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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is why we can't have nice things - LL Bean changing its return policy
Can't say I blame them one bit.
The outdoor specialty retailer said returns of items that have been destroyed or rendered useless, including some purchased at thrift stores or retrieved from trash bins, have doubled in the past five years, surpassing the annual revenue from the companys famous boot.
The numbers are staggering, CEO Steve Smith told The Associated Press. Its not sustainable from a business perspective. Its not reasonable. And its not fair to our customers.
https://www.boston.com/news/business/2018/02/09/ll-bean-return-policy-change
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,300 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 9, 2018, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
But instead, it was my bad decision, and I eat the cost. A cost I absorbed years earlier.
Some of the items were 3-4 years old. A few were over 5 years old and one was over a decade old.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)This is a universal rule that applies across every culture and every period of history. Human beings are simultaneously remarkably noble and pathetically ignoble in equal measure.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Zoonart
(11,959 posts)I stopped buying from them years ago as their corporate giving includes forced birthers.
Or maybe it is just because of a general lack of respect for everything.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)Zoonart
(11,959 posts)It was true at the time...80's 90's. I guess I can hold a grudge.
still_one
(92,617 posts)to modify it because people were abusing it
spooky3
(34,589 posts)unblock
(52,626 posts)ok, sure, it's not reasonable, and it's not market standard, so i can't really blame them, especially if the numbers are in fact as they suggest (which wouldn't surprise me).
but "it's not fair to our customers" as an excuse to curtail a policy that only benefits the customers?
come on, that's a really lame effort to spin something that didn't really need to be spin.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)$3 goes to cover unreasonable or fraudulent returns, you are harmed.
unblock
(52,626 posts)they're not charging you cost plus a modest profit.
they're charging a price based on maximizing profit
that price point is not much influenced by product returns.
in short, product returns go almost entirely straight to a company's bottom line.
shareholders pay, not the customers.
in rare cases, there may be some specific products that are profitable without a generous return policy but not profitable with.
in those cases, canceling the generous return policy might allow the company to sell a product that they couldn't sell otherwise.
that would be a marginal benefit to customers.
but for the products they're already selling, no, they're not likely to lower prices, at least not as a function of modifying their return policy.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)The more costs that businesses incur from losing $ to fraud, shoplifting, employee theft, as well as materials, labor costs, etc., the lower the profit margins, everything else being equal. This is a cost they can control and reduce without reducing employee pay or the quality of goods sold. So it is very smart of them to have tracked unacceptable increases in returns to find a way to be more efficient, enabling them to compete.
unblock
(52,626 posts)the more specialization, customization, or differentiation, branding, or market power there is, the easier it is to separate optimal pricing from costs.
if you figure they are pricing as low as costs allow given a reasonable profit, then yes, lowering costs could lead to lower prices.
i have a more jaundiced view as to how well our economy conforms to properly competitive capitalist models and expect them to keep prices where they are and send the savings to the shareholders (and the executives) rather than to the customers in an effort to increase market share.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)What is your evidence of that?
unblock
(52,626 posts)to not have to always be pushing to be the lowest cost player, which in fact doesn't seem to be their strategy just from looking at their prices.
they're a big player with a fair amount of loyalty in their customer base.
wholesale clothing is very competitive. retail for outdoor clothing less so, particularly for brand name stuff.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)whether they can control the markets and prices.
They can't.
It also does not matter whether the company is "pushing to be the lowest cost player." This is about margins, not about costs alone, and market concentration.
Customers can find products like LL Bean's in many places. Lands' End is one of MANY online competitors, and customers can buy jeans at many brick and mortar stores.
Sorry, but you have the burden of proving that they are not in a competitive market--you need citations with evidence to convince me.
unblock
(52,626 posts)we'll see if they lower their prices.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)A returned item is no different than a stolen one on the cost the the merchant.
Both drive up costs.
unblock
(52,626 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And it is incorrect. At the end of the day you are arguing that raising cost on retailers does not push up cost to consumers. LLBeans very actions defy your theory. The are having to reduce cost so they can keep their prices down to allow them to compete with their competition.
unblock
(52,626 posts)for instance, i would hope we could agree that if apple could shave $10 off the cost of an iphone on way or another, they're not particularly likely to shave $10 off the price of an iphone.
the extra market share they could gain from cutting the price by $10 would not come close to justifying the loss of $10 profit per customer, especially given the brand loyalty in that market. the big per unit profit margin is a big clue.
on the other hand, a pure commodity like copper or aluminum is vastly more a function of cost. cut costs by a penny and the price is likely to come down by nearly that much because to a large extent, price is the only thing to compete on.
the question in this case is where does llbean fall in this spectrum. i'd say somewhere in the middle. they're certainly not in apple's enviable position, but then who else is. but they're not a pure commodity either. so in theory there could a a basis for a split, with some benefit going to shareholders and some benefit going to consumers as a partial price reduction. but in practice this is too small a factor and i really don't think they'll cut prices at all over this.
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)to cover the loses resulting from the old policy. Makes perfect sense. Now to see if the change Has any effect on prices.
unblock
(52,626 posts)in theory, in perfectly competitive markets, there's some truth to that.
in practice, though, not so much.
LisaM
(27,889 posts)I worked in a returns department for a while and the crap people tried to pull still upsets me. And they were mean about it. The less of a case they had, the more blustery they were.
It's a cost to the business, and yes, it does get passed on to honest customers.
ProfessorGAC
(65,670 posts)People abused the system and forced them to do something. Like the consumer advocate says in the article, one year with proof of purchase is still pretty generous. If it takes somebody more than a year to decide they didn't like something, it raises reasonable suspicion as to their motives.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)thick trusting head.
former9thward
(32,259 posts)30 days at the most and with a receipt.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Historic NY
(37,472 posts)and don't take advantage of the generousness of the business.
madaboutharry
(40,252 posts)It would never even enter my mind to do something like that.
I have been a L.L. Bean customer for a long time. The only thing I have ever returned to them was a pair of pants that I didn't like the way they looked and a few months ago I exchanged a hiking boot that came with a bent lace hook. They sent a new pair right away.
You are right, Henry Krinkle, it is always a small number of people who ruin things for everyone else.
spooky3
(34,589 posts)Beyond immediately after the sale due to color, size, etc. was a pair of jeans described as preshrunk but which shrank more than 1.5 inches despite only cold water washing. They still sell items like this (really wish they wouldnt call them preshrunk) so customers simply have to size up. (I buy tall and another size higher despite being 56.)
MontanaMama
(23,379 posts)They have a very liberal return policy and they're my favorite outdoor clothing retailer. They treat their employees well I hear. Yes, a few bad apples spoil everything. Jerks.