This is what I don't get about the 45 to 55 year olds

[rufus dog]

For full disclosure I am in that group.

So how are we supposed to accept the Ryan plan? I have paid into Medicare for close to thirty years and, under his plan, am expected to keep paying into it, yet I/We will get a coupon. So if I/We have a heart problem at 70 and have a 300 to 500k bill I/We either have to pay it or have insurance to cover it. So I/We will either have to pony up for a long term insurance policy at high costs within the next couple of years, or lose everything if we need an expensive medical procedure.

Am I missing something or is an entire age group getting fucked and being completely ignored in the discussion?


And yes every subsequent age group is getting fucked too, but shouldn't it be easy to make the case all the way down to 40 - 45 year olds that you have twenty years or less to prepare, but still have to pay the tax.

[demwing]

1. The only thing you're missing is the lube

Sorry to say it that way, I'm in the same boat...

[rufus dog]

4. We'll survive

But why the hell aren't people screaming about this. The Pukes claim they aren't messing with the 55 plus. Why isn't someone screaming from the rooftops, "Hey you 50 to 54 year olds, you need to come up with 10 to 20k per year with insurance payment to cover your ass!"

[shanti]

14. and another thing

where did this arbitrary 55 years old come from?? why not 56 or 54? this whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[russspeakeasy]

58. Because it's 10 years away and by that time, mr. ryan and his buddies

will have socked enough away, or made sure their collective
asses are covered.

[Epiphany4z]

18. because seniors vote

my guess is they vote and vote more heavily republican than the 55 and below group.

[Carni]

103. You got it!

Makes me sick--I have paid into the system for years, had health insurance that I paid for, for about 15 years because we owned a business.

Have been without health insurance now for 3 years because we are again self employed after working and paying for it via "employers" (who didn't pay all of our health insurance but paid part) Now we cannot afford to pay for it ourselves, so now essentially I am being told that if anything happens to me (if I live to even be of medicare age) I'm dead unless I have deep pockets.

But I have to watch commercials for medicare covered Post-T vac penis pumps and frickin little rascals on a regular basis for a group of people that apparently want to see me dead.

I've had it! They got theirs and screw everyone else!

[JDPriestly]

114. Actually, a lot of people on Medicare pay premiums for the Medicare

Advantage that are very high in proportion to their incomes. Medicare does not mean free medical care. Medicaid supplements the Medicare for very low-income people.

[Carni]

124. Well it's better than nothing

Which is more than what these old asshole Republican voters want to give me and people in my age group in the future!

[hootinholler]

36. Um, actually, no we won't

And it will be expensive.

Wasn't the whole point of medicare that seniors couldn't get insurance?

If this thing passes and isn't vetoed, I'm gonna stick my head someplace useful right before it explodes.

-Hoot

[TBF]

55. Capital will survive - Workers will die. Please be more clear in your terms. nt

[neoralme]

69. As long as the sole method of protest is waving flags or

contacting Bernie Sanders, they will do exactly what they want. With the oil price and gold increase today, they have Obama in checkmate for doing capitulating to the House to raise the debt ceiling. Our only hope now is that if they go further, the boomers will unpack the Vietnam stuff and hit the streets. I'm ready. Am already in the process of cleaning.

[The Backlash Cometh]

88. Those townhall meetings look pretty heated.

The Repubs are not selling it at all.

[SharonAnn]

97. But the real issue is, what insurance company would write policies for 55+?

Remember, the reason for Medicare was that insurance coverage was unavailable for nearly all people over 65. The small exception being some that had it through their retirement plan.

My father was a surgeon then, I was in high school and worked in his office for a couple of summers. Trust me, over 65 didn't have access to insurance. Not at any price.

[MH1]

101. same thing I'm wondering

of course I rarely listen to or watch news or talk shows any more. so maybe it is being discussed and I just don't know it? If not, it's insane, and just more evidence of how grotesquely skewed the media is.

[brightertomorrow]

107. The problem is some of us literally won't survive

That's the whole point they don't want us to or even care if we do. A huge problem is most people don't even pay attention to the news{and not exactly like the mainstream media spends a lot of time on it anyway} and bet the average person has no idea what the Ryan plan even is. That's one reason they get away with this stuff. Everyone needs to send it around in emails along with a link of all the congress critters who actually voted for it.

[JDPriestly]

116. Some of us won't survive. That is why I think that Medicare and Social

Security are our biggest national defense issues. A disintegrating social framework that pits young against old and makes life oppressive for the huge number of poor people in our country will make us very vulnerable to inner and outer military threats.

The political divisions in the country are already eating away at our national identity. Some prominent Texans have talked about secession in the not so distant past.

Our sophisticated military equipment will be useless if the American people are demoralized and unhealthy.

We need a strong social web if we are to stay one nation under the Constitution. Destroying Social Security and Medicare will destroy that national social web.

But then, the Kochs and their friends only care about their own survival. They don't really even care about the survival of our nation.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. You'll need a voucher for that, too.

Good luck.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Looks like they're trying to motivate us to vote

Because as it becomes widely known, they will be getting kicked out.

[Ken Burch]

3. We're meant to die off as quickly as possible when we turn 65

That's what it's really all about. Republicans want the retired, and the poor, and the sick, and(let's just come out and say it)the NON-Aryan, to go extinct.

[rufus dog]

5. agree

but that is a huge minority, so why not go on the offensive?

I know the Media is a huge problem, but what I can't figure out is why Dems aren't jumping all over this gap. "Hey you under 55!, the repubs are telling you to Fuck off and die!"

[Ken Burch]

12. Because, as always, our leaders are terrified of standing up and fighting.

They wouldn't even fight when we won a massive MANDATE in 2008. Even then, they acted like we had no right to actually have any power or govern on any of our values.

They're much more comfortable being the junior partners in a permanent center-right (or maybe center-right/far-right)coalition.

If they don't want to drive people to an alternative party, they're going about THAT particular objective in the worst possible way.

[Mimosa]

31. Ken, OTOH 'our leaders' might agree with the Rethugs: the old are useless eaters

The leaders indeed had a massive mandate for real change in 2008. The public was inclined to support expanded medicare for everybody. Our party wouldn't even talk about the cost benefits inherent to a single payer system. Americans pay far more more than anybody else in the developed world for health care, in most cases at least a third more, even double to the profiteers, but we are less covered, our general outcomes are worse, particularly for preventative care.

Some advertising and education about single payer as it works in Europe and Australia could have won over the doubters. But the Democratic party convened with their patrons in the big for profit insurance, pharma and hospital chains. Those are their sponsors, who give incumbants money to get re-elected, to stay on the government gravy train.

Haven't we all noticed how incumbents in the House and Senate are happy to stay in office all their lives? They appear to accomplish very little, since things in general are getting worse for the rest of us. :(

[Ken Burch]

44. God, you're probably right.

n/t.

[Prophet 451]

81. They'd just have lied about the European systems

Same way they lied about our (British) system.

[russspeakeasy]

61. The dems want to get re=elected, but to take a stand is just

too much to ask...

[SmileyRose]

89. That's not exactly accurate.

Not all the retired and sick are expected to go extinct. Retired sick white billionaires who drank, smoked and spent most of their adult life morbidly obese are entitled to get all the cutting edge medical care they want - even if it means buying a fake ticker.

The rest of us are expected to die chained to the machinery.

[Ken Burch]

108. I stand corrected:

The MAJORITY of us are expected to die off.

[SwampG8r]

115. why buy a fake

the market will flood with spare parts
them that has will get and them that dont has will die and provide for them

[winstars]

6. Fuck Ryan, I'm 53 and have paid in plenty...

These 'pug bastards are fucking with me personally. The OP is correct, anyone 45-55 will really get screwed!!! As of course would everyone,,,

[flamingdem]

52. They achieved visceral hatred over this

now we need to let the meme die about that cut off date before it becomes something a DINO would "compromise on" god forbid.

This has to get bulldozed under and if it doesn't I'm moving to France!

[neoralme]

73. It will be time for you to hit the street. They cannot fight all of

us with the military all over the world, the police and fireman now pissed for union busting, and people as well armed as they are. The corporatists are staging this oil price increase to force Obama's hand with entitlements. And now some Democrats are joining the Republicans.

[pnwmom]

7. It's outrageous. You shouldn't accept it.

I barely met the cut-off, but none of my siblings did. This is completely unfair and I think most people, whatever their ages, agree.

[dkf]

8. Medicare costs will skyrocket before we reach the age we can get it.

Our only hope for managable health care costs is single payer.

[eridani]

10. +100 n/t

[sendero]

19. The 800lb gorilla..

... that everyone and I mean EVERYONE ignores. We will never control health care costs in the current "I name my price and you pay it" system.

[russspeakeasy]

63. Thanks sendero...perfect quote.

[eridani]

9. Yes. You are getting fucked, which is why you should be raising holy hell

--with any congresscritter who voted for that abortion of a bill.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

38. raise hell yes... abortion of a bill? no....

Abortion saves lives--the lives of living women, and their future-- so I wouldn't call it an "abortion" of a bill

I know, being picky here. Not picking at you eridani, but I thought it was an important point....

rather than all of us just screaming here, we need to make these points in a call or letter to our reps or even just copy and send this thread to them!!

OR, even easier, find a petition...Care2 has lots of them and they also report on petition successes; encouraging!

GET ACTIVE.

[eridani]

39. That's OK--I have plenty of Grammar Nazi moments myself

In this climate, anything that demonized abortion, however indirectly, is a no-go.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

49. :D

heee hee...oh I didn't even realize I was being a Grammar Nazi!!

Nor was I aware that I was being a Rappy Rhetorititian





Hope that didn't overshadow the fact that I totally agreed with you!

[Yooperman]

11. I turn 55 in September... I just hope this thing is kicked

down the road for a few months or years... preferably in the dumpster.

I am so frikken pissed at the repugs it actually hurts. TAX the super wealthy... it isn't that hard to understand.

Good Luck

YM

[handmade34]

77. won't pass

and Pres. Obama would veto it...

[Yooperman]

117. True... that does make me feel a bit better...

It's just that is so obvious what we should be doing it is sickening. Cut the military... tax the rich... period.

Peace

YM

:toast:

[SheilaT]

13. I think what they're counting on is that

very many people younger than 55 simply can't imagine being old enough to retire, to be on Medicare and Social Security.

I'm 62, and I can't tell you how often, when I was in my twenties, people my age would say things like, Social Security won't be around when I'm that old. Or: I'll be dead before then anyway.

It's very difficult for most people to really be able to imagine themselves more than ten years in the future, and I do think that's what they're counting on.

[Sherman A1]

15. Agreed

They are hoping that no one notices. I am past the 55 year age myself and this whole cut SS & Medicare thing for those behind me is absolutely absurd.

[sendero]

20. They know..

... that if they screw with current/near retirees they will pay a heavy political price. Indeed, many seniors see the writing on the wall and are raising a fuss already. They know that the 55 limit is just a "for now" plan, that they're next.

I see some heartening signs that people are starting to tire of the Republican's "fuck everyone except the rich" policies that are more and more in your face every day. We can hope.

[CrispyQ]

76. I think they tried to get an age where the most number of voters would be the least pissed off &

I think they missed it by at least 10 years. In other words, it's not going to be just the people close to 55 who are going to be pissed, the 45-50 group is pissed too. Our legislators & the elite are so out of touch that they have no clue how much & for how long, people have been counting on ss/medicare.

[seabeyond]

21. ya... once you hit 45, a person starts thinking about it hard. and agree with op. nt

[DCKit]

16. K&R

[mmonk]

17. My message from the older end of that spectrum:

I don't plan to accept it. The fact I am gettting older and my health insurance is too high and its deductable growing and much of my holdings were hit hard from the financial collapse caused by deregulation, I will fight any politician and any political party that is promoting the Ryan plan and any Ryan plan lite. I will fight it until the last gasp.

[Brigid]

22. I'll be 53 in less than a month.

Yes, we are getting bent over. Big time. A "coopin?" A freaking "coopin" is going to cover a senior's health care costs? A "coopin?" Are you kidding me? Isn't that a Ron White joke? Only this one isn't funny.

[TheKentuckian]

23. I'm not even there yet but I have been paying in for about 25 years now

25 is not a minor thing. It is longer than it takes to retire from the military and the same as a cop.

Time to prepare is meaningless when you can't afford insurance now, will require a fair wind at my back to afford use it in 2014 when the Wealth Care and Profit Protection Act goes into effect, my entire working life spent in the era of high unemployment and shrinking wages, and most importantly because nothing is being done to control medical costs.

Time to prepare what? Our minds for the golden years to turn plastic and then ash? In thirty years only the very well off or maybe it will take being among the rich to be able to afford senior care from the insurance cartel with or without a coupon.

The younger you are the scarier this should be because a kid just out of high school will get no value at all from the crappy coupon and will have 40, 50, or so years of absurd medical inflation, coupled with a lifetime obligation to bleed out for the cartel, and probably even less wages. No way the kids have a shot at all.

[Vinca]

24. It's just a new twist on the Republican health care plan as described by Alan Grayson.

[Jim__]

25. Private, for profit, insurance will never cover sick people - of any age.

We know whatever laws K-Street writes for us, health insurance companies will have an out. We know this because we've already lived it. Any solution to our health-care problems has to involve getting private, for profit, insurance companies out of the way. All Americans should know this; and we should all demand that this be done.

[Brigid]

26. +1000

Too bad we can't rec a post.

[NNN0LHI]

35. Actually it can happen. I have seen it

My employer is self insured and hires Blue Cross just to process the claims.

Admittedly very few employers would offer this out of the good of their heart.

Usually takes a union contract and a threat of a strike to realize something like this.

But it certainly does occur.

Don

[DefenseLawyer]

72. You haven't seen it.

An employer that self insures is not the same thing as a for-profit insurance company.

[NNN0LHI]

123. I said my employer uses a for-profit insurance company to process the claims

The for-profit insurance company then processes(approves or denies coverage), those claims according to the contract my union negotiates.

Blue Cross doesn't process these claims for free. They charge my employer a percentage for the claims they process.

Don

[DefenseLawyer]

125. Processing claims isn't the same thing as paying claims

I'm sure they charge him a processing fee, but he pays the claims, thus he is "self insured". But you think whatever you want if it makes you feel better.

[NNN0LHI]

128. That must make Medicare a for profit insurance company too then

Because Blue Cross is who processes the claims for Medicare here in Illinois too.

You keep on believing whatever you want pal.

Don

[DefenseLawyer]

130. I'm glad we're pals, but you are lost.

Why would the fact that Blue Cross processes medicare claims make medicare a "for profit insurance company", which it's not, any more than Blue Cross processing your self insured employers claims make your employer a "for profit insurance company"? It wouldn't, which is what I said in the first place. In both cases the "insurance company" is using its administrative apparatus to determine claims but in both circumstances the payout doesn't come from Blue Cross's pocket. That may have been the original point but it's been so long ago I'm now on medicare myself, so it's a moot point. Congratulations on your insurance.

[SharonAnn]

98. Once you're over 65, what then?

[NNN0LHI]

122. Then Medicare will become my primary insurance and Blue Cross becomes secondary

The result stays the same.

Don

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. Because it's perceived to be light years away.

Most younger folks lack the perception to see how close they are to that time. It's a difficult thing to wrap your arms around.

Even at age 58-59 I couldn't really grasp how close I was to 60, and retirement.

[undeterred]

29. Paul Ryan is 42 and he will have a government pension and lots of $$$$

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. He and his ilk are so detached from the real world

they'll never have a worry in their lifetimes.

That goes for both parties.

[Kat45]

46. Bingo!

That's why they never do anything that helps most people. They're in a different world.

[Amonester]

79. Yep. To paraphrase Mike Malloy:

"THEY DON'T WORK FOR YOU!"

[deutsey]

32. Well, I seem to remember our age group was mostly Reaganite back in the day

I know I was certainly in a small minority of people my age who opposed Reagan.

Let's hope the koolaid has worn off and maybe people are waking up now that they're heading into their later years...

[rufus dog]

40. Check out Lydia's post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x986729

Not in the 1980 election, in '84 those of us in College did switch as a group.

I was at a Springsteen concert on campus the day after the 80 election. Remember him saying something to the fact that this is a really bad move that hurt us all.

[Carni]

104. I'm 47 and opposed Raygun and Bush 1 with every fiber of my being

Beginning in HIGHSCHOOL before I could even vote.

[deutsey]

121. Same here, but I was in the minority where I lived

Most of my peers supported Reagan or were apathetic.

[Odin2005]

33. My mom is in that group

It seems like that age group has always been the oldest one that has been screwed over for the last 30 years.

[alstephenson]

71. And it is you that may end up paying for your mom's healthcare.

The R's talk all day about the deficit and leaving debt to our children. Who do they think will be paying for the health care that these seniors will need? It will be their children. You can't let mom or dad just die! Young people don't realize that the safety net for seniors also protects them.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Ryan's plan for Ryan is drawing a large tax payer funded

pension with full benefits which will be available to him at age 50, if I am not mistake about his length of 'service'. So Paul Ryan has a plan for Paul Ryan that involves the American people paying his way for the bulk of his adult life.

[Javaman]

37. the ryan plan is nothing but an opportunity for the repukes to

raid a gigantic political slush fund. Much like they have been doing for years, but it will instead they won't have to put in IOU's anymore.

[WinkyDink]

41. You're supposed to complain about the Baby Boomers.

[rufus dog]

66. Too funny!

Growing up I wasn't one of them, now I think they take it down to people born after 1960 so I am included. A bit strange cut off, those of us that were pre teens when the Viet Nam War ended really don't have the same experiences as those who were getting draft cards or being shipped off.

That being said, I don't have an issue with any specific group. The boomer's had the big divide among themselves, which those of us on the back end never got as involved in. So the GWB versus Kerry or Clinton type war fights wasn't as emotional for us. We weren't fighting with dick heads like GW in college, we just had the young Repubs/Reagan fans but there wasn't a major issue to fight over other than their lame assed, upturned collar, Polo shirts.

[WinkyDink]

127. The cultural divide was HUGE at my college 67-71! I mean, even that "Naked John & Yoko" RStone cover

showed that chasm in student reactions.

[Jim Lane]

42. Most of us over-55's will be standing with you.

This "divide and conquer" tactic will fail.

I described the House action to one of you 50-to-54's who's not very political and who hadn't heard about it before. She was outraged. I think it's the first time in her life she's written a letter to her Congressman.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressoid]

45. +1

[Aerows]

47. K&R

Frankly, anyone that has paid into Medicare should be pissed at Ryan's plan.

[titaniumsalute]

48. Yup

I'm 36 and want to stop paying into Medicare so I can save money for my own health care. Fuck Ryan and his minions.

[alstephenson]

74. That's what they want you to want.

Don't fall for it!

[flamingdem]

50. The repukes are attempting to divide and conquer, they think

that we're a small enough cohort that we won't be heard in all the din of the older boomers who have theirs for sure, and the younger ones who are pissed that they'll never see a dime so why not take us down with them.

However we're on to it and we can as a group block this unless people FAIL TO VOTE as they did in 2010

[in_cog_ni_to]

51. Survival of the Fittest? Soylent Green?

I think their grand plan is to lower the population by letting everyone DIE. What else could it be?

[Amonester]

82. What is the secret of Soylent Green?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVpN312hYgU





(Soylent Green is people; poor people, actually; poor disposable people.... Exactly what the paul ryan's of the reptilican party and their bent-over 'friends' on the other side are actively working for since the silly reagan revolution began.)

[in_cog_ni_to]

96. Yes indeed!

It's obvious what they're doing. They really don't care if people die. They couldn't care less.

[MadMaddie]

53. I am 45 and I call it "Theft"!

No doubt in my mind.

The answer is we don't accept his Plan and we fight it tooth and nail. If we don't stop this, the next thing they will do is go into our bank accounts and take money without our approval.

[TBF]

56. With ya. nt

[BobbyBoring]

54. The Ryan plan screws everyone in one way or another

The 55 cut off is just another wedge. The PTB aren't satisfied with dividing the country by left or right. They want it divided by age, sex, race, cat people, dog people, etc.

Divide and conquer~

[Capitalocracy]

60. Not everyone...

just 90% of everyone...

[Juche]

57. I would look into retiring overseas

In all honesty that is all that is left in this country it seems. With medical inflation growing so rapidly and our economic/medical/financial system being so plutocratic the idea of retirement with dignity and security will disappear. I am becoming too pessimistic to think it'll get better in any meaningful way.

At least in developing nations you can get good health care and a good standard of living for $1500/month. For now at least. I've looked into it and although the cost of living really isn't a lot less than living in the sticks in the US, the health care is far more reliable and affordable.

Plans for those with pre-existing conditions in their 50s cost about 1500/month or more via state public plans. And those are subsidized plans. Someone 70+ will require 30k or more for insurance I am sure. That 8-15k voucher won't even begin to cover it.

[Capitalocracy]

59. For paying into Medicare during a lifetime of hard work...

here's your 0.1% off coupon! Congratulations!

[JohnnyRingo]

62. Ryan miscalculated

I believe he thought, or he was told, that if he set that cut off age the seniors on SS would be just as greedy as the plan's architects and say "screw it, it won't affect me". What they didn't count on was that those people have baby booming kids and Gen-X grandkids who will have to rely on Social Security. Those working class seniors didn't didn't bust their asses all their lives at the steel mills and car plants to see their loved ones hung out to dry.

I'm sure the Republicans are shocked to see people show concern for others.

[Gman]

64. Uhhh... I think the answer is supposed to be we all have to make sacrifices

and we don't have the money or some kind of BS like that. Pure BS.

[Exilednight]

65. I'd go further than that and say anyone under the age of 35 is screwed. It would take the average

person a good 30 years to make plans for their future health care. By age 35, the average person has more than likely paid into Medicare for roughly 15 years.

[abelenkpe]

67. Under 45 but still have paid for a long time

and no it's not OK. His plan better not pass. If it does we need to demand single payer. Otherwise we're all screwed.

[wryter2000]

68. I'm in the "safe" group -- 62

And we're not going to settle for this any more than young people were willing to dump social security when Bush tried to push it through in 2005.

[brightertomorrow]

109. I wonder if there is any "safe" age group

If they ever got their foot in the door with this plan they would likely find ways to raise deductibles and cost sharing for those already on medicare too.

[rufus dog]

111. You are correct

The solution is always to cut programs and tax less on the upper levels so they "can create jobs."

Friedman always blamed Countries for not cutting enough when his policies failed.

Last week there was a guy from the Heritige Foundation who when questioned why Bush tax cuts didn't create any jobs responded with "We didn't cut enough!"

[ProfessionalLeftist]

70. Yep....We are getting royally

screwed. I'm in that age group as well.

[cameozalaznick]

75. Guys, relax...

This will never pass the senate. Even if it did, the president has already used the v word. But just in case, do call your representative, no matter if they're D or R and let them know how you feel. And get your kids, friends, etc. to do the same. Make it your FB status for a while.

[Tom1960]

78. I've been thinking about this for some time...

Actually, I think the end game is to setup the system so that we all die paupers... That is to say, you will have to lose everything in order to extend your life a little longer. I don't think you are missing anything but seriously, I don't think there will be any insurance to cover us if Ryan's plan passes, (I'm also in that group, age 51).
Remember what Grayson said about the Republican Health Care plan? Don't get sick and if you do die quickly. For the last two years I have quietly confided to my friends that this is a massive scheme to redistribute wealth back upward.

We will lose it all, and really, and so will everyone else 40 - 45 years and younger. Who can possibly save for the kinds of illnesses that can wipe a families savings and wealth out in an instant?

[sofa king]

80. This is a political football. It's not going to pass.

What's going on here is the Republicans have really stepped in it. Against every shred of better judgement, the Republican-controlled House passed the bill, and now every Republican Senator is crapping his pants because it did.

The bill won't pass there in the Senate--we control the Senate and not a single Democrat will vote for it. So it's dead.

But even if it does pass in the Senate, the bill still won't pass into law because President Obama will veto it. So it's double-dead.

The veto can only be overridden by a 2/3 majority vote in both houses of Congress, which ain't gonna happen. So it's triple-dead.

When you have that rock-solid advantage, and your a$$hole opposition insists on floating garbage like this, the astute thing to do is make the bastards vote on it. So that's just what Harry Reid is doing, to make sure Republican Senators are also on the record for wanting to kill Medicare.

It's political suicide for the Republicans up for reelection to vote for it, so they won't, which will alienate them from their base--the evil corporate donors who want this to happen. Only about 10 are up for reelection in 2012, so it's important that we target every one of them. Hitting them in the wallet is an excellent place to start.

It's also highly damaging for the other Republican Senators to vote for it, but they might in hopes that people will forget, which will give Democratic hopefuls in their state a gold-standard point to rip them on, because voted to KILL MEDICARE makes for a great attack-ad snippet. And that will still be useful against some of these Republicans all the way out to 2016.

In the meantime, the same attack can and will be used against every vulnerable Republican in the House in 2012. And with the Presidential election already in the bag thanks to a monumentally incompetent spread of opponents, the President gets to go to every up-for-grabs House district he wants to, rip the Republican Senators from that state on this, and tar the Republican House candidate in that district with the Medicare brush whether he or she voted for it or not. Thus President Obama gets to campaign powerfully for at least three candidates at the same time, on one stupid issue that never should have been considered in the first place.

This time next year, you'll see the exact same thing happen with an early extension of tax cuts for the rich, with the same result, and the Republicans will pay for that politically, too. Same with a dozen other stupid issues that evil people want and reasonable people don't want, thus clearly defining the hot-button issues about 70-30 in favor of the Dems. All thanks to those chumps in the Tea Party. We'll be wanting to send them thank-you letters for this two years hence.

This populist approach is an absolute necessity for the Democrats because, if you failed to notice, Democrats do not win elections that are close enough to steal. So the victory has to be overwhelming and complete. And that's just what we're building: an overwhelming and complete victory.

Edit: 10 (R) seats up for reelection in the Senate, not 17. My bad.

[Amonester]

84. "It's political suicide for the Republicans" (not so fast, sofa king)

How they call that.... yeah, cynically, "CITIZENS UNITED" .... Hello-oh-wo?

And they 'still' control thousands and thousands of ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES.....

Although I hope you're right, let me be the scared skeptic we should all be......

[sofa king]

90. By all means, be skeptical and scared!

You should be. But you should also be aware that the Democratic leadership really does appear to have a plan, and it's an excellent one because it constantly uses the base nature of the Republicans against themselves.

The Republicans are, right now, in the process of voting themselves out of office, and they will continue to do so as long as the greed of their benefactors controls their actions, which will not change.

I am as cynical as they come, but President Obama's and Senator Reid's clever maneuverings give me lots of hope. Strange how the cynical legislative analyst is the only one left with any hope around here!

[winstars]

100. We better win in 2012 or we are...

really screwed as a nation and as discussed here in this thread, individually... Yeah, it won't pass THIS Senate, but what about the next one. Yeah, THIS president will veto the Ryan BS but what if these fucks somehow WIN in 2012??? Middle class people, the so called Reagan Dems, and anyone not independently wealthy enough to pay for their own retirement better do the right thing next year or we are in the shit...

[jerseyjack]

83. But its also people under 45.

SINGLE PAYER !!!

Medicare, Part E(veryone)

[Taverner]

85. I'm 40 and I ask your same question

WTF?

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Divide and conquer and you know what, IT IS NOT WORKING

[The Backlash Cometh]

87. Yes, we're notch babies.

So can we now finally break away from the baby boomer tag since many of us were too young to relate to all the benefits of that era?

[AC_Mem]

91. I just turned 53

And I am outraged that the argument is that "oh well, if you are 55 or older nothing changes".

I have multiple medical issues that may affect me as I advance in years. With the other outside issues that can cause problems in later life (US diet, pollution, etc) the odds of us being immune to any number of age-related disorders is pretty low unfortunately.

The fact that Ryan is trying to peddle this awful bill while he is young and never has to worry about it affecting HIM, is outrageous. The congressmen have built in protections - they won't have to worry about this bill affecting them either.

Why do republicans hate Americans? And how do they sleep at night or look at themselves in the mirror?

The karma they are creating is pretty amazing.

Annette

[FourScore]

92. Needs to be said far and wide and at every town hall meeting! n/t

[tpsbmam]

93. I decided this morning that I was so angry about that possibility we should levy

a mass class action lawsuit against the government, Ryan, any politician who votes for this shit, and on and on....for all of the monies that have been paid in and the government would be essentially stealing. A theft of this kind would warrant a lawsuit anywhere else. I don't give a shit if it's "done" or not or will "win" or not -- 20 million people suing the government is a fucking start.

:grr:

[tavalon]

94. We're not supposed to accept it. It is unacceptable.

[tavalon]

95. I sleep days

Did something new happen with that stupid ass bill while I was sleeping?

[MH1]

99. Any 40-55 yr old who votes for anyone who supports Ryan's plan

is a fucking idiot.

What I can't figure out is how Ryan et sl expect to get this one by us.

[Motown_Johnny]

102. this plan was created with voter demographics in mind

and the (R)s are betting they can still win if they keep the votes of people 55 and over.

They don't expect us to accept it.

[kestrel91316]

105. I'm 54, so I am among those with the least time to prepare for my

royal effing.

[unkachuck]

106. K&R....n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

110. With Medicare pricing gone, $20K a year won't come close to purchasing a policy when you hit 65....:

I have seen people in their early 60's who could purchase nothing cheaper than high deductible, catastrophic plans ($20,000 deductible per person) for a premium of $22,400 for 2 people (400% higher than the premium for a 50-55 year old for the same policy).


If the GOP succeeds and destroys Medicare and the Medicare pricing system, premiums for those now 55 will be out of sight when they hit 65-70. If a yearly voucher purchases more than a MONTH of private insurance for a 65 year old, it won't do that once that person hits their 70's.

[Bennyboy]

112. I'm 55 and who cares?

I got mine you know and if this is gonna help me save money then to hell with everyone else.

:Set sarcasm meter to ten please:

[JDPriestly]

113. Thank you. And remember, your parents aren't going to get the full

value of their Social Security and Medicare, so that means that you will not only pay the regressive Social Security and Medicare tax for nearly worthless vouchers, but you will have to either cough up the money to pay a portion of your parents' medical bills and daily expenses or just let them die.

Medicare and Social Security are more vital to the security of the US and the American people than is our military strength. Because without Social Security and Medicare, there is no way to support a good portion of our population. An impoverished nation is vulnerable to military attack. We need universal Medicare right now.

Meanwhile, back on the Koch ranch . . . .

[Ruffhowse]

118. I'm not too worried here--at 54

I have increasing confidence that this attack on Medicare and SS is going nowhere. Ryan's plan will never get past the Senate or Obama. Any compromise will reflect the growing vocal protests of Americans and if a compromise is ever reached I expect it to be much, much different than Ryan's plan. We just need to continue to speak out, especially at these town hall meetings, and the republicons will turn tail and crawl back under their rocks.

[ArcticFox]

119. Another wedge issue is now created

Add Old vs. Young to Black vs. White, Immigrant vs. Worker, Jobless vs. Worker, Poor vs. Poorer. This divide and conquer strategy has been keeping us commoners down for centuries.

You seem to have bought into it, with your plea to slide the scale to include yourself in the protected group.

Please think again. As long as we let ourselves be divided like this, we'll never have a chance of making a better world.

There is more than enough money in this world to take care of every one of us. It's in the hands of a relatively few people who own most everything.

We just need to learn to come together and pry it from their greedy hands.

[rufus dog]

120. Not the intent

My take is everyone is going to get screwed.

The point is that the Repubs keep saying it won't do anything to you if you are over 55. Dems should be shouting them down that it screws everyone else and push repubs on how a 54 year old will be able to come up with the shortfall in one decade.

[hansberrym]

126. I agree with your assesment except for the tense, the screwing over is not something that has just

started, it has been going on for a long time, and it is only getting worse, with or without Ryan's plan. Congress is not your friend, it fancies itself your master.

I have also paid into the pot the last 30 years, but it seems a tad more than an "expectation" that I pay, in fact it was and still is coerced payment under threat of penalty, however there is no legal obligation of repayment on the government's part, and so we the people have been reduced to servitude.

And it is worse the younger workers:
Those born after 1970 will very likely get a negative rate of return on their SS payments, unless there is a strong econmic expansion over the next 2 decades. Think about it, pay in your entire life and get a negative return, and I am not talking about merely an individual's rate of return, but that of a whole generation and the one that follows. The nature of insurance is that some individuals pay more into it than they get out and others get out more than they pay in. But the way SS is headed, those born after 1970 (fund will pay something like 78 cents on the dollar starting in 2037, which is when those born in 1970 will turn 67) are getting the royal screw. In fact they are getting screwed worse than us 50 somethings, so don't rock the boat, they just might stop paying, and then you and I are really screwed.



The Remancipation Proclamation:

Economic Decision-Making Is an Activity Subject to Congress’s Commerce Clause Power

[boston bean]

129. I started working at age 13. pretty sure they were collecting SS in my pay stub.

that would mean I have paid in 30 years already and they want to steal it and more!

fuck them