General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOther than that Mrs. Lincoln, "how was the play"? I would like to thank Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon,
and those other self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee for showing us what IDIOTS you are
John Bolton, Larry Kudlow, Ben Carson, Betsy Devos, and a cast of others would like to thank them also
2018 is our last chance
dhol82
(9,353 posts)Curious to know.
blake2012
(1,294 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)A lesson for all who imagine that feelings of intense virtue requiring support by intense dishonesty are not limited to the far right.
Mosby
(16,310 posts)Tell me "sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better" with a shitty smirk on his face.
I wonder how he feels now.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)If he's wired "zealot," though, he's probably still too busy trying to stop Democrats to have time for Republicans.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... she can barely contain her excitement at the horrors that await us.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)they provide so much information.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,521 posts)When you think things can't get worse, they can. And taking back Congress in November is absolutely crucial to our democracy and likely to world peace.
still_one
(92,190 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,600 posts)Along with all Republicans. They support Trump without any hesitation.
progressoid
(49,990 posts)chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)And, what's wrong with pointing out the Liars who own a chunk of trump because of their Lies that "Hillary was more dangerous than trump".
You can roll your eyes all you want but it doesn't change the facts of what happened.
I think it's okay to point out just how full of shite these Liars are.. who suck so many voters in..
Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)and I just dont see the point in hating and blaming these people forever, so I responded to a post I agree with.
..
Cha
(297,205 posts)Rigged Election.. so it doesn't happen again in 2020.
You can agree with any post you want of course. I'm pointing out why I disagree.. and I'm glad so many people are not giving cover to stein and ssarandon.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)nuclear strike in Korea. He is now national security advisor ...a man who could not even win confirmation in a Bush White house. Now the House traditionally has the right to declare war not the president...time to take back power from what has become an imperial presidency. Our lives are at stake. And 18 is our last chance...as they will ram all sorts of goodies between 18 and 20...we will be luck if we don't end up with a fascist dictator.
I will hate Sarandon, Turner and others...forever. The damage they have caused is incalculable. We are facing nuclear war... a president who has said 'if you have nukes why can't you use them?' is the president and Bolton who wrote a Oped about a 'first strike' is security advisor...and much of the blame can be laid at their door.
Those who claimed the two parties were the 'same' and that Hillary was more of a 'warmonger' than Trump are liars, and we will pay a price for their undue influence and lies during 16. I don't understand how they even have the nerve to show their sorry faces.
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)if hating on certain people gives you peace, then good for you. For me it's exhausting and bad for my health, I know because I tried. My world is full of trumpers, people I once considered good friends. I've learned I can be civil and laugh with them about our grandkids and pets even as I can no longer imagine the level of friendship we once had. I'm finding dealing with people in my own world at my age (70) is quite enough to manage without wasting my emotions on movie stars who I will never meet and never share a cup of coffee with. It's a complete waste of time and energy for me.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)multitudes of Democrats thought Michael Dukakis ran an inept campaign, among other things
multitudes of Democrats thought Al Gore ran a stiff campaign, aot
multitudes of Democrats thought John Kerry ran a weak campaign, aot
multitudes of Democrats thought Hillary Clinton ran a timid campaign, aot
live and let live should be watchwords of all Democrats from the dogs to the purists
hate should have no home here
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)I see those signs all over Denver and they give me a feeling of peace. I know it's trite and so much easier to hate on people, but hate is what got us here. Enough, already.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)...I tend to forget the appalling things certain influential people have said and done. This is especially true in the Age of Trump, when chaos swirls on all sides of the presidency, intentionally obscuring everything.
The reminders are okay with me. There are younger people who simply do not remember what Green candidate Ralph Nader said in the 2000 election cycle: "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the Democratic and Republican Parties." Hence, no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush.
The more I know, the less-innocent he looks. The more I know, the more-culpable Jill Stein looks.
lark
(23,099 posts)Sarandon still thinks she did the right thing and would do it again, that's how totally deranged she is. They are almost as much of a danger as trumpers because drumpf wouldn't have stolen the election if they had voted for HRC. And the "but it's Hillary"meme is a total cop out and lie. These same asses refused to vote for Kerry and so enabled the awful election of GW. They are the enemy and we need to acknowledge that. It doesn't matter that they have a lot of the same policy goals since they enable to r's to keep power an ensure those policies never happen.
Cha
(297,205 posts)her LIES.. it's NOT in the "past".. as some are trying to push on here.
We don't want a repeat in 2020 but, of course, they'll try again with the same ol shite.. as ssarandon sits in her plush $50 Million surroundings with not a worry in the world.
I don't know what that lying creep stein is worth.
Cha
(297,205 posts)in the OP.
You just have to have paid attention in the 2016 GE campaign and election to know that.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)charlyvi
(6,537 posts)Alabama showed us that Doug Jones won his Senate race.
still_one
(92,190 posts)charlyvi
(6,537 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)truly afraid about the integrity of your elections. Those third party assholes can FO!
still_one
(92,190 posts)in the general election. The problem is in several republican districts there are too many Democrats running against each other, and only one or two republicans in those districts. That means there is a very real potential for the Democrats to take votes away from each other, so the top two votes could very likely go to the republicans in that district, and we need as many Democrats to win as possible
but you already know that, and we are on the same page
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)for the sake of humanity could people wake up. Were in very tenuous times.
deurbano
(2,895 posts)against each other in the general, it's divisive.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)tidal wave that sweeps Republicans out of office.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I fear for the country. I hear the beat of war drums.
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)Response to still_one (Original post)
Post removed
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)It was attacking her as if they were Republicans with lies and distortion.
still_one
(92,190 posts)supported Bernie in the primaries.
If they had one once of regret or remorse it would be different, but they don't
progressoid
(49,990 posts)denverbill
(11,489 posts)If it's the past, keep doing what your doing.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)It's not hard to determine who is in each camp.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)who is anxious to engage in nuclear war....nothing else matters. In 18, we can't get rid of him but we can clip his wings.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I agree with denverbill (in #64) about the dichotomy. There are people who want to get rid of Trump but who act as if refighting 2016 will help us do that.
I'm in the camp that favors looking to the future.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Really? You honestly think the Green Party's efforts to elect Republicans are a thing of the "past"?
LOL.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)protecting LGBTQ rights, Marriage equality, the Lilly Ledbetter equal pay act, CHIP, and much more?
That past?
Yes I want to keep on that track.
Cha
(297,205 posts)going on NOW. stein and ssarandon are still out there spreading their filthy LIES.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)Forgetfulness is another form of rank, blind stupidity.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)was not "rewarded" by continually trashing our formally-preferred candidate, Bernie, here EVERY DAY, without let up. Jill Stein & Susan Sarandon, I get it... fuck them!
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)I don't think he can win a primary and it could cause a division which allows Trump to sneak in again...eight years of Trump, I doubt we would survive. Now I voted for Bernie in Ohio...my entire family did. I liked both candidates and it was a hard choice. I have been very disturbed by some of his actions and statements that I believe hurt the Democratic Party and our chances. I worked my ass off for Hillary Clinton. I always vote for the Democratic...I know you did too. But some here lump Bernie in with 16 and may even believe his run cost us 16. I think there were many causes for our 16 loss...if we really lost. The could have been votes flipped which would explain the crazy numbers in some states. I sincerely hope Bernie will set aside his ambition to be president for the good of the country and let those who bear no scars from 16 and who are not controversial run. We need new candidates. I also think he is too old for a presidential run. I like Biden and think he has some support but again, I think we need younger candidates. I have cared for elderly members of my family...their health can change in a New York second. After Trump, we need stability.
There is no doubt that I can be angered quickly by Sen. Sanders for a statement or whatever...probably more than any Democratic politician. And that stems from disappointment not hatred. I don't hate him.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)And it's perfectly reasonable. Every Democrat makes questionable statements that, may, in one way or another, not be helpful to the our party's cause - I could cite Hillary's recent gaffs in India - and people can (and should) rightfully criticize. It's the vitriol, often directed as much, if not more, at their supporters that I have a problem with. I don't see how that helps build party unity, which is critical to regaining Congressional power in 2018 and, of course, looking ahead to 2020.
Bottom line: I just want to win... 8 years of that tRumpster fire and Rethug congress is unthinkable!!
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)opinion that we won't win. I want to win so bad I can taste it.
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)sure youll be right on board. Given the military engagements your country and the world will be in, this will be sadisticly sad.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)They think Democrats aren't progressives, same as Republicans, and if not continually insulted and threatened would be farther to the Right than the Republicans. Facts and information were readily provided to them here. They chose to believe CTs and propaganda, to spread toxic negativity and hate. They must change themselves.
treestar
(82,383 posts)To vote or not vote in a way that delays progressiveness even further?
Some people need a thicker skin
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)I know some who voted for Nader...one in Florida and they get it and have never voted for a third party candidate again...if these folks haven't learned the lesson with Trump...than they never will. We are facing nuclear war...I don't really give a a damn how they feel.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)an insult.. no matter how stale and passé.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Gotcha.
mcar
(42,323 posts)as President.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)they tried to turn it into a couple of dirty words.
The status quo that was always moving Forward!
Demsrule
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)complete obstruction, he still managed to save the economy, pass healthcare and during his tenure we got marriage equality... a remarkable man and a wonderful president. My Grandma has a picture of Roosevelt...my Mom and Dad added Kennedy and Johnson. I have those pictures now and will add one of President Obama. Cha
Cha
(297,205 posts)a real progressive.. if he had a Democratic Congress all 8 years.. who knows what we could have had.. except for the brainwashing of America..
But, it is what it is.. and we will just keep fighting until the world returns to sanity.
Great points, Dems..
" he still managed to save the economy, pass healthcare and during his tenure we got marriage equality... a remarkable man and a wonderful president."
Cool! I have one of Obama and Biden.. and a magnetic graphic with Obama's pic on my fridge, that says I'm a member of Obama's Kitchen Cabinet.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)I well remember the horrible stuff said about him when he couldn't get single payer. They had a pout and ended any chance for progressive policy.
Cha
(297,205 posts)that in the brainwashing of America.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)betsuni
(25,515 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)Republicans are doing nothing to stop Trump.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)Bad enough that places like Syria are hellholes where people suffer terribly, another thing to go looking for trouble for no reason -- like the Iraq War. Thanks, Republicans.
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)mcar
(42,323 posts)What was wrong with that, again?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)STATUS QUO! (whatever it happens to be - it seems to shift daily - but it's always BAD!!!!!)
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)and have a truly "authentic" person occupying the White House. Hurray.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"Authentic"
"Anti-establishment"
"Not like career politicians."
betsuni
(25,515 posts)Come on, Susan, what's the hold up?
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)Bernie gave her. Nothing to follow, she got the press she wanted to aid her fading career.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Actually, even as to Susan Sarandon, my guess is that your statement is false. Stein wanted people to support her (duh), and Sarandon supported her, but Sarandon is capable of speaking for herself and probably didn't follow a script given her by Stein.
Putting that aside, though, Bernie's case is clear. Stein offered to step aside to let him run on the Green Party ticket. He didn't take that offer -- in fact, Stein rather petulantly complained that he hadn't even responded to her. Then he went out and campaigned for Hillary. Were his speeches for Hillary based on a script Stein gave him? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say No.
OK, now, since another Bernie bash has been exposed as a blatant lie, it's time for some deflection. Perhaps someone would be so good as to complain that Bernie didn't campaign enough for Hillary, and someone else might add the shocking news that he's not a Democrat?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)Do you have any other GOTV ideas?
still_one
(92,190 posts)absolutely no remorse or regret
They demonstrated their true colors in 2016, and they have no regrets
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The reason I ask is that the vast majority of them abandoned him in 2004.
That datum suggests a rather startling hypothesis: Maybe people who cast one vote that we disagree with aren't thereby conclusively shown to be utterly unreachable.
Just a thought.
still_one
(92,190 posts)progressives who voted for Nader did not believe that Bush would win, and I say that because in my discussions with some of those voters, that is what they said to me.
2016 was different though. While most of those who supported other Democratic candidates voted for the Democratic nominee in the general election, there was a small percent that didn't, and they expressed an entirely different view. That view was that they hoped there would be enough of them to cause the election to be lost by the Democratic nominee.
Unlike those in 2000, these spoilers have no regret, and would gladly do the same thing again, even knowing what has transpired under trump.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)My evidence, like yours, is essentially anecdotal, but, FWIW, here goes....
Neither the Nader voters nor the Stein voters were a monolith. Each group had a mixture of reasoning and motive. I think that each group included some people in each of these categories:
* People who objected on principle to voting for a candidate with whom they had significant disagreements.
* People who minimized the differences between the two major parties (ironically, the same pitch made by George Wallace in 1968).
* People in non-swing states who thought their state was in the bag for one party anyway, and so voted to send a message (or to help the Greens get to 5% for federal funding) rather than to affect the outcome.
* People who actively wanted the Democratic candidate to lose because that way the Democratic Party would be forced to move left to re-attract disgruntled progressives.
(Side note to the reading-impaired crowd: I voted for Gore, I voted for Clinton, I am not endorsing any of the above viewpoints, and I am not urging a vote against a Democratic candidate. I'm simply trying to understand why a significant number of generally left-leaning people made the wrong decision.)
I couldn't venture to say whether the mix among these groups was significantly different as between Nader and Stein. The only thing that's clear to me is that Nader got a lot of votes because of his name recognition and his well-deserved reputation as a consumer advocate, which is a big reason he did so much better than Stein did.
A key factor is that both these races -- the two elections in which the Green Party candidate did significantly better than in any other presidential election in the party's history -- came after eight years of a Democrat in the White House. I think people got complacent. Especially with regard to the second group, those who minimized the differences between the two major parties, it was easier to believe that baloney when there was no recent history of a Republican as President.
This will be important in 2020. The Stein voters in the first two groups I listed above will have the same experience as the Nader voters did from 2000 to 2004: four years of Republican misrule, with horrific consequences for the country.
The effect of this experience in 2004 was that Nader lost about three-fourths of his previous support. In 2020, although there will be some Green Party diehards of the type you describe, it's reasonable for us to hope that a lot of them will repent. This is why I disagree with the DUers whose preferred approach to this bloc is to scream invective at them at every opportunity. Some of them can be won over, but not that way.
And, no, winning over some Stein voters doesn't mean we have to abandon other campaign efforts. I favor an "all of the above" strategy. There are Obama-Trump voters who can be won over, there are people who sat out the 2016 election who can be won over, there are young people and other new voters to be registered, etc. Heck, I'd include going after the McMullin voters. That's more than 700,000 votes for a candidate who was on the ballot in only eleven states. I think most of them are traditional Republicans who were appalled by the prospect of Trump, and who are unlikely to have been mollified by his performance in office. If he's the GOP candidate in 2020 (which of course isn't certain), some of them might be ready to vote to oust him instead of just casting a protest vote.
still_one
(92,190 posts)non-green voters who voted for Nader or Stein, because for the most part I tend to believe that those who are registered with the green party are a monolith, though I have no doubt there would be exception in that generalization.
So the focus of my argument was on those progressives who voted third party, and I see a distinction between that demographic in 2000 verses 2016. As I stated, I think a good number of that group in the swing states in 2016 actually wanted to be spoilers, but like you said it is anecdotal. It would be enlightening to see an actual poll or survey on that.
You make some very convincing arguments though, and I really need to think about this more
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)had no impact...yeah I blame them. And they never learned the lesson even after we got two wars, a failing economy, Katrina deaths and United (the gift that keeps on giving) I know folks who voted for him and deeply regret it...I still think they were idiots to vote for him...but they are not doubling down as some who vote third party in 16 are...Sarandon and Turner are good examples.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)...it took a major act of Treason and numerous other felonies to bring her down.
Got anything else?
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)You nailed it!👍🏼👏🏼
ismnotwasm
(41,978 posts)We have people interested in politics for the first time, some are VOTING for the first time, a strong African American political community to work with, as well as other people of color.
What happened with Trump, in part, is the people who usually voted voted, and Hillary lost, in part, because of the constant and coordinated attacks from some who should have fully supported her. Its a new day coming.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)By multiple people, multiple times, that Hillary didnt need my vote. She would be just without me or people like me. Those people, as it turned out, were incredibly incorrect. Astoundingly so. To the point where I now wonder if those people were Russian trolls.
However, there is no new day coming if people keep antagonizing the people whose vote they complain about not getting in he first place.
For the record, I knocked on a hell of a lot of doors for Hillary.
ismnotwasm
(41,978 posts)There is a demographic change happening, may be a more accurate way to put it. White people, with their biases and privileges are not going to rule everything anymore. Thank God and speed the day. We can learn to share.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)But not whites?
ismnotwasm
(41,978 posts)What exactly do you mean by calling out?
JI7
(89,249 posts)high numbers.
mcar
(42,323 posts)Period.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)Who their consciences allow them to vote for in future isn't up to us. Small children and animals could see the difference between Trump and Clinton. Why couldn't they? You see where the "idiot" part comes in.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)However, it is enlightening as to how some seem to feel.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)spike91nz
(180 posts)Conspiracy issues I always get a little suspicious when someone here focuses upon the divisive issues that were employed by the GOP to weaken us rather than moving into a receptive attitude of joining together for removal of a common enemy. You never win by fighting the last lost battle over and over, you only fragment the group and alienate those who were admittedly needed. Clearly there are more important issues for us to deal with than poking at old wounds created by those who were committed to fomenting divisiveness in our ranks and handicapping our effectiveness.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)and those such as Stein and Sarandon who duped enough people to believe that the Democratic nominee was worse than Trump, because that was and is BULL
Perhaps those folks will not be fooled again by the Sarandons and the Steins. I might also mention that the same cast of divisive characters were there in 2000 also telling us how their was no difference between republicans and Democrats
calimary
(81,260 posts)with good ol' Vlad and Mike Flynn? That Jill Stein? Yeah. No Russian interference with that one.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)They're lost to reality and reason and are not shy about telling us how much they despise us. Hopefully the number of such people is shrinking and won't be as loud next time.
Cha
(297,205 posts)own little bubble.. they believed all the LIES stein and ssarandon were spewing without Checking out the FACTS themselves.
Hopefully if they give a shite about the Planet they'll now see stein's and ssarandon's Propaganda for what it is.
Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
Cha
(297,205 posts)who are still pushing their LIES. Forget the 2016 Rigged in election that they own a big chunk of.. they are still spewing their filthy LIES After that.
I get suspicious when anyone wants to shuffle that under the rug.
Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)group intended to cause controversy.
Cha
(297,205 posts)Nina Turner.. who said she wouldn't support Hillary in the GE.
mudstump
(342 posts)Hekate
(90,681 posts)...and enjoy your stay.
progressoid
(49,990 posts)Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)center left and work for moderate voters( independent's votes). Progressives (like me ) will get less not more. I don't want that, but it has to happen if the unreliable voters of 16 don't learn a lesson in what not to do in a general election which is always vote for the Democrat. You want to send a message, may I suggest twitter or email...or for God's sake send it snailmail...just don't use your vote. I mean "you" in general/universal terms...not saying you did any of what I discussed.
still_one
(92,190 posts)Sarandons should not be believed
mcar
(42,323 posts)Why shouldn't they be coming to our side, filled with remorse for what they, in part wrought? Why should Democrats have to beg and cajole a bunch of selfish idiots to pretty please vote with us to save the country?
Cha
(297,205 posts)https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
mcar
(42,323 posts)Or is it something more...nefarious?
Hekate
(90,681 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)To prevent another right wing congress? A little dig like this is enough to get them to risk that?
Cha
(297,205 posts)EVER going to quit spewing their filthy LIES?
They're still doing it NOW after trump.
Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)...will get them to change their minds next time.
progressoid
(49,990 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)they'll change their minds.
Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms
IronLionZion
(45,440 posts)so that we can trip and fall over ourselves and slide the election straight into the undeserving hands of the GOP? That'll teach those other Democrats a lesson.
still_one
(92,190 posts)IronLionZion
(45,440 posts)Might as well get our thinking points directly from the source at Russian troll farms.
Cha
(297,205 posts)another thing is.. it's still ongoing.
This is a cautionary tale for 2018 and 2020
IronLionZion
(45,440 posts)since they're not feeling nearly as much punishment from Trump's administration as people of color...yet.
lutherj
(2,496 posts)toe the party line, comrade! Were all Ruskies now!
still_one
(92,190 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)every four years, then they pop right back in their holes waiting for the next presidential election. It's clear to me they don't even care about building a foundation for their loser political parties--they only want to sabotage the Democrats. Also, have they even at least been speaking out on key issues like gun control lately? Where are the Steins and Sarandons of politics on that? At least there have been some real Democrats pressing that issue.
CanonRay
(14,101 posts)ever again. That is all.
KG
(28,751 posts)again
Cha
(297,205 posts)West: Unlike Hillary Clinton and President Obama who are puppets.. brother trump is a real human being
I'm sure there are more stupid statements but this takes the prize today.
Mahalo, still_one, for pointing out the Brainwashing RFs in the 2016 Rigged in election.. and still RFing.
They ALL need to be held accountable for his fucking shite.
still_one
(92,190 posts)committee, and he couldn't jump over to Jill Stein quick enough
Thanks Cha
Cha
(297,205 posts)book, Gas Light, to shame, and the movie they adapted it from.. way back in 1944..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)
Sounds like he voted for trump from that quote on Hillary, President Obama, and trump.
Mahalo, still_one
"My dear friend Cornel West said during the campaign that 'I think Trump will be a neofascist catastrophe and Clinton will be a neoliberal disaster.' I don't know what a neoliberal disaster even means, but whatever it is, isn't it better than a fascist one? Have you people lost your fucking minds?"
Bill Maher
Cha
(297,205 posts)trump "a real human being".. which we've witnessed many times over.. he's NOT. GasLighter.
And, President Obama and Hillary are intelligent, compassionate, and courageous leaders for the uplifting of humanity. Plus they have good senses of humor.
Mahalo for Maher, betsuni.. yes I do believe cornel west lost his fucking mind.
betsuni
(25,515 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)There is a disingenuous quality to him that makes it seem like an act. I used to like him a lot, but the bit has taken over his common sense, i fear.
Cha
(297,205 posts)Yep.. then there's Killer Mike who didn't do his homework
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-killer-mike-20160812-snap-story.html
Hekate
(90,681 posts)Cha
(297,205 posts)Throw Killer Mike in there, too.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-killer-mike-20160812-snap-story.html
Demsrule86
(68,565 posts)evaluate candidates using the criteria ...can he/she win in this district or state...and for fuck's sake no more primaries of sitting Democrats. We can use the resources elsewhere to take GOP seats. Also don't support outside groups who are unrepentant about their role in 16 like our revolution and who clearly hate Democrats more than Republicans. Ideology is important but only if you can win a majority...otherwise it is meaningless as you dance to the GOP tune.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)lashing out at her in anger, under the guise of "holding her feet to the fire..."
As if she would need that.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Tracey, Taibbi, Bragman, etc... When Dems are finally in control of Washington again, these are the types of agitprop merchants we need to purge out
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)HenryWallace
(332 posts)Still punching left hey.....
Grow up, move on.....
Cha
(297,205 posts)clue what you're talking about.
stein, pawn for putin, and ssarandon' are LIARS, who are still Lying their damn heads off.. This is happening now.. they will try to screw up the 2020 election, too.
HenryWallace
(332 posts)A clue; Vladimir Putin installed Donald Trump by manipulating Dr. Jill Stein and an aging Hollywood celebrity, no thanks.
Thats not a clue; its a plot to a bad James Bond film.
It must be Hell living every day as if its November 9, 2016!
Cha
(297,205 posts)fucking ssaradon.
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)misdirected anger.. or calculated distraction
"Voter turnout this year dipped to nearly its lowest point in two decades. While election officials are still tabulating ballots, the 126 million votes already counted means about 55% of voting age citizens cast ballots this year. That measure of turnout is the lowest in a presidential election since 1996, when 53.5% of voting-age citizens turned out."
[link:https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/index.html|
Cha
(297,205 posts)why these two Liars, who are still Lying and have no remorse about their LIES, deserve every bit of our anger.
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)as am I and everyone else in this country.. it doesn't change the fact that half the country didn't vote - why has that happened and how can they be brought into the fold?? Why hasn't the electoral college been challenged or debated since 2016 exposed it as archaic??
Or maybe that is the point.. let's keep the duopoly as is, we just want to edge out the other side barely and just make minimal incremental changes.. let's not engage new voters, new ideas that could challenge the gravy train that now exists..
Cha
(297,205 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)Also, "you're".
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)it's why i come hear( <--- ) so often..
Marty Marzipan
(67 posts)... all the people who didn't vote for Hillary because it was obvious she was going to win. Drumpf thanks you!
Loubee
(165 posts)because Sarandon told them to. Vindictive scapegoating of individuals or groups isn't going to lead to election success in the future.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)There were AND ARE people who call themselves "progressives" who STILL TODAY cling like leeches to the idea of an evil, "Republican Lite" Hillary Clinton, against all evidence. (Who needs stinkin' evidence? My CONSCIENCE!!). Yes, I am angry as hell. We are facing a crisis in our country and the world, and if some people don't know that or don't care, then yes, I hate them. I'm not a hater, but I will never forgive them. They have no intention of changing, or admitting what they've done.
Gothmog
(145,218 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)the tube last nite still trying to sound reasonable. She FAILED.
still_one
(92,190 posts)DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)supports trump, not her right?
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)WTF was wrong with those folks? We sure aren't better off.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)apnu
(8,756 posts)Same result, but different.
Jill Stein is a Russian puppet and has been for a while.
Susan Sarandon is a wide eyed true believing progressive who often leaps before she thinks. She seems to live in a pure reactionary mode and is quick to trust anything that confirms her bias before asking if she's being played for a rube.
Reactionary Progressives and liberals like Sarandon don't do us any favors. They look and act exactly like their counterparts on the far right.
Its not that I disagree with the politics of the far left, in fact I support them on most issues. Its how they conduct themselves and how easily they fall for propaganda (the kind Jill Stein was selling) and react with hair-on-fire rage and panic.
Calm down, think before you act. Act with reasoned and deliberate actions.
A woman of her age and wisdom, Sarandon should know this lesson by now.
KPN
(15,645 posts)feel like a merry-go-round?
I hope at least it makes some feel better.
Progressive dog
(6,902 posts)and I sure hope they get properly rewarded for it along with those MAGA progressives.
Maybe Flynn has information about Stein and her patron, Putin, to share with Mueller.