U.S. Sen. Sanders rallies in Lubbock of all places

[Donkees]

By Matt Dotray / A-J Media
Posted Mar 10, 2018 at 7:44 PM

Excerpt:

Progressives on the Panhandle/South Plains hadn’t had a politically rally like what took place Saturday afternoon at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center in a long time, if ever. It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution, a grassroots organization built on continuing the policy messages of U.S. Senator and former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. Our Revolution must truly be taking this message everywhere, because 66 percent of Lubbock County voted for President Donald Trump in 2016. And 66 percent for a Republican candidate in West Texas is on the low side in recent years.

Sanders, a Vermont Independent, was in Lubbock to host the rally that drew a crowd well over the 1,000 person seating capacity. People weren’t turned away, but instead began lining the walls around the Civic Center’s banquet hall.

“I’m not here to tell you that I’m an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not,” Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. “This I do know — when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and you’ve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said. “Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/20180310/us-sen-sanders-rallies-in-lubbock-of-all-places

[Cha]

1. Bashing the Democratic Party A-gain..

[dalton99a]

9. The only way he can get himself in the news nowadays, it seems

[Me.]

58. Is He Ever In Vermont?

Don't they have problems there, their Senator should be attending to?

[Cha]

60. He's running for Senator

of Vermont in Lubbock, Texas, of course!

[SMC22307]

73. He's rallied 1,000+ in deep red Texas...

asking people to vote... for Democrats.

What are you doing, besides posting to a message board?

[George II]

120. A thousand people in a city of about 300,000? WOW!

[SMC22307]

151. Ha ha, the desperation reeks.

Poo-poo all you want, but it was impressive turnout in deep red-ville, eight months before the midterms.

[George II]

165. So you think a rally in a remote, 70% red town in Texas is more important than rallying...

...in a town that's, say, 51-49%?

[SMC22307]

174. "Town"? Upthread it's a 300,000+ city!

I'd like to see Bernie in SW PA, but I have no idea whether he was invited by the Lamb campaign or whether he reached out to them. Do you?

Bernie's been all over the place. What "town," specifically, do you feel is being ignored?

[GaryCnf]

186. Detroit, Philly

Milwaukee, Columbus, basically every urban center in the upper midwest?

Wait, hold it, just a sec, are we talking about THIS election? Are we talking about Bernie?

My mistake.

[SMC22307]

187. If some DUers are this worked up about Bernie in March...

can you imagine what it's gonna be like as we get closer to the mid-terms?!

[GaryCnf]

195. It's beyond comprehension

I think they've thrown so many of the people they were counting on in 2020 under the bus (e.g., Kamala Harris and Corey Booker for backing Medicaid for All; Kirsten Gillibrand for tipping the sacred cow - and NO, I'm not talking about Al Franken) that they're terrified that Sanders will enter as the early leader for the nomination. They will burn the party down to stop it from moving left.

[SMC22307]

201. Sounds rather *purist* to me.

Perhaps Deval Patrick will save the day! (Until he does something that doesn't meet with their approval.) And if there's anything we learned on this site between 2008 and 2016, it's that a candidate considered by many to be unfit to serve, magically becomes the most qualified candidate in the history of candidates.

Mahalo!

[GaryCnf]

205. This

[George II]

231. Since you've only been here since 2013, what would you know about those missing 5 years?

Your "Mahalo! " has been duly noted.

[SMC22307]

466. I've been "duly noteded" before.

It's rather anti-climactic.

[ehrnst]

284. Yes, many Democrats saw how a candidate considered by many to be unfit to serve

"magically" becomes the most qualified Demcratic candidate in the history of candidates.

A substantial majority of Democratic voters didn't agree with that assessment, however.

[GaryCnf]

433. "Unfit to serve"

So that's how some folks saw Bernie, not that he was less qualified, not that someone else was better, but "unfit to serve?"

How pathetic, how tribal, how destructive.

[ehrnst]

435. That's exactly what I saw towards Hillary a lot here on DU.

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Which is what the post I replied to did. In a passively worded way.

[GaryCnf]

444. Project much?

I'm sorry you see ANY criticism of the 2016 campaign as a personal attack on our candidate. IT ISN'T . . . get over it.

We had a great candidate and she should have been so far ahead that a million Russian trolls and a million Comeys would have rolled off her back.

[ehrnst]

446. We did have a great candidate and SHE won the votes

despite the statistical improbability of a party keeping the WH for more than two consecutive terms, voter suppression, Russian misinformation, misogyny on the Right and Left, and 25 years of smears from the GOP.

I'd call that pretty damn impressive.

And I'd say you're the one projecting.

[kstewart33]

428. I'm not terrified of it.

It could happen, but it's not likely Bernie will lead the pack. I'm not seeing the kind of support that he received in the late fall of 2015. Bernie supporters on Twitter seem to be more focused on asking Dems to give Bernie a second look.

The signs are there that his time is past. I could be wrong but 2016 is so over, and many are looking for new faces, certainly younger ones, that are center-left. Biden has the same problem IMHO - too old.

I'd wager that many Dems, myself included, saw Bernie as a spoiler candidate in the 2016 election and resent that deeply given the consequences of Trump's election.

[GaryCnf]

434. Bernie had ZERO to do with

What happened to us in the electoral college.

Resent all you want.

Btw, he may or may not have lost popularity among potential 2020 Democratic Primary voters, but he is clearly the frontrunner among the early names being mentioned. What's more, moderate purists have already disqualified so many of those early names for daring to move closer to the Bernie wing and/or for tipping the sacred cow.

[kstewart33]

436. No one else is running yet.

Everyone knows Bernie is running because Bernie is Bernie.

As time passes, let's see who makes a move. Biden will, but age is a real concern especially among younger voters. But he could win.

I don't think we'll see as much media coverage about Bernie in the 2020 campaign as we did in 2016. There'll be too much competition. And too many Dems who are fed up and want to move on.

[GaryCnf]

442. NO ONE is running

Accusing Bernie - any more so than Kamala, Booker, Gillebrand, Biden, or anyone else maintaining a national presence - of running is just more of the unrelenting smear.

[ehrnst]

447. Of course he's "not running"

Campaign finance laws, and FEC regulations would be kicking in if he was.

No one "is running" until they announce, just as no one stops running until they concede.

[GaryCnf]

448. You forgot Burlington College

[ehrnst]

449. What about Burlington College?

Projecting?

[ehrnst]

437. What is a "moderate purist?"

[GaryCnf]

443. What is a leftist purist?

[ehrnst]

445. I never said that a "lefist purist" existed

You mentioned "moderate purists."

Here it is in case you forgot:

Btw, he may or may not have lost popularity among potential 2020 Democratic Primary voters, but he is clearly the frontrunner among the early names being mentioned. What's more, moderate purists have already disqualified so many of those early names for daring to move closer to the Bernie wing and/or for tipping the sacred cow.

Are you backpedaling on that label now?

Or just avoiding having to define something that's an oxymoron?

[stlsaxman]

480. Now we have a Kennedy to save the day with "Affordable Heath care For All"...

Sorry- i'm sick and tired of counting on "miracles" or dynasties to replace the blood, sweat and tears it takes to mount a winning grass-roots populist campaign.

Aside from Campaign Finance Reform, THE single issue I will vote for is Single Payer- Expanded and Improved Medicare For All.

[Demsrule86]

352. And how many people came...1000, 2000...they went 67% for Trump?

Ok...well that makes very little sense.

[SMC22307]

462. Just like SW PA that went bigly for Trump, but swung to Lamb (D).

Bernie's economic message resonates... makes perfect sense.

[Demsrule86]

479. It is not even close to PA...and if we fielded the right candidate and kept it local, maybe. But not

after this ill advised rally. I just want to win and this is not how you win. Lamb went out door to door...talked to folks ...didn't have big rallies...kept it local.

[kstewart33]

403. Bernie's in Lubbock because he gets more media coverage there.

Bernie in a solid red town. More headlines, more coverage.

[ehrnst]

413. That, too. (nt)

[SMC22307]

467. "Don't vote for Republicans," as Bernie said, is the kind of headline I want.

Not sure about you.

[Demsrule86]

329. To call the Democrats weak ahead of an important special election in Texas is despicable.

I wish Sen. Sanders would go back to the Senate and do whatever he does there...outreach like that we don't need.

[SMC22307]

463. As we just witnessed in SW PA, Bernie's economic message resonates.

Healthcare was the #1 issue for voters, something Bernie's been preachin' for years. Twist all you want, he didn't call Dems weak, but he DID say don't vote for Republicans.

He's perfect for outreach and will wade in anywhere Dems fear to tread. Think about it: East Coast Jewish Socialist Democrat well received in RED Texas! LOL Ah, you go Bernie...

[Demsrule86]

478. Are you kidding me..this was a moderate Democrat who won in PA...our revolution types are

choosing way too progressive candidates for red districts unless like in Nebraska a former campaign worker is involved like Jane Kleeb. They primaryed Manchin. Lamb is not a Sanders candidate...and I thank God that Sanders stayed away...we want to localize elections which is another reason I object to his presence in deep red Texas.

[KTM]

233. +1000

A predictable response from the ususal suspects -thankfully it only reflects the attitude of a small minority of our party.

[George II]

249. "Our" party?

[KTM]

252. Yes George, ours.

I've been a registered Democrat and straight-ticket voter since the day I turned 18, but you go ahead and suggest otherwise and attempt to impugn my character. It may surprise you to hear, but there are millions of loyal Democrats who don't think exactly as you do, and you do our party no service by trying to silence the opinions of others. If you or any other insist on thinking of it as "your" party instead of "ours," then we can look forward to further losses.

[R B Garr]

250. She beat both male competitors by MILLIONS.

Hardly a minority. Thankfully indeed,

[ehrnst]

274. Apparently not the minority if math is taken into consideration.

Hillary had a considerable mandate.

[R B Garr]

327. Sorry, but you don't get to change reality. Millions more voted for

the Democrat. Hardly a minority. Hardly the usual suspects. I'll proudly stick with the majority.

Speaking of attitude....when denigrating Democrats is considered "ideas" and "issues" then it looks like we know who the minority of the party is. That attitude was rejected.

[R B Garr]

328. Your PM does not reflect your post. You clearly state here,

"a small minority of our party."

Do you see what you wrote??

You clearly were not just talking about this board, DU. Your own words say you were talking about "our party" so the reading comprehension problem is not with me.

[Demsrule86]

330. It really doesn't reflect a minority of opinion. You are kidding yourself.

And he is not a member of 'our' party clearly.

[SMC22307]

468. Lamb won in SW PA running on an economic platform very similar to Bernie's.

Healthcare was issue #1. The grapes must be VERY sour for our usual suspects.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

256. Bernie could cure cancer and be bashed for it here.

Last edited Mon Mar 12, 2018, 08:20 AM - Edit history (1)

[betsuni]

262. No, if Bernie cured cancer and then accused Democrats of not wanting to cure

cancer or not doing enough to cure cancer -- this is the objection. He'll be fine for a while and then he'll slip in a negative comment about Democrats. If Democrats had total power and weren't progressive enough, a fair point, but they don't. A few dozen conservative Democrats in red states don't represent the party. I don't understand the strategy of constant public criticism, many people don't. It's certainly not personal, anyone repeating the idea that Dems ignore the working/middle classes or don't want universal health care or are just like Republicans are getting the side-eye. It would help if people who say this give examples, facts.

[ehrnst]

271. +1000 (nt)

[Demsrule86]

346. or of unfairly trying to get someone else to cure cancer...

[ehrnst]

270. I remember someone saying that Hillary could walk on water

and people here would bash her for being "too elite" to bother to swim like the 99%.

[Demsrule86]

331. Come on...we have good discussions...and you are honest. Do you really think it is helpful to call

the Democratic party weak ahead of a special election or anytime really? The reason I don't like Sen. Sander anymore is because of what he says...I voted for him in the Ohio primary you know.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

381. Yes, and I'm certainly willing to concede Bernie has his "moments," like any politician...

no one is perfect. But, even you would have to concede, in all honesty, that some of the Bernie bashing that goes on here is WAYYY over the top and does FAR more damage to Democratic prospects, in terms of party disunity, than any constructive criticisms given by Bernie.

[ehrnst]

414. I had no idea that DU was so vital to party unity...

[SMC22307]

469. You got that right.

Grapes must be really sour now that a Dem won in Trump-ville PA, running on an economic platform very similar to Bernie's.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

481. Yup yup, Bernie has shown us the way... we just have to follow his lead.

[ehrnst]

272. Well, coming from someone "posting on a message board"

That's pretty rich.

[shenmue]

132. ROFL

[SMC22307]

71. Vermont is safely blue. Red areas are the problem in this country...

and Bernie's wading in to get people to vote for Democrats. What are you doing, besides posting to a message board?

[Me.]

75. Nice Attempt At Snark

Rallying other states Dems is not his first responsibility...his state of Vermont is. I wonder when he last showed up there. And, aren't you posting on a message board?

[SMC22307]

77. LOL! You're bashing someone who is trying to get people to vote for Democrats.

You should be thanking him. Vermont is safely blue and if the people of Vermont decide that Bernie has not addressed their needs, they'll boot him out.

Texas is high-profile now, and we need all hands on deck. Again, you should be thanking him if he's inspiring people to register, to vote, to get others to vote, to run for office, etc. I ask again: What are you doing to turn Texas blue?

[Me.]

87. So He Goes To Gets Votes For Dems

while disparaging DEms. Very Helpful. And let's see, how many SEnators don't pay attention to their constituents and still get re-elected, it's an old and tired story.

Thank him and OR........I'll thank them to not interfere and find candidates to run under their own Independent banner. Because, as we know they threaten from time to time to vote for Republicans and tell us how nice we should be to Comrade Trump voters.

[SMC22307]

98. He didn't disparage Dems. He told the audience to not vote for Republicans.

How much more clear does he need to be?

Stating that the Democratic Party has not done enough for the working people of this country is fact. You think those MASSIVE losses in recent years just happened on their own? Dems only fully controlling six states - an historic low - happened without reason?

Don't bash the person who's trying to get folks to vote for Dems. It's stupid. Truly.

[Me.]

102. First Off

He said..."Sanders said progressives haven’t made their message clear enough in rural America" ...it's as counter-productive as calling people stupid.

Secondly...'It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution'...You know OR...the people who said they'd consider voting for Republicans and who make a point of kicking Dems around.

But go ahead and kid yourself all you want.

[SMC22307]

108. Sounds like something Macedonian trolls would say...

and you fell for it.

[Me.]

117. I See You've Taken A Trip Down The Nile

Sad

[SMC22307]

159. Unfortunately, no, but I'd LOVE to visit Egypt some day.

And Morocco. And Tunisia.

[R B Garr]

179. This uneducated angle at making Bernie a victim

of Russian troll farms is the exact opposite of reality. Hillary was the victim.

If you are concerned about desperation, you might want to review the facts. I’ve been seeing this tactic starting, so I thought I would mention it. That info is all over the news — readily available. The Russians helped Trump and Bernie to harm Hillary.

[SMC22307]

182. And then the Russians would have helped Trump to harm Bernie...

once Hillary was out of the picture. It's all about sowing discord.

[R B Garr]

214. Obviously that is why helping Bernie was their goal. The divisiveness helped

the GOP. I see that aspect is only accepted when it helps Bernie's image, but not so much understood if it is about Hillary/Democrats. Very self-serving there, but not unexpected. Divisiveness in Texas is still divisiveness.

[ehrnst]

438. Yep. And Conor Lamb showed that

one doesn't need to be a Democratic Socialist to get support in deep red districts.

[Me.]

439. Too Right

[SMC22307]

470. LOL Connor Lamb ran -- and won -- on an economic platform VERY similar to Bernie's.

Healthcare was #1, something Bernie's been preachin' for years. And Lamb distanced himself from Pelosi. We need new leadership, especially since so many seats were lost on her long watch. New blood.

[ehrnst]

475. I didn't see an endorsement from Our Revolution.

Did I miss that? Maybe they didn't want to draw attention to any pro-gun voting record - and I can certainly understand why.

Lambs economic platform was Democratic. Bernie didn't invent that.

And when did Nancy become the Chair of the DCCC?

Because all of the sudden, when it's Nancy, you seem to think the job of the DCCC is the Speaker and/or the minority leader.

Not so much when it was Harry Reid, Dick Gephart or Tip O'Neill. Can't imagine what's different about Nancy.

And what qualifies as "new blood?" Can you specify? Anyone other than Nancy? Or just anyone with less experience and skill?

What do you know that her colleagues who keep electing her don't?

[George II]

123. Yeah, brilliant - trying to get people to vote for Democrats by telling them...

...the Democrats that he's trying to get them to vote for haven't done enough.

Where's the logic in that?

In other words, "they're not doing enough for you but vote for them anyway!"

[SMC22307]

125. The logic is yeah, there's a problem, maybe they haven't done enough for working people.

However, WE are going to fix it. Republicans suck and will hurt you -- millions w/o health insurance, no Medicaid expansion, voting to repeal the ACA -- don't vote for them. Too many have dropped out of the political process, but let's get them re-engaged. VOTE for Democrats, and bring people with you to the polls.

What a nerve.

[George II]

126. Who is "WE"? Our Revolution?

[SMC22307]

138. "WE" is anyone who votes for Democrats.

Turnout is abysmal. Bernie's trying to change that.

[sheshe2]

142. Then who is 'They'?

[SMC22307]

150. Those who don't vote for Democrats. (n/t)

[sheshe2]

153. Yes.

There were a lot of those last go around. They sat out the election/ voted third party in a huff.

[George II]

176. And if they've got a guy from 1,700 miles away telling you Democrats...

....haven't done enough to help them, you think they'll vote for Democrats this time around?

Not likely.

[sheshe2]

181. Not at all.

Why would they? They were just told Democrats did little for them. Really not a way to rally support IMHO.

[mcar]

152. Uh huh

Seems the DNC Outreach Coordinator has his pronouns confused.

[sheshe2]

154. Uh huh...

...

[ehrnst]

279. Can you quantify "turnout is abysmal?"

Because Hillary got more votes than anyone but Obama in 2008.

Also, have you heard about voter suppression of Democrats?

https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/12/the-real-voting-scandal-of-2016

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2016/11/11/292322/voter-suppression-laws-cost-americans-their-voices-at-the-polls/

I hope that clarfies some things for you.

[SMC22307]

471. Is just over 61% in a national election really something to get excited about?

Even though it was supposedly a "record number."

And I just stumbled upon this:

Black voter turnout fell in 2016, even as a record number of Americans cast ballots
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/

What impact did that have on results in PA, MI, and WI -- three states we traditionally carried and whose electoral votes we desperately needed.

And don't get me started on mid-terms turnout - under 40% in 2014?!

And I hope that clarifies some things for YOU.

[ehrnst]

473. You are ignoring voter supression of Democrats.

Especially in PA, MI and WI.

Where we lost by a sliver.

But that doesn't support your narrative.

Gotcha.

[sheshe2]

140. Hmmm.

SMC22307 (3,374 posts)
125. The logic is yeah, there's a problem, maybe they haven't done enough for working people.

However, WE are going to fix it.

I am curious who the 'We' are as well, George. The other question is who are 'They'?

They haven't done well....and We will fix it. I thought we were all Democrats here, what is with the They and We stuff. Makes it sound like we are two different parties.

I am a Democrat.

[betsuni]

148. Yes.

"They" are Democrats too obsessed with identity politics to have an economic message. "We" have an identity-free economic message that white voters will hear and see the error of their ways and vote for us. Easy!

[sheshe2]

189. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Makes it easier when we need to pursue more than one issue at a time. People have to do that every dayum day.

I am, like many, not a single issue voter.

Hey

[ehrnst]

474. Who is "they?" as opposed to "we?"

Care to clarify?

I won't hold my breath, because you clearly don't have the courage to.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. He's in Texas because that is one of his jobs.

Not sure if you know it but Bernie is The Chairman of Democratic Outreach

This is from the official page of The Senate Democratic Leadership

[SMC22307]

85. How quickly they forget.

[George II]

128. Being in Texas is not part of that job. I'm sure you know that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

143. Yeah, but if he wasn't out there campaigning for Dems

you'd be complaining that he wasn't doing enough, right?

[George II]

145. Nope. At this point, and with the recent success rate of his endorsed candidates, I wish....

...he'd do nothing.

Not many more than 1/3 of the candidates that he and his organization endorsed have won. As the saying goes, "with friends like that........."

[SMC22307]

164. "candidates supported by Our Revolution won or advanced to runoffs in 17 out of 29 races."

In the Texas primaries on Tuesday - the first contests of the mid-term season - candidates supported by Our Revolution won or advanced to runoffs in 17 out of 29 races. One, Laura Moser in Houston, did so despite being opposed by a Democratic Party campaign committee - a move Mr Sanders called "absolutely unacceptable".

http://www.bbc.com/news/43355674

No one said it was going to be easy. And how are you contributing to Democratic victories? Trashing Bernie Sanders on a message board doesn't count.

[George II]

168. I trust Our Revolution's endorsement list more than the BBC's numbers:

Here's a quick summary from THEIR OWN website:

2018 - 1 win, 4 losses, 20% ("advancing to a run-off" doesn't count, that's not a win, and OR doesn't even count them)
2017 - 44 wins, 69 losses, 38%

Now, what am I contributing to Democratic victories? Hmmm, where do I start?

I've run for office six times, won four times
I've been an officer of our local Democratic Committee since 2005
I've been a delegate to our State Convention five times, and our Congressman's convention three times, and countless other local conventions
I've been campaign treasurer for five Mayoral campaigns, Party treasurer for ten years, and deputy treasurer for two of our State Senator's campaigns

Not to mention the thousands of phone calls I've made and doors I've knocked on.

You?

[mountain grammy]

230. It seems for some here, trashing Bernie Sanders is all they got.

It's disgusting and way over the top. I think they hate that he's still so popular. How silly and petty that is.

[SMC22307]

472. Conor Lamb won in PA running on an economic platform very similar to Bernie's...

and they're trying to diminish it. The grapes are even more sour. Healthcare was the #1 issue for SW PA voters. They can trash all they want, but it is what it is.

[Demsrule86]

347. He is at an our revolution rally.

[mountain grammy]

225. Thank you!

boy, talk about Bernie Sanderss derangement syndrome.. it's here and it's strong. He gets 1000 people in Lubbock Tx. Fills the hall to standing room only. But goodness, let's ignore those people. Let's put them down, belittle them. I don't understand the hate here. Isn't there enough hate from the KGOP?

[ehrnst]

282. Who is putting down or belittling these people?

Can you provide some backup for that accusation?

[George II]

285. Speaking of "belittle them", that's what he did to the Democratic Party in his address.

That is what gets so many people upset. It seems that in every address he makes he has to take a few swipes at the Democratic Party and Democrats.

To me that's not the way to encourage Democrats to get out and vote for Democratic candidates?

[George II]

293. Yes, he filled the hall in Lubbock and then proceeded to tell them that the Democratic Party...

...wasn't doing enough for the working people!

From his speech - "I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country"

So how are comments like that going to get people out to vote for Democrats?

BTW, it's wasn't even a Democratic Party rally, it was an Our Revolution rally.

[ehrnst]

318. Crickets... (nt)

[kstewart33]

407. Grammy, maybe the problem is this.

A growing number of people in the US realize that Bernie is not the answer. His politics are too far left to win the support of the center and center-left Dems and moderate Republicans. His message continues to be free health care for all, free college for all, etc., with no workable explanation of how we are going to pay for this. Obamacare failed in Vermont for this very same reason - it was too expensive and the state essentially could not pay for it.

Dems are also very, very tired of Bernie criticizing the party when we all know that 1) Bernie is running in 2020; 2) Bernie will run as a Dem only to get the party's benefits; and 3) they will not vote for someone who grabs the party's resources but refuses to join the party that he wants to lead. The resentment is huge and many Dems are mad as heck about this.

Dems also realize the if Bernie runs, it will split the party to some degree and the media will run with divisiveness 24/7. Such will decrease turnout because who wants to vote for a party that can't get its act together?

Dems also know that defeating Trump is far more important than any of Bernie's issues. We must defeat Trump first. Only then can we begin to work on passing a full-fledged healthcare solution and strengthen Medicare and Medicaid.

Lastly, Bernie is very, very old. Too old to withstand the demands and stress of the presidency. So is Biden. IMHO, anyone over 70 has no business in the Oval Office.

So my prediction is that Bernie will damage Dem's chances in 2020 but hopefully the damage will be limited.

[herding cats]

251. Texas has a lot of money.

Candidates love Texas. Even if Progressive Democrats only love to hate the state, apparently their candidates know it’s a political monetary milk cow. Which it is. Which is why they milk it every damn year. Even while their purist supporters denigrate the Democrats who reside there.

Bernie is obviously raising money here. Anyone who knows the dynamics of the state politics, which I and apparently Bernie do, despite his pretending not to get how the state works does, realizes that.

Trashing Dems in Texas can be more than a little lucrative. Ask any non Democratic politician whose used the method. Of which we have an extensively long history. Especially of spoiler third party candidates. We’re dumbass central for that crap. You can pull the politically ignorant and the third party sympathizers out of the wood work here with that stuff! Ask Kinky Friedman, that’s how he made sure we ended up with Bush as governor. Oh, and Perry, too. We love us some extreme third party spoilers here in Texas. Except the majority of Dems don’t vote for them, they just fractured the vote and make a lot of money here.

[G_j]

278. Obviously, it doesnt matter. nt

[ehrnst]

281. What he's doing is "outreach?"

And from what I heard here on DU, there was outrage that DNC was "throwing Bernie a bone" with a "token position" which was essentially talking to white people about supporting the Democratic party.

I guess that it's different now.

[George II]

290. Unfortunately people misunderstand the duties of the "outreach" position he has in the Senate.

Those duties have very little to do with anything outside of the Capital Building and Senate Office Building. It certainly doesn't entail traveling around the country and holding rallies under the auspices of the Democratic Party, much less Our Revolution.

[ehrnst]

291. I guess getting in digs at "a few individuals in Washington" is part of the job now. (nt)

[stevenleser]

299. Bashing the Democratic Party is doing Democratic Party outreach? BS

He’s not doing Democratic Party outreach, he is campaigning for himself.

[ehrnst]

321. Bingo. (NT)

[Jim Lane]

96. If Bernie were holding rally after rally in safely blue Vermont --

while ignoring tough races in red and purple areas around the country -- then some people here would be bashing him for that.

[SMC22307]

119. Of course. And oh, dear God, the poor optics! LOL

[George II]

131. So he rallies in a district that voted 70% for republicans.....

....seems like a waste of time and resources when there are so many other places that are very close and could be flipped.

You really 20% are going to be flipped in Lubbock?

http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/TX/Lubbock/64162/183696/Web01/en/summary.html

[SMC22307]

158. A Democrat won in Alabama, eh?

Stop trying to depress Democratic turnout. Seats are flipping. Be positive and work toward Democratic victories (even in deep red-ville) or get out of the way.

[George II]

162. Who is talking about Alabama? However, since you bring it up, in the recent special election...

Although 20 Democratic Senators endorsed Doug Jones, Sanders didn't endorse him. Surely you're not implying that he deserves credit for Doug Jones' victory.

Me depressing Democratic turnout? I didn't go to Lubbock Texas and all but say that Democrats aren't doing a good job for the working people there. THAT is the type of thing that depresses Democratic turnout.

[SMC22307]

194. No, I'm surely not.

But what I am saying is that we need to be firing on ALL cylinders. And Sanders' message has tremendous appeal, contrary to what a handful of DUers believe.

He said Democrats haven't done ENOUGH for working people. If Democrats HAD done enough, we wouldn't be looking at MASSIVE losses and historically low control of state governments and governorships. People need to snap out of denial, acknowledge the problems, and fix them.

[Jim Lane]

170. Thank you for proving my point.

Whatever Bernie does, he'll come in for criticism on this board.

In Lubbock, he was appearing for several candidates. One was a Democrat running for Congress against a Republican who didn't even have a Democratic opponent in 2016. If the race does nothing other than "show the flag" (because the Republican is re-elected handily), I think there's value in contesting every seat. It follows that the intrepid candidates who run in such districts should be encouraged and supported. If you think we should instead hang those staunch Democrats out to dry, well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Bernie was also there to support Democratic candidates in various downticket races. I don't have time to research answers to every anti-Bernie post on DU, even if I thought that the authors were open to persuasion. Therefore, I don't know what the composition of the various other districts is. I'll just note that those Democrats probably aren't all running county-wide, so your data for Lubbock County voting don't resolve the question. There are Democratic elected officials in Texas, just as there are Republicans in California.

My final comment is that numerous elections since Trump's inauguration have shown impressively large swings toward the Democrats. Some bright red districts have been flipped. That doesn't prove that we can flip every bright red district, but we'll never know unless we try.

ETA: Yeah, I know I said "final comment" and I know I should've left it at that, but I'll add one more point, for any who have ears to hear. The article linked in the OP reports that, the day before Bernie's Lubbock rally, he did events in Austin and San Antonio. He left Lubbock to fly on to a rally in Phoenix. If his level of activity on behalf of Democratic candidates doesn't meet your standards, I guess he'll just have to live with your disapproval.

[George II]

191. It would be nice if he'd "campaign" for Democrats under the Democratic label, not Our Revolution....

...and it also would be nice if they didn't solicit contributions to Our Revolution at these rallies.

I'm not going to research it either, but were the Austin and San Antonio rallies, and the upcoming Phoenix rally, Our Revolution rallies?

I know that Democrats have flipped a number of red/purple seats to blue, but not many of them were seats won by candidates endorsed by Sanders/Our Revolution.

They have had a dismal success rate over the last year or so.

[Jim Lane]

226. In his many rallies for Democrats, he might not always have worn the right tie, either. (n/t)

[George II]

248. .

[ehrnst]

319. Nobody cares about his ties or his hair.

strawman argument - you can do better than this at trying to equate any criticism of BS with being about trivial unimportant things.

It's who he's actually rallying for that's at issue.

[R B Garr]

359. His appearances were for Our Revolution and to associate his face and

that organization with the blue wave there in Texas when all reports are that the blue wave is comprised of just plain, old-fashioned good Democrats, same as it ever was. It is all very coincidentally self-serving, it looks like.

[TexasTowelie]

258. The event in Austin was a CNN interview by Jake Tapper at the SXSW festival.

The event in San Antonio was at Trinity University and was a fundraiser for Our Revolution. I can't verify whether the event in Phoenix was a fundraiser, but Nina Turner also spoke.

[Demsrule86]

343. You do understand that there is a Republican governor in Vermont?

[Jim Lane]

356. You do understand that the Vermont Democratic Party website features Bernie?

I suggest you send a stiffly worded letter to the state party, explaining all of Bernie's many defects, as expounded at great length on DU, and demanding that they remove him from their listing of "Federal Officials" on their website.

[Demsrule86]

367. This post was to make you aware of the fact Vermont is not a blue state completely.

As for Sanders and Vermont...that would be Vermont's business. Why should I care?

[George II]

416. In fact, looking at the Governor and Congressional Delegation, Vermont...

...is only half-blue. Only two of the four candidates are Democrats.

[sheshe2]

133. Blue does not make a state safe.

Taking a state color for granted is a mistake and that is why so many yawn and do not vote. Trust me, I know. I am from MA and we keep electing fugging GOP GOVERNORS!!!

So do not tell me a blue state is safe. Nothing is safe, especially now.

[Champion Jack]

211. bingo

[Demsrule86]

332. Vermont has a Republican governor...so I would not consider them 'safely blue'...

[KPN]

76. Bashing? Why are you bashing the Chair

for Democratic Part Outreach appointed by the Minority Leader Chuck Schumer?

[SMC22307]

79. Good question. And Dems are in the MINORITY for a reason...

and it ain't because of one Bernard Sanders. Do posters on this board not understand that Democrats fully control only SIX states? The Lubbock attendees praised Sanders for wading into deep red territory and trying to get folks to vote for Democrats. How curious the same isn't happening on a supposedly progressive message board.

[Demsrule86]

333. Wading into deep red territory and bashing Democrats is hardly helpful.

[SMC22307]

465. Wading into deep red territory and telling people not to vote for Republicans.

Let's see Nancy Pelosi do that. SW PA swung big to Dems with healthcare the #1 issue -- exactly what Bernie's been preachin' for years. Told yinz so.

[Demsrule86]

476. And that the Democratic party has to do... what was the quote? Something like they

need to stand up for working people.. said.in a deep red state...I repeat NOT HELPFUL.

[ehrnst]

399. So why do you think Dems are in the minority?

I'm assuming you're talking about the House and Senate.

[George II]

139. He's not doing the job that Chuck Schumer appointed him to.

[Cha]

190. BS' own words are bashing the Democratic

Party in Lubbock, Texas.

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said.

Democratic outreach.. right.

Telling us to respect these people..

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

193. Thank you!

I have to chuckle at all those who are pretending that he's not bashing Democrats a-gain. Even more amusing is how they also try to claim that calling-out the bashing is supposed to be an "attack".

❤️

[Cha]

197. I know, Jackie.. there's a word for

that..

An "attack" on the "Democratic Outreach" guy? Is that his title.. ROFL

❤️ Good to see you, kiddo!

[NurseJackie]

199. What outreach?

I don't see it.

[Cha]

200. It's

Orwellian.

[KPN]

206. This as 2000 people show up in a deeply red State

to hear him speak. Disconnect?

[NurseJackie]

213. Oooo. Ahhh. Two thousand, eh? Wow. So impressive.

[KPN]

223. Really? Ridicule?

[NurseJackie]

224. So I struck a nerve, I see.

[KTM]

229. So you achieved your goal.

Did you enjoy the lulz ?

[KPN]

241. Lol.

Yeah, that's it.

[George II]

280. Hmmm, Sunday morning it was 1,200.

[KPN]

286. OK. 1200 .

[Demsrule86]

334. And that means what exactly? In 16 big rallies didn't translate into votes.

[KPN]

355. Say what?

Of course they did. Listen, Sanders made appearances. Those appearances turned into appearances with huge attendance. Many if not of those who attended those appearances voted for our nominee in the GE. Don't knock organic growth -- it's a good thing when the messages that inspire it are positive, good messages.

[R B Garr]

361. Hillary beat both male opponents, though. She did that with perfectly

good messages of her own. We don't need to frame everything in relation to what Sanders gave her. She won by millions in each election despite the negative attacks on her. She was attacked from all directions, and she still won. That is a good, positive message.

[Demsrule86]

368. The person who had the big rallies was not the nominee.

I saw a year where we lost a very important election and the Russians interfered in the election , tricked some on our side and may have stolen the election outright...I see nothing good...just fights and division coming out of 16....we need to put it behind us.

[KPN]

370. I agree. So people would do well to stop the

hit pieces on Senator Sanders, the Senate Democrats Committee Chair for Outreach, wheever an article is published about him.

Move on.

[R B Garr]

389. His own words are not a hit piece.

He has made it clear that he is calculating of which Democrats he supports, so let’s not be told to stifle just because he uses an outreach title to promote his Revolution.

[ehrnst]

410. His own words?

That's a "hit piece?"

[KPN]

422. No, not his words. The response they draw from some posters here.

[George II]

418. The functions and duties of the "Senate Democrats Committee Chair for Outreach"....

....are in Washington, DC, not in Texas or Arizona.

You don't know what that job entails, do you?

[ehrnst]

402. Do you have some stats on the Sanders audiences who showed at Clinton appearances in the GE?

Or is that speculation?

[KPN]

408. Do you?

[ehrnst]

415. Nice try at a deflection. I wasn't making statements on the numbers, you were.

Sounds like it was speculation, then.

Got it.


FYI -
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence

[KPN]

419. Yes, it is speculation based on anecdotal evidence. I don't know anyone personally

who voted for Sanders in the primary but voted Trump or Stein in the GE. I haven't heard anyone say they've done that, here or anywhere else? I don't even know anyone personally who chose not to vote in the GE after casting their ballot for Sanders in the primary.

On the other hand, I hear the opposite speculation being made here about Sanders' supporters routinely. Where's the evidence? It's not deflection, it's asking a logical question.

[ehrnst]

424. I am not the one making speculation concerning this one way or another.

You should ask the poster you see making such speculation.

[KPN]

425. I didn't say you were, did I?

[ehrnst]

429. Oh, so you were asking this rhetorically in a post responding to me

On the other hand, I hear the opposite speculation being made here about Sanders' supporters routinely. Where's the evidence? It's not deflection, it's asking a logical question.

Glad you clarified that with your follow up. Sort of.

I still can't speak for anyone else, and don't know which posts you saw this speculation posited.

[KPN]

431. Well, I can only say that I've seen plenty of posts, especially shortly after the election that

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

stated that about and basically blamed Sanders' supporters/millennials for the outcome.

Listen, pressure is an essential ingredient in influencing policy, even when progressive friendly politicians are in office. Ultimately, that's what Senator Sanders is doing. He's applying pressure and inspiring others to apply pressure. In my mind, that's a good thing. We just need to do two things: GOTV (apply pressure back on all those Sanders' supporters to vote D) and then -- as a party -- follow through once we are in office. We can do those things.

[ehrnst]

441. How successful has his pressure been in his career as a politician on Cap Hill in getting results?

That is the question that many people ask themselves when choosing to vote for a candidate.

[KPN]

455. It kind of depends on how you define results. Is it bills authored and

successfully shepherded into law. Amendments? How well the legislator represented his/her constituency via votes on bills? I would say that Sanders has been less than stellar at bills passed as a Senator (not that he hasn't had some significant success in this regard or that other powerful and influential Senators have also been less than stellar in this regard -- Harry Reid a notable example as I recall) whereas he kind of excelled in getting amendments enacted to advance progressive goals as a Congressman. So ... a mixed record on that metric. On the representing his constituency (the people who voted him into office) in his voting record, I am guessing he scores very high. If raising progressive issues and views in the Senate/Congress is important, while not a direct "result", he'd probably rate very high there as well.

That's the best and most honest I can provide without a lot of research, tallying and comparing.

[ehrnst]

456. He has had a long career.

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

A very long one. Amendments are something that is done after the work of creating the legislation - the drafting, discussion, the compromising, the cooperating and the writing by the committee is finished. Adding amendments at the end of the legislative process doesn't require teamwork skill or hours of contributing to the process of creating the bill.

Of course, there is Sierra Blanca as a legislative achievement for Bernie. He was quite motivated to be involved in that piece legislation from start to finish, clearly.

He has a small, very homogeneous constituency. His record is fine for them.

[ehrnst]

404. Big rallies didn't translate into anything for Nader either (nt)

[KPN]

204. We obviously disagree on those points.

We obviously have different perspectives and biases about Senator Sanders generally.

[stevenleser]

305. Because the Chair has a warped view of the job, thats why. Nt

[KPN]

323. So he shouldn't try to grow interest, enthusiasm and investment in the party?

Some, many here see him doing that.

[R B Garr]

324. It is obvious he is in Texas to take credit for the blue

wave and have his face associated with what others have done. Trying to make false associations about the Revolution. Opportunistic.

[Demsrule86]

335. He isn't growing interest in the party...he called the party weak.

I have no idea what his purpose is but growing interest in the party is not it.

[KPN]

358. I disagree. I know people who voted in 2016

in the GE who hadn't voted before -- because of having heard Bernie. And voted for Hillary. I also know people like myself who voted Sanders in the primary, Hillary in the GE. I believe some would not have voted in the GE had Sanders' not influenced the "most progressive platform ever" as many have called it here at DU. He had a huge positive effect in my view and continues to inspire people to get engaged in the political process. Given the issues and positions that inspire them, I think that's a good thing. ... We need to develop a thicker skin when it comes to people pointing out places where we should do better. That will win us votes and elections.

[R B Garr]

360. Hillary outperformed both male opponents by millions, so it looks like her message

was better. Her achievements don't need to be denigrated or framed as something to do with Bernie or anyone. She actually achieved more votes in spite of it all, not because of it.

[Demsrule86]

365. It is not about our skin...saying bad stuff turns people off ...it just does.

And the platform is completely meaningless...because we lost. And who cares if it is a 12 or 15 minimum (although Hillary attacked on this issue). We didn't get shit because again we lost. I believe the criticisms of Hillary and the Democratic Party led to our loss in 16 and Sen. Sanders should stop just stop...he isn't helping.

[ehrnst]

405. People shouldn't point to others and cry "thin-skinned" who themselves won't

tolerate dissent from a particular manifesto.

That turns a lot of people off - which is the opposite of "inspiring."

I'm more inspired and interested by actions and acheivements than words, and so are a whole lot of other people at this point in history.

I can find inspiring words and ideas from lots of places, including my own friends. Actual legislative accomplishments, only one place.

[KPN]

411. Whatever. We see things differently. I recognize and accept the

notion that voting and voting Dem is absolutely a must. I don't see Senator Sanders' actions as impediments to that in any way, rather I see them as promoting that. We have two different views of the same picture.

[ehrnst]

417. "Whatever."

That is such a convincing way to start out a statement that we have two valid but different points of view of the same thing.

[KPN]

420. Ridicule? Come on. There's no need for that.

[ehrnst]

421. Whatever.

See what I did there?

[KPN]

423. No, not really. What did you do?

[ehrnst]

430. You are cute.

[KPN]

432. My wife thinks so. Oh, and my daughter.

[ehrnst]

440. I don't imagine you interact with them the way you do

with many here on DU.

[KPN]

451. Oh?

[ehrnst]

457. And?

[KPN]

458. And what? I'm not going to get into

a pissing match.

[ehrnst]

459. Oh?

[KPN]

460. Yes.

[ehrnst]

461. Lol.

[stonecutter357]

137. +1000.

[calimary]

180. DAMMIT!

SO damn counterproductive! If enough people splinter off from the Dems, we stand NO chance of retaking Congress this fall!!!! And frankly, it screws over any hopes HE has of seeing anything on his political wish list enacted!

Shit - doesn’t anybody get that????

[Cha]

192. Counterproductive is exactly right, calimary..

We have the Democratic Party working hard to retake seats in Congress.. and along comes BS with his constant negativity about the Democratic Party..

And, telling us to respect these people..

Link to tweet

[mcar]

2. What is with Sanders and the constant Dem bashing?

This could depress turnout in November. Doesn't he know what we're up against?

[Cha]

3. Let's hope his constant bashing of

the Democratic Party does Nothing to suppress a Blue Tsunami!



catbyte

mcar

[Adrahil]

4. It's who he is. Bernie needs to go away. NT

[mcar]

5. I just don't know what he hopes to gain by this

His supporters are always saying liberals and progressives need to be united, not divided. Well, who's doing the dividing?

[dalton99a]

7. Precisely.

[Cha]

11. Yeah, I think we know

who's doing the dividing.

[Adrahil]

25. A lot of my friends are very progressive....

Many of them voted for Bernie in the primaries (including my wife).

They are not thrilled with Bernie's inability to grasp the nature of the conflict we are engaged in.

Bernie isn;t going to change. This is who he is. He's not really interested in governing so much as being a gadfly with a fan base. I'm beginning to think his narcissism is stronger than his "progressivism." I remain DEEPLY bothered by his assertions that Democrats do not advocate for "working people," which begins to look more and more like he means "poor white people." I do not object to reaching out to poor whites, but he (and we) must ALWAYS remember that they have been co-opted by racism. They are voting against their economic interests because they have been conditioned to believe that people different from them (and poorer than them) are to blame for their problems. Bernie NEVER addresses that.

[Joediss]

45. Agree

Bernie is like Trump in many ways , he just wants to get in front a bunch of people and run the democratic party, fuck that sob

[George II]

54. Great point. And now that you mention it...

When he talks about "wealth inequality" he only speaks in general, never (or very rarely) specifically addresses the income or wealth inequality between blacks and whites, or between women and men.

And he is never, ever, ever specific on HOW he intends to do what "we have to xxxxx". I guess he thinks all he has to do is identify his issues, and leave it up to everyone else to actually solve the problems.

[ehrnst]

122. Vermont is 98.5% white.

Last edited Sun Mar 11, 2018, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)

His message appeals to that demographic, as one would expect in order for him to be elected by that small population.

He's lived there most of his life, since his twenties, so it makes sense.

[Me.]

61. Isn't That One Of The Points Made In 'To Kill A Mockingbird'?

Where the Ewells, and the jury, condemn Tom Robinson because he, a black man, felt sorry for them or at least for the sad plight a white woman.?

[R B Garr]

63. Such a great post. Nailed it.

[Hortensis]

70. Adrahill, subjection of avowed goals to personality quirks

was the conclusion I also came to, back in the fall of 2015. I had the advantage of exposure to, being part of, a whole group with the "Sanders problem" back in the 1960s. So even though like you I initially looked at him hopefully, I very quickly started picking up alarming signs of the same problems that sank them long ago. And reading about his history killed the rest of any hopes. You called it -- Gadfly with grandiose delusions, propped up trump-style by massive delusional contempt for the can-doers who've always achieved around and despite him.

I tend to wish, in hindsight, that we did not allow one to run as a Democrat, just to keep the allies-foes thing clearer for voters in general. But our leadership was -- and is still -- hoping that holding this one close will keep him from turning into a Nader or Stein. Only partially worked in 2016, but at least we "only" lost by an incredibly thin margin.

[pandr32]

69. Yep

And it is a problem.

[George II]

124. It was an Our Revolution rally. Was there an admission fee?

[mcar]

155. Oh, no, no. Sen Sanders is the DNC Outreach Chair

He couldn't possibly appear under that mantle and rally for something else. Could he?

[George II]

160. He did. And going to Texas for a even if it was a Democratic rally, isn't part of that job.

[mcar]

161. This is not helpful to Dem GOTV efforts

That is what is important in 2018. Nothing else matters.

[TexasTowelie]

173. No admission fee to the rally,

but they did ask for a $5 donation to Our Revolution. I don't know whether they tried to register any voters, raise funds for the individual candidates, or the Democratic Party.

[Cha]

238. $5 donation? Registering Voters

is something everyone in the Democratic Party is interested in.

[sheshe2]

147. Yup...

[SMC22307]

74. Attendees praised him for wading into deep red territory...

asking people to vote for Democrats. You have a warped sense of what might depress turnout...

[mcar]

86. Telling the crowd that Democrats are a problem

Could depress turnout. We've seen it before.

But that's just my "warped sense."

[SMC22307]

91. "People in this state should not be voting Republican."

How much more clear does he need to be?

He's also saying that the Democratic Party "has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country - we’re trying to change that." Considering the MASSIVE Democratic losses over recent years, voters have pretty much figured that out on their own. Many feel abandoned by the party and have decided to give Republicans a chance. Bernie is trying to bring them back.

Voter turnout in this country is abysmal. Per Sanders, "Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.” Why would anyone on a political message board trash someone who is trying to get people to vote?

[mcar]

99. "I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up.."

"I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country —we're trying to change that,” Sanders said. “Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

How much clearer does he need to be?

Voter turnout is abysmal. Telling people Democrats are doing a bad job isn't going to inspire people to vote. I'd like to see him be more positive, instead of talking about how bad he thinks Dems are.

[Demsrule86]

336. That pisses me off so badly...I can't even say how much...

[Adrahil]

90. I don't have an objection to him going into red territory....

My objection is to his utter bullshit assertion that the Democratic Party hasn't been advancing the interests of working people. That's complete nonsense.

What Sanders needs to be telling these people is that the Republicans have played them. That they have appealed to fear and have sought to drive wedges between Americans by encouraging them to blame their woes on minorities, immigrants, and even gay people. That they need to understand they've been played and reject the divisive Republican message.

But I don't believe Sanders has it in him. This is who he is. This is ALL he is.

[SMC22307]

94. He clearly stated that people should not be voting for Republicans...

and gave clear examples as to why. He also stated that the Democratic Party HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH to help working class Americans. On that, I agree. And considering Democrats fully control only SIX states, other voters have too. He's trying to bring those folks back to the party. You may not feel he's doing enough, but people do want to hear him (over 1,000 in freakin' Lubbock, Texas is impressive). Who else in the Democratic Party is holding these kind of rallies?

[Adrahil]

111. You not getting it...

and neither does Sanders. People aren't voting fo Republicans because Democrats aren't progressive enough. They are voting for them because they are being deluged by right wing propaganda. And Bernie's rallies will do NOtHING to reverse that.

[SMC22307]

114. Right-wing media is a huge problem. So is a disappearing middle class.

But there will always be a crazy 30%, as we saw with Dubya and now with Drumpf. It's the others who can be reached, those harmed by bad Republican economic policy. Bernie touched on this at the rally: millions without health insurance, not expanding Medicaid, voting to end the ACA, etc.

Jesus, you're so negative. You have no idea what Bernie's rallies will or won't do, but it's worth a shot. We need all the help we can get, especially considering the MASSIVE Democratic losses in recent years. If he can inspire someone -- anyone -- to actually vote for Democrats, bra-vo! Every vote matters, as we saw in the tied Simonds v. Yancey race in Virginia.

[Adrahil]

116. I'm so negative?

I'm not the one in Rexas saying the Democrats aren't very good. That's not a winning message.

[SMC22307]

121. His message was Republicans suck -- don't vote for them.

And like a mature adult, he acknowledged the Democratic Party hasn't done enough for working people and that WE are going to fix it.

Again, if the Democratic Party HAD done enough for working people, maybe we wouldn't be looking at massive losses and control of a measly six states.

[Eyeball_Kid]

105. I'm hearing something else: Sanders is encouraging the Democratic Party to do better.

I don't hear the criticism. I hear Sanders advancing the opportunity for the Dems to continue to hone their message so that it appeals to the people who most desire a change in their own circumstances. Sanders is using the rhetoric of urgency, he should, and we all should listen. Texas residents must know that it's the Dems who are listening to their plight, not the GOP. That's Sanders' message, and it's okay by me.

[mcar]

113. Maybe he should do that at DNC meetings

Since he's the Outreach Chair of the party, he should be reaching out on behalf of the party instead of publicly running it down.

"The Democratic Party has let you down" sure doesn't say "vote for Democrats" to me.

[KPN]

210. How are these people going to be persuaded to vote

Democratic when they haven't in the past due to disillusion. "We're going to continue to provide for more of the same when it comes to people vs money" sure isn't going to persuade many. What's the message? How do you patch a soured relationship without taking some ownership in what's behind the souring?

[SMC22307]

202. Agree. Good post! (n/t)

[KPN]

207. Exactly. Senator Sanders is actually trying

to expand the Democratic Party voter block and turnout by talking about what is important to average people -- a government that does a better job of representing and meeting the needs of people before corporations and money.

[Demsrule86]

337. It is a piss poor attempt when you say the Democratic party has not stood up yada yada.

[KPN]

362. Well, I don't believe he is saying the party

has never stood up. What I hear is the party has not been strong enough in standing up to monied interests and can do a better job of that. That's quite different than doesn't stand up for ... I have no heartburn with that message.

[Demsrule86]

363. That is not better. I have lots of heartburn and am done...just done...going to turn off the

TV when he speaks...honestly, he is not a Democrat and is constantly divisive...I can't deal with it anymore.

[alarimer]

276. Any criticism bashing, according to people here.

But the criticism in this case is valid.

[Demsrule86]

344. Maybe he should let Democrats concern themselves about the message which has nothing to do with him.

And the fact he was appearing at an our revolution rally seals the deal for me.He called our party weak too...well I am sure Nina loved that. I can't stand our revolution which supports Greens and Republicans but makes Democrats prove they are worthy of support. I am just done...voted for Bernie in 16, now I will turn off the TV when he comes on...I have no further interest.

[garybeck]

243. Bernie has done more for the democratic party that you think.

believe it or not, there are many people who are democrats but don't just blindly follow whatever the party does. we have minds of our own. we think it is a billion times better than the republican party. but we think the democratic party has some issues too. sometimes Bernie points them out. is that a sin?

bernie energized millions of people last election. many of them voted for hillary.

IMHO, the problem was not bernie. i think he helped hillary more than hurt her. if you are looking for someone to blame, blame the DNC who unfairly favored Hillary and you can also blame the russians who clearly affected the elections in many ways.

blaming bernie is saying "no" to a huge round of young people who are smart and they are tired of politics as usual.

[shenmue]

303. They didn't unfairly favor her. She paid their debt.

[Demsrule86]

338. Yeah....so energized...and we lost the election...hmm.

[stevenleser]

300. Why thats doing outreach on behalf of the Democratic Party dontchaknow?

Or so some folks upthread keep trying to fool us into believing anyway.

[mcar]

301. Well he is the DNC Outreach Chair

Doncha know.

[stevenleser]

302. Yup and apparently he thinks that means getting people to not support the party

As Yoda would say:

“Strange interpretation of the job, he has”

[Demsrule86]

339. God help us...because this sort of rally surely won't help at all in fact just the opposite.

[mcar]

357. I fear the same

Telling people Dems are bad, in the same speech where he is decrying Rs as well, gives a both sides do it impression.

[Demsrule86]

366. I want to win if this shit worked I could live with it...but all evidence points to the opposite

conclusion. It didn't work in 16, and it won't work in 18 or 20.

[R B Garr]

8. His quote directly says Democrats dont stand up for you.

That is his message.

[dalton99a]

10. Bernie Sanders is trying to depress Democratic turnout.

[R B Garr]

13. It is absolutely undeniable now. Actively smearing and

lying about Democrats. He is actively campaigning against Democrats. Many people have been hearing this since 2015.

[mcar]

26. I fear this, dalton

Not still trying to bring about the "Revolution?"

[JCanete]

67. Nope.

when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said. “Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

[SMC22307]

104. Horseshit. He's telling people to not vote for Republicans.

He couldn't be more clear.

[ehrnst]

398. Whoever smelt the horseshit dealt it

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)

[Cha]

12. Well isn't that just full

of Baloney.

[R B Garr]

15. Yes, It is very full of it.

There is no excuse for this tee’ing off on Democrats. Attack Republicans instead.

[Cha]

16. It's been going on

forever.. he's not going to stop.

[R B Garr]

17. He needs it to establish his brand.

He needs Democrats more than they need him.

[Cha]

18. And, it's so funny 'cause

he's acting like he wants nothing to do with any of us.

[R B Garr]

22. Yes, I have noticed him acting like that.

It is very noticeable. He has needed Democrats so very much.

[Cha]

24. And, of course, the feeling

is quite mutual.

[R B Garr]

41. Yes it is mutual. He has been insulated from this in his

echo chamber.

[Demsrule86]

345. My millenials don't even like him anymore. I am sorry I voted for him in Ohio. I liked both

candidates...the kids and I all went down and voted together...hubs was working. I became a Hillary supporter and worked for her even before the general as did my kids. The constant criticism of the Democratic Party turned me off. Now I am just done. I don't want to hear anything he has to say.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

65. If that's what his quote "directly says" then why don't you quote him "directly"?

Because that is not what he said.

[JCanete]

66. Nope.

"...when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said. “Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

[R B Garr]

100. Thanks for confirming that his message is undermining.

And that he can fix all the problems for us. That’s his message.

[JCanete]

109. he's promoting democrats in these races, and certainly not promoting republicans, given his

statement. He also thinks as it rings to me, that people should be looking to the democratic party to be the ones to step up and be supported.

It certainly is not that he can fix the problems. That's total bullshit Garr. He thinks he has the diagnosis. That is hardly the same thing. I think he's right about it. If no democrats thought he had a point he would not be relevant today. Some of us do.

[R B Garr]

169. His message is very divisive. It is hard not to take the man

at his word. He definitely maligns Democrats and it sounds condescending. This whole trashing is caring angle is not sustainable.

[JCanete]

216. the whole brushing shit under the rug angle and not acknowledging our party's

own failings as we try to call out the GOP on some of the same issues, has not been sustainable.

[R B Garr]

217. That is simply not accurate. This is really just a tired version

of the both-parties-are-the-same fable. It is a contrived and twice losing narrative. See Nader.

[JCanete]

219. no it isn't at all. sorry. That is simply not accurate.

[R B Garr]

221. If someone said you are out of touch and need help,

then they are insulting you. Trashing is not caring. Trashing is trashing.

[JCanete]

222. Sanders cannot honestly, with any modicum of credibility, advocate for the issues he advocates

for and pretend that the Democratic party has not dragged its feet on them while simultaneously taking it to the Republicans on these same issues. That would make him look like a total shill.

[R B Garr]

227. Why is Bernie against $20.00/ hr minimum wage??

How about $25.00/hr?! Is he against that? That is just a reference to how vapid it sounds to be for or against something with no frame of reference, false equivalencies or any other lack of consideration to practicalities, i.e., reality.

Being for things is the fun part. Like the test drive is always fun. The contract:financing part isn’t the fun part, but it has to be done. Someone has to bring it to that level of practicality. Like Randi Rhodes says, you can look at the Mercedes, but you’re not going to drive it home. Who doesn’t like Mercedes?

[JCanete]

232. This was hardly the crux of the complaints against the Democratic party. This was a matter

of Sanders advocating for 15 dollars an hour while Clinton was advocating for 12. I don't remember the attack ads or rhetoric about Clinton only advocating for 12. This was a legitimate policy disagreement. But absolutely Sanders, went further on every issue, which is what you need to do if you want to even get a compromise that looks like what Clinton was advocating for. And his proposals were hardly into the realm of fantasy. 15 dollars an hour, I don't care what part of the country you are from, is not unreasonable. Huge corporations have huge workforces at the minimum level of pay, which means if they put that money into the pockets of these locals they would have spending money and that would be good for the local economies.

Now if that makes those companies decide to pull out of an area because it isn't worth it, that simply opens the door for the small businesses to provide services that were killed off by these huge businesses. And yes, transitions can be painful...but these big corps are killing these little towns now, and then eventually shutting their doors when they've milked the communities dry.

[R B Garr]

234. No, wrong right off the top. Sanders demonized incrementalism,

Quit making this about the primary. His message is:was immediate gratification without any consideration to process. That is simply not believable and not sustainable to reject the reality of how our government works.

Now incrementalism is okay after all, but most are left with nothing. All or nothing usually results in nothing.

[JCanete]

235. Incrementalism in proposal, of fucking course! what do you have to negotiate with at that point?

What do you have to scare republicans with? You already made the worst case scenario the point of compromise? So why on earth should they?

[R B Garr]

236. I am talking about his messages that demonized Democrats.

Anyone can have lofty fun ideas and lead people on that they are being deprived. He is saying Democrats are not delivering and he is going to fix it. Yet he is now okay with incrementalism. Huh.

[JCanete]

253. What do you mean by he is okay with incrementalism? I don't know what you are

referring to specifically. Also, I disagree that he is saying he can fix anything. He is saying a collective "we" can. If you can find any quote where he says "I can fix it myself" I'd certainly love to see it. Otherwise, you are putting words in his mouth.

As to whether or not Democrats have delivered in the past, we have a troubled track record and we can't afford to have that. The nation cannot afford it at this point. The world can't afford it at this point. Some costs are permanent. If our track record has blemishes because that has simply been us responding to political realities and staying relevant, well I can understand the strategy as pragmatic to an extent, but its time we start questioning whether it has actually been pragmatic. Instead of moving the boundaries of those political realities left, we've often run to them as they have continued to move right. Republicans have not shied away from shaping public sentiment rather than running to it. And they've been winning.

[R B Garr]

265. Remember he was campaigning in Texas for Our Revolution??

That is a group in his image, so it’s quite a stretch now to say that they are responsible for his message when it is the other way around. He is the figurehead, and he is responsible for their messsge. You are the one putting words in his mouth if you now claim the Revolution is not about him or his campaign. Let’s stick with reality.

I doubt you are confused about his change in incrementalism.

And remember Nader?? His lies about Democrats split the vote, too.

At least the last part confirms what I said — which was a summary of what Bernie said. Like you, he is justifying denigrating Democrats because they need fixing. He is campaigning on fixing Democrats. You keep trying to make excuses for that to pretend it is a good message, but it’s just another smear.

[JCanete]

266. no, a smear implies inaccuracies. And unless you have some proof of lies, I'd stay away from

Last edited Mon Mar 12, 2018, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)

that kind of language. He is on message and recognizes that the Republicans are long gone, but that the Dems are who we are looking to step up and do the things that need to be done, but that they have too often not stepped up. He is recognizing dems in these races who he thinks have stepped up on those fronts(or more fairly, who he thinks indicate that they will step up), and should thus be supported.

No, I really have no idea what you're talking about regarding incrementalism, but I suspect that your own impression of about-facism here has more to do with a mangling of what Sanders and we mean by incrementalism when we are frustrated by it, which again, is not about what we can get done when we come to the table with Republicans, but about what we should be able to get done and to promote as democrats...as a party united on these issues who want to actually have something to pressure the GOP with so that they have some incentive to compromise.

That is hardly an attempt to suppress the vote, nor does it even come close to presenting an impression of both parties being the same. Please admit that. Then you can say he's still doing harm, and I can disagree with you, but at least admit that he isn't doing what you clearly have no proof of him doing.

I also don't know what your referring to at the beginning. If Our Revolution was born out of the Sanders run it still doesn't mean that Sanders is unilaterally going to change the Democratic party. It doesn't mean he can alone fix anything. It means that there are a lot of people who agree with him who are going to fight for those things. It means there are a great many democrats who want to fight for those things.

[R B Garr]

288. I have to laugh that you are trying this hard to explain away

his message and change it and water it down so much that he is now no longer about Sanders.

That says it all.

It’s s good thing you are not a spokesperson like Nina Turner who is very clear that the Revolution is about Sanders’ message.

The incrementalism was about double standards. You know exactly what went down there with the all-or-nothing promises.

This is getting stupidy repetitive.

[R B Garr]

306. You are full of the same thing. You are the one talking around

everything I’ve said to the point that your bullshit doesn’t even sound like Sanders. The Revolution is about Sanders and his campaign. You don’t get to make things up. Reality is what it is.

Your doublespeak is tiresome. I’ll interpret whatever the heck I want from what someone says. I’ve already directly said exactly what I mean. You are just angry you
can’t force your abstract opinions.

[JCanete]

307. My tone was over the top, my apologies. I don't see the doublespeak. If I thought

you were right about my own arguments, I would certainly try to reform them. I see you
making false accusations of hypocrisy for shifting from an all or nothing stance that has never existed. You cannot point to an example of it from Sanders. Some of his supporters, maybe. But you claim that is Sanders modus operandi, and it just doesn't bear the barest of scrutiny.

Feel free to interpret what the heck you want, but I wish you'd do it with the actual intent in mind, rather than simply what you want to have heard.

[R B Garr]

308. ffs, really?? I already said many posts back not to

make this about the primary.

I already said it’s about the double standards applied to Hillary.* She was demonized over $12/hr, but now he changed his tune. We’ve already been through that. Of course there are examples. Two effing years worth. Go Google the subject. Go read the primary forum. It’s absurd to have these inane exchanges when reality is completely ignored and distorted.

*actually, this is so far afield now. Bernie was in Texas campaigning for the Revolution and his condescending message about fixing the Democratic party is what I commented on. Trashing Democrats is not helping. Trashing is trashing.

[JCanete]

309. we both think the other person is doing that. You said that he is unilaterally going to fix stuff,

according to him. Yet, nowhere does he say that. I'd be very surprised if many if any of his supporters believe that.

Show me where it was the 12$ minimum wage in particular that Clinton was demonized over by Sanders. I certainly remember that being a point of disagreement. Is that the same thing?

[R B Garr]

310. His own words. You are the one trying to pretend his

message was not condescending.

If someone said you need fixing and you are out of touch, that is not a good thing. That is a negative thing. It is not a positive statement. Trashing is not caring, trashing is trashing.

Your double speak is tiresome. You know exactly the attacks on Hillary’s $12/hr proposal. Quit denying reality. This is beyond absurd.

[JCanete]

314. It is...but of course I acknowledge that Sanders has criticism for the Democratic party...no

Shit. Trashing is an entirely subjective measure though, and what you call trashing I might call being honest. So tough love is trashing to you in this context. Is it always? Recognize that if this comes down to whether or not you or I think he's being honest, then that is probably where our future arguments should focus, since we'll get nowhere unless we both agree about what we're debating.

two different questions need to be determined...

is honest criticism automatically trashing

is Sanders criticism fair or honest. Now we aren't going to agree on this second point, I'm almost positive. But if you don't state your terms about whether or not fair and honest criticism is allowable, then we're going to keep going back and forth about trashing versus constructive criticism.






But Sanders didn't say "the democrats have not stood up for you," as you declared.

"The Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,”

What he said is it hasn't STOOD AS STRONG as it should....

what he also said right there in black and white is "WE'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THAT" Not "I'm trying." Not "I'm going to change that."

And he certainly IS NOT saying give up on the Democratic party. He's saying get involved in it and help shape it. He certainly IS NOT saying vote republican. He IS saying give up on them.


No, I absolutely do not know exactly what attacks on Clinton for being in favor of a 12$ minimum wage you are referring to.

Here is Sanders own words on $12 dollars an hour during the debates:

"Now, in fact there is an effort, Patty Murray has introduced legislation for $12 minimum wage, that's good. I introduced legislation for $15 an hour minimum wage, which is better".

Is that trashing a $12 dollar minimum wage?

[R B Garr]

322. Your doublespeak is truly a marvel. Now you agree

he is trashing Democrats but before you said he wasn’t. It’s a good thing you aren’t his spokesman like Nina Turner who distills his message into the derogatory category like we all hear.

Trashing isn’t caring. If someone says you need fixing and you are out of touch, that is a derogatory self-serving comment. Those are negative comments. If you had a job reference, and they said you need fixing, that is derogatory. If they said you are out of touch, that is derogatory. That is not a good reference.

Of course you know the slams against Clinton. You just selectively quoted something without links. Your doublespeak is truly a marvel.

[Cha]

312. You start off with an insulting personal attack.. therefore

you have nothing to offer to the discussion.

It's a dead give away.

[JCanete]

313. read in context...things had not exactly kept an even keel, but for my part, I did apologize

for being way too bombastic and insulting. But thank you very much for your perspective!

[Cha]

315. Nope. with that insult to her.. you lose. End of discusson.

[JCanete]

316. then feel free to end the discussion already.

[Cha]

369. Oh, you did that with your personal

insulting attack.

[ehrnst]

320. In terms of Bullshit - whoever smelt it dealt it.

as the saying goes.

And your post illustrates it.

[Cha]

267. BS did the same thing in 2012 when he

thought it was a good idea to Primary President Obama.. he wanted to fix him.

the Democratic Party has so many wonderful dedicated people working for our Democracy.. we don't a fixer.

[JCanete]

287. First, he walked that back. Second, he didn't need to as far as I'm concerned. Our democrats

are better, not worse, for having challengers from the left. You have massive illusions about why the democratic party is as progressive as it is. You think it would be so without a vocal left. That's madness. That makes no sense.

[Cha]

294. No, BS didn't walk that back.. It was awful

though.

[ehrnst]

397. We are progressive because we are diverse and advocate for all.

When anyone who dismisses that advocacy as "identity politics" is not making us more progressive.

[ehrnst]

283. So he's said:

"the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country "

Does he mean that the Democrats were weak? Lazy? Incompetent?

Because it doesn't sure isn't saying we have been effective, strong or competent.

[SMC22307]

81. No, that's not what his quote says at all.

Perhaps work on your reading comprehension...

[R B Garr]

93. It says exactly that, and he says he is going to fix

it all. It’s not like this is the first time he’s done this.

[SMC22307]

95. The party "has not stood up AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD," WE'RE try to change that...

don't vote for Republicans, and let's get people who have given up on the political process to vote again -- THAT was his message.

I'm happy to see DUers pushing back against the bullshit twisting of his words. Geez, you'd think it's like Democrats controlled more than a measly six states or something. Trash the guy who's in freakin' deep red Texas trying to get people to vote for Democrats -- only on DU.

[R B Garr]

97. Thanks for confirming that he is saying Democrats are not

doing enough, but he’s going to fix it. His undermining message is very clear.

[SMC22307]

101. "We're trying to change that."

"We," not "he." You're doubling down the way Drumpf would, and it's bizarre.

Stating that the Democratic Party "has not stood up AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD for the working people of this country" is fact. You think those MASSIVE losses in recent years just happened on their own? Dems only fully controlling six states - an historic low - happened without reason?

You're trashing a guy who is trying to get folks to vote for Dems. Again, bizarre.

[R B Garr]

103. His own words. He is going to fix everything.

Democrats aren’t doing enough. Thanks for confirming again. Speaking of trashing—quit trashing Democrats.

[SMC22307]

107. "We're trying to change that."

Click your heels together a few more times and maybe it'll change into "I'm."

Democrats fully control only six states -- an historic low. If that's your idea of "doing enough," perhaps you should step aside while those of us who care about the party attempt to fix it.

[R B Garr]

167. The word games dont fool anyone. Are you not aware

that his Our Revolution group was started for his campaign? That is what he is promoting. His own words.

And the divisiveness looks familiar. Good Democrats told to stifle because we need fixing. LOL, so familiar.

[SMC22307]

177. 1,000 seats lost and full control of only six states.

You're in denial if you don't think something needs fixing.

[R B Garr]

212. Yet Our Revolution has a higher fail rate and they do not have any historic GOP

meddling to point to. The message is all they had, and it failed. So they are hardly the group to propose fixing anything. I notice anything that remotely goes outside the talking points is mocked. Gerrymandering is a huge historical scam by the GOP, but you only blame Democrats. Blaming Democrats is $$$$.

[JCanete]

218. well yeah, our revolution is in its infancy. It is builiding something. It very may well

ultimately fail, and that will be because the resistance to it is strong and the money remains powerful, or it may fail because once its case is truly heard(in a perfect world) by the American people it simply doesn't resonate.

Or it may succceed over time by getting its candidates elected in the primary and then in the GE, or more likely, and the way the left usually influences politics, it may succeed by pulling mainstream candidates to the left on some of these issues. The Sanders phenomenon has already had an impact on what our potential presidential candidates have commited to, in terms of certain policies and in terms of certain campaign finance choices. That is proof in the pudding, that this is how it works. It also succeeded in influencing the Democratic platform and Clinton's own.

Who is pretending gerrymandering isn't a factor? Of fucking course it is and I'm pretty sure progressives are aware of it...

Sanders tweet: Politicians who gerrymander districts to unfairly gain political advantages are undermining our democracy.

[R B Garr]

220. Unfortunately, a lot of the Sanders message is at cross purposes

with supporting Democrats. IOW, denigrating Democrats is a huge part of the message, hence his appearances saying he will fix things. He actually needs Democrats more than they need him. There are many great Democrats.

*phone typing errors...

[Demsrule86]

340. It will fail because of their tactics...promoting Greens and Republicans in some cases.

I despise our revolution and won't vote for any of their candidates in a primary...that is how much I dislike them and Nina Turner as well. I think they will hurt us not help us and that is their intention. Tear down the Democratic Party is what they want.

[Iggo]

215. Wow.

[George II]

14. Yes, of all places. I wonder, when was the last time he attended a rally in Vermont? Remember....

....he's running for re-election in that state this year.

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that"

Yes Sanders, you have believed that for a long time, but you've done precious little to change that. Is there a single specific thing he's done, not said?

[Cha]

19. I hope Beto wins in Texas.. a Democrat!

that would be so fantastic!

Oh, I'm sorry.. I forgot this was about BS bashing Dems.. this time in Lubbock, Texas.

That's what made me think of Beto.. much more interesting and exciting.

[mcar]

53. A Beto win would be huge!

[R B Garr]

20. Maybe this is why he doesnt run on his accomplishments

in Vermont? Instead opting for criticizing Democrats nationally.

[Snotcicles]

21. Thanks for posting. Bernie is still working hard for whats right. nt

[George II]

23. What has he done?

[shanny]

32. Well, for starters he's holding a rally in Lubbock TX.

Which the Democratic Party has apparently not done in "a long time, if ever."

[SidDithers]

39. Is he true blue or green?...nt

Sid

[Beartracks]

49. Dropping into deep Texas to personally rally liberals to...

... vote and be heard and push back... That's pretty damn inspiring.

I guess the naysayers will see come November if this kind of thing "depresses Democratic turnout" -- if they bother to remember their predictions here.

===========

[George II]

72. That's not true. The Lubbock County Democratic Party is very active and there have been several....

...rallies down there over the last year.

Re-read that sentence in the article, and check out their facebook page and website.

[shanny]

88. You re-read it. Here:

Progressives on the Panhandle/South Plains hadn’t had a politically rally like what took place Saturday afternoon at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center in a long time, if ever."

That's great that the Democratic Party has been having rallies: has it been working? Or could they use a boost?

[George II]

89. They actually are having an event this afternoon, and have scheduled one just about every week.

Last night's rally wasn't a Democratic rally.

[SMC22307]

112. They could use a boost.

People on this site seem to be in total denial that Democrats fully control only six states, which is an historic low. La-la-la-la... !

[George II]

134. So who was he rallying for in 70% republican Lubbock Texas?

[SMC22307]

156. This dude, running for county commissioner...

http://www.tgcaraway.com/about-t.g.html

That's pretty amazing, a BORING county commissioner race brings out a 1,000+ crowd thanks to Bernie (and Jim Hightower).

He was also rallying for those who support Medicare for All, tax reform for the middle class (not obscene giveaways to the wealthy), taking on Big Pharma, increasing the minimum wage, etc.

[George II]

163. Really? He was there campaigning for Caraway? Did he even mention him during his speech?

And since it was an Our Revolution rally, I went to the endorsement page on their website. They haven't endorsed him.

[SMC22307]

172. Um, that's Caraway directly behind Bernie on stage. LOL

You gonna try to convince us that Caraway spoke at an Our Revolution Texas event but wasn't endorsed by Our Revolution Texas?

The senator spoke at an event organized by Our Revolution Texas, a group that promotes progressive ideals. Sanders' speech followed talks from former Texas Department of Agriculture Commissioner Jim Hightower, former Ohio Senator Nina Turner and T.G. Caraway, who is running for Precinct 4 county commissioner.

http://kfyo.com/bernie-sanders-speaks-lubbock-texas-march-2018/

[George II]

184. Look at their website:

https://ourrevolution.com/candidates/

He's not there.

[SMC22307]

185. He spoke at their event. He's on stage with Bernie. LOL

Perhaps the website hasn't been updated, George.

[Demsrule86]

341. Oh I didn't realize since he didn't mention the candidate much.

[SMC22307]

464. LOL Those grapes must REALLY be sour now that...

SW PA swung BIG to a Democratic candidate who ran on an economic message VERY similar to Bernie's.

[Demsrule86]

477. Not at all...what you and others don't get is I just want to win period. And I don't see

Sen. Sanders as helpful in this area. I have no other ax to grind other then I want to those in leadership to support the party and Democrats. He doesn't do that...thus I don't care for him...but he is a Senator and caucuses with us so there is that.

[shanny]

382. +1

And apparently we shouldn't have rallies or say anything about our policies because that will only inflame the R base, and also there is No Such Thing as constructive criticism.

[Demsrule86]

351. Because such rallies serve no purpose...they merely bring out the GOP voters in opposition.

[napi21]

57. What's he done? In the 2016 campaign he brought A LOT of issues into the Dem platform.

Health care, free 2 year college tuition, etc. I don't know about since then because I've not been paying a lot of attention to individual Sentors--Conman's insane ideas and hourly lies consumes all my time.

Bernie isn't saying much about the Dems that we all haven't all said already. I'm happy to hear about his rallies. I wish all our other Senators would be out doing the same. If we're going to mount a BIG BLUE WAVEm we better get it going NOW!

[Demsrule86]

342. Democratic issues...and the junior college proposal was Hillary's.

He wanted free college with no income restrictions.

[JCanete]

68. this charge continues to be levied, and I've tried to address it over and over. Does messaging and

getting people to demand a different level of safety net and government free of collusion really do nothing? If you want to make that argument, I'm willing to have that debate, but until somebody quits skirting that question and actually says, "no, public awareness does nothing and this is why", I wish you'd dial back that particular line of attack.

[George II]

80. Those are nebulous intangibles. I can say that I messaged and got people to demand...

...a different level of programs, too. I've been active in my local Democratic Party for almost 20 years, and also active in the State Democratic Party.

I'm looking for things like voter registration, voter participation, etc. I recall a while back that at his rallies they didn't even set up voter registration tables in the lobby, but they complained that that was a DNC funtion! Wrong.

So, once again, other than the unmeasurable intangibles, what has he done? He's been a legislator for more than 25 years, what legislation has he written and gotten passed that will accomplish things like higher minimum wages, medicare for all, etc. etc.?

He's been talking the talk for years while others have been walking the walk.

[JCanete]

84. Well look, as to legislation, another thing I've addressed, if people get some things that

are good done, and some things that are bad done, how do you do the math on that? Do you just count accomplishments whether they set us back or forward? Do you subtract the bad from the good? What's your metric here?

Sanders has had little support from his colleagues on the issues he's been at the forefront of(ahead of the curve on in many cases) for decades. Should a lone voice in the wilderness just shut up, or go along to get along? He has, as a marginal congressperson and Senator, affected policies at the margins. He has withheld his vote when it was needed to get changes made. Why would you expect him to be able to get his agenda through a mostly unsympathetic congress?

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. Maybe he should be working hard for whats left...

rather than right. His behavior is odd. Makes me wonder what his goals are. He has been bashing Democrats and begging us to show support for Trump voters.

[Snotcicles]

33. Constructive criticisim isn't bashing and suggesting we win over our opponent isn't begging. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. You and I see it differently.

I have yet to see anything from him other than bashing. Certainly not constructive. And, what is he constructing? Another Russian win?

[Snotcicles]

50. Yeah, we do see it differently. nt

[R B Garr]

62. +1, it is just empty riffing. Who else does that...

looks familiar, hmm

[shanny]

29. +1

[Nevernose]

27. Bernie fighting Republicans and supporting Democrats

I can selectively quote from the article, too:

“Sanders ... gave the speech with a few local Democrats running in 2018 standing behind him. Holding signs at the back of the stage were Miguel Levario, running for Texas’ U.S. House District 19, candidates for County Commissioner T.G. Caraway in Precinct 4 and Nick Harpster in Precinct 2, and Texas House candidates Samantha Fields in District 84 and Ezekiel Barron in District 88.”

And then we have the responses from people who were actually there:

“Jimmy Moses of Lubbock said he believes half the battle for Democrats is getting voters to actually vote, so people like Sanders coming to speak are significant.

“Sanders kind of put the burden on us and said, look, if you want change then bring your friends, bring your family, or bring a few people to the polls,” Moses said. “The only way we’re going to change anything is if we go out and vote.”

J. Leon Williams, also of Lubbock, commended Sanders for coming to Lubbock. He said Democrats shouldn’t be afraid to speak up in conservative districts, and Sanders clearly isn’t.”

Bernie Sanders is popular among Democrats and remains so, and continues to try and get Democrats and liberals to vote and continues to go where most of the Democratic leadership thinks is a waste of time, talking to Democrats that have basically been ignored for the last two or three decades.

[George II]

30. But you didn't quote anything SANDERS said.

[Nevernose]

37. people in this state should not be voting Republican.

“I’m not here to tell you that I’m an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not,” Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. “This I do know — when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and you’ve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

There ya go.

Sanders is the perfect person to go somewhere like Lubbock and energize Democrats and liberals. If he keeps telling Democrats to go to the polls, we should probably just shut up and let him.

As one person actually there described it while he was quoting Sanders: “Sanders kind of put the burden on us and said, look, if you want change then bring your friends, bring your family, or bring a few people to the polls.”

[R B Garr]

40. It says he is promoting Our Revolution. Apparently they

have appointed themselves the clearinghouse for candidate purity. Typical all-or-nothing tactic that most often ends with nothing.

[George II]

47. Yes, he seems to be promoting "Our Revolution" more than the Democratic Party.

But Our Revolution endorsed candidates are running at about a 35% success rate.

[R B Garr]

55. Yes, it does look like third party promotion, which is just more

reason why he needs to riff on Democrats.

[TexasTowelie]

127. The entire event was about promoting "Our Revolution."

While the rally was free, they asked for $5 donations to "Our Revolution."

[George II]

130. So it was essentially an Our Revolution fundraiser. Interesting.

[R B Garr]

325. Looks like he is trying to take credit for the blue wave

in Texas by associating his face with it and promoting his group. Very opportunistic and superficial move.

[Beartracks]

34. Good points. Thx. n/t

[SMC22307]

43. The horror! Attendees appreciating Bernie having the nuts to wade into deep red territory and...

imploring people to vote for Democrats.

LOL My, how DU has changed.

[Kentonio]

31. Such an inspirational leader

Can’t wait to support him 100% in 2020.

[MrsCoffee]

35. Is that when he is retiring?

[R B Garr]

36. Hillary 2020! She won in spite of the nasty gratuitous

attacks on her from every angle. Now that is inspirational. Just parroting campaign lines without ever being challenged is not really inspirational.

[Kentonio]

268. Feel free to encourage your preferred candidate to run again.

Mine is Bernie, and I'll be fully supporting him if he chooses to run.

Have a nice day.

[R B Garr]

289. Why not, it makes as much sense. Hillary 2020.

[shenmue]

304. You lost

You'll lose again.

[Kentonio]

326. You want to talk about losing? Really?

[Demsrule86]

348. God No...we need fresh faces and what is Sen. Sanders 80?

[George II]

44. What has he done to "lead"?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

46. +1 inspirational and 100% correct

[redstatebluegirl]

38. I really hate that he has chosen to go after the party that allowed him to run.

[Snotcicles]

51. Would you rather he ran as an independent? nt

[redstatebluegirl]

56. I would rather he would stay in the Senate, and then retire.

[Demsrule86]

349. Yes. I doubt we would have lost had he run as an independent.

[aikoaiko]

52. I love that Bernie still speaks Truth to Power.

Thank you, Senator Sanders.

[ecstatic]

59. I wish he could sit down with someone and tweak his message

I'm not sure if he's capable of absorbing new information or not... from what I've seen, i think not... but he could simply rally on the principles that he thinks the party is lacking without attacking /criticizing the party. Instead, he could mention what the REPUBLICAN party has failed to do. It's not rocket science. Here's what he should have said:

“I’m not here to tell you that I’m an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not,” Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. “This I do know — when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and you’ve got a REPUBLICAN state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have REPUBLICAN Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

“I have believed for a long time that the REPUBLICAN Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said. “The democratic party speaks to the needs of working families. We should all take this message to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

[betsuni]

149. Correct.

But he doesn't listen. Such a shame, it's not rocket science.

[GaryCnf]

64. All of the folks who can't accept constructive

criticism and insist that we only lost because everyone who didn't vote for us is stupid or worse might consider that their attitude isn't getting us the numbers we need to win in Texas in the first place. Even with the excitement of a contested primary, we had less turnout among all of our candidates combined than f'ing Cruz got running against no one.

Maybe, just maybe, we need to be changing our behavior instead of preaching about how everyone but us needs to change theirs.

Or, we can always do nothing and spend years blaming Bernie.

[SammyWinstonJack]

92. +1000000.

[SMC22307]

115. Ugh, I didn't realize Texas primary turnout was so low!

That is REALLY depressing, considering it's Ted fucking Cruz we're talking about.

I hope my native PA delivers for Lamb.

Good post, BTW.

[GaryCnf]

118. YES on Connor Lamb n/t

[riversedge]

78. pic.....

Link to tweet

Our Revolution
‏Verified account @OurRevolution

Starting in 30 minutes: @ninaturner, @SenSanders, and @JimHightower live from Lubbock, Texas 📺 https://www.facebook.com/OurRevolutionTexas/ …
12:30 PM - 10 Mar 2018


https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/politics/article/Sanders-rallies-his-supporters-urging-continued-12742753.php?utm_campaign=fb-premium&utm_source=CMS+Sharing+Button&utm_medium=social

[SMC22307]

82. I'd pose that question to people on this board trashing Sanders.

"When was the last time any of you drew 1,300 people in Lubbock, Texas - a county Trump won with 67% of the vote?"

Posting on a message board isn't activism. What's everyone doing to actually GOTV?

[Demsrule86]

350. And why should anyone do that?

[BannonsLiver]

364. Great question

And one that leads me to believe PRESIDENT OBAMA must have never visited Lubbock.

[lapucelle]

110. I wonder if he'll be visiting Sierra Blanca while he's in Texas. N/T

[SMC22307]

136. Perhaps Sheila Jackson Lee and Bill Clinton will visit with him. (n/t)

[GaryCnf]

129. If you're NOT telling people in Texas

that you're changing the party, you're suppressing the Democratic vote. In case none of you caught it, BUSINESS AS USUAL isn't working for Democrats in Texas.

[NCTraveler]

135. Here is what is completely missed.

It isn’t about any connection to general election statistics. Sanders is campaigning to win primaries and he needs to do well in these areas.

[GaryCnf]

141. Talking to the people

Raging against the machine.

Sounds like a good strategy for ANY kind of election.

[NCTraveler]

144. Depends how they are perceived.

You just described Grayson.

[GaryCnf]

146. Also depends

On how the machine is perceived.

[Cha]

209. He's "outreaching" for

himself, then?

[Blue_true]

157. Why

Is Bernie's first instinct is to bash Democrats and treat them as the sole reason for every failure.

[Cha]

171. And, show these deplorables "respect"..

Link to tweet

[Blue_true]

188. The tweet that you attached by Justin Hendrix is how I feel.

We are the true majority by a large margin. We MUST crush Trump supporters at the polls, we must, for the sake of the country, rip control of government out of their hand in a way that it's clear they will never again influence the direction of government at any level.

[MineralMan]

166. If he's not actively supporting the Democrat who is

running against Ted Cruz in Texas, he's not helping. And he's not doing that. So...

[GaryCnf]

175. Believe it or not

Increasing voter enthusiasm helps win elections.

[GaryCnf]

178. And looking at primary turnout

Texas Democrats need fired up after decades of failures from the business as usual strategy.

[Cha]

183. Instead, he's bashing the Democratic

Party, in Lubbock, Texas, of all places.

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said.

[GaryCnf]

196. See post 129 n/t

[Cha]

198. No.

[SMC22307]

203. Then continue to enjoy the losses.

I won't.

[JNelson6563]

208. A shame he doesn't like O'Rourke.

Vote Dems! Yeah, can't bring myself to support the guy who could actually unseat Ted Cruz but yeah total team player, not a self promoter for his own party of one so don't even think that!1!

[Cha]

237. All you have are insults and personal attacks.

You think your insults are going to get you anywhere?

We have our opinions on what BS is doing there, and we are discussing them on a political board. Too bad if you don't like it. You're not going shut it down with your personal attacks.

[KTM]

239. Look in a mirror.

More than 4 out of 10 of our fellow Democrats supported this man and the ideas he represented in the last election and your message to them is a loud and in-your-face "fuck him and fuck you."

Good luck with that.

[Cha]

242. Read your own insulting, attack words.

"There is a lot of idiocy in this thread.

If the ignorance and "sour grapes" mentality of my fellow Democrats in this thread is representative of Democrats at large, we are fucked in the future"

No one has to fall in lockstep with your thought process. Millions of us have our own vision for our Country and the Planet..

You will not shut us down with your disingenuous attacks.

[KTM]

244. Likewise.

Millions of US do as well, and your millions and my millions are ostensibly on the same team - but you return here time after time to show off your middle finger to one side of the team specifically for not being in lockstep with you.

[Cha]

246. Whatever.. just stop your personal attacks.

[George II]

245. "More than 4 out of 10 of our fellow Democrats supported this man and the ideas he represented...

....in the last election"?

Sorry, I didn't realize he was in the last election. Did I miss something?

[Cha]

247. You're being paranoid.. stop putting words in

my mouth

[Cha]

292. I really think you need to follow

your own advice about "looking in the mirror".

[George II]

240. What specifically are you referring to? And who are you calling "idiots"?

Are you dissing people who work diligently WITH their local or state DEMOCRATIC Parties to promote Democrats?

[herding cats]

254. Why? Because Bernie is milking a state famous for supporting third party spoilers?

Do you know even the first thing about Texas politics? Look up Kinky Friedman... he’s an Uber leftist Texas spoiler used in multiple elections to break our state.

Texan Uber leftist are fucking dumber than a box of rocks sometimes and want to believe in rainbow unicorns and legal pot for everyone. It’s cost us more then one, or two elections to spoiler third party candidates. It’s a reality we mainstream Democrats understand here since we fight it every important election cycle.

Bernie is here working the soft minded amongst us. I’m not proud of him for exploiting them. This is why we aren’t yet purple here in Texas. We cannot keep the spoilers from breaking the damn state (and influencing our less than bright, idealistic voters) for their profit!

[Hortensis]

295. Wasn't familiar with Friedman politically. A real prize.

Sep 22, 2015 - On the eve of his new album, Friedman discusses why he thinks Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are the only honest candidates.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/kinky-friedman-talks-music-texas-and-a-trump-sanders-ticket-20150922

music.blog.mystatesman.com/.../kinky-friedman-likes-trump-jesus-rode-into-town-on...
Sep 23, 2016 - Kinky Friedman performed at Strange Brew in Austin Thursday night, and, after the show, said he preferred Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton for president.

The Algemeiner, March 2016: "Friedman tells me, describing himself as a “Democrat most of my life, and

definitely now an independent at best, and maybe a Republican.

” If that’s not fierce independence politically, I don’t know what is. ...

JNS: So whom are you backing in the presidential election?

Kinky Friedman: “I don’t know. Anybody would be better than what we’ve got. What we’ve got is Forrest Gump, and nobody could see it coming because we elected him kind of in an ‘American Idol’ type of situation. ... And the rest of the politicians of course…the only two that I know that are not corrupt that are running for president are [Donald] Trump and Bernie [Sanders]. And I think I support Bernie because I want to see a Jeeeeeeeeeeeeew in the White House. (Editor’s note: That isn’t a typo on “Jew.” That’s exactly how Kinky said it.) If he wins, it’ll be the first time a Jewish family ever moved into a place a black family moved out of.

This is depressing because this massively opinionated but fact-free negativism is so common. Obama dismissed as Forrest Gump, the entire Democratic Party dismissed as corrupt in favor of a not-corrupt independent and Donald Trump, the only ones.

I think we're all ODing on this go-low poison.

[herding cats]

296. Yeah, hes a real winner. I despise him to the core of being.

He’s always out for himself first. He’s foiled Texas’ elections while he campaigns to sell his most recent book. Every. Damn. Time. And people who wanted to believe his lunacy kept falling for it again and again.

The rhetoric of anger and hate of the establishment by people like him has poisoned political discussion in the minds too many people. It’s spread like a virus, replicating and evolving when needed to assure it’s continued survival and spread. I agree, it’s toxic.

[Hortensis]

297. Very well said. We all know this type and

their toxic effect on our nation. They are always with us. But the use of technology by those out to destroy our country by might explain why these toxic, de-spiriting messages seem to be everywhere now. They're being multiplied.

[herding cats]

311. The ones who need to hear will still not listen.

I’ve been trying to explain this to people since the late 90’s to early 00’s. Yet look where we are still today.

People want to believe in their version of reality, even if it’s been manipulated. Once they commit to it, some people cannot ever be forced back into reality. They’ve been Kinky Friedmanded for life.
They’re just sitting there waiting for the next incarnation to come along and “inspire” them to break another election.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[Hortensis]

317. 100%, except surely they were vulnerable

from the very beginning to messages of antigovernment contempt and disaffection that serve our nation's enemies, foreign and domestic both. This stuff does not resonate with most people and is rejected.

You're completely right about all of it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. And it's increasing in intensity and prevalence with microtargeting of messages directly to those vulnerable to them.

And look at their product. Like Kinky Friedman, whose attitudes are proudly hostile to 90% of America and our government and traditions. The party of anti-authoritarian liberalism is corrupt (everyone?!). Republicans might be okay after all. But at least he's identified two uncorrupt ones, bonding with one from the nationalist right and one from the more radical left. Huh?

Of course they're both populist leaders whose messages spread their own distrust and disrespect for our mainstream political institutions, plus to Trump's wing vast distrust and dislike of other peoples, and to the left wing a vast intolerance for all who don't agree with them. All messages useful for tearing our nation apart.

And of course those with inborn elevated tendencies to distrust and suspicion are only one useful type. Any group prone to disliking something about our liberal heritage of internal and external cooperation among peoples is vulnerable for turning into active opposition.

I imagine research would turn up a bunch of strategic spoiler candidacies, like this Kinky Friedman's, at all levels. How to purge mainstream values from city councils and school boards.

I wonder how much Hillary and those she spoke with were aware of when she first spoke of a vast right wing conspiracy. Technology facilitating this was already in place, but nothing compared to what's developed since.

Well, it's voting day, and this year Tuesdays are not happy days for these seditionists.

[CentralMass]

353. What 3rd party candidates ? Areyou saying this democrats that he is there supporting are 3rd party ?

[herding cats]

354. No.

That’s not what I said at all.

[CentralMass]

371. Then what are you saying. What is a 3rd party spoiler?

[herding cats]

372. First of all you missed half the conversation because their post was hidden

Second Bernie wasn’t there campaigning for anyone.

Run along and try someplace else.

[CentralMass]

374. The article cites 5 local candidate that were on stage with him.

"Sanders, who did not take questions from the media during his visit, gave the speech with a few local Democrats running in 2018 standing behind him. Holding signs at the back of the stage were Miguel Levario, running for Texas’ U.S. House District 19, candidates for County Commissioner T.G. Caraway in Precinct 4 and Nick Harpster in Precinct 2, and Texas House candidates Samantha Fields in District 84 and Ezekiel Barron in District 88.

T.G. Caraway, member of Our Revolution Texas, introduced the speakers and the candidates and tied the whole event back to local politics.

You can go "run along now"

[herding cats]

375. Again. You missed half the conversation. Thats not what we were talking about.

Seriously, get over the fact that you were too late and they were hidden. Ok?

[CentralMass]

376. Nice dodge. Well with my set of facts, Sanders was there with 5 Democrats running for local offices.

If you want to enighten on why I am wrong and why you think Sanders was there promoting 3rd party spoliers, i am open to being educated on the matter.

[herding cats]

377. I never said that about Bernie.

Never, not once. Just stop you’re looking silly. That’s not what the hidden poster was saying. Not even close.

[CentralMass]

379. I stand corrected. You said "Bernie is milking a state famous for supporting third party spoilers?"

I ask this because as a Democrat I think I'm missing something here.

What was he milking there ? This was an event promoting Democrats running for office.

Among a slew of progressive talking points he made this statement.

“I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country — we’re trying to change that,” Sanders said. “Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.”

What was the issue with this event.

[herding cats]

380. Ok, I agree, youre missing something here.

You keep trying to change your argument just to find a point to argue with me. I just don’t play that game.

This conversation is as useless as tits on a bore hog.

Have a great night!

[CentralMass]

383. Well, we clearly won t change opinions. His visit was on his FB

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1701311916590472&id=124955570892789

[herding cats]

384. .

https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/posts/1701311916590472

Saw that. Mentioned it here. Not seeing your point.

[herding cats]

385. Ok, I am so sorry, but this just is not working out for me...

I’m going to have to be the adult here.

People like you could make people like me not support people I should. So, I’m going to have to stop seeing you. Trust me, it’s me and not you. We’re breaking up because this relationship is toxic for me. I don’t want you to think this was about you. We just weren’t a match.

I’ll remember you. 😢

[George II]

427. Yes, his visit was on his FB. Here's what it says:

"Bernie will be in Lubbock, Texas tomorrow for a rally in support of comprehensive immigration reform, the need for a Medicare for all health care system, and the importance of electing progressives across the country. We hope you can all join us!"

and....

"Bernie Sanders Coming to Lubbock for Our Revolution Texas
U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders is scheduled to speak in Lubbock on March 10 at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center"

Not a SINGLE word about the Democratic Party, the Democratic candidates, or Democrats in general. Not ONE.

He was there to promote Our Revolution. Period. And if you look through the comments, many of them were not very positive about his being there.

[George II]

394. It was an Our Revolution event, promoting Our revolution....

....they were soliciting contributions to Our Revolution, not the Democratic Party.

[George II]

412. Issues with the event?

First, rather than being held in conjunction with the local Democratic Party, it was an Our Revolution event

Second, generally when "Democratic" events are held the organizers solicit contributions for the Democratic Party. This event solicited contributions for Our Revolution only, not the Democratic Party

Third, you highlighted it above - almost out of the box Sanders began making negative comments about the Democratic Party.

If he was there to encourage people to get out and vote for Democrats, telling them that "Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people" sure isn't the way to do it.

[herding cats]

378. Um, read my other posts in this sub thread.

It’s obvious the discussion was about the less than bright extremist in Texas who keep VOTING third party and costing us elections here. I’m talking about Texas politics... and how folks love to come here and raise money then trash talk us after they’ve cashed the check. It had zero to do with Bernie campaigning for anyone. Hell, I didn’t know he was since his FB never made mention of it.

Now run along and find some other person to attempt to put words in their mouth because you saw half of a conversation and wanted it to be what you thought.

[CentralMass]

386. I had communication with the owner of this hidden post. You are being disingenuous. The facts arel

clear.

[herding cats]

387. Dude thats too creepy.

I mean, seriously... look at what your’re saying. I don’t know you, and I don’t even know what the username was of the person whose post was hidden.

You’re way too invested in something I don’t care about.

[CentralMass]

390. The article linked in the post has all of this information

There is was no 3rd Party promotion oif any sort. Sanders was there with Democrats promoting Democrats and a progressive agenda.

[herding cats]

391. Dude, what in the hell are on about!?

I’m speaking of Texas politics I have no fucking idea what you’re on about.

Creepy. As. Fuck.

[George II]

392. It was an "Our Revolution" rally/promotion. That's neither Democratic nor republican....

..the remaining option?

[herding cats]

393. My final reply to you.

The admin can see what’s in the hidden post and decide the context of my (not hidden) posts.

With that I wish you a goodnight, and I say goodbye to you. I find your style of discourse too volatile and borderline toxic for my personal tastes.

Good bye.

[ehrnst]

396. If you attack any more strawmen, we're going to need a bigger bale....

[herding cats]

388. Is this like a drunk text to the person who broke up with you?

Because it really has that feel. I don’t know you, or the person whose post was hidden. I don’t even remember their name except it began with a K. That’s all I got here and you’re both so deeply invested in me. It’s odd, to say the least.

[Cha]

395. Rofl

lol.. omg!

[betsuni]

400. Well, "the facts arel clear."

There has been communication.

[Cha]

453. Prescisely,

betsuni! Rofl!

[ehrnst]

401. Had communication....

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)

Passing notes at recess?

Maybe about what to say to that mean kid who you think got your friend in trouble?

[betsuni]

406. "I had communication with the owner of that hidden post."

This is so funny!

[LexVegas]

257. ...

[David__77]

259. Its ultra-factionalism.

There are plenty of Democrats not sharing that perspective, including leaders.

[herding cats]

260. In Texas?

Just curious what actual knowledge you have of the same state Bernie admits to knowing nothing about?

P.S. It’s my state and I do actually know it.

[herding cats]

263. Bernie said he knew nothing about Texas.

So, do you?

Because if you don’t know more than he does, get out of my house. I know here, I live here. I’ve done all the hard work and lived the difficult life to try to effect change.

If you’re not as invested as I am, the odds are you don’t know how things are here. That’s just a fact. All politics are local. But, people still want to grade it on their personal moral compass. Which I kind of understand, but doesn’t work in other people’s daily lives.

Everyone else, doesn’t necessarily think like you do. I’m sorry, I know that sucks, and I agree. Yet, that’s still the reality most of us fighting in red states are dealing with.

It’s just the facts. I feel like I should apologize to you, but I also feel like you should have already been listening to us here.

We’re more alike than we are different. But, there is only so much give we here in the red states can can honestly expect to happen. Reality sucks, but it is what it is.

We’re all about wanting to compromise and find common ground in red states. We need our Democratic partners to extend a hand and get us elected so we can have a majority.

Oh, and even then things aren’t as leftist as we’d all like. Reminder: Trump was just elected. Hate has a huge hand in modern politics.

[betsuni]

264. "Sour grapes" about what?

[yardwork]

269. Thank you for articulating the ways that Bernie Sanders is endangering the country.

I think your point about sour grapes is particularly relevant.

[ehrnst]

273. It think your posts support that observation. (nt)

[herding cats]

255. Oh, yay. Just what Texas needs another extreme leftist spoiler to break the ballot.

It happens every damn election cycle because Texas is a cash cow.

Now, I understand us having to deal with local third party spoilers trying to divide the party. It’s a sort of a Texas tradition around these parts, but I have zero intentions on tolerating Bernie Sanders from Vermont coming in here to milk money for his campaign at the expense of decades of work of myself and my peers. He’s never been a part of our politics, and as he says he doesn’t understand them. So, shoo! Before you mess things up for those of us who are active here!

At least he stayed in Lubbock and didn’t try and infiltrate any of our liberal bastions. But, it’s obvious he was trying to dip into our money pool. So, typical. I’m sick of politicians not knowing we’re here until they see a dollar sign. 😡

[ucrdem]

261. Bernie's "brand" is his perpetually fickle swing vote.

Maybe he'll support us, but maybe he won't, and maybe he'll require a shrubbery. Every Democrat who wins a seat in the Senate diminishes the value of his brand. It's that simple.

[alarimer]

275. Good.

He is 100% correct about the Democratic Party. They have ignored Texas for too long. Do you think Texas would be as red as it is if the Democrats (national party I mean) not been "keeping their powder dry" and not even trying?

And he is right about trying to engage folks who have given up. THOSE are the reachable ones.

But go on, please bash Bernie some more for doing something national Democrats have been refusing to do.

[MuseRider]

277. I love this!

He energized Kansas Democrats last year with several appearances.

Thank goodness the rest of the county is not DU. Here in my red state I have never heard a bad comment about him among the people.

Let the haters hate and know he is making a huge difference. Are there legitimate questions he should answer should he decide to run again for POTUS? Yes. We can cross that if that happens, for now he is doing exactly what the Democrats have needed for a very long time. He is making a difference FOR a party he does not belong to. Hate away. It just makes no sense at all to me.

Go Bernie and thank you.

[jalan48]

373. Thank you Senator Sanders. Well done!

[bluedigger]

450. U.S. Sen. Sanders rallies in Lubbock of all places

Progressives on the Panhandle/South Plains hadn’t had a politically rally like what took place Saturday afternoon at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center in a long time, if ever.

It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution, a grassroots organization built on continuing the policy messages of U.S. Senator and former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. Our Revolution must truly be taking this message everywhere, because 66 percent of Lubbock County voted for President Donald Trump in 2016. And 66 percent for a Republican candidate in West Texas is on the low side in recent years.

...

“I’m not here to tell you that I’m an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not,” Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. “This I do know — when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and you’ve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.”

Sanders did his best to draw comparisons between his home state and West Texas, saying there are working families all over the country trying to make a living despite battling low wages, high healthcare costs, the high cost of prescription drugs and suffocating student loan debt. Sanders lightly said the big differences between the two states are the hats and the weather, as snow is melting in Vermont.

http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/20180310/us-sen-sanders-rallies-in-lubbock-of-all-places

It's not that hard to edit without being inflammatory.

[Demsrule86]

452. Last night's election shows how futile this is...run candidates who fit the district.

And don't criticize the Democratic Party. We win.

[Mountain Mule]

454. This is why Democrats lose elections

Quoting excerpts of a story by some half witted reporter in Lubbock - a quasi journalist pulling out the stops for the amusement of his fellow members of Cult 45.

I'm not interested in giving the deplorables the time of day, never mind quoting their drivel to spur infighting and divisiveness among friends.

We should be celebrating Lamb's win and discussing how we are going to keep up the momentum for the coming midterms. The repugs always sit up in delight and give all sorts of notice to party divides on the opposing side.

Who do you want to win in 2020? Bernie? Hillary? Joe Kennedy III? Czar Trump?

I want the DEMOCRATS to win. The endless infighting around here brings me down on what should be a great day for we Dems - Lamb's amazing victory in PA's red 18th district and our young folk expressing themselves with their protests against the NRA and against the indifference of our elected leaders toward making a change and saving hundreds, if not thousands of lives.

So Bernie held a rally in Lubbock. Good for him! Who else around here did something today to help the Democratic cause? (Quoting a third rate hack for a yellow rag in Lubbock doesn't count).