times how we thought things were going, and we really were impressed with how well they worked through this process.

We have some questions about how their undervotes are documented, so my partner will be pursuing that today. But all in all, I'm very pleased with day one of the recount in Winnebago County. In the six wards that we completed (out of seventy-some), each side gained 2 votes, I believe. I would have wished for more K votes to be found, of course, but at least we can have confidence that the votes have been counted fairly.

One last thing - as we drove down from Oshkosh, I read someone's facebook callout for more volunteers in Madison, saying they'd work until 8:00pm. It was about 7:30 when we hit Madison, so we decided to stop by the CC bldg to see what their procedure was. They were just finishing up for the night when we got there, but we were able to talk to a couple of people and look at the room. They had a much nicer room, cushy chairs and lots more space than we had in Oshkosh. But the atmosphere was completely different. Part of that was due to the highly-paid attorneys who were sitting there for the Prosser camp - it all felt a lot more formal. A volunteer told me that one of the men wore a tag or button clearly indicating that he was from Americans for Prosperity!!! And the attorney sitting there all day was the brother of Jim Troupis, the lead attorney on the Prosser side. Jim's brother had flown in from Idaho for this recount. Judging by his suit and the fact that he is staying at a hotel, NOT with his brother, I'd guess that he's not a cheap hire, even with a family discount! They also had a court reporter there all day for the Prosser side.

So, despite the fact that it's a two-hour drive each way, and the working conditions are pretty sucky, I'm glad that I'm working in Oshkosh, just because I'm working with actual human beings!

I had to take today and tomorrow off because of appointments, so my partner is up there now, and he has called in for some reinforcements.

OK, this has gotten longer than I intended. Thanks for reading, if you made it this far! PLEASE volunteer for the recount effort. We really need people, and you don't need any experience to be able to be VERY helpful! Email KloppenburgVolunteer@gmail.com to volunteer!

THANK YOU! :patriot:
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:34 AM
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1. k&r - thanks for the update /nt
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:40 AM
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2. Thanks for your great contribution and for showing us that it's NOT a simple process.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed 100% with the "nice, nice, nice"
Here in Waukesha County, it certainly was. The Prosser and Kloppenburg reps were very polite and courteous to one another and the press has cameras set up all day waiting for someone to get shitty. It's also important to be nice to the tabulators and respectful to the Board. Prosser didn't have attorneys there but both campaigns had court reporters taking minutes.
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Greybnk48 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you for writing this!
I feel almost like I was there AND I feel comfortable with the way things are being done. My only image of a recount to date is that bug-eyed judge in Florida during the Gore election pretending that he couldn't see the mark on the ballet. Your account is much more assuring!
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the detailed report
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great reporting, LD! Here is a brief account of my experience at the Dane Co recount yesterday...
Edited on Thu Apr-28-11 10:06 AM by eowyn_of_rohan
The room was very crowded in the morning, with (too) many reps from both sides, plus general public observers, reporters and cameramen. We also felt tension in the air at first, between the camps, which tapered off during the day. The number of official observers tapered off too by late afternoon, which was a bit worrisome.

There was a good sized contingent of Prosser "suits", inc Troupis, all day. Most of the time they stood around and talked, texted, etc., too far from the table to see what was happening. There were some eager volunteers from his camp however, and from ours, too.

Being a first timer, as you know, I had somewhat expected that the recount steps would be done sequentially, as presented in the GAB and observer guides. But as in Oshkosh, there were several activities going on at once from the get-go. It was hard at first to find a spot at any of the tables close enough to see anything, and it was rather chaotic for us newbies. I decided the best thing for me to do was to approach it as a survey course, so spent a fair amount of time at each of the tables, to gain understanding of the different processes going on. That helped a lot.

I started out at the Reconciliation of Poll Lists table. One of the two (human) tabulators was counting in such a way that we couldn't see the documents to count along with her. I and a young man next to me asked if she might change her method. Her supervisor came over and agreed with us. Score 1. This was a very well organized reconcilation. The 2 tabulators counted identical stacks and if their totals differed, recounted. 4 or 5 observers were all writing down identical totals to report to the Kloppenburg (or Prosser) campaign. Seemed a bit redundant for me to be there ...

The most fun table was the one where they looked at irregular ballots, those that had been rejected by the machine or were set aside for other reasons. The clerk was in charge of that operation and she was very nice, and very well organized with a good sense of humor. It was interesting to see the crazy ways people filled out their ballots. This procedure was covered well by other observers, so there didn't seem to be much I could do there except be entertained.

By late morning I zeroed in on the ballot counting area as the place I could be most effective. I did NOT have a tally clicker (am picking one up today), but I watched closely as they divided the ballots by votes for each candidate. I noticed 3 instances of ballots being placed in the wrong stack. I notified the observer rep and the ballots were removed and put into the proper stack. Score 2!

I am going back to work again this afternoon and probably into the evening. I'm not nervous at all anymore, and am much more confident than I was yesterday morning! I did leave there yesterday with sore feet and an aching back from standing for so many hours.. Will try different shoes today.

I'll PM you about my next assignment which I am looking forward to!
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks, eo!
Sorry we missed you there when we stopped by. If you see this before going shopping, the clicker was $9.99 at Dick's sporting goods (in the baseball dept) and $10.99 at Office Depot. I might pick up one or two more for my next days at Oshkosh. If I get my stuff done today, maybe I'll try to run down in to Dane Co for a while later in the day.

Despite the fact that your room was a lot nicer, larger and cushier, I think it was easier for us to observe the process in Oshkosh. We could lean right over the workers, rather than trying to hover in between those fancy conference chairs. My back was shot, anyway, though, because I have a bad back to begin with. I actually found that using cheap reading glasses worked better than my prescription reading glasses, too. I didn't have to lean over quite as close in order to see the details of the ballot, depending on which table I was working. I think I might stop at Walgreens to pick up a couple more pairs of el cheapo reading glasses of different strengths, so I can more easily see dots at varying distances.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your next assignment, and glad that this is fun for you now, instead of stressful! :bounce:

Oh, and our most entertaining write-in was for "This is ridiculous!"
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm sorry I missed you!
OH! Another thing that happened yesterday is they goofed up and included ballots from the wrong wards in one of the precinct counts. They had to go and separate all the "wrong" ballots out of the pile then redo the count for the original group of wards...

I felt badly to leave but the bottom completely dropped out. I was Sooo tired and it hurt too much to stand anymore. Given everything, it was the right time to leave for me. Wish I were 10 years (or more) younger at times like this.

I am going to go for a few hours this aft., poss. into early evening. That's all I can do today given other things going on.

I am going right by an Office Depot so will check out the clickers. THANKS!
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Love hearing of your experience
And I'm also of the mind that all I want is that the vote is an honest one. I trust "the people."

Together, we have more wisdom than the single wisest person alone.
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