A lot of people are in denial about the Mueller investigation.

[shockey80]

I really don't know how to describe it. It's so fucked up. People know its happening. They know its serious. People have been indicted, pleaded guilty and are spilling their guts out. Mueller is not fucking around. He is the real deal. A lot of people are going to prison.

Trump, his voters, republicans in congress, act like the inevitable will not happen. It's going to happen and they will look like fools. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[madaboutharry]

1. Fox News is what is wrong with them.

They turn on the television and listen to Fox and Friends and Sean Hannity and all the other clinically insane people on that network and they give them the same credibility that Americans once gave Walter Cronkite. They have been brainwashed by right wing hate media.

[Enoki33]

12. Exactly. Fox feeds their cognitive dissonance and if they believe it, it

must be true. Rough landing ahead for them.

[uponit7771]

26. +1

[certainot]

31. artificial intelligence makes it possible to destroy rw radio and it's little brother, fox

it is now possible to get an hour of talk radio transcribed for $5/hr - it's fast and cheap with a company like sonix.ai

that means advertisers on Trump/NRA talk radio can be directly associated, in print, with the hate lies and ignorance that makes fox possible.

advertisers and the agencies that use radio need to know, the sooner the better.

once talk radio is democratized fox will disappear.

[Hortensis]

44. Don't know what that last line means, but the technical

advances and how they can be used against advertisers is interesting.

Regarding Fox, it was created to fill a market void and was a great success. Ailes filled it by asking viewers what they wanted to be told and then feeding them just that. Of course, it quickly became a malignant force. But a way of saying, I don't think fake news audiences aren't going anywhere except to whoever will feed the great appetite they've developed.

Think we need a new, expanded fairness doctrine -- as a start. Network evening news has become nothing but a delivery system for commercials, with the little bits of "news" styled to maximize viewership.

[certainot]

45. fox depends heavily on rw radio to do the repetition

it's the visual icing on talk radio's lie turd pie. talk radio is the key to this disaster - it's the only major medium with no political counterpart. fix it first and everything else will be a lot easier.

unfortunately even supermajorities may not be able to pass an new fairness doctrine. americans have to destroy the monopoly and the rest of the media will follow. media reregulation will be possible.

AI makes it possible to destroy the monopoly now, by making talk radio readable. who's going to want to advertise on it except trumpers?

[Hortensis]

47. Agree that'll hurt advertisers, and thus RW radio.

But, we have to take into account the fabulously wealthy donor classes behind what's happened to the right. Planetary wealth quadrupled over the last 30+ years, and most of it went to create new fortunes counted in the hundreds of millions and billions. Archconservative activists among them can buy 300 radio stations (if allowed!) and run them all at a loss if necessary.

We also have to take into account that their tens of millions of listeners hear everything -- and like it. These are people, not ponies. They wouldn't stand around chewing grass while we took away the radio content they want. They'd march righteously to the polls, supported by others who are outraged by interference in their freedoms, and vote new governments in.

But what is likely possible from this sounds very interesting. For sure I agree that media regulation is necessary to the degree possible. A half hour every day on every appropriate media channel, including cable and radio stations, of honest, commercial-free news and information meant to inform citizens would be a great start. There is literally nothing like that on any main outlet now, and I don't believe that's all due to profit-seeking.

[certainot]

48. money has always been there - that's what democracy is for and that's what

tax policy and regulation are for.

talk radio is not in any way related to market demand for what the ignorant rw racist liars are saying. they bought 1500 stations and have been using them to create popular acceptance and support for their deregulation and attacks on democracy and the only reason it worked was because it was ignored by liberals/democrats/ the left.

in most parts of the country there are no free easy alternatives for politics and they said anything they wanted as much as they wanted and we ignored it like fucking idiots.

there is no way for mom and pop to compete with wall mart and it comes down to not giving it a free speech free ride any more.

it's really tragic it came down to artificial intelligence to save us. advertisers and ad agencies have to start getting the message what they're sponsoring on those radio stations can now be directly associated with them.

[Hortensis]

49. Your "ignorant rw racist liars" are the largest bloc

of dependably voting citizens in the country. Aka "the people." Whatever we are able to do has to have the approval of a solid majority of the people, including some of them, or at best it'd be temporary.

Have a nice Monday, certainot.

[certainot]

50. you too!

[flibbitygiblets]

41. #2-#4 cable shows in US are Hannity, Carlson and I think Ingrahm (sp?)

Rachael is #1. Lawrence, Hayes and Matthews are in the top 10. Explains a lot.

[hlthe2b]

2. three words: THEY WATCH FOX

[RKP5637]

15. Rupert Murdoch's agenda should be investigated. IMO it's more than just about money!

He is the minister of propaganda!

[RKP5637]

3. Ultimate brainwashing over the years. They think they totally own the country and are invincible!

... either unconsciously or consciously.

[Hortensis]

4. I've noticed also. Many people are missing this period

of history, living as if they are in a parallel universe where it's nothing more than the trashy left-wing swiftboating they need to believe it is.

[Hoyt]

5. The prize is tying trump to all this sufficiently to make people take notice, including Congress.

Don't know if that will happen, but hope so. If not, hope Kush, Ivanka and the boys go down.

Inditing a bunch of Ruskies, Manafort, Flynn, etc., is better than nothing, but not serious enough.

[CrispyQ]

51. I think the prize is destroying the GOP brand.

It's not enough to take down Trump. McConnell/Ryan/Pence & the worst of the GOP reps/senators/governors, all need to be exposed for the corrupt, self-serving assholes they are. People have to be embarrassed to admit they were ever republicans. Polls for the entire GOP should be under 15%, but we still have elections where a race between a pedophile & a democrat was close. WTF America.

[Hoyt]

53. How many GOPers have you seen actually say, "I will never vote for the GOP again" or anything close.

I don't see any evidence of that. Not even sure it would happen if trump is indicted or impeached.

[CrispyQ]

54. That was my point.

The entire brand needs to be destroyed, not just Trump. GOP approval ratings–nationwide–need to be in the 12% range, or we'll be back here again. There needs to be such a house cleaning that even Limbaugh/Fox can't spin it.

[Hoyt]

55. I would love to see it, but don't think this will make it happen. Now if trump came out and meant

and said, I will no longer tolerate racists, gun-strokers, greedy fools, xenophobes, homophobes, invading innocent countries, bullying the world, bashing programs for the poor, etc., the GOPers would be decimated. Otherwise, they will continue to be fat and happy.

[Cary]

6. It's not difficult

The people whom you refer to are cult followers. Wait and see, they will have constructed an elaborate right wing conspiracy theory to dismiss #fakepresident's indictment.

[WyattKansas]

7. FUX NEWZ keeps telling them that there is nothing ever found.

So they don't believe any of it. That or they are planning an overthrow when the shit really hits the fan and they can't stay in their FUX NEWZ mode. Maybe FUX NEWZ will tell them that Mueller is actually a communistic mole sent to overthrow the U.S. Government and Vlad is the only one that can save us now with Donnie Frumpass' help.

[barbtries]

8. it's a cult of personality.

republicans in congress are either compromised by russia or too greedy to care. fox news feeds these people. remember 2012? people who watched fox news really believed that romney was going to win despite all evidence to the contrary.

this is how the holocaust came about. i'm not saying that we will have that, just that people who are enthralled and part of trump's cult are that disconnected from reality and they have lost any moral compass they may have once possessed.

[Mr. Ected]

9. After listening to non-stop hate from their own pundits

American "conservatives" think that this is simply politics at play, with the Democrats doing the same thing that Republicans did because the GOP is now the majority party.

They don't understand that the hate for Obama and Hillary was manufactured while the reporting from the media regarding Trump and the Republicans is honest and fact-based.

In other words, their own media has propounded lies so they assume our media does the same.

Wow. Are they in for a big surprise.

[milestogo]

10. A lot of people don't pay attention to politics.

Its hard for most of us on DU to imagine. I feel like I am so tuned in its almost intolerable. But I do know people who do not listen to news at all - either because its such a downer or they don't really care.

They don't realize how much it affects them.

[Pepsidog]

13. Exactly!!

[7wo7rees]

11. Maybe they know something you don't

Like: getting away with murder happens all the time.
Like: the cop who beat up the homeless guy on video who gets exonerated even after his victim gets paid $50,000

Mueller can show you proof Trump is guilty of fraud, treason, and money laundering, just to name a few, and if no one wants to put the 71-year-old behind bars, then Trump walks.

Then who do you report it to?

[Rorey]

33. That's my concern

And if 45 walks, his supporters will say that it was just a "witch hunt" all along.

[7962]

38. And thats likely what will happen; trump walks while everyone else falls.

Therefore, trump was innocent all along, and was mislead by the law breakers. Poor fellow

[Lil Missy]

14. Fox Snooze.

[former9thward]

16. And a lot of people are projecting their own views on the investigation.

People who say "they are spilling their guts out" as if they are inside the investigation and in the know about what is going on. No one except those who are members of the team know exactly what is going on. And they aren't posting on the internet...

[gibraltar72]

17. We only know

exactly what Mueller wants Trump and his cronies to know. I don't believe Mueller leaks anything unless he thinks it moves investigation forward. Lots has been reported, and that's great journalism. But I'd bet only 20% of what Mueller knows is public at this point.

[Hortensis]

43. Yes. I wouldn't begin to quantify, but journalists say

nothing "leaks" from Mueller's team. Investigative journalism has had almost a rebirth, but it's amusing each they get all excited on learning about something that occurred months before. They're amazed they didn't somehow find out.

I've suspected that deliberate covert releases and announcements are also used as weapons to knock back Republican attacks and/or to create a more secure position to defend. Announcing criminal indictments against those 13 Russians informed the nation that Russian crimes against our nation had been established, both moving the investigation to a new stage and defeating a major attacdk. This came when Republicans, Fox, RW media, etc., had launched a major offensive designed to convince people the FBI was corruption and the investigation was phony and needed to be shut down.

[Dopers_Greed]

18. They're just trying to grab what they can

Before it all comes crumbling down.

[Pluvious]

19. Psychologists call it "confirmation bias"

Humans put more belief and acceptance into information which matches their own ideology, and less towards that which doesn't.

[C Moon]

20. We're living through some epic history right now, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the news.

[Richard D]

21. I'm sorry . . . but . . .

1. I look forward to them looking like fools.

2. No matter what happens they will remain in denial and blame the "liberal conspiracy"

3. They will still blame Obama and Clinton.

4. It will not bring peace or reconciliation. Far from it.

[Tatiana]

22. Good. Let them.

And when all their idols have plead guilty and are in jail, maybe... just maybe... they'll take a look at themselves and ask how did they get it so wrong.

[OverBurn]

23. I hope your're right, I still feel like Trump is made of teflon and nothing will happen to him.

[lark]

24. They think they have skewed the picture so badly they get away with it.

drumpf is refusing to stop their hacking and in fact has aided and abetted it by closing all offices in the federal government that protect the election integrity so that russia can continue to effect the voting so that it shows rw'ers win,, when they absolutely don't. They think they can steal our way of life, our government, for themselves, their rich donors and russian fascists and since they stole the SCOTUS there are no controls on their treachery. Russia doesn't care about special elections, so we win, come 11/18 they will care plenty and will steal the election AGAIN, unless
1- our election systems are hardened and made hack proof prior to 11/18 - which probably won't happen
2- the Blue Wave overpowers the russian rw efforts - better chances but still very slim.

Our only hope at all #GOTV #BLUEWAVE

[louis-t]

25. Can you imagine what the screaming will be like?

I had a nutcase client the other day (disabled vet) who now refuses to work with me because I insulted him by saying Robert Mueller's investigation will determine if Russia interfered in our elections. "THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!11!!" was his response. "And who's Robert Mueller!!!" I said "Robert Mueller is a decorated Vietnam veteran who prosecuted John Gotti and took down some members of the Gambino crime family. He was also involved in the Lockerbie bombing prosecutions. He had started the conversation with "Everyone in the FBI should be fired! "This guy listens to rush and hannity all day, so you know where that came from. Of course, the first place he went after I responded was "Yaah but Hillary" and then he got personal. He called my broker to complain. Called me a radical and demanded I apologize to him. Said he was going to report me to the authorities.

[elmac]

27. whats wrong with them Iss called a fox news lobotomy

and it cannot be reversed.

[DownriverDem]

28. Can't reach them

We all know folks who you just can't reach no matter what you say or show them. They seem to be in the 35% range. trump's numbers do move up a little, but then seem to come back towards 35%. Then many repubs in DC have bought into trump & enable him. The rest of the repubs seem frozen to do anything. Those leaving office have given up it seems. Because of trump's unpredictability (economy/trade/war), I hope Mueller moves soon.

[ThoughtCriminal]

29. They heard that the Nunes Memo debunked everything

and it's all Deep State conspiracies.

Even after Trump is gone, we will have to live with these imbeciles.

[Moostache]

30. I knew all of this about the GOP back in 2002...

When they made an issue of fucking flag lapel pins and said things like "why do liberals hate America?"

They were full of the shit then (long, long, long BEFORE then in reality), and they are the same fuckwad today.
It is not a joke to say if Nixon had Ryan and McConnell and Fox, he would NEVER have resigned...

[LiberalLovinLug]

32. It is done on purpose.

Fox and other RW media, are not simply questioning the facts, they are downright living in an alternate universe, taking their viewers/listeners along with them into their Unpleasantville. Where, besides lambasting all Democrats, liberals, progressives, students, immigrants on the Left, they also pretend that there is nothing to see here folks in regards to behavior of the Right. That it is all a witch hunt and they have nothing. (Even as you point out, indictments have already taken place!). That it is all concocted up by lefties and will eventually peter out. They are setting up a reaction from their listeners when (hopefully) Trump is finally indicted. To them, it will seem like it came out of the blue (Democrat blue). That Dems and the 'deep state' and George Soros swept in in an early morning raid on their savior and messiah....without cause or proof, or reason other than to stop Trump from making America great again.

I am afraid of the reaction. Imagine what you'd do a year into Obama's Presidency, if in your mind, you believed that Obama was a decent, honorable, President. Which we all did. (Because it was true) Then with Dems lacking any majority, the Repubs after yet another wasted tax dollar investigation, say on the so-called Fast and Furious alleged wrongdoing, suddenly one morning indicted Obama for treasonous behaviour, out of the blue and led him away in handcuffs. Maybe along with Pelosi and Schumer.

Because that is how many are being conditioned and set up for . And what I fear is that Fox News and other RW media might just go 'all in', and even start to help coordinate and rally the next civil war. And there will literally be zombified crowds with torches surrounding the holding area for Trump storming the gates to free him.

[Ligyron]

42. Naw, I don't think so.

There may be a few incidents here and there but they will be put down w force. Pence wants to be Pres anyway and a lot of the GOP hate Trump, know he's a problem and would rather see him outta here with a year or two of Pence to "normalize" things.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

34. You answered your own question

They don't merely look like fools. They ARE fools. Cretins. Troglodytes, and asshats.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. RepubliCONMEN in so deep their only hope is a Hail Mary Pass to propagandize it out of existence. nt

[PaulX2]

36. Facts Don't Matter

To Trump culters.

[7962]

37. If Trump is not indicted, they claim victory and vindication.

Regardless of who else goes down

[Oldtimeralso]

39. MAGA has a new meaing

More
Are
Getting
Arrested

[sprinkleeninow]

40. Their brain make-up has been altered to the current state from

all the twisted lies and fabrications from hate radio and media. What would one expect?

[VOX]

46. They have been spoon-fed a dangerous parallel reality where they see themselves under siege.

Even when they hold all the marbles (Executive branch, Senate, Congress, SCOTUS, + 32 states top-to-bottom), they fight as if they’re cornered. For them, each new day means another pitched battle against rational thought, measurable reality, scientific thought, peer-reviewed data, and documented facts, both current and historical.

Their enemies are the perfect bogeymen: they don’t exist, but they function as go-to magical-hate objects: a fever-dream “Deep State,” run by Obama and George Soros, and Hillary Clinton, who (in their false narrative) is the worst criminal ever to walk the planet. This toxic false stew is pushed daily for hours on end without a single word of opposition, via the usual mechanisms: hate radio, dedicated “state TV” on Fox Entertainment, and on sites like the Mercer-funded Breitbart.

It’s tantamount to a cult: #45 is a misunderstood genius, firebrand patriot and persecuted savior. They finally have a voice, which claims that THEY are under attack and in trouble, but NOT by their own corruption, incompetence or some complicated Russian malfeasance. Their paranoia, fear and rage has been deftly redirected onto their political enemies, who they wish to harass and blame long after they’ve retired from public service.

As time passes, the country’s division is cut sharper, wider and deeper. There truly are two Americas now, each with its own politically-based reality, attitude, perception, tastes and media/product consumption.

[maxsolomon]

52. I thought this post was about DU at first

You think "people are going to jail"? Trump's not going to jail. No one's going to jail. They'll pay fines, get probation. IOKIYAR.

I still put Trump >50% to be re-elected by the low-information, abortion-obsessed, spiteful cretins that make up the middle-aged and elderly white populations of America. People like your parents and siblings.

Mueller could well come back with a report saying that Trump didn't know shit about any of this because he's a dumb motherfucker who was kept in the dark: by his campaign, and by his employees who gleefully took laundered Russian money for their real estate deals.

Get ready to be disappointed by nibbles around the edges.

[Awsi Dooger]

57. Trump is much more likely to be re-elected than impeached or forced out

I agree with you that he is >50% likelihood to be re-elected.

Big picture factors and focus dominate. Incumbents whose party have been in power only one term receive surreal benefit of a doubt when they seek re-election. There is no reason to believe that won't apply again in 2020. We'll have to get very lucky to defeat him. Trump will have to sustain implosion to mid 2017 levels, with a 40ish approval rating or below. But that is certainly an underdog. The longer he is in office the more his style and personality will be accepted as the norm. Shock and disgust factor will diminish. We are in exponentially better shape toward 2018 than 2020.

The denial is indeed on sites like this. I agree with the ideology but there's no chance I am going to succumb to the daily obsession with details. That type of thinking leads to nothing but opinions and decisions. Every day you are absorbing something new and linking it to something else. And that's the worst place you can be when attempting to project the future. Rachel Maddow utilizes that method exclusively. She wouldn't begin to understand any other approach. That's why I have very little respect for her, other than as a story teller.

In my 25 years in the Las Vegas sportsbook scene the people who had absolutely no chance were the ones who watched every game and formed dozens of opinions, subject to fluctuation every minute. Everything was fluid. The people who fared well, on the other hand, relied on a handful of foundational variables and merely applied them where proper. The number of variables and decisions was sliced by 90% if not more.

I like H20 Man's posts but again he is the type who believes in details. Yesterday he wrote a long thread about how he follows the news every day. That approach may allow someone to be very well informed across the board but in terms of how Mueller will fare or how Trump will be impacted it unfortunately is the worst possible reliance.

[maxsolomon]

58. I thought that H2O man OP was brilliant, but the preamble was overlong.

Degenerate is exactly the correct term.

I simply wish DUers didn't hyperbolize as much, but I certainly know how they feel. I've watched enough of DC politics to know that Justice is usually denied, and no one goes to jail.

Except Tom DeLay did.

[alarimer]

56. Let's be realistic, though.

Trump may not ever be indicted himself. This investigation may not yield that smoking gun and we have to be prepared for that reality.