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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo those still worried about offending Trump supporters because you're hoping to get the to vote Dem
A couple of points -
First, i don't trust anyone who voted for Trump because I don't buy the "they're not racist - they're just economically insecure" excuse since being economically insecure didn't drive other people - especially black and brown ones - to vote for him, so claim that doesn't have much credibility. But even though I didn't trust them, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in case they were just clueless or not really paying attention.
But if 14 months later, after the president has done everything short of donning a white hood and marching around a burning cross on the White House lawn, anyone still supports this man, they have proven that they either are perfectly content to have bigots running the country or are bigots themselves. Period. And, as such, they are actively undermining me, my people, my community and my country. That should not only be a deal breaker, it should be a clear signal to us that they are not going to vote Democratic, no matter how much we kiss their ignorant, sorry asses.
Second, you should know that your entreaties not to offend these people is offensive to people like me who make up a large segment of the Democratic base. It is offensive to see our fellow Democrats more concerned about the sensibilities of stupid bigots than ours. It is offensive that you ignore our feelings and concerns while wringing your hands over theirs.
So, please hear this. I don't care if they're offended. I don't care if they never vote Democratic (which they're not going to do anyway). I don't care if we drive them away - in fact, I want them stay far away from me and my party. I. Dont. Care.
But I DO care that people who are on our side don't care that, with each "Everyone who voted for Trump isn't racist, you know" and "Oh, great - keep insulting them. That's a great way to convince them to vote Democratic" and "That may be true, but don't say it because you might offend them", you are kicking your black and brown and other allies in the teeth. Telling us to be nice to people who represent an existential threat to us is insulting and offensive.
Please consider this the next time you tell us to mind our manners around these people or to sit by quietly while you chase after them.
LexVegas
(6,120 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts).....
spicysista
(1,663 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,666 posts)Hulk
(6,699 posts)I have zero respect for anyone who is complicit with this ego maniac, treasonous, greedy, lying, insulting pile of smelly human waste.
You're right...if the don't have their head screwed on straight by now...THEY are just as disgusting and DEPLORABLE as he is.
Gothmog
(145,722 posts)You can NOT hope to change theses idiots or get their votes
Tikki
(14,560 posts)I don't know many of them, though.
Tikkj
Me.
(35,454 posts)+1
BeyondGeography
(39,388 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Maybe you should have actually read the whole story before posting it:
Lamb conceded that the presidents appearances likely had improved voter turnout but also said voters in his district had tired of the type of vitriol that has been a hallmark of Trumps campaigning style long before Air Force One touched down in Southwestern Pennsylvania.
There was a lot of foolishness in this election and a lot of really cartoonish campaigning. And I think by the time of the president's visit last weekend, people were kind of tired of that entire approach, Lamb said. I mean, I had people, especially elderly people coming up to me almost every day and just saying, man, I hate those ads against you. It's not right. It's not worthy of us. And so I think there was just a little bit of burnout on that type of campaigning before the president ever got here.
Sounds like these people are FORMER Trump supporters
Snark fail ... But by all means, continue going out of your way to try to defend Trump supporters from the horrific possibility that a fellow Democrat might criticize them. You're simply proving my point.
BeyondGeography
(39,388 posts)The answer is in the first paragraph.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I have no problem with "winning some Trump voters." More power to them if they see the light and decide to vote Democratic. But I'm not going to sit quietly by while black and brown and other critical segments of the Democratic base are stepped over and ignored while Democrats put time and energy and resources into actively recruiting these people. And I especially will not tolerate being told to shut up and not offend the people who are so offensive and damaging to us.
I've told you every whichaway that it is deeply offensive to be told that we reach out to Trump supporters, but you continue to do it. Why do you care so much about not offending voters who align themselves with bigots but seem to give a shit whether you offend minorities in your own party?
BeyondGeography
(39,388 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,388 posts)for doubling down on deplorable-speak and you take that (wrongly) to mean that they think racist Trump voters should be coddled. I get it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Wow.
Let me try one more time to break it down to you.
1. This OP has nothing to do with Hillary.
2. I believe that anyone who still supports Trump at this stage of the game (as opposed to a Trump voter since someone who voted for Trump in 2016 is not necessarily a Trump supporter now) is either a bigot or doesn't care that the country is in the hands of bigots.
3. I do not believe the Democratic Party should be going out of its way to court the votes of bigots or their enablers.
4. I do not care whether bigots are offended by anything I have to say about them.
5. I am offended by people who tell me that I shouldn't say things that offend bigots because that might make them less likely to vote Democratic.
6. i am also deeply offended by Democrats who are more concerned about protecting Republican bigots from being offended than whether I, an African-American Democratic ally, is offended by their concern for Republican bigots.
Got it?
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,163 posts)But those people behind him at rallys are proud racists. No two ways about it.
P.S. I took a survey tonight from Keith Ellison. Countless issues that are vital. Trump issues counter every one on the list. Every one.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,510 posts)Points 2 and 3 should be sufficient for anybody paying any attention at all.
4 is liberating.
5 and 6 are cringe-worthy. My blood pressure does bad things every time I read some comment whining about not being able to win elections if we don't coddle and cuddle the Trumpanzees.
I'm surrounded by the shit-fer-brains! Facts do not matter to them; their prejudices rule them.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)Let's keep it that way.
A high profile Democrat belittling and insulting them will drive them to the polls.
Conor Lamb is a smart attorney. He knows when to keep his mouth shut. I saw his poker face this morning when some news person was trying to bait him.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But I'll be damned if I let you or anybody else tell ME that I'M not supposed to say something because a racist or someone too stupid not to know they are entangled with blatant racists might be offended.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)yet on this site, on THIS SITE your OP should receive ONLY positive support.
ONLY
obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)Not.
Cha
(297,870 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Since this piece proved my point.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)Docreed2003
(16,887 posts)JI7
(89,281 posts)"muslims need to speak out ......................"
etc etc .
these trump voting bigots refer to NFL as "N------- for Life" and we are supposed to feel sorry for them and worry about offending them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)like babies whenever someone suggests that they believe they're just like them. And some Democrats defend THEM and accuse US of unfairly characterizing them.
If you vote with bigots and defend bigots and line up beside bigots, you run the risk of someone assuming that you, too, are a bigot. It's the risk you take. Shut up and deal with it because it's your own damned fault.
The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)Dog forbid any white people are forced to say or do anything even a little discomforting.
We are supposed to be pampered and enticed - telling us unflattering truths will never be tolerated.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)is easy for some of us to always think it is you black folk who need to be doing something.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)unblock
(52,399 posts)These idiots are hellbent on destroying America.
Im not going to entertain the notion that its reasonable to still support this lunatic.
Even the most ardent republican perhaps *especially* the most ardent republican should be embarrassed by and disappointed with Donnie.
Surely they should figure any other republican would make a better president.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Like my mother-- she will vote for any GOP candidate. She would far rather have had Bush or Rubio or anyone, but if Trump was going to be the nominee, she'd vote for him.
I wouldn't bother trying to convert her either. She's not nuts, she's just GOP. I don't know when she'll decide the party has gotten too crazy-- maybe never.
unblock
(52,399 posts)ridicule. Thats the only thing that could conceivably snap them out of it.
As long as it sounds like a normal political debate, theyll always go republican.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,178 posts)In Canada its the Conservatives. My dad died 10 years ago, but she still dutifully votes Conservative. In a way for him.
I think its less about which party, or even which candidate has better policies, if they bothered to read them. Its not about what some liberal media host says about Republicans. Or even what a Fox News host says about a liberal/Democrat. It goes further back than when Right Wing hate media got so dominant, even though that is a big force for the right today. No, its more that they have convinced themselves that GOOD people vote Republican/Conservative and BAD people vote Democrat. Simple as that.
How do you force a person to confront the truth about who and what they are actually voting for when its a matter of good vs evil to them?
Atticus
(15,124 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,268 posts)but I will herewith.
You are spot 150% on.
I already delivered myself from one [sadly, rabid] longtime acquaintance, and am in the process of keeping my distance from another neighbor currently.
I was patient with the former, suffering offenses when we had 8 glorious years of Barack. Now shoe's on thee other foot. I will not abide any further dumping on Dems, lies, propaganda, etc.
It's almost an analogy to the topic of religion/faith. The more you hound someone with it, the further in they dig their heels in opposition. Well, mine are now dug way in.
I will set 'by example' my Democratic stance, ideology, and heritage by actions. Living my life accordingly.
Thanx for your words.
~sprink
🇺🇸🌊
brer cat
(24,629 posts)Amen x 1000!
hurple
(1,307 posts)I have seen on here in ages.
Great job!
Eyeball_Kid
(7,437 posts)Elections are normally won at the margins. There's a large percentage of voters in either political party who won't be moved to vote differently than they usually do. Opposition campaigns shouldn't be going after them. They need to go after the voters on the margins, the ones who are malleable. That's where the elections are won.
You turn their malleability into your strength. In today's world you find the emotional lever than will persuade them to pull the polling lever in your favor. Logic won't do it and never will.
It's surprising so far that the nation's domestic counterintelligence service hasn't begun a negative narrative on Vladimir Putin. It's really needed. Right now. Putin won't show his true intent until he's knocking at your door.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)There are plenty of other voters we can be going after without having to chase around after the racist vote.
But that said, I'm not sure if I fully agree with that. Malleable voters are unreliable. Malleable voters in this day and age, when the choices are so stark and clear, are either not very bright or are very confused - and can just as easily be swayed the other way at any time.
mythology
(9,527 posts)You are blatantly misstating the argument by conflating economic insecurity faced by people who are the working poor who primarily vote Democratic and the economically insecure middle class who are seeing their jobs in factories go away (largely due to automation not outsourcing). I don't know if that's because you don't understand the difference or if it's because you don't want to understand the difference because you only care about being "right"
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stop-saying-trumps-win-had-nothing-to-do-with-economics/
The role of economic anxiety becomes even clearer in the data once you control for race. Black and Hispanic Americans tend both to be poorer and to face worse economic prospects than non-Hispanic whites, but they also had strong non-economic reasons to vote against Trump, who had a history of making racist comments. Factoring in the strong opposition to Trump among most racial and ethnic minorities, Trump significantly outperformed Romney in counties where residents had lower credit scores and in counties where more men have stopped working.
The list goes on: More subprime loans? More Trump support. More residents receiving disability payments? More Trump support. Lower earnings among full-time workers? More Trump support. Trump Country, as my colleague Andrew Flowers described it shortly after the election, isnt the part of America where people are in the worst financial shape; its the part of America where their economic prospects are on the steepest decline.
Pretending like economics and the rise of far right parties/candidates are unrelated is nothing more than ignoring history. Do you think everybody in Germany became anti-Semitic overnight and stopped being anti-Semitic in 1945? Economic fears and anxieties cause people to do stupid things. Yes, some of those things manifest as racist actions, but a deeper level understanding of human psychology and human history shows those feelings that are driven by specific circumstances are not actually immutable, unlike your reasoning.
http://harvardpolitics.com/world/rise-of-far-right/
Europeans have been facing economic crisis since 2009, when interest rates on government bonds in Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland skyrocketed. Economies were crumbling, debts were growing, and many welfare systems were not sustainable. Although the European Union has worked to subdue the economic crisis by implementing financial support mechanisms, by writing off debt and providing emergency loans, another banking crisis may be on the horizon in Italy. In an interview with the HPR, Dr. Daphne Halikiopoulou, associate professor in comparative politics at the University of Reading who specializes in research on radical nationalism, stated that the financial insecurity from the economic crisis has caused both working and middle class Europeans to be concerned with unemployment, salary cuts, welfare access, pensions, and access to health care.
You say you don't care about convincing anybody else that you're right. I agree, you absolutely don't, which is why you can't be bothered to know the argument you think you're tearing down. Instead it's easy to post a diatribe that anybody who disagrees with you is kicking you in the teeth. The irony being that's more or less the same argument people like Trump use to convince people that Democrats are bad. Seriously go read Trump's inaugural address. It's full of claims that Washington elites don't care about the average person, that the average person has been attacked by the government. No room for compromise, no room for mercy, no room for change or betterment.
In 2008 Rob Portman strongly opposed same sex marriage, in 2013 Rob Portman became the first Republican Senator to support same sex marriage after his son came out to him as gay. Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK but changed. Daryl Davis, a black man, has gotten 200+ members of the KKK to quit, including at least one imperial wizard (Roger Kelly). But sure, pretend that people can't change. That a racist can't change. You just have to ignore history.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)If economic insecurity were really the primary driving force that led people to vote for Donald Trump, it would have also driven black and brown voters - who are just as economically insecure as, if not more than white voters - to vote for Trump in larger, if not equivalent numbers. The fact that they didn't suggests that another factor was at play. What do YOU think caused the stark racial divide in the voting pattern?
As for politicians changing their stripes, yes it happens. Rob Portman suddenly decided to be pro-gay rights when it affected him personally. But funny thing - it didn't stop him from throwing his full support behind the most anti-gay administration in decades - so much for that. And his newfound concern for gay rights didn't translate into empathy or concern for any other marginalized group, so I'm not impressed by his conversion.
And yes, racists can change. I know some who have, including family members. But that's neither here nor there. The Democratic Party has limited time and resources and I don't think it should spend them going out of trying to get racist Trump supporters to see the light under the excuse of generating more votes for Democrats. There are plenty of untapped surething Democratic votes we can get without chasing around after bigots and their enablers, hoping they'll come around and vote right on election day. We need to focus on those -
notwithstanding the bullshit argument that reaching out to THEM is "identity politics" that we must stay away from.
I'm all for the Daryl Davises of the world reaching out to and trying to change the hearts and minds of racists. But that's not the role of a political party in an election cycle.
Finally, if you really believe that my refusal to embrace and coddle racists is the equivalent Trump's racist demagoguery of exclusion and hatred, well . . .
radius777
(3,635 posts)to Jim Crow - that poor whites' racism/sexism/etc was rooted in economic hardship.
So blacks hung from trees and women got coat-hanger abortions while the white man got a New Deal.
To me, you either stand for human rights or you dont, regardless of economics.
There shouldn't be a need to "bribe" whites to support the rights of women, immigrants, PoC, LGBTQ, etc - it should simply be the morally correct thing to do.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)about economic insecurity EVERY fucking time.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)for their "economic decline" but themselves. These are the people who who used to work in factories in the United States. But they wanted cheap goods. They wanted cheap washing machines, they wanted cheap TVs, they wanted cheap tube socks etc. So they started buying everything at Walmart, where things were cheap, both in price and quality. They loved it! More money in their pockets, right?
Well the years went by and Walmart couldn't get those goods "made in the U.S.A" at a price they deemed low enough to make huge profits and feed Americans' craving for cheap products. American factories tried to keep prices down by freezing wages, laying people off, cutting benefits, using inferior raw materials etc. but still couldn't meet the price point Walmart demanded. So Walmart started looking elsewhere. Lo and behold, Walmart found Chinese companies, Indian companies, Mexican companies etc. where there were no labor laws, workers earned pennies on the dollar of American workers, there were no pollution laws......Walmart was overjoyed! And Americans still had their cheap products. But now American companies that used to make those products here could no longer compete with the influx of cheap foreign-made products. More people were laid off. Factories began to close. The government would extend their unemployment benefits as long as they possibly could, until Republicans started calling that a form of welfare. Benefits were reduced because the rich didn't want to pay their fair share of taxes to make these benefits possible. More factories closed, more people became unemployed. Now, the only place these people can afford to shop is Walmart, or not shop at all.
American greed was passed down from the wealthy class to the working class, only the wealthy still owned the factories located in China, India, Mexico etc. etc. etc. but the working class, who really loved their taste of the greed pie, were without a job. Their taste of greed was short lived, and it led directly to being poor, or lower middle class; something they had never encountered before. But they wouldn't shop at the Mom and Pop stores anymore. They loved their greed pie! But now the pie was gone. Only the wealthy got to eat greed pie again. In fact they ate so much greed pie they started buying politicians to make sure they never ran out of greed pie. More laws were passed by their politicians to protect them from ever running out of greed pie. But the people on the bottom, the people who loved those cheap products, are now shit out of luck. Those factories are never coming back to the U.S. because the wealthy have passed so many laws to protect their greed pie. Americans gave their jobs away, and it was their own fault. They got greedy. They wanted to save $1 on a pack of six tube socks. They never realized the "high price of low prices". And now they're fucked.
Of course you'll never convince them that they share a great part of the blame for their predicament. It's a lot easier to blame Mexicans. It's a lot easier to blame "Libtards". These are people who love "economy in thinking", and they'd never look at themselves in the mirror and put one and one together. It's always easier to blame someone else for their "misfortune", a "misfortune" that 75% of the world's population would risk dying for to have.
So no, I don't feel sorry for them. Until a time when they start pointing their fingers in the correct direction, fuck 'em. Sorry.
sprinkleeninow
(20,268 posts)Truth what you stated.
Did you write the same in another post?
The dummies brought it upon their own heads and now shift the blame to those dirty Dems.
These people have no thought processes of cause and effect.
How in hell did this happen....[rhetorical].
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)this has been kicking around in my head for years. I imagine I "borrowed" bits and pieces from other people, but the seed of this was planted way back during the Reagan years. It didn't take a clairvoyant to see what was happening, but so many people were just so caught up in the cheap facade of prosperity they never bothered to look behind the facade to see what was actually going on.
It's been different iterations of the same old story since then. Most Americans have never been able to be satisfied. It's always 'more', 'better', but when you finally see that's a trap, when you can finally see for yourself that you have 'enough', and that chasing the "American Dream" is a path that never ends, just be satisfied. Get off the Merry-Go-Round. The freedom that goes with that simple realization is amazing. Greed is a killer. Literally.
Thanks for the kind words. GOTV!
sprinkleeninow
(20,268 posts)More isn't always better unless it's buttery, creamy mashed potatoes or a double scoop ice cream cone!
The Western mentality has been to accumulate stuff even if not needed or necessary.
Heaven knows our 'unit' is guilty as charged.
My maternal grandparents emigrated from the Carpathian Mountains area of now Slovakia and Grandmother had mismatched dishes. They were happy as a clam!
My mom got worse with this materialism trap, an' me, her pride and joy, goes off the rails at times. Guilty as charged.
My Tradition of Faith is to deny oneself as best as possible. Be selfless in your walk, but generous with others.
It's pleasing to have nice things and everything you can get your hands on especially at 'bargains'.
I hope we can reverse some of the damage inflicted. Especially for our rising 'future', the kiddos. Had none of our own, but my maternal aura is way strong.
~sprink
🇺🇸🌊
sprinkleeninow
(20,268 posts)He certainly put into play damaging legislation.
I could not abide him from the get-go. Repub or no. What kind of presidential material...😏
And people sucked it up.
Our lives in the US have reached a point in time. Imperative to stand together with those "of one mind and of one accord" and right the wrongs.
You are so kind to have responded to me! Thanx. 🤗
obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)Same rationale FDR used to handwave JIm Crow.
Leith
(7,813 posts)I will not try to understand them. I have to wish to reach out to them.'
Since the late 1970s, they have been bullies, insulting and openly trying to bait liberals and Democrats. It's their turn to make nice with us.
Fuck'em.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)I'm with you 100%. I couldn't care less what those low-life, slack-jawed, mouth breathing, booger eating morons think about me and the Democratic party. These racist assholes only understand one thing: power. Power over other human beings, power over the poor, power over the elderly, the sick, the handicapped, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians etc. etc. etc. That's the only thing they crave, the power to lord it over others. Well fuck them, and their power. They have absolutely no power over me, and I won't waste one second trying to "convert" them into decent human beings.
BigmanPigman
(51,644 posts)There were people draped in American flags as usual shouting how much they love, love, love the fucking moron on one side of the road and then there were anti-moron/anti-wall people on the other side of the road (the cops separated us since the tRump cult gets violent). Some anti moron people were shouting back at them trying to use logic, history, facts, etc and I did not. I told my neighbor, that I took along with me, that those tRump cult/fans are so far over into racial hatred-land that there is no way you can ever reason with them. That would be a lesson in futility and frustration. I wouldn't waste my time or energy.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Which is why it's absolutely maddening to see Democrats insist that we must go out of our way not to offend them because maybe we can convince them to come with us.
Bullshit. Not only aren't those people likely to vote Democratic any time soon, I don't want them anywhere near me or anyone I care about. And they don't want to be anywhere near me, so the only way the party can convince them to come on over is to convince them that black and brown people will be kicked to the curb.
People don't seem to understand that these folk didn't leave the Democratic Party because they didn't like our economic policies. They left because of US.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)economic insecurity argument?
Could it be THEY know something us white folk dont? Could it be their life experience is FAR FAR different from ours>?
Yes, they left the D party in those rare cases because of COLOR
Cha
(297,870 posts)for your on the ground report.
History in the making
BigmanPigman
(51,644 posts)March for our Lives March 24th. It is in 744 cities WORLDWIDE! I couldn't believe the map! I will try to post it under Activist Headquarters for links and locations. WE ALL ARE DOING IT...young and old, all cultures, sexes, nationalities, etc. It is incredible what the students have started with the help of older, more experienced activists to guide them.
Cha
(297,870 posts)on here, too, to tell us about these important events,
Mahalo nui loa!
BigmanPigman
(51,644 posts)PLEASE spread the word through social media and word of mouth. RESIST!
Cha
(297,870 posts)giving me a link, please?
Thank you! And, it's especially gratifying that San Diego got out to protest the mole.. one of my hometowns!
BigmanPigman
(51,644 posts)Here is info to find a location near you. With more cities than the Women's March there should be one near you. If not, you can start your own. Here is the info and links.
March for Our Lives - Find an Event
JOIN ONE OF THE 744 EVENTS WORLDWIDE
On March 24, the kids and families of March For Our Lives will take to the streets to demand that their lives and safety become a priority, and that we end gun violence in our schools and communities.
https://event.marchforourlives.com/event/march-our-lives-events/search/
https://marchforourlives.com/rsvp/
Register to vote...
https://marchforourlives.com/vote-for-our-lives/
Sign the petition to help keep kids safe...
https://marchforourlivespetition.com/
Cha
(297,870 posts)Here is info to find a location near you. With more cities than the Women's March there should be one near you. If not, you can start your own. Here is the info and links.
March for Our Lives - Find an Event
JOIN ONE OF THE 744 EVENTS WORLDWIDE
On March 24, the kids and families of March For Our Lives will take to the streets to demand that their lives and safety become a priority, and that we end gun violence in our schools and communities.
https://event.marchforourlives.com/event/march-our-lives-events/search/
https://marchforourlives.com/rsvp/
Register to vote...
https://marchforourlives.com/vote-for-our-lives/
Sign the petition to help keep kids safe...
https://marchforourlivespetition.com/
I shouldn't have been so lazy to find Activist HQ.. I was doing my laundry and making a late supper, and posting at the same time.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)Cha
(297,870 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)out you are a KGB operative
kidding
about the KGB part
betsuni
(25,715 posts)czarjak
(11,302 posts)shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)Are you a republican? I always respond with - why would I vote for a party that is supported by Nazis and the Klan?
As has been said a million times - not everyone who voted for drumpf is a racist, but every racist who voted, voted for tiny hands.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)a diverse group of supporters of many hues, including people who look like me. Then they looked to their right and saw a candidate surrounded by by virtually all-white cadre, including a large, loud and viable coterie of white supremacists, bigots, Nazis and skinheads.
And they went and lined up with the racist contingent.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)brush
(53,925 posts)identity politics all the timetheir identity ONLY.
Thanks for the shout out to a certain small state senator.
Cha
(297,870 posts)started his campaign on Birtherism.. and it only went into the sewer system from there.
Cha
(297,870 posts)Much!
If the trump voters are still fans after this long then they are not worth anyone's "respect".
Your whole OP is vital and riveting!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Without Trump voters coming to their senses, Lamb would not have won.
(That is not to discount the GOTV effort - it is equally true that without GOTV, Lamb would not have won. BUT both were necessary.)
LBM20
(1,580 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)There is a difference between a Trump voter and a Trump supporter.
A Trump voter is someone who voted for Trump in November 2016.
A Trump supporter is someone who supports him now.
All Trump voters arent Trump supporters but all Trump supporters were most likely Trump voters.
I have no trouble trying to urge people who voted for Trump, but who have since come to their senses, to vote Democratic.
But I want nothing to do with trying to reach out to people who, with everything they know about that bigoted disgrace, CONTINUE to stand with him now.
They dont deserve our attention and I dont want them in our party. If they want to be treated with respect and be seen a valued constituency, they need to distance themselves from the toxic racist theyve attached themselves to.
kcr
(15,320 posts)There really is no need to fall all over ourselves worrying about hurting their feelings. It's true. Conor Lamb showed us how to do it.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)So there's no point in antagonizing or intentionally alienating Trump voters.
I don't think refraining from calling all Trump voters racist (the specific example from the OP) is "falling all over ourselves." And calling all Trump voters racist is intentionally agonizing or alienating Trump voters.
(That doesn't mean we shouldn't call out racist Trump voters - just that we need to call out the racist ones, not broad-brush everyone who voted for Trump.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)make any effort to hide his virulent racism when he ran for President? It was obvious and if you voted for that you either are a racist or you don't think there is anything wrong with racists. If you don't think there is anything wrong with racists what is the difference between you and a racist?
obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)Missing her point entirely.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)OP is tired of being told not to make blanket statements denigrating Trump voters because they're never going to change.
Well, some of them did in PA-18 - and Lamb won because of it (and the tremendous all-hands-on-deck approach to that election).
And we need Trump voters to change for the midterm elections to take back the house.
Further, you can (and should) call out racism in Trump voters when you see it in a specific group of Trump voters, without making blanket statements tarring all Trump voters with the same racist brush.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Better just let it go.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)i might. But since there isn't, I'm not in any danger.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)supports him at this point is out of reach anyway. There's very little hope for people to wise up who support perhaps the most toxic administration in U.S. history. Many of them probably get their news exclusively from FOX or InfoWars, and don't trust other sources. I won't get into a prolonged argument with one, but I won't kiss their asses either.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)You can't put everyone in the same basket. No one is tolerating racism. And there were a lot of Trump voters who voted for Obama. They switched because their mills and factories have closed, their towns are dying, and they are angry and upset and just wanted change.
I think you need to be more nuanced in your thinking. No one is tolerating the evil of racism.
It is the Trump voters who are registered Dems, Independents, and even some moderate Republicans. who we need to get back into our fold again if we are to be a strong national party. And we have been showing that we can get many of them back by focusing on the local issues and economic issues that they care about.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)repeatedly miss my point and mscharacterize what Ive written, even though Ive put it in plain language.
But Ill repeat
There is a difference between a Trump voter and a Trump supporter.
A Trump voter is someone who voted for Trump in November 2016.
A Trump supporter is someone who supports him now.
All Trump voters arent Trump supporters but all Trump supporters were most likely Trump voters.
A person who voted for Trump but now regrets it and no longer supports him is worth reaching out to. I have no objection to that. But I DO object to reaching out to anyone who still supports Trump at this stage of the game either a bigot or doesn't care that the country is in the hands of bigots because the Democratic Party shouldnt be going out of its way to court the votes of bigots or their enablers.
And, as I said, I am also deeply offended by Democrats who are more concerned about protecting Republican bigots from being offended than whether I, an African-American Democratic ally, is offended by their concern for Republican bigots. The rush of so many DUers to defend and explain these people and to absolutely refuse to even consider much less understand the deeply felt opinion of this African-American woman who shares their party is very revealing and troubling.
dalton99a
(81,656 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Since 2008, people were have been told that the economy has improved. Unemployment and GDP numbers do not represent success to a person who works more than one job and still has trouble feeding their family and paying bills. Our candidate ran on a claim of economic success that did not match the experience of many low income people. Poverty was still 20% despite low unemployment numbers.
The exploitation of racial anxiety and connecting it to economic oppression is as old as the US. "They'll take your jobs" was a pro-slavery - military recruitment talking point before the civil war. A population that is simultaneously privileged and oppressed is vulnerable to promises of recovering or achieving a greater sense of privilege. Suggesting that economic oppression is not real and refusing to explore the dynamics surrounding it is a hateful way of claiming moral superiority and distracting from some very real problems they face.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2018, 09:43 PM - Edit history (1)
My point is that people of all races suffer economic oppression, but none more that minorities. If this economic insecurity drove people to vote for Donald Trump, we would have seen support for Trump across the board.
But we didn't. Only white people voted for him in large numbers. So economic insecurity couldn't have been the primary reason.
And this in no way suggests that white folks' insecurity should be explored and addressed. But I'm not falling for the effort to sweep up racism and bigotry under the economic insecurity blanket.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Not sure if you ignored or dismissed the part about race and economics being intertwined. It's all very strange. The motivation for entangling the two is to make oppressed people feel a sense of superiority. Then, marginalizing the people who have fallen for it seems to have given many liberal minded people a sense of moral superiority. I have seen strenuous efforts to claim economics had nothing to do with decisions to vote for trump. Is it worry over losing a sense of moral superiority or a lack of will to put in the effort to address the more complicated questions and Dynamics?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Giving racists a pass because they fell for someone who "entangled" race and economics is simply making an excuse for racism.
Sorry, they don't get a pass. Plenty of people - including economically oppressed people - DIDN'T fall for it. And they fell for it because they were open to it.
Did economics have SOMETHING to do with their vote. Of course. But their economics are driven by race. They believe their economic distress is caused by minorities and immigrants and other "others" and if they can just reshape the social construct back to what they think it used to be, back when America was great, their economic woes will be alleviated.
Can they change and grow? Sure. But it's not my political party's job to do it, especially at the expense of the minority base who desperately needs the party to focus its efforts elsewhere.
It is astounding to me that you seem so much more interested in explaining and coddling racists and castigating your fellow Democrats - especially minority Democrats who are BEGGING the party and people like you to stop insulting us and lecturing us about what is and isn't racist and who we should and shouldn't try to better understand. We've been dealing with and understanding these people in various guises our entire lives. We know exactly who and what they are and what drives them. So it's pretty annoying to have people come along now and TrumpSupporterSplain to us what this is all about.
It would be nice if you directed a fraction of the effort you spend on trying to get us to listen to and understand them on actually listening to and understanding the people in your own party who are trying to tell you something.
obamanut2012
(26,164 posts)They have destroyed countless lives and natural resources, and also our standing in the world and our economy. Fuck them.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)When KKK could wear hoods to hide their involvement in atrocities they committed, they could continue to act as caring citizens and Christians when it suited them. By giving bigots the cover of being financially insecure, they are being given hoods of a different type. Bigots need to be exposed, confronted, and publicly humiliated and ridiculed. They will then be forced to crawl back under the rock they have lived under or PERHAPS examine themselves and reform their hatred.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)The hardcore Trumpers and dyed-in-the-wool Republicans? Yeah, hell with them, they're not voting for our candidate.
However, further pissing off folks who have (in recent memory) voted Democratic is counterproductive. It just is. Insulting people who you need to vote for you (and again I'm not talking about lifelong Republicans, or Alt Righties, or Trump-humpers) is not a winning strategy.
Oh, and by the way, Hillary Clinton can say whatever she damned well pleases; she is, after all, a private citizen whose opinion I happen to value greatly. Pointing out that something she may say might not be helpful does not necessarily equate to disrespecting her, or being a Republican, or a Trumper, or anything else like that, however.
Paladin
(28,280 posts)They are entitled to absolutely no special treatment or consideration or outreach, not after the shit-hole they gleefully put this country in.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2018, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)
But do you want to win elections or not? In some (but not all) places winning requires getting people who voted for the Shitgibbon to vote for our candidates. Telling them they are stupid will effectively turn PA and MI and OH and IA and WI into fucking permanent red states. Is that really what you want? Do you really need them to come crawling back? Im not suggesting kissing their asses, Im just saying it doesnt help to publicly insult them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Obviously, at least one more - so, here goes.
There's a difference between Trump voter and Trump supporter. A Trump voter is someone who voted for Trump 16 months ago. A Trump supporter is one who today still supports him.
A person who voted for Trump 16 months ago but who is not now a supporter may be worth trying to reach. But a person who now, with all we know about him, STILL supports him, is either a bigot or is perfectly happy having a bigot as president and is very comfortable being in the company of racists and white supremacists and Nazis. I don't want anyone like that in my party. I don't want my party spending a nickel or a minute trying to recruit them. And I am highly suspect of anyone who believes that there's a chance in hell that any person like that would vote Democratic absent the Democratic Party getting rid of all of its minorities and adopting the Republican platform in full.
And yes, I WILL publicly insult these bigots to my heart content and couldn't care less if they are offended. And, in fact, calling them out for what they are and stopping with the excuses and coddling will actually make it more likely that the Trump voters who DON'T still support him will come over to our side because no decent person would want to be aligned with these neanderthals.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)I will leave it at that.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Progressive dog
(6,922 posts)The point of being a Democrat is not to embrace bigots, racists, or misogynists.
Cha
(297,870 posts)his campaign on birtherism.
The ultimate racist fucking dog whistle.
LAS14
(13,789 posts)... from fragmenting into a bunch of walled off tribes. I find the tone of this thread pretty depressing.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)They're welcome to join us if they learn to be decent people, play nice with others and get it through their heads that this is a multi-cultural society and the fact that other people have rights that they have always taken for granted and that they have to share does not mean they are being oppressed.
But here's what people who keep telling us we need to bring them into our party don't seem to understand. These people don't vote Democratic for a reason - and it's NOT because they don't like our economic policies. They're not Democrats because people like me are. And the only way they're going to cross back over is if they're assured that they won't have to compete with us for a piece of the pie. And the only way they will be assured that is if the Democrats who are doing the recruiting make them believe that.
And given some of the things we've seen - some of it right here on DU - I have no doubt that many Democratic "Trump Supporter Whisperers" will be more than happy to do that. You know, the ones who keep saying that Dems need to stop with the "identity politics," that we need to stop being so critical of Trump supporters, that we need to let up on talking about racism so much because that's "divisive," and such other dismissiveness toward minority Democrats.
tblue37
(65,502 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)When we get to the polls we win - it's as simple as that.
We need to get everyone off their butts and quit taking their votes for granted.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We need to spend our time on the 43% that sat out the last election, if we get 10% of them off their asses and voting with us we are unstoppable. RWNJ have maxed out their voting, I honestly believe anyone who is not voting with them now won't vote with them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)A lot of people got off their asses but either didn't vote or have their votes counted because of concerted voter suppression.
We need to work on making sure that the targets of this suppression are able to vote. We must help them navigate the labyrinth of voter ID laws, get the ID they need to vote, help them get to the polls.
If we do that, we will win. And the good thing is, we don't have to do any persuading or try to talk them into admitting they were wrong, changing their mindset and convince them to vote Democratic - and hope they don't change their minds back when they get in the privacy of the voting booth. These voters are solid Democratic voters who will vote with us if we just focus our energy on THEM, rather than on the voters who put their lives and futures in danger. AND we also don't have to sell our souls or sellout our brethren so that we don't upset our new "recruits.""
THAT's what we should be doing.
Stargleamer
(1,992 posts)I wouldn't mind offending them and telling them what a hero George Tiller was; he helped out so many women in awful circumstances.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)No, thank you.
Stargleamer
(1,992 posts)sometimes I think that they think by helping POC in this country, that such help comes at their expense, i.e., they think they get hurt when POC are helped. There's just so much antagonism/hatred within so many of them.
After the election, came so many articles/TV segments about "the Trump voters". I mean, WTF?? A very good way of understanding who the Trump voters are is by focusing on what they are not, and to do that there should have been articles/TV segments about "the Hillary voters", but there never was. Had there been, everyone could have readily seen what qualities and characteristics the Trump voters were lacking in.
In regards to what I wrote above, let us never waver in our support for the girl or woman seeking an abortion, as they ALWAYS take overwhelming precedence over a fertilized egg, embryo or fetus. We have to hold firm to our principles, as you stated.
They claim we hate too, but I think we hate mostly the harm they inflict on our country, on those who are marginalized, although sometimes such feelings can veer towards hating particular individuals such as Trump.
dhol82
(9,353 posts)I find this bizarre but he has advised me that he has stopped his subscription to the NYTimes, stopped listening to CNN and finds everything, except for Fox, to be fake news.
This was once a reasonable adult.
He thought Obama was coming for his guns. Slippery slope.
I just throw up my hands at this point.
I am afraid that the propaganda has infiltrated too deeply in this country already. It will take at least one generation if not two to recover to some semblance of democracy.
I worry that we might never recover.