Al Franken should be out of the Senate: Why does DU defend him?

[Casprings]

By my count, he has six independent women providing accounts in which he did actions ranging from touching to unwanted kisses. The women range from Democratic congressional staffer to a conservative media personality.

Why are we defending him? Serving in the Senate is a privilege, not a right. Moreover, it isn't like we are losing a vote here. A democrat will replace him. We need to be on the RIGHT side of history and police our side.

Franken's actions are not the same as others. Others have certainly done worse. But someone who keeps on touching women shouldn't be in the US Senate. Lets believe allegations that are credible and act.

Beyond the moral argument and being on the right side of history, it is good politics. He will be replaced by a dem and that dem has a much better chance of winning in 2020. His approval rating went from the 50s to the 30s in MN. Moreover, rumor in DC is that the NYT or WP is working on a story that will name 30 to 40 congressman. If we are on the right side, this will end up helping us.

[sfwriter]

1. Can you name all six?

[Casprings]

7. Some didn't want their names used..

Should we believe them less? Just asking?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049

The former staffer said she ducked to avoid Franken’s lips. As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”

“He was between me and the door, and he was coming at me to kiss me. It was very quick, and I think my brain had to work really hard to be like ‘Wait, what is happening?’ But I knew whatever was happening was not right, and I ducked,” the former aide said in an interview. “I was really startled by it, and I just sort of booked it towards the door, and he said, ‘It’s my right as an entertainer.’”

[Shrike47]

34. Yes, we should not believe them at all. The entertainer story is really suspect.

Anonymous claims are worthless.

[sfwriter]

50. Then there is this...

To counter that anonymous staffer:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/11/17/former-franken-female-staffers-speak-out-he-treated-us-with-the-utmost-respect/?utm_term=.8321e3e5a5ac

Or this about Tweeden's station:

[link:http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/360921-la-radio-station-we-tipped-off-news-partners-before-publishing|http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/360921-la-radio-station-we-tipped-off-news-partners-before-publishing
]

And, it will be interesting to see if the accusations stop now, after all, Franken is still a public figure, author and entertainer. In most of the other cases, the women have come forward, on the record and in rapid succession, building in numbers even after the figure leaves their current engagement, not at the curiously weekly schedule of Franken's accusers.

If they go silent now, that will be suspicious. I wish we had had the chance for them to testify to a committee and commit their accusations to a formal record, even if anonymous, they would have carried more weight. He'll eventually tell his side of Tweeden's tale, which he challenges. Maybe these other women will come forward then.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

55. There is always reason to doubt anonymous claims.

There is something in this story that just doesn't ring true. And if it really happened she should be willing to give her name.

[Bengus81]

89. Uh...when an ACCUSER posts a pic like this and cries GROPER!!...I say BULLSHIT

Wondering if you notice since his announced resignation there hasn't been any other accusers?? Do you find that strange? Actually no one should,it was a HATCHET job from the get-go and SUDDEN 2020 Pres hopeful "Gilly" did the dirty work for Republicans.


Franken GROPING this poor woman!!

[Freethinker65]

2. Deja vu

[Skittles]

3. are you a one-trick pony???

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. Third time you've posted this

[hlthe2b]

80. I gather the other two times were hidden? It infuriates me that DUers allow this kind of thing

where the intent is pretty clear.

[marble falls]

5. Reminds me of this:

Link to tweet

[Casprings]

8. The biggest threat to dems is not standing up for women because its our guy

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Quite the little contrarian, aren't we?

[Control-Z]

9. Why do you keep posting this garbage? eom

[Casprings]

11. Because I am looking for a rationale defense of him and I want to have that discussion in the bounds

of forum rules

[shraby]

17. He wanted an ethics investigation and was railroaded before he got it. That was wrong.

Smacks of McCarthyism which leaves a bad taste in my mouth not to mention on how it doesn't square with my mind.

[Casprings]

19. He lost support of his own caucus when the SIXTH woman came out..

who also happened to be a former congressional staffer. I think others were willing to wait, but after that many women, at some point the right thing for him is to go.

Again, he isn't going to Jail. He is leaving the Senate.

[JimGinPA]

54. I Don't Believe That's What You're Looking For At All...

I think you're just here to cause trouble.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. BTW, what's this "we" stuff?

[Skittles]

28. he and his comrades

[orleans]

12. maybe the ethics committee should just close up shop

since dem senators can't be bothered waiting for the committee to investigate (even at the request of the accused)

GUILTY!

MOB JUSTICE IS A LOT FASTER THAN REAL JUSTICE!!!!

here, hold my tiki torch

[Casprings]

16. Being in the Senate is a privilege

No one is putting him in jail. The question is, do you believe six stories from six different women and, if you do, should he remain in the Senate? Should a person who forcible touches people be in the Senate?

[orleans]

24. oh god! "forcible touches people"...give me a fucking break

[Casprings]

31. What do you call this?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049


The former staffer said she ducked to avoid Franken’s lips. As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”

“He was between me and the door, and he was coming at me to kiss me. It was very quick, and I think my brain had to work really hard to be like ‘Wait, what is happening?’ But I knew whatever was happening was not right, and I ducked,” the former aide said in an interview. “I was really startled by it, and I just sort of booked it towards the door, and he said, ‘It’s my right as an entertainer.’

[orleans]

47. I THINK HE DIDN'T FUCKING KISS HER

AND I THINK SHE'S A FUCKING LIAR because i do NOT believe he said any such shit to her about his right as an "entertainer"

he was a comedian and a comedy writer and a half assed actor
but when air america came on he was pretty fucking serious about that job and i highly doubt he considered himself an "entertainer" -- he hosted a political radio show

that bogus quote piggybacks on the leeann tweeden crap where they were doing a uso show and "entertaining" the troops.

during his time on air america he was a pretty serious guy.

you ever bother listening to his radio show? (no, i didn't think so)

[Shrike47]

49. We have not heard six stories from six women. 2nd hand hearsay is worthless.

[Buzz cook]

62. Being in the Senate is not a privilege.

It would only be a privilege if Senators were appointed. Instead it is a duty, and a responsibility, because they are there only through the sufferance of the electorate.

Privilege is granted it is unearned. Being elected, with some exceptions, is earned.

[PragmaticDem]

13. I thought you did this tread already?

As for the Franken saga I will not apologize for loving the man. I admit I have my doubts about some of the accusers and admitting I don't necessarily believe he's innocent.

It is heartbreaking!

[dalton99a]

14. Senators are pretty fungible - I always just do a hot swap

Besides, for Democrats, they simply can't be in the Senate without being 100.00% pure - as certified by Hannity, Stone & Co.

[Casprings]

15. So you think these six events did not occur or do you think that even if they did, it is okay?

[shraby]

18. We'll never know now, will we?

[Casprings]

21. No, I am fully willing to believe the women

He isn't going to Jail. He just won't be in the Senate and will be replaced by a liberal woman (hopefully).

[wellst0nev0ter]

58. Instead of keeping the Senate seat until 2020

There will be a special election next year



Also, you and your kind just set a dangerous precedent. Anonymous claims without going through due process are now enough to scalp elected officials.

[Gabi Hayes]

23. Which do you prefer:

Percorso or

Severyanin?

[sheshe2]

39. Why are you not accusing this man?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-running-list-of-the-women-whove-accused-donald-trump-of-sexual-misconduct_us_57ffae1fe4b0162c043a7212

A Running List Of The Women Who’ve Accused Donald Trump Of Sexual Misconduct

On Oct. 8, 2016, The Washington Post published footage from 2005 of serial misogynist Donald Trump bragging that as a famous man, he can get away with anything. Like kissing women without waiting for permission. And grabbing women by the pussy. Trump has defended these comments, repeatedly, as “locker room talk.” When pressed by Anderson Cooper during the second presidential debate, he said that he absolutely had not sexually assaulted women.

But since Trump’s remarks emerged ― and well before then ― women have shared their allegations of sexual abuse against the Republican presidential nominee.

Trump and his administration have repeatedly denied all of the accusations, most recently tweeting that women he didn’t know were making “false accusations.” In October 2017, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders suggested that all of Trump’s accusers were lying.

Below is a working list of women who have accused him of sexual misconduct. These allegations span more than three decades, from the early 1980s to 2013, and are presented here based on the date they became public.

............................



All named. Why are you posting over and over about Franken and not tRump.

[Botany]

20. Как погода в Ст Петерсбург теперь

[Casprings]

25. Yes, because a person that believe that a Senator who touches women shouldn't be in the Senate..

Is clearly posting from Moscow. Through that does look pretty sweet to visit. I think Moscow is pretty expensive through.

[Botany]

30. ваша английская язык очень плох

Yes, because a person that believe that a Senator who touches women shouldn't be in the Senate ...

[lostnfound]

59. Such a pretty picture for so much ugliness. Nt

[uponit7771]

61. +1

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. But someone who keeps on touching women shouldn't be in the US Senate.

So one needs to be celibate or a gay male to be in the Senate?

[Casprings]

26. Unwanted or without consent touching nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

40. Because most of us believe the accusations to be bullshit

Largely due to the fact that Roger Stone a former Nixon dirty trickster tweeted prior to the first accusation that Franken was in trouble.

Remember what happened to Acorn or Shirley Sherrod? They were both falsely accused it turned out. Yet Acorn lost its funding and Sherrod was fired from her job.

We'll never know the truth about Franken. The point is if we keep eating our own before learning the facts who will be next?

He's out. Isn't that good enough for you or do you want to keep beating that dead horse

[sheshe2]

43. One name.

pResident Dotard.

[orleans]

27. ...

[standingtall]

29. Your not look for a rationale defense of Franken

your looking to chastise people for not agreeing with you. No I don't believe his accusers. The first 3 accusers were all republicans then when we finally got an accusers who were not republicans they were all anonymous almost as if they were manufactured to satisfy an objection. Then we finally get one that wasn't a republican go public and her complaint was he put his hand around her waist during a photo-op. Several of these accusations were during photo-ops in front of huge crowds of people and not one person has came forward to claim to have witnessed what Franken was accused of.

[standingtall]

41. No one said anyone deserved anything

I am saying it didn't happen and it absolutely is a partisan issue. Newsflash republicans make shit up and manufacture controversy to take down democrats. The fact is the 1st 3 accusers were all republicans and not even normal republicans, but a right wing radio personality and her friends with connections to Roger Stone.

[Casprings]

45. And the Congressional Staffer who said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049

The former staffer said she ducked to avoid Franken’s lips. As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”

“He was between me and the door, and he was coming at me to kiss me. It was very quick, and I think my brain had to work really hard to be like ‘Wait, what is happening?’ But I knew whatever was happening was not right, and I ducked,” the former aide said in an interview. “I was really startled by it, and I just sort of booked it towards the door, and he said, ‘It’s my right as an entertainer.’”

Usually, people do this in a pattern. How many more women would you want to hear from before you change your mind? Just curious.

[standingtall]

53. Would not matter to me if there were a million accusers

if there isn't credible evidence to support their claims I will not believe it. That former staffer is also an anonymous accuser.Anonymous accusers have no credibility. I don't believe for one second this happened anyway nor do I believe Franken said "it's my right as an entertainer" please that's a paraphrase of the Trump access Hollywood tape.

[quickesst]

65. Prove to me...

.... that this woman even exists. "It's my right as an entertainer." If you believe these words came out of Al franken's mouth, then it's no wonder people are f****** laughing at you, and it is absolutely laughable. He hasn't been an entertainer in quite a few years, so it would lend more credence to this "unknown, maybe real or not" person if she had claimed he said , "it's my right as a senator." And just in case you don't understand what I'm saying, here are a few visuals.

[MustLoveBeagles]

32. Your persistent I'll give you that

I had a lengthily response to your second posting of this. When I went to hit send Poof! that thread was gone. I don't feel like retyping all that again so I'll keep it brief. I think what happened to Al Franken was shitty. I think far too many Democrats kneecapped him before all the facts were in. It's perfectly okay for you to disagree with that and express that view in this forum.

I'm a newbie when it comes to posting on this board and I'm still learning the ropes. Even without consulting the TOS I'm pretty certain that you spamming the board over and over again with the same post violates the rules. I won't alert on you but I suspect others here won't be so kind.

[RealityChik]

35. 3rd time posting? Might you be a "flamethrower"?

Given the wide support of Senator Franken on DU, posting an adversarial remark without any informed logic to back it up makes your post read like something a troll would post.

My impression is that you might be spoilin' for a flame war. It's also not clear to me that you are as fully informed on the subject as you need to be. If you want to disrupt the good will consensus of DU members with incendiary remarks about a person of high regard, you better darn well have a good reason for doing it.

I, for one, am not seeing it. This is my opinion only. I don't speak for the others. I just don't like my heroes trashed without a logical reason for doing it and from an informed point of view.

[Casprings]

38. Informed logic?

What is not informed about my logic? I am aware of each case against Franken.

[Ferrets are Cool]

36. Really? Really? I can't say what I really want to say.

[GReedDiamond]

37. This bullshit has already been removed...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10008724

Go away, troll.

[Casprings]

42. Because I mentioned a pervious jury ruling in the post..

I edited that out to be within forum rules.

[GReedDiamond]

46. uh huh...

...it's still bullshit.

[sarcasmo]

44. Roger Stone, that's why. Comrade.

[doc03]

48. It was a hit job cooked up by the right wing media and egged on by a few Democrats

wanting to get him out of the way so they can run in 2020. We lost a great Senator because some people thought they could
score political points next year.

[Historic NY]

51. HOW COME it all went silent suddenly no nothing?

Wake the fuck up we've been played.

[Blue_Tires]

52. Why are we even discussing Franken? His decision is made

Why aren't you asking for Trump's ouster?

[Vogon_Glory]

83. Because We're Ambitious And Want A Two-Fer

We not only want Trump (and ideally Pence, too) taken down, but we also want the people who did the hit on Al Franken exposed and discredited.

[Demonaut]

57. I've done stupid things at times, sexist in it's content now...years ago

And I've protected women from overt unwanted attention too.

I didn't understand the depth of what I had done but I grew and I learned, I was a younger adult at the time.

I have felt the pain and embarrassment when I remember the past, and I often do.

I am not that person now.

nor is Al Franken.

but destroy him and his legacy, I guess that's just.

[Buzz cook]

60. I don't defend Franken I defend due process

Everyone involved, Franken, his accusers, but especially the voters of Minnesota, deserve to have their complaints aired and defended in a formal public setting.

This is most true for the people of Minnesota because this amounts to over turning a public election, the will of the people has to be respected.

The thing that bothers me most is that the democrats demanding Franken's resignation, only asked that Moore go through an ethics investigation.

[NBachers]

63. Hey Casprings- I don't agree with you; don't agree with you at all. Nor do I support you.

[LuckyCharms]

64. Because it was a hit job. Plain and simple. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

66. Because many of us don't believe any of his accusers

I know several men and a woman who were all falsely accused of sexual misconduct and I didn't believe any of the allegations against them either.

Just because the rest of you have spent the last decade painting yourselves into a corner doesn't mean the rest of us have to believe every vaguely sexual allegation.

[Hekate]

67. Again with this crap? Go away.

[Duppers]

68. Can any well-read person be this ignorant? Or...

Are you trolling?

[MFM008]

69. I don't believe them

Period.
it was a set up.
Stone/ Bannon set these people up to come out each week with an alleged tale of woe.
Notice not one more has come forward since Franken said he was going to resign? Not one.

[betsuni]

72. This is the best comment.

[betsuni]

71. I'm touched by your effort to do actions to independently make Al Franken look worser.

Heh: "six independent women" and "he did actions" and he "should be out of the Senate" and "But someone who keeps on touching women shouldn't be in the U.S. Senate"

[tavernier]

73. I think you need a bigger spoon

to stir that enormous pot.

[rzemanfl]

85. A canoe paddle will make it easier. How the pot rose from the grave is a puzzle. n/t

[Joe941]

74. Again?

[GaryCnf]

75. Even if every accusation were the "Gospel Truth"

(save the obvious BS about groping Tweeden while she was asleep)

There is STILL zero reason why Franken should have stepped down.

There is plenty of reason for us to reject the notion that every man who inflicts even the slightest indignity against a woman is disqualified from holding office as a Democrat. We are becoming caricatures, not models.

[Itchinjim]

76. Ignore.

Goodbye.

[CrispyQ]

77. The moral high ground isn't worth squat when they have their boot on your neck.

Zero tolerance policies are never good. Every case should be evaluated independently. Also, if someone's accusations are going to ruin the career and reputation of another person, the accuser should be do so publicly, not anonymously.

I'm sure the replacement for Franken will vote dem, but will she be the bulldog Franken is? Doubtful, as there are not a lot of bulldogs in Congress. We can use every damned bulldog we have & we just kicked one of our best to the curb. We are in the fight for our country! If Trump & his ogres win, all women in this country will suffer. The dems lost site of this with their zero tolerance policy.

When they go low, we go high, & now they have their boot on our neck. The dems need to get in the ring, throw dirt in the opponents eyes, & draw some fucking blood, or we're going to lose our country.

[Tipperary]

78. No. He should not be out.

I wonder why you think so?

[Locrian]

79. do you really think you're helping the cause with this?

Because a lot of us think you're doing a lot of damage

[left-of-center2012]

81. "Innocent until proven guilty"

He requested an investigation
but got 'tarred & feathered' and run out of 'town'.

I think it was part of a GOP/Russian plot to silence a strong anti-Trump voice.

[Vogon_Glory]

82. Franken's Ouster And Suspicious Minds

I'm one of many DU readers and posters who thought that Al Franken was forced out by a right-wing hit job. I find the links between Franken's visible accusers and right-wing media and far-right political organs--interesting--to say the least. Add to that, the deafening silence of Franklin's accusers since he announced his resignation and my suspicion ratchets up another level.


I do not believe soon-to-be-former Senator Franken was imitating the hands-on behavior of former President George H.W. Bush, another politician accused of mashing. Add to that that his first accuser did two photo shoots for Playboy magazine and was videotaped doing a bump-and-grind routine at the USO show where Al Franken's fingers allegedly went walking where they shouldn't, and my suspicion ratchets up even further.

Add to that the quiet of his accusers since he announced his resignation. Are the right-wing propaganda organs so cheap or honorable (OK, folks, you can stop laughing now) that they'd forgo a chance to further trash Franken's reputation with interviews and talk show airtime? I don't think so. I would have thought if that Franken's accusers were for real, they'd be out there and public--just like Paula Jones.


My suspicions aside, I believe it was foolish in the extreme for the Democratic leadership to demand Franken's resignation without an investigation or hearings. These are NOT normal times with honorable men and women from the other party and the political movement that controls it behaving with honor, truth, and integrity. As Messrs. O'Keefe, Stone, and others have demonstrated, Democratic and liberal politicians can be laid low by political dirty tricks and hit jobs. That those on the progressive left and the Democratic Party can ignore such possibilities demonstrates an incredible amount of naivete and inexperience at best, and delusional credulence at worst.


Believing as I do that a suspicious mind is necessary for these times, I have to wonder about Newbie posters demanding further nails in Senator Franken's political coffin. Might such posters be radical feminists in high dudgeon and righteously demanding that (alleged) behaviors like Senator Franken's be punished? Perhaps. I can also believe that such posters might also be affiliated with the right-wing hit team that took down Al and whose bosses fear that his career hasn't been as ruined as they'd hoped when they pushed Tweeden forward on the chessboard.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. It would be best for everybody involved to move on than to continuously litigate it.

This issue is a winner for us.

[Lint Head]

86. Was rubbing her butt on a man done with permission?

She hosts a right-wing talk show. Something's fishy about this whole thing.

[Vogon_Glory]

88. Naughty, Naughty For Posting That Video Clip

Ivory-tower ideologues HATE having their constructs of how they believe things ought to be, uh, “rubbed” against inconvenient evidence to the contrary.

[riverwalker]

87. Republicans assume everyone will lump allegations

all together without examine validity of each one. When you do, some are ridiculous, some may be credible, some are laughable. In the case of Tweeden, who started the whole hysteria, it may be criminal. There is enough objective fact based evidence that amateurs have found, that she lied, I can only imagine what a professional private investigator could find. If I were Al I would haul her into court and clear my name.

[delisen]

90. Drop the privilege bs. Senate is not a private club.

One gains admission to the Senate by the votes of the people. The democratic senators who pressured Franken to resign without due process, substituted their will for that of the voters of Minnesota.

It was a shameful, foolish act and Senator Lynch, member of the Judiciary Committee has already announced his regret of his rush to judgement, and it is true that as a member of th Judiciary Committee he knew better than to join the stampede.

[workinclasszero]

91. When is Trump resigning for his 19 or so sexual assaults?

The 19 Women Who Accused President Trump of Sexual Misconduct
The "Weinstein effect" continues to roil the nation’s power centers. But the allegations against the president have largely stayed in the background. MATT FORD DEC 7, 2017

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/what-about-the-19-women-who-accused-trump/547724/

You seem to have no problem with Trump staying in office while democratic people are accused, lynched and driven out of office without a hearing or trial.

What exactly is the reason for that?