DU's Bernie problem.

[CanSocDem]

It is utterly incomprehensible to me that Americans in general and this site specifically CANNOT discuss the elements of a 'democratic society' without devolving into petty personal hang-ups that obliterate the stated goal of a JUST SOCIETY.

Though popular with the intellectually lazy, threads that bicker back and forth over "petty personal hang-ups" take up space and serve only the enemies of social justice.


.

[comradebillyboy]

1. This problem existed at DU long before Bernie came on the scene.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. No, not like this...

We had our Deaniacs and Clarkies, but it was MUCH more civil.

[comradebillyboy]

215. I remember the mass purges of Hillary supporters on DU in 2008, it was

even uglier than the 2016 conflicts. It was not the least bit civil.

[Hekate]

240. Then why did I spend 8 years hiding out in the BOG while Obama was POTUS?

When we don't have some sternly enforced rules, DU gets rancid with neurotics who will never be satisfied with a Democratic President, and with trolls who come here to divide us.

[Blue_true]

5. Yeah, like the attacks on Hillary and President Obama by some on DU.

The viciousness of attacks during the 2016 that caused so much ill feelings that last to this day. For someone to attempt to paper over that with the implication that it only started with Bernie and that Bernie is the only victim is tone deaf.

[Dennis Donovan]

9. That is utter bullshit...

DU is a 17 yr old website, started by LIBERAL DEMOCRATS.

[Blue_true]

15. I pointed out a reality that happened.

You gave no counter argument and instead chose personal insult.

You can't convince me that former DU people like Manny Goldstein and others who caused complete chaos on du during the 2016 primary and even before were liberal democrats. They always back handedly attacked democrats of all stripes and some of that continues today.

[JI7]

20. Yup, manny was a long time troll going back years before 2016

He admitted he would undo 2008 election instead of Reagan or w Bush.

Openly trolling for years.

[Blue_true]

24. There were others in his camp.

The fact that they left and stole the image of Jackpine Radical crates me to this day. JPR was a true progressive and a giant on DU.

[emulatorloo]

117. Agreed, Jackpine Radical was an amazing guy. Warm, smart, and a dedicated progressive

[potone]

168. You may be interested in learning...

that despite Manny’s antipathy to Hillary, he posted on JPR that he was going to vote for in the general election because Trump was an unacceptable candidate for president.

[sheshe2]

258. And you believe him?

Why?

He trashed democrats here. Women, poc and Hillary. Watermelon threads, trashed POC daily...can't quite remember ...a thread about dating Ann Coulter or some such. His hatred of Obama.

And here he is an Admin on JPR that allows Hill to be called the C word. The Admin gave their blessing. It is cool with them that she is allowed to be called that, yet Admin gave one qualification...YOU NEVER EVER EVER CALL A MEMBER OF JPR A C WORD, only Hill. No way in hell he voted for Hill. No EFFING WAY!

He has said he was a Repuke and he sure trolled DU. His posts always got massive support.

Support her on DU.

[JI7]

269. Exactly, spend years tearing down the party with lies

Start a website full of right wing hate and then claim he voted Hillary and we are supposed to believe it and be thankful. FUCK THAT.

[sheshe2]

271. Thanks, JI7.

[mcar]

275. I don't believe him

He is a foulmouthed racist and sexist.

[Progressive dog]

296. Was that before and after he quoted the Trump+Russia

campaign lies about Hillary? My guess is both. IMO Manny was a conman psychopath like the orange thing in the White House. He just wasn't quite as smart as Trump.

[Dennis Donovan]

26. Personal insult?

[zentrum]

55. Manny did not cause chaos.

He was hated for defending Bernie's primary run.

[emulatorloo]

123. Every thread he posted was flaimbait, designed to get DUers at each others throats

He rarely criticized Republicans if at all. He functioned as an “attack from the left” troll, blaming Democrats for what Republicans did.

He behaved like a Republican operative, stirring the pot and dividing the community.

Bottom line, Like “Stockholm” WillyT, he was effectively a Bernie detractor. He detracted from Senator Sanders views and policies.

[Eliot Rosewater]

142. Do people not understand KGB (I refuse to use their new name) agents are EVERYWHERE

in social media?

EVERYWHERE?

They are, period.

[Nitram]

147. Eliot, I agree and I am positive many of the most extreme views expressed against Clinton and

Bernie were posted by provocateurs, not Democrats.

[Eliot Rosewater]

150. But that goes against what we now know for a fact, that these entities ONLY

did things to harm one candidate. not both.

[Nitram]

158. What better way to harm Clinton (and the Democratic Party) than putting Democrats at each other's

throws? That's classic tradecraft.

[emulatorloo]

156. No, more along the lines of Karl Rove-style operative.

Whether he was or wasn’t is almost decide the point, he behaved as if he were

This sort of thing has been going on since Nixon

- pose as a progressive
- stir the pot with flame bait to get people who fundamentally agree fighting
- never criticize Republicans
- post “atttack from the left” critiques of Dems (Obama will cut Social Security at the next SOTU)

Generally get folks who agree fighting each other. Get them disillusioned so they don’t want to vote for Democrats

[Eliot Rosewater]

160. Yes that has gone on for a long time but the KGB has joined them.

It is a perfect storm, internet, our open society, certain people in America who have actually been working for the KGB for decades coming into play.

Some of them working at IT companies, hacking our elections, etc. Working precincts, working in politics and media.

[KPN]

171. So why are we participating in this? Note I use WE.

[Blue_true]

178. Honestly, I never saw him criticized a republican.

Even when republicans were doing clear stuff that was hurting Americans.

[emulatorloo]

196. AFAIK He only tepidly criticized Republicans when I called him on it

Imho he only supported Warren so he could use her as a club to beat other Dems like Obama over the head. Told him as much. Classic attack-from-the-left troll.

[sheshe2]

243. Lest we forget.

Manny's watermelon and fried chicken post. Yug.

[Blue_true]

247. Yes.

I think that one almost caused a lot of people to crawl through their computer to punch him in the nose.

[mcar]

280. Wasn't he the Stockholm Syndrome guy?

[sheshe2]

281. That was WillyT

Posted then doubled down and was gone.

The most disgusting OP ever and was supported here on DU.

[mcar]

289. I get them confused

But yes, that was disgusting!

[betsuni]

282. I remember him lying constantly about what he would post, like that one.

Even in the same thread he'd say something offensive, someone would call him out, he'd deny saying it even though it was RIGHT THERE. It was literally "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Amazing. I wonder why anyone would trust and follow that sort of person.

[sheshe2]

285. Many here did.

He had a huge following, betsuni. As did Manny and Will.

[betsuni]

287. I guess that's why some people like Trump, too.

They admire bullshit or something.

[sheshe2]

292. Umhm.

I know for a fact that Will never voted for Hill, he said so. As for the other two...I doubt they voted for her either.

Do they like trump? Not sure yet their votes got us that bastard, and Manny said he was a repuke...so there we have it.

[JI7]

270. Another thing he did was whenever something positive happened

To democrats or negative for republicans and most were happy and United over it, he would throw out some flamebait which was intended to go back to attacking democrats .

[Blue_true]

297. Yelp.

That was his go to tactic, saw that happen a lot. Plus he would chose programs that democrats hold sacred, like Social Security and Medicare and use them to plummel democratic leaders, even when it was republicans attacking the programs and democrats defending the programs.

[betsuni]

133. His posts were about "Third Way" Democrats.

Third Way Manny. He was too boring to be worthy of hatred.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

145. MANNY annoyed the heck out of me long before 2015.

He blasted out comments to present himself as top dog and lost all credibility with me.

Most curious as to why he tried to rule the roost.

[Demsrule86]

202. Obama was savaged. He was called I remember the 'used car salesman president'.

We lost 10 because the left left abandoned the president...six years later we had nothing to show for a two term president. if Democrats who (so disappointed in Obama they said lowest approval of his presidency during this time) had turned out in 14, Gorsuch would not be on bench. The fear is if Sen Sanders runs again,Trump wins because of the divisions surrounding Sen. Sanders. If we don't get back on power...the progressive movement is finished. I hope Sen. Sanders does not run...choosing country over personal. ambition.

[GaryCnf]

209. Revisionist history

Obama was abandoned by the f'ing blue dogs in 2014. They would not even say his name.

Let me guess, you're blaming liberals for not supporting the same blue dogs who abandoned Obama.

Is that about it?

[Demsrule86]

216. I give you a post discussing calling Pres. Obama a used car salesman

I give you DU posts showing how unfairly Pres. Obama was treated. Consider the last one is from March 2014...just before we lost the Senate and as a result got Gorsuch. Pay attention to the last one as the argument was that there so many Obamabots here at DU. This was in March of of an election year... Damn it, Democrats everywhere should have been Obamabots IE supportive of the president.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734511

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10026887802

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024728184

The actual quote made by William Pitt (deleted later)

Actual quote: "Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman."
Now there were extenuating circumstance as WP'S wife was ill and he was upset about the ACA. but if you look back in time you will many posts slamming President Obama.

[NurseJackie]

223. Geeze! He seems like a real asshole.

What a jerk!

[sheshe2]

248. Said he never voted for Hill.

swan song.

[NurseJackie]

256. From what I can see, he has some sympathetic die-hard fans and defenders around here.

Funny thing... occasionally someone will sing-his-praises or defend-his-honor... and whenever they do whatever esteem I have for that person is slightly diminished. You can learn a lot about someone based on who they admire.

I've always heard: When people show you their true selves... believe them.

[sheshe2]

260. True dat.

I've always heard: When people show you their true selves... believe them.

I do.

[Demsrule86]

273. Well, his wife was very ill... But we have to support our Democratic presidents.

I mean Sanders asked for a primary challenger in 12. 2012 was touch and go. It turned out all right but those of us working the campaign were worried in the early days. Bill Clinton and Joe Biden did much of the heavy lifting. And Hillary helped as well. You have to have reasonable expectations and congressional races are just as important as presidential elections. We have to turn out for them. As the saying goes...'you want a liberal president, give him a liberal Congress"

I should say I was a lurker back then...I was scared tor really participate...I signed up at some point but I was scared to post. ! I worked a great deal too. I think I made some posts about electoral stuff a ... we needed telephone bank people...that sort of stuff. But to actually answer a post...no way. My sis in law was ill so I needed to be home more, and I took the plunge at Du...I was so bored at home! And I have enjoyed talking to really nice people like you! Sis beat cancer and had a hip replacement. God bless her...she even went door to door with me to get out the vote in 08 and 12. She is a trouper. She has insufficient veins so she couldn't do all that walking in 16. But after treatment she plans to get out and help elect Democrats this year.

[GaryCnf]

228. Coming from William Pitt

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

AND do not think for a second that the stuff you have linked to didn't burn my ass too.

However, on the other side, I was active in both Obama presidential campaigns AND in Bernie's primary campaign. In fact, I bet I was more active than the majority of the Bernie bashers in Secretary Clinton's GE campaign, returning to the same groups I spoke to during the primary to convince them that a candidate doesn't have to agree with their first choice on every point in order to deserve their support.

Back in 2014, I watched the faces in my community when red state Dem after red state Dem refused to stand up for the ACA, refused to stand up for criminal justice reform, and refused to stand up against them getting gunned down in the street by the cops. All I can do is tell you is that if you think Pitt kept more people home in the communities I worked during the campaign than the Obama-shunning red state Democrats, you would be incorrect.

As I said before, though, what you described cannot be denied and was complete b.s. I agree.

[Demsrule86]

272. It is not just William Pitt...there were plenty of DUers attacking pres. Obama.

He got a 100 likes on the post that was deleted. It wasn't just red state Dems...either. The left left was furious over not getting single payer. The red state Dems knew they would lose and yet they still voted for it...you might not agree with them on some policy but in the end they came through. The ACA has save thousands and thousands of lives. Perriello who ran in a primary for governor has talked about how Nancy said that many would lose their seats but it was the right thing to do. I have so much respect for that Congress and for Nancy Pelosi. Without her there would be no healthcare. Perriello is a good guy although he has held pro-life views...but he worked his ass off to elect Northam after the primary. Hope he runs for a congressional seat.

I was going to post some more of this Obama bashing shit but it is too depressing...it is there if you want to look at it...Fact is Obama was abandoned in 10 and for six years we played on the GOP turf. We held the presidency for eight years. Imagine what could have been accomplished if voters had turned out. In 14 the voters stayed home ...very low approval ratings and we go Gorsuch.

[GaryCnf]

300. Trust me, no argument here.

I saw some stuff, heard about others.

It doesn't change what I described but it would be dishonest and inaccurate to deny what you are saying.

[mcar]

288. To be precise

He was upset about ACA because he didn't bother to find out in advance if his wife's expensive medications would be covered under their new insurance plan when they moved.

I and a few other DUers helped him to solve the problem within an hour of his ridiculous OP. Still he kept it up for days, if not weeks, while many DUers piled on with group Obama hate. He finally self deleted, then did his usual apology OP.

[Blue_true]

302. WilliamPitt. As bad as Manny was, very devisive. nt

[sheshe2]

250. It wasn't blue dogs that abandoned Obama.

Unless you are calling out many DUers here as blue dogs.

I was a supporter of his since he threw his hat in the ring, actually it was at the Democratic Convention as key not speaker. I came to DU just before the 2012 election. There was so much vitriol against him that all his supporters stayed in the Barack Obama Group and were forced to put headers on their OPs.

******This is Posted in the Barack Obama Group*******

Didn't work, we were still stalked and hidden there. Obama was hated here. Fact!

[GaryCnf]

267. I'm pretty much in agreement

That Obama got a huge ration of crap here. However, to say that he was anything less than abandoned by blue dog politicians running in 2014 is just not true. I worked with Obama's people during the 08 and 12 campaigns and what they did and how it was "acceptable" in establishment circles is something we didn't forget.

[Blue_true]

301. You are dead wrong.

The far left abandoned the democrats in 2010 like the poster said. Democrats were attacked by Ed Scultz on MSNBC and Cenk Urgur (whatever) on the Young Turks. President Obama and democrats were vilified on every liberal site leading up to the 2010 midterms, even when their accomplishments were HISTORIC. All the bluedogs got wiped out in 2010, there fucking none left in 2014 except maybe four.

[GaryCnf]

306. Keep up

As far as you even speaking about how the party allowing Democratic candidates to abandon Obama during his second term played down where I walk . . . don't. WE put Obama in the White House, not your money and not your machine.

[Blue_true]

309. You are still wrong.

Obama was abandoned in the 2010 midterms by the far left, that precipitated issues like 2014. Maybe if people had protected democrats and made sure the controlled Congress in 2010, 2012 and 2014, we may not have Trump or Gorsuch.

[GaryCnf]

312. W-h-i-t-e-w-a-s-h

[mcar]

276. Wrong

President Obama's supporters on this site were mocked and ridiculed for 8 years. Do some research. Check out the infamous POSUCS thread and come back and correct your statement.

[True Blue American]

46. Yes!

I did not join the Obama train at first because I did not know enough about him.

Boy,did I lose Democratic friends. Next election I was impressed with him. I was 😮 how many Internet friends became angry with me.

So,yes it has always been like this.

[George II]

254. Shortly after Obama was sworn in, 2009, there were unbelievable attacks on him...

....because, in a few short months, he hadn't already fulfilled all his campaign promises.

It go so bad that I left this place for about two years.

[Blue_true]

307. Yeah, Manny Goldstein was the leader of that attack.

I really like Sid Dithers because he was the only one that consistently stood up to that asshole, and Sid is freaking Canadian, if I remember correctly.

[George II]

315. I don't know if he's Canadian, but he does live in Toronto.

[betsuni]

323. There was one guy who claimed to have left the U.S. in late 2009 because of Obama.

As if!

[dae]

7. It was but never to this extreme, SSDD with so many.

[Greybnk48]

47. It has NEVER been as bad as it is now.

So many threads devolve into nasty snarking. And there's a Bernie psychosis here that I suspect is being fomented by outsiders.

We need to shut it down.

[sheshe2]

251. Yes it was that bad with Obama.

He was vilified on Democratic Underground.

[mcar]

291. It was worse

For 8 years, those of us who supported our Democratic President were mocked and ridiculed on this democratic site.

[zentrum]

53. That's true too.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Fuck yeah, REC!

Anti-Bernie OP's play into the hands of those who divide us (i.e. Russian hackers), but so many on this site continue to feed that beast.

Not ME, man!

[NCTraveler]

3. "CANNOT discuss the elements of a 'democratic society'"

It is discussed often and at a high level by many, including here.

A realistic understanding of what is going on makes it crystal clear this isn't a "Bernie" problem alone.

Why didn't you start a conversation about that to which you speak without starting it "DU's Bernie problem"?

Bernie has little to nothing to do with anything you mention past your topic line. Of course your topic line is what will blow the conversation up. Hmmmm. Could that be the point?

[Dennis Donovan]

6. ...because there is a REAL Bernie problem on DU

Go back to DU2 and look at the long-time posters who you do NOT see anymore. Driven off in 2016.

The PROGRESSIVE DU wing is on life support now...

[NCTraveler]

8. "because there is a REAL Bernie problem on DU"

I didn't say there wasn't.

"The PROGRESSIVE DU wing is on life support now..."

I'm more energized than ever.

[Dennis Donovan]

10. I know, and I've got your back!

[NCTraveler]

12. Happy Saturday.

[DanTex]

13. The posters driven off were not progressives. They supported Trump over Hillary.

They left because the admins enforced the rule about supporting Democratic candidates in general elections.

[Dennis Donovan]

16. That is utter nonsense

Bernie is considered a Democrat by the DU admins...

[JI7]

18. They supported trump over Clinton and continue to do so

[Dennis Donovan]

23. Broad brush nonsense, fueled by russian hacking...

Every person I know who supported Bernie in the primaries voted for Secretary Clinton in the GE.

Please stop with the nonsensical strawmen?

[Dennis Donovan]

25. Oy vey

...more nonsense.

[stonecutter357]

37. see JRP .

[Dennis Donovan]

39. Are you SURE that JPR wasn't started to divide DU? Using a beloved, passed DUer?

Apparently, DU was on the radar enough to be severely hacked on election day.

Think about it, my friend.

[DanTex]

85. Regardless of why it was started, it exists to this day, and those "progressives" that left DU

are over there, singing the praises of Jill Stein and Putin and Trump and pushing Pizzagate and Seth Rich conspiracies.

[sarah FAILIN]

60. I agree

But say a word against him and see how fast your post gets deleted. It ticks me off that we can't discuss current issues because of this.

[Dennis Donovan]

63. It's way more "say a word against HER"

I found this out personally last May...

[sarah FAILIN]

77. Wrong.

The case for you being punished for saying anything against her is realistic as she is no longer in politics. He however is and he is still involved currently in things I'd like to discuss freely but can not.

[Plucketeer]

94. +1M nt

[LuvLoogie]

73. Bernie is not considered a Democrat by Bernie. Just ask him.

It's like calling a horseshoe crab a crab. You could cook it and eat it, but it would suck.

[Eliot Rosewater]

84. yep

[Me.]

95. Yes It's Like The Twilight Zone Of Democrats

If the Jeopardy answer was 'The Independent Senator From Vermont' we all know what the question would be

[NurseJackie]

97. You're absolutely correct! He doesn't! (So I won't either.)

I take him at his word on that!

[Me.]

218. That's 2 Of Us

[Sparkly]

342. 3.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

274. Great analogy! May I borrow it?

[LuvLoogie]

321. Sure.

[DanTex]

76. It's the truth. The people who left wanted to support Trump over Hillary.

There are plenty of people here who like and support Bernie. The ones that left are the people who supported Trump.

[emulatorloo]

198. Folks who cited Fox News and Joe DiGenova to smear Democrats arent

“Progressives”. I really wish you wouldn’t engage in revisionist history about the JPR crowd’s time at DU.

They promoted right-wing conspiracy theories here, they recc’d up threads saying AA and LGBT were mentally ill simply because they didn’t like their chosen primary candidate. They posted egregious right wing cartoons. They got in bed with virulent anti-choice websites to smear Planned Parenthood. They smeared BLM leadership as nothing but power-hungry black lesbians. The list goes on and on.

[zentrum]

59. Proof?

And please let's not observe that little twist where he is blamed for her defeat because, as the theory goes, huge numbers---millions!-- "obeyed" the so-called Bernie-Bros and Sarandon and stayed home. What an insult to Democrats that is.

Many progressives felt driven off and still feel silenced.

[DanTex]

81. Check JPR, where the same people are free to speak their right-wing minds. It's pretty ugly.

The people who supported Hillary against Trump are still here. The ones who didn't left. Yes, the Trump supporters here were silenced, as they should have. They weren't progressives.

[Demsrule86]

214. And they still ban people for something ...not sure what.

[David__77]

180. I agree with your sentiment.

There is a lot of snark aimed at those who supported and support Sanders.

[Blue_true]

183. Come on.

The holier than thou BS get's tiring. Everyone on DU are progressives, even people that I have some disagreements with. Is there a difference in how progressive people on DU are? Yes, some are more progressive than others, but I have not met people here recently who are not solidly progressive and support all values that one can identify as Democratic Party values.

[emulatorloo]

199. Exactly, we are people who all share the same the same core values.

[JI7]

17. Those people supported and continue to support trump over Clinton

[Renew Deal]

28. The Trump supporting JP crew

And the Russian bots that egged them on.

[Dennis Donovan]

33. More nonsense. Please stop feeding the Russian beast?

Pretty please with sugar on top?

[boston bean]

48. This is gaslighting. We all know what happened here. You will not tewrite the facts with wild

Conspiracy theories.

Those persons did in fact support trump.

[Dennis Donovan]

50. Okay, so the Russian hack is "fake news"

[boston bean]

62. The russian hack is real and it was to harm hillary and elect trump.

[Dennis Donovan]

65. Bernie supported Hillary, NOT Trump...

[boston bean]

68. We are talking about people here on DU who supportrted him and went full on trump in the GE.

[Dennis Donovan]

89. "On DU"

I tend to hang with Liberal Democrats. Have done so since 1972 when I was stuffing envelopes and hanging lit on doorknobs for the GREAT George McGovern.

EVERY Liberal Democrat friend I have now, 45 years later, in real life, supported PBO in the primaries in 2K8, but DEFINITELY supported Secretary Clinton in 2016 in the GE..

Real life, LIBERALS supported Bernie in the primaries and Secretary Clinton in the GE.

The "Bernie Bro" thing just didn't exist in "real life", in the MULTITUDES of my Liberal friends. Not a single one. None, nil, zip...

[MrsCoffee]

98. Your anecdotes don't prove a thing.

Especially for those of us who encountered plenty of Bernie Bros online and in real life.

I guess you just have multitudes of more liberal friends than the rest of us.

[Dennis Donovan]

101. Real life?

Meaning "facebook"?

[MrsCoffee]

105. Are you saying I don't have a community or friends?

I don't live online.

No need for being so silly.

[elmac]

169. I would bet big bucks

that Cambridge Analytica came up with the Bernie Bros idea just to divide the party' I for one never ran into any progressive that called themselves a Bernie Bro.

[betsuni]

176. You lose. Just one of many:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511519949

I've never seen a polar bear. Yet they exist.

[boston bean]

120. I know that to be untrue. Just look at JPR. Those were many long time DUers. Many who were critical

of Obama. Hated Hillary and supported Bernie then moved to trumpass.

You are wrong, ignorant or lying about it.

You cannot rewrite history. No more gaslighting please. I have spoken the truth. You have not.

[Dennis Donovan]

130. You know FOR SURE JPR is NOT a Russian thing?

..because what I saw there was OTT, instantly recognizable as nonsense. Maybe I'm smart enough to know nonsense when I see it?

[boston bean]

140. I have known most of those posters for over a decade on DU.

I think they always swung toward conspiracy and are easy marks for russian propaganda. But I don’t believe they are russian agents.

Just some damn stupid people who are now a danger to democracy. And to be honest a real pain in the ass when they were here.

[Dennis Donovan]

144. Damn those liberals!

They tend to fuck things up, like 12 hr workdays and child labor!

Not for nothing, but we're on the same side so CHILL and stop bashing LIBERAL Bernie!

[boston bean]

148. What are you attempting to do here? Tell us we didnt see what we saw. To churn it up some more.

Your last response to me was so intelligent, man. I was almost breathless reading it.

[Dennis Donovan]

153. Bait... ignore

Sorry, but not taking it...

[boston bean]

154. Yeah. More gaslighting.

[Dennis Donovan]

163. No, bigger fish to fry...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210405985

Enjoy your day!

[stevenleser]

187. That's what we always get when we point out the actual behavior as it was. Gaslighting.

People want to pretend what happened here and throughout the blogosphere and elsewhere didn't happen.

I would like to believe it didn't happen. But Trump won in 2016 just like Bush won in 2000 and it's because of the kinds of things that happened that stupidly split support away from the Democratic nominee.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

299. They'll never stop, but, neither will Bernie. And long after he's gone...

his liberal legacy will live on.

[emulatorloo]

200. It is not a Russian thing. It was started by DUers

Honestly it doesn’t sound like you were around when those people were still active here. They said similar things here as they say over there.

[LisaM]

167. I worked for McGovern in 1972, before I could vote.

I am a liberal Democrat and I supported Hillary in both the 2008 and 2016 primaries. I am tired of being told I'm not progressive. I have put in a lot of sweat equity on Democratic campaigns and I am well left of center. Not all progressives need - or want - a candidate who campaigns with big, showy rallies. Give me someone who listens to voters, digs deep on a wide variety of issues, and bounces back up from defeat stronger and wiser than ever, because those are the strengths that assist with governing once the campaign is over.

[Dennis Donovan]

172. That is a fair argument...

...and THANK YOU!

[dawg day]

245. Umm, lots of "real life" liberals supported Clinton in the primaries.

Liberal women weren't universally in with Sanders, you might have noticed. Clinton was much more openly progressive about women's issues than Sanders, who of course supported women's issues but never seemed to see that as a priority.

"Putting economics first" isn't any more progressive than "putting equality first."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

298. Same here... and I'm SICK of being maligned.

[MrsCoffee]

74. Bernie supported Bernie.

[Eliot Rosewater]

92. yep

[Dennis Donovan]

99. Nonsense. EVERY Bernie supporter I KNOW PERSONALLY voted for Secretary Clinton

[MrsCoffee]

103. Did YOU KNOW THEM ALL?

Golly. I'm sure your experience is different because of your multitude of liberal friends.

Come on now, quit being silly.

[Dennis Donovan]

127. Personally...

not via DU. Can you say the same?

Not for nothing, but calling ME "silly" (vs my post) is in violation of TOS. But I'm not a "alert al" so I'm giving you a pass. Let's discuss the merits of the OP w/o PA's?
'

[MrsCoffee]

128. For someone who likes quoting DU rules you should read the one about quoting DU rules.

And everyone acts silly now and again, even me.

[Dennis Donovan]

136. ...and that rule is?

Yes, calling out DU rules *can* fall into the META thing. But, when NOT in an OP, the rules especially apply...

[MrsCoffee]

137. I can't read them for you. You'll have to go look them up.

[NurseJackie]

106. Ha!! :-D

[Dennis Donovan]

138. .

[betsuni]

162. All dogs are mammals.

No cats are dogs.
Therefore, no cats are mammals.

[lapucelle]

192. ...

Some S supported P
Therefore all S supported P.

The middle term appears to be missing.

[Demsrule86]

208. Several of my kids friend who supported Sen. Sanders voted for Stein or just stayed home. I am proud

to say my entire family voted for Hillary Clinton. None of my kids support another run by Sen. Sanders in 20. The fear is it will help Trump win.

[Old Vet]

152. IMO only, It looked like it pained him to support Clinton.........

He did the minimum to help her, He could of put a stop to people screaming his name at the convention. To me it was a half assed endorsement, To say the least.

[Blue_true]

190. I pretty much saw the same thing.

He did almost nothing to help her and get people really excited about voting. He has spent so much time attacking democrats that he painted himself into a corner. I fear a repeat if he wants to run again and lose the primary to someone else, I really hope that I am wrong on that fear because we are going to need everyone on an oar and pulling hard, we are facing true facism today, it must be rejected hard and certain.

[stonecutter357]

34. Driven off ? No they left for JPR ! lol .

[Dennis Donovan]

35. yawn...

[Maven]

72. LOL. Driven off?

They made this site a toxic cesspool of hatred for HRC, peddling every conspiracy theory and RW/Russian lie about her. When she clinched the nomination and they couldn't get away with their bullshit anymore, they formed a separatist site to continue trashing Democrats.

Fuck them.

DU may have had a Bernie problem, but it's not the one you're thinking of.

[Eliot Rosewater]

93. I cant believe I read "driven off" , fuck this, I cant take it anymore

[Maven]

100. They are always victims.

And everything their leader does is right and justified.

This OP and some of the random posters popping up to chime in and keep it alive are quite interesting, I'd say.

[stevenleser]

188. Victims who use gaslighting at every opportunity. "What you saw and lived through didn't happen!"

We all wish it didn't happen. But it did.

[NurseJackie]

109. LOL! I spotted that too!

[emulatorloo]

139. Thanks Maven. Thats the truth of what happened. Tiring of revisionist history we are seeing

[WhiteTara]

112. One of those "driven off" now tells me

that they are conservative, not a democrat and love that 2A.

Bernie is not and never was a democrat and when people demand that he is, creates the reactions that he gets.

[Demsrule86]

203. you don't see anymore from the other side either...and the process at that time

was manipulated.

[NurseJackie]

11. Agreed. This thread serves no good purpose. There's just one solution:

... find the button that looks like the one shown below, and click it!

[Dennis Donovan]

19. Bernie is a Democrat by admin's standards

So your passive-aggressive post is in violation of DU's TOS. Sorry, but it's true...

...not for nothing, the OP is also in violation of DU's TOS, as it's meta..

[NurseJackie]

21. Ha!! :-D

[Demsrule86]

204. I hope that changes.

I don't think Sen. Sanders is treated unfairly...usually someone brings up his own words often critical of the Democratic Party or an individual Democrat...he has also recently in Texas implied Democrats 'did him wrong in 16'. That keeps the prior election on people's minds and causes divisions.

[CanSocDem]

14. 'Elements' like...

...free tuition, universal medical care, and corporate influences usually come up ONLY in a discussion about whether or not "Bernie's" values are 'achievable', 'realistic' or not on the DNC platform.

Pardon my reference to an OP that precisely illustrates my point. "Topic lines" (when comprehensible) are at least half the value of the post.


.

[NCTraveler]

22. Many people support and promote those ideas.

You could have easily started a discussion about any one of them.

There is no such thing as free tuition. It’s crap and damages the position. We should all stop promoting the term.

[CanSocDem]

29. Those are...

...off the top of my head, fundamental principles of a democratic society, yet you think they are unachievable or simply "crap". Which is also a reason not to 'start a discussion' as somebody would jump in and say the only thing we have to worry about is electing a woman.

"Free tuition" and "free medical care" is possible. However, you live in the world's most out of control free market and consumerist society. At this point your only hope is to start appreciating the values of a social democracy.

.

[NCTraveler]

40. Ive never said such a thing.

‘yet you think they are unachievable or simply "crap"’

“Only thing we have to worry about is electing a woman.”



Now we’re getting to your point.

“Free tuition and free medical care is possible.”

No, it’s not. They are poor phrases used that damage a righteous goal.

[Blue_true]

224. Yes, the terminology is wrong, the goal is right.

I live in an area that is vastly dependent on healthcare. The area used to have two hospitals, both small. Since Obamacare, the largest hospital has grown into a mega hospital, a second big hospital has sprung up nearby, the small hospital has become a large hospital, specialized medical procedure hospitals have sprung up, like specialized cancer and heart clinics. Obamacare has been really good to the area. When students could get fairer loans and grants increased, the local college has expanded to have a serious footprint and there is an educational facility just for training nurses, firefighters and EMTs. So social medicine works for patients and economies.

[Blue_true]

193. Free tuition and free medical care.

Are beneficial to a society. One of the paradoxes is they have to be implemented and stay in place long enough for their benefits to take hold well enough for everyone to see those benefits. So, we are stuck with safe attempts to at least set the pathway there like the ACA and the government taking over the student loan program - if you look at such programs in the absolute, they clearly don't go far enough, but if you look at them in terms of the best that we can get established, then they are a starting point. I really don't think we will get real change until we eliminate republicans from office all over the country and hold that absolute power long enough for effective policy to take root. The other option is for us to get leveled like most of Europe and be forced to implement a social democracy concept where citizen basic needs are mostly met - but, even in Europe, as the ravages of WWII become more distant and societies there wealthier and more diverse, fascism is starting to return strongly - In a society where some feel that if the lesser among society gain, they lose, fascism has appeal, that reality is what keeps republicans in office.

[CanSocDem]

197. "Forced" into social democracy....????

Most people coming from a corrupt, unhealthy and exploitative society would welcome a "social democracy concept". Everybody would have good health, good jobs and freedom from the fear of government over-reach like bad cops and bad judges.

Of course that doesn't appeal to everybody but per my OP, I wondered why not here.


.

[Blue_true]

221. Look, we live in an unhealthy society.

I fear that something really bad has to happen to get people to except a social benefits model for America. The Great Depression led to New Deal programs (although, as I have pointed out, African Americans were excluded from benefitting directly, benefitting only on the goodness of charitable Whites). But New Deal programs have been under attack since 1980, as the nation has gotten collectively richer, a desire to end those programs or change them for alledged efficiency has gained a larger constituency (I am not arguing that everyone has gotten richer as the nation has gotten richer because that is not remotely the case, income inequality has actually gotten much worse). In order for the USA citizens to massively embrace a social model for society, this country will likely have to be leveled like most of Eurooe was in WWII.

[Demsrule86]

205. You are right...and let me tell you the Hope Scholarship in Georgia does not take incomes into

account ( similar to Sen. Sander's plan), and guess who ends up going most of the time -the well to do. And then there are the new cars. Some kids who don't need money for school get cars using Hope money nicknamed Hopemobiles. It used to be that the lottery funded this but now taxes go to it also...so poor folks who are disadvantaged in using this program pay for the wealthier kids to go to college and/or buy a new car. I lived in Georgia and saw it. My sis says it us much worse now.

[Blue_true]

225. Georgia is republican led.

Get rid of republicans and restructure programs so that they help those that need help. I honestly don't understand why a person that has adequate resources would take money that was intended for people that don't have adequate resources.

[kstewart33]

80. Why does so much of DU today have to be about Bernie, good and bad?

He's getting far more attention here than from the media and social media (eg, Twitter and Facebook).

Seems that some DUers are pushing him and others are still quite ticked off about him especially after the 2016 election. I admit I've participated in this a few times, but really....

Can we just move on at least for awhile? This back-and-forth does no good for the cohesiveness of our community.

[NCTraveler]

108. I think that is a fair question.

I can only speak for myself. No one here agrees with me. Usually I look over my thoughts when I’m at odds with everyone here but on this I feel certian.

1) He has not stopped campaigning for himself, not the promotion of moving forward on accomplishing his ideas. 2) This is where I part ways with my DU friends. Sanders easily wins the primary this time around. By way of campaigning he has held most of his base together. In a strong eight person field he walks away with it.

I’m not ok with what I believe our current situation is with respect to that.

[David__77]

201. I dont think Sanders is likely to be nominee.

I think he does hold a “MAD” button (mutually assured destruction). Not because he wants to hold it; still, he does hold it. Meaning, he would not go down alone. And I think that’s upsetting to some people.

I don’t think really at his core wanted to win in 2016. I don’t imagine that has since changed. I voted for him because I thought he was the best option, while not considering him good at the game of candidacy.

I do not think Sanders isn’t relevant to today’s Democratic politics.

[kstewart33]

219. NCT, I mostly agree with you.

Sanders has always been a very skilled advocate of what he believes in. But he is not so interested in doing the patient nitty-gritty work to implement his vision. He also has a "my way or the highway" attitude which has not served him well in Congress. As you say, he does do a good bit of self-campaigning.

I'm not sure that he will win the nomination. First, the party must agree to give him all the benefits of being a Democratic candidate. They'll probably do that but not before hearing a tideway of protest by Dems who believe, as I do, he was ultimately a spoiler candidate. Also, I don't sense the excitement about Sanders that existed beginning in 2015. Yes, many young people support him. However, intense dislike by many in the party, Sanders' age, his refusal to release his tax returns, his wife's troubles with the FBI, and his opposition to Russian sanctions all play a part in the decline in his support.

And then there's one factor that sticks with me: Sanders refuses to join the party he wants to lead. I hope that the DNC establishes a new policy - you must be a Democrat to run as a Democrat. Sanders is essentially saying, "Your party isn't good enough for me, but yeah, I'd like your $$$ and other benefits and to lead your party." Galling and for many, infuriating.

If another Dem emerges without most of the barriers that Hillary faced, it will be a real contest.

[RiverStone]

159. Our focus should be Nov 2018 and beating enablers of facism.

People still go for the bait here. Much bigger fish to fry!!

Says a Berie supporter who voted for Hillary.

[Blue_true]

230. I agree, go into November United and let later stuff sort itself out.

I do want to see us more united than in 2016, there were major attacks on all sides in that primary and that was discouraging. Personally, I hope neither Biden nor Bernie run in 2020, time to move on to the next generation for that job. I would love us to put up a young vibrant candidate who can create excitement against the doddering Orangeman.

[Renew Deal]

27. Bernie was used as a tool of division by the Russians

His only purpose in 2016 was to hurt Hillary. He never took full responsibility for his actions. And then there was the lying about joining the Democratic Party.

[ucrdem]

30. That is the long and short of it.

Well said.

[CanSocDem]

31. That is unbelievable.

But thank you for illustrating my point.



.

[Greybnk48]

49. Yep! There it is. n/t

[Jim Lane]

88. Several other posts have also done a good job of illustrating your point. (n/t)

[stevenleser]

261. Two of that person's four statements are demonstrably true and correct. You can disagree with the

others. But Renew Deal's 1st and 4th statements are 100% factual.

1. Bernie was used as a tool of division by the Russians.

Well, we know this is true now and Sanders has addressed this by saying he did not collude. But the Russians definitely used him as a tool to divide the Democratic Party.

2. His only purpose in 2016 was to hurt Hillary.

This is opinion. Depending how he means it I agree. I don't believe Sanders would have had a chance in the general. I think he knew that even if he won the nomination he would have been a long shot. I also think he knew that a unified party behind Hillary would have beaten Trump.

3. He never took full responsibility for his actions.

This is opinion but I agree 100%. I think Sanders knows quite well that without him running for President, Hillary would be the President right now. But he hasn't taken responsibility for that.

4. And then there was the lying about joining the Democratic Party.

This also turned out to be deception. He 'joined' the party only to try to get the nomination because he knew he couldnt win the Presidency as an independent, then as soon as that was no longer in the cards, he jettisoned identifying as a Democrat.

[Dennis Donovan]

42. Using Senator Wellstone as your avatar while attacking Liberal Democrats...

...he weeps in Heaven.

[Renew Deal]

44. Bernie is not a Democrat

[Dennis Donovan]

45. Per the admins, he certainly is...

[MrsCoffee]

67. Admin don't get to decide that.

It may fly for how they run their site, but just because he gets treated as a Dem HERE does NOT make him one.

In order to actually be a Democrat, he'd have to join the party. And not for five minutes.

[aka-chmeee]

78. And to paraphrase one Earl Butz,

If you don't play the game, don't try to make the rules.

[George II]

263. Ah good ol' Earl Butz. I've been wracking my brain trying to remember his name. I've used that....

.....comment by him for about 2 years, specifically:

"He no playa the game, he no maka the rules."

Similarly, we don't see the Commissioner of the NFL telling the American League they should get rid of the designated hitter.

I think Butz was also the clown who got the USDA to determine, when speaking of balanced school lunches, that ketchup was a vegetable!

[aka-chmeee]

286. I thought that was under St. Ronnie..

Butz was in Nixon's cabinet until his mouth got him fired.

[George II]

290. That's right, it was Nixon. Damn, now you've got me thinking again, who was the guy....

....who claimed ketchup was a "vegetable" in REAGAN'S (I stand corrected) administration? This is going to drive me crazy.

[aka-chmeee]

293. It is attributed to John Rusling Block

Ag secretary under Reagan.

[George II]

294. Thanks. They sure come up with some losers, don't they?

[NurseJackie]

220. ...

[stevenleser]

262. The bigger and more relevant point is he doesn't self identify that way.

The admins control DU, they don't control reality.

[Demsrule86]

211. You make a false assumption that those who support Sen. Sanders are more liberal or progressive.

This is untrue. That is the message that many get from a few Sanders supporters. Most have moved on...the condescension is appalling. The election is over. Unless you live in Vermont, there is no need to' support' Sen. Sanders. I do not consider my myself a Hillary supporter at this time. It is over. Let it go. I am ready for fresh faces in 20...no one who was in the 16 primary should run.

[nini]

303. You assume all LIberal Democrats support Sanders

I don't and I'm sure there are plenty more here who agree. Sanders does NOT own liberal values - I'm sick as shit of hearing that crap.

[MrsCoffee]

66. So true.

[Cryptoad]

75. "was" ????????????????

geeez

[Eliot Rosewater]

96. Thank you

[PDittie]

32. Just wait until he announces for 2020

You've already seen the Joe Biden/Kamala Harris/Oprah/Joe Kennedy boosters here trying to get out in front. There will be an ABB wave of hate like you never contemplated in 2016, all under the guise of "he's not a Democrat".

[shenmue]

38. Because he isn't

[Dennis Donovan]

43. Sorry, shenmue...

But per the admins, he is.

[MrsCoffee]

71. Sorry Dennis, but the admins don't run the Democratic party.

They cannot make him a Democrat. There is only one way for that to happen.

They can say how they want their site run... but that's it.

In the real world, he is not a Democrat.

[Dennis Donovan]

174. *sigh* They publicly stated the Senator Sanders is a Dem

...and they own the website.

I'm tired of posting the link - look in AtA...

[Demsrule86]

217. No they didn't except during the brief time he became a Dem perhaps not sure...they said we have to

treat him the same. He is Independent who caucuses with us not a Democrat. He has an "I" next to his name.

[Fla Dem]

332. In the TOS they clearly state Bernie Sanders is an Independent.

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[GaryCnf]

110. You can take a couple of those people out already

One was hailed as "the next Hillary" BUT advocated for Medicaid for All AND stood by Kirsten Gillebrand (now shunned - NOT for her stand on Al Franken or "Me Too" - but because she tipped the sacred cow in the process). The other is too independently wealthy to be beholding.

The fact is, the same cult of personality which is behind the Bernie attacks we see almost daily in some circles, has stripped not only those two, but other early hopefuls like Corey Booker (another favorite until he embraced Medicaid for All) from the 2020 discussion. How many more potentially effective candidates will fall because they failed the "join with Sanders on anything and your out" purity test we do not know at this point. It is safe to say, however, that this purity test is hurting our party.

[MrsCoffee]

122. So you would have rejected FDR right out of the gate.

Amazing.

[GaryCnf]

132. Nice Spin

I wouldn't take ANY of those candidates out of the mix. One is my current favorite. I am simply observing how there are a couple of candidates who were once the favorites of the ABB faction of our party and who now almost never get mentioned because they dared to actually stand with Sanders (and our stalwart House sponsor of Medicaid for All).

[Blue_true]

237. I don't think the poster said that.

But the post was written in a way where that was not clear.

[Fla Dem]

141. Sanders cult will fade eventually. He'll have his time in the spotlight and like

all one trick ponies, the attraction will fade.

[GaryCnf]

170. The "Sanders Cult"

[Blue_true]

238. I don't call it a cult.

People that support Bernie are passionate about the very same issues that we are, they just disagree with people like you and me about how to make policy on those issues. Personally, I DO feel that they are banking their hopes on the wrong politician.

[Blue_true]

236. Sorry, your post is confusing and disjointed.

Are you saying that anyone that voiced support for Medicaid for All get pilloried on DU? I honestly HAVE NOT seen that happen. Some people have issues with Bernie, honestly, I am one of those, but no one has questioned his stance on Medicaid for All, or panned any politician that voiced support for that idea.

Maybe I misunderstood your post.

[GaryCnf]

310. Maybe you understood it perfectly

A year ago, Kamala and Corey were the Sanders-stoppers. Anyone who dared question then was smeared with the same b.s. used against Sanders. The second they stood for Medicaid for All (coming as it did even as the Bernie haters were accusing him of sacrificing the ACA to save his single payer ego), they dropped off the screen. But it wasn't just that . . . They then turned around and supported Kirsten Gillibrand, the latest pariah in the eyes of some. Sad thing is that Kamala is actually liberal enough to unite the party. But then unity isn't what some people want. It's subjugation.

It's gone so far that both Biden and Joe III get more of a mention than Kamala and Corey combined.

[Fla Dem]

134. It's not just because he's not a Democrat, it because he speaks out against Democrats that

don't meet his purity test. He's a grandstander.

[emulatorloo]

146. Like every candidate, Bernie will have to answer hard questions. No coronation

His lack of financial transparency, his dark money superpac, how he plans to implement his policy, his apparent nepotism of paying his family salaries with our donations in 2016, his gaffes like blaming Clinton for not stopping Russian bots.

Bernie supporter in 2016, this time he will need to earn my vote. The best thing a Bernie supporter could do is try to help answer those questions rather than try to shut down discussion.

[Blue_true]

241. What I hope for.

First that neither Biden or Bernie chose to run.

But if Bernie does run and lose the nomination, he immediately turn and work to convince his supporters to support the nominee, like Hillary did in 2008.

If Bernie run and does win the nomination, that people like me who will vote for anyone else in the primary, immediately turn and help his General race to oust Trump. In that case, ousting Trump is the most important thing for the whole country.

I see signs that DU is going to be divided regardless of who runs. I just hope that it is a vigorous contest that comes without the personal attacks that happened in 2008 and 2016, we got lucky in 2008, the country was massively messed up and our opponent was publicly confused about how to handle the crisis. We were not unified enough in 2016 and ran into a pompous conman.

[dawg day]

277. What I hope for.

Is that NO ONE faces Trump in the 2020 election.... because he's languishing in jail by then.

[Blue_true]

308. Yeah, that works for me as long as we still win 2020. nt

[Demsrule86]

212. He is not a Democrat and must run as an independent as he left the party after his last attempt.

[Blue_true]

242. NO!!!!!!!!

His running as an independent would likely insure that we get defeated in 2020. I would prefer that he runs the primary as a democrat, get defeated by someone else, then fully support the nominee as soon as the who the nominee is becomes clear.

[Demsrule86]

264. If he runs we lose...and he will damage the party less if he runs as an independent.

[shanny]

326. You want a third-party candidate in the race?

[Demsrule86]

339. We will lose if he runs either way...so I pick the option that won't have Democrats at each other's

throats again.

[stonecutter357]

36. Auto-trash by Keyword solved my Bernie problem.

[Mr. Sparkle]

41. A lot of ppl rightly or wrongly blame Bernie , Jill Stein for the loss in the last election.

Also the fact that Bernie left the Democratic Party soon after the election.

[Greybnk48]

57. Jill Stein should never be lumped with Bernie.

She will most likely be indicted as an operative. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696

[Jim Lane]

104. You repeat a falsehood that is widely believed

You write, "Bernie left the Democratic Party soon after the election."

Before, during, and after his campaign, Bernie was registered to vote in Vermont, but never as a Democrat. Neither is Pat Leahy, for that matter. Vermont doesn't have partisan voter registration. Bernie did not change his registration.

Before, during, and after his campaign, Bernie was listed on the Senate rolls as an Independent who caucused with the Democrats.

There is a continued insinuation on DU that Bernie was somehow deceptive or that he used and then abandoned the party. That is false. The facts I stated above were always publicly known and did not change. People for whom a party label is the single most important thing in the world were free to take it into account in casting their votes. The rest of us are free to disagree.

[NurseJackie]

114. ...

[David__77]

182. Thank you for pointing out these facts.

...

[Demsrule86]

213. Jim you are a good guy, but you are wrong about this.

"Bernie Sanders will remain a member of the Democratic Party after his primary election against Hillary Clinton, his campaign manager said Wednesday.

The independent Vermont senator’s congressional website currently notes that Sanders is the “the longest serving independent member of Congress in American history,” though he caucuses with Democrats.

“If Sen. Sanders is not the nominee, will he stay in the Democratic Party forever now,” Bloomberg Politics’ Mark Halperin asked.

“Well, he is a Democrat. He’s said he’s a Democrat, and he’s gonna be [supporting] the Democratic nominee, whoever that is,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told Bloomberg Politics’ “With All Due Respect.”

“But he’s a member of the Democratic Party now for life?” Halperin pressed.

“Yes, he is,” Weaver said. “Yes, he is.”

https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-222228

[Jim Lane]

226. And Bernie is still just as much of a Democrat as he was when Weaver said that.

Did Bernie "stay" in the Democratic Party? Now, as then, he caucuses with the Democrats. Now, as then, he endorses Democratic candidates (including Hillary Clinton). Now, as then, he's featured on the Vermont Democratic Party's website in the gallery of elected officials.

The people who shriek incessantly about this so-called issue should note that Weaver used the word "stay". Bernie did nothing subsequent to Weaver's statement that could reasonably be called leaving the party.

I know none of that is enough for some people on DU. Here's a point that some of us consider important, though: If the members of the Democratic caucus (including the two independents) hold their Senate seats this fall, and the Democrats flip precisely two others (say, Nevada and Arizona although there are possibilities elsewhere), then the lineup in the Senate will be: Democrats 51, Republicans 49. BUT that's counting Bernie and Angus King as Democrats. If either of them switches to caucusing with the Republicans, then the split will be 50-50, Pence will break the tie, and the Republicans will stay in control. Counting Bernie and King as Democrats, though, means that the members of the Democratic caucus will take over as committee and subcommittee chairs.

Those chairships, however, would be horribly tainted by the presence of that vile Bernie Sanders in the Democratic caucus. I suggest you send a stiffly worded letter to all 47 D-after-their-names Democrats, demanding that they expel Bernie Sanders and Angus King from the caucus. After all, this vital principle of formal party identification is far more important than any of the substantive issues that might be influenced by such trivia as committee chairships.

[NurseJackie]

257. ...

[stevenleser]

266. Jim, you realize that you are starting to sound like Sarah Sanders apologia for Trump at this point

right?

No one but the most ardent true believer would buy what you are saying right now. It's completely ridiculous given the link and proof to which you are responding.

[lapucelle]

295. Sanders listed his party affiliation as "Democratic"

on his statement of candidacy in April 2015. He told reporters in NH in 2015 that he would run as a Democrat in future elections.

At the moment, however, BS does not consider himself a Democrat.

http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/533/15031422533/15031422533.pdf

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/24/sanders-betrays-democrats-announces-reelection-run-as-an-independent/

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

[Jim Lane]

305. He told the FEC he was running for the Democratic nomination.

But let me ask you a question. Suppose Bernie were to:
* tell the Clerk of the Senate to list him as a Democrat;
* go to his local Board of Elections and demand to be reregistered as a Democrat even though it's impossible; and
* get a big blue D in a circle tattooed on his butt.

Is there one single person among the DUers who now frequently bash Bernie who would switch over to supporting him?

We can never know for sure, but my guess is an emphatic No.

[NurseJackie]

311. So pessimistic. Wow.

[stevenleser]

317. It would depend how he would behave after that.

Last edited Sun Mar 25, 2018, 06:56 AM - Edit history (1)

If he would still go around attacking the party and other Democrats then no, for sure no ones opinion of him here would change.

If he changed to a “D” as part of an effort to really support the party, that would be a different story, but he would have to show us that he means it and it’s a true change of direction.

[lapucelle]

324. Sanders listed his party affiliation as Democratic

on the his FEC document, and told reporters in NH that he would run for office as a Democrat from that point on. While he cannot register as a Democrat in Vermont, he can run as a Democrat, and he chooses not to. BS has a history of saying that he both is and isn't a Democrat.

Here's what he told Chuck Todd in September:

CHUCK TODD: "Speaking of the Democratic Party, you're, in some ways, the most influential member of it. Yet you're not technically a member of it. The filing deadline to file as a Democrat for the United States Senate in Vermont in 2018 is about three months earlier than it is for you to file as an Independent. It's in May. Do you plan to file as a Democrat or as an Independent, when you run for reelection in 2018?"

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: "Well, I will do what I have done in the past. Let me just say something about this, the current model of the Democratic Party obviously is not working. Republicans control the House, the Senate. They control the White House. They control two-thirds of the governors offices throughout this country. In my view, Chuck, what we need to do is to reach out to Independents. There are a heck of a lot more Independents in this country than there are Republicans or Democrats. I am an Independent. I've always been a Democrat. I have worked within the Democratic caucus in the House and the Senate for over 25 years. I'll continue to do that."

If the situation inspires mistrust, confusion, or skepticism on the part of some votes, it is hardly surprising.

[Jim Lane]

328. "BS has a history of saying that he both is and isn't a Democrat."

That's because "is" and "isn't" each has an element of truth. Life isn't always simple.

For example, from the point of view of ousting Charles Grassley as Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and replacing him with a D-after-the-name Democrat like Leahy, Feinstein, or Whitehouse, Bernie is a Democrat.

From the point of view of making a map about the Senate midterms, Bernie and Angus King are sometimes given their own color (neither blue nor red) and are sometimes just shown as blue. At least one mapmaker splits the difference, showing them as blue but with a green dot. If "issues" like this matter to you, then you just go right on writing about them at every opportunity. It's obvious that you'll have plenty of company on DU. The rest of us care more about Grassley and his ilk.

[lapucelle]

333. While life may not be simple, this is simple.

Insofar as any politician engages in manipulation via obfuscation, there are voters who would see the issue as very important because it speaks to character, trustworthiness, and principled commitment.

[NurseJackie]

330. I enjoy watching the pretzel "logic" that some people use when trying to explain and ...

... when trying to justify why he says what he says. Or that when he says what he says, he doesn't really mean what he says. Or that it's an "attack" whenever what he says is quoted.

While he cannot register as a Democrat in Vermont, he can run as a Democrat, and he chooses not to.

THIS! It's amazing to see how often people use the lack of party affiliation on voter registration to imply that Bernie isn't "allowed" to run as a Democrat.

If the situation inspires mistrust, confusion, or skepticism on the part of some votes, it is hardly surprising.

Exactly! It inspires ALL of those things (and more) from me.

[frazzled]

319. Hes not a voter, hes a politician and member of Congress

And he was asked repeatedly over the years to run on the Democratic ticket. Each time he declined to do so, choosing to appear as an independent rather than a Democrat on Vermont ballots.

Vermont may not have party affiliated voter registration, but it does have political parties. Candidates affiliate themselves with those parties (or not).

The attempted explanation of “nonpartisan voter registration” is entirely irrelevant ... and, I dare say, a deception. Not surprised: just another bogus statement meant to disarm the gullible.

[Jim Lane]

322. Then tell the Democrats in Congress to boot him out of the Democratic caucus.

Then tell the Vermont Democratic Party to stop featuring him on its website.

[zentrum]

51. Agreed. I find

…..you can't say anything good about Bernie without trouble soon following. It's getting real old.

[OnDoutside]

52. I really don't get the need for this thread when the reasons are so obvious

1. The prolonging of the trashing of Hillary by Sanders and his campaign after the race was essentially over, didn't sit well with people.
2. The embarrassing scenes by Bernie's supporters at the Democratic convention only added to that.
3. The refusal of Sanders in actually joining the Democratic Party simply infuriates a lot of people here, and elsewhere.
4. On top of that, his trashing of the Democratic Party only adds further fuel to the fire, as well as appearing at events with the Our Revolution's Nina Turner (someone who continually attacks the Democratic Party).

It isn't a great mystery.

[Jim Lane]

234. Thank you for sharing your views concerning the 2016 primary.

I don't agree with you, but I appreciate your taking the time to write.

[NCTraveler]

54. DUs Bernie problem.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10405145

[rtracey]

56. The problem I have

The problem I have with Bernie, is he is not a true democrat, and actually with the new wave of anti-gun, anti-gun violence protests and new young adults getting involved, Bernie pops in for a brief moment, gets a little press coverage and leaves.... I think (IMO) he is just using this platform to further his career.

[ismnotwasm]

58. Fortunately Bernie is becoming less and less of a problem every day

As we move forward, and he is less relevant. The lessons remain however. I hope we all learned the lesson about pied piper politics vs obtainable policy. I hope we understand that the specific concerns of people of color will not be dismissed as “identity politics”. I hope we recognize systemic sexism and how easy it is to manipulate. We have many lessons. Let us learn them well.

[Blue_true]

244. The primaries of 2018 will be a test.

Bernie is getting involved in democratic primary contests. Biden is staying clear of primary contests, but is supporting any democrat that is the clear nominee to run in November.

If the candidates that Bernie is backing win, or many of them win, then Bernie IS going to be a major factor in 2020. If his preferred candidates don't do well, that could signal that he does not have enough support to win the nomination in 2020 AND the primary setbacks will be a serious setback for Bernie.

[jalan48]

61. Is it Bernie or his ideas that offend so many? Hopefully, we will get some new economic Progressives

elected in the fall. It will enable us to discuss the issues again and not the person.

[Me.]

111. Progressive Ideas Don't Offend People Here

unless they are adamantly limited to one area or topic only and what truly offends a lot of people is the kicking in the teeth of Dems by those who have used the Dem party to their benefit.

[jalan48]

135. As a life long Democrat I don't think Bernie is kicking the Party in the teeth.

Since when did we become so strident as to view criticism as "kicking us in the teeth"? It's a discussion board-who cares if a poster focuses on one issue. Sounds like a control issue to me.

[Me.]

155. Since He & His Offshoot Group OR

are relentless in their criticism of the DEms to the point where OR Leaders say they would consider voting for a Con Over the Dems. I am offended that our party was used for the 'money and media' while constantly, to this time, being criticized and.... as a loyal Dem I don't consider it wrong to defend my party from interlopers.

[jalan48]

173. Over 13 million voted for him in the primaries. Not all Bernie supporters are exactly alike.

His ideas obviously resonated with the public and I think, as a Democrat, we would do well to try and find common ground. I'm hoping our Party can continue to discuss issues and let go of the individual cult of personality politics which seems to be guiding us today (that includes Bernie as well).

[Me.]

177. Discussions

which are inclusive and sans criticism of our party would be good so long as it's focused on getting rid of the cult of Comrade Trump.

[jalan48]

179. I agree but it's politics so it will always be contentious. I'm working locally on the upcoming

midterms. I'm with you on getting rid of Comrade Trump.

[Me.]

185. A Point Of Agreement!

[jalan48]

207. Cool!

[86derps]

64. Please think through this statement logically

Let's not think of this as a Hillary versus Bernie issue.

The real issue is, as a democrat, do you want big money donations from multinational companies and wealthy elites going to democratic candidates or not.

If you don't think donors don't influence the candidate then you are for Hillary. If you think money corrupts the candidate then you're for Bernie.

I helped campaign for Bernie and almost cried when Hillary lost to Trump. Because I was for Bernie doesn't make a me a socialist.

[ismnotwasm]

69. Derp.

[Dennis Donovan]

70. Welcome to DU!

Well put!

[Maven]

79. DERP. nt

[MrsCoffee]

82. Hillary wanted Citizen's United overturned.

Do you know how that case came about? Do you know how ridiculous it is to see people still spewing lies about Hillary?

[Eliot Rosewater]

126. It is what rump and the kgb do, they lie straight out about everything, eventually enough

buy into it.

It is now allowed here and for that reason I think I am not.

[Eliot Rosewater]

116. WHAT the FUCK!

No, I dont think HILLARY is a corrupt candidate taking money from corrupt entities like you just SAID

How can I still see this

[GaryCnf]

124. As I am sure is fairly obvious

I think the anti-Bernie faction in our party is both wrong and destructive

BUT

I have to say, I am WITH YOU 100% when I see the word "corrupt" used like that.

Good reply

[NurseJackie]

129. I know! We've heard this shit before... and here it is again.

Ugh!

[betsuni]

125. Logically? This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[emulatorloo]

161. You understand Our Revolution is a 501c, and is not required to reveal its donors, right?

Until Citizens United is overturned these PACs are a necessary evil. There are “good” pacs that help Dems.

HRC was solidly against Citizen United. Are you aware that the Citizens United case was about a dark money group who made an egregious smear documentary lying about Hillary Clinton?

[Thew]

186. Painted yourself into a moral corner

Your post represents what I am begging people not do in the primaries. You've put yourself in a position where the general election candidate that is much closer to your own goals and ideals is "corrupt". Opposing your ideal candidate is not evil; people are allowed to disagree while being on the same side.

There will be candidates that you oppose in the primary contest that will be far superior in the general - best get used to that now.

[PaulX2]

83. You Need 50 Million To Run For The Senate This Is The Problem Not Bernie

Admit it.

You need corporate cash to get elected, and they get what they want regardless of what party you belong to.

Our system is corrupt to the core.

Sure you can vote, but the money affects ALL ACTIONS.

Secret billionaire cash running attack ads.

They spent 14 million against Lamb and still lost. Where the hell did the 14 million come from?

Billionaires.

The money can be defeated, but it should be eliminated.

[FromMissouri]

184. "The money can be defeated," I hope

This is exactly the problem. When corporations are people and money is speech and campaign contributions are unlimited, "one person one vote" democracy is dead. We have transitioned toward a plutocracy. We may be able to stop the slide, but as CA has shown, the ratfucking that gets Republicans elected is incredibly sophisticated and must be answered by massive turnout. We don't have to give up the FDR Democratic party. We just need Democratic candidates who act like Democrats.

[SidDithers]

86. ...

Sid

[mudstump]

87. The hatred of Bernie supporters is strong here on DU...

Think about how it might feel to be attacked for supporting one of the most progressive politicians we have on the left....from the left itself!...blows my mind to feel so unwelcome in a party I've supported and voted for my entire life.

[NurseJackie]

121. Aw.

87. The hatred of Bernie supporters is strong here on DU...

Aw.

blows my mind to feel so unwelcome in a party

So... you feel "unwelcome" because someone disagrees with you? You feel "unwelcome" because someone disagrees with a politician you're a fan of? You feel "unwelcome" because someone criticizes your favorite politician?

GMAFB!

[KPN]

166. Why?

[WestwardWind]

90. What have I waked into & joined?

I just joined DU and as someone who is brand new and a very big Bernie fan & supporter, I'm thinking I may not be welcomed here. I joined because I was seeking like minded people as far as politics go but it appears I was mistaken.....

I see lots of things being said which simply aren't true. Where is all this hate & vitriol coming from? I don't understand.

[cannabis_flower]

157. Welcome

You'll be fine. Just don't pay any attention to those who can't hear anything nice about Bernie or get butt hurt anytime there's any criticism of their favorite politician, no matter if it's valid or not.

[WestwardWind]

232. Thanks

Words I shall heed and pay attention too

[emulatorloo]

164. Welcome and stick around. Not every thread is like this.

[WestwardWind]

233. Thanks, that's a relief

[FromMissouri]

189. weird thread, right?

I too have just joined, but have been reading DU for maybe ten years or so. At first, I thought it was genuinely "underground" but it's evolved toward the mainstream, if it ever was an alternative to the Democratic establishment. What amazes me is that people are still fighting the last presidential primary. Perhaps some fear that Bernie will run again. We know that Republicans feared Hillary for decades and fought against her the whole time, and still she won the vote. What we have to have now are victories so large that flipping a few precinct totals will no longer steal the election. Paper ballots, complete audits, and get rid of FaceBook to start.

[WestwardWind]

235. Ya quite odd

Why toil in something that happened over 2 years ago? What's done is done. I've been thinking about facebook. I'm truly unsure what to do about that and haven't made up my mind. The problem is my whole family from all around the country is on it. There's a new social network too, Vero, which I have been trying out. It's available only on mobile but is very streamlined and straight foward; ahhh good old simplicity!

[Me.]

249. It Isn't About Fighting The Primary

The problem is the criticism still being leveled at the DEm party by both the Senator and even more vehemently, his offshoot group, Our Revolution.

[CanSocDem]

194. I've been here for years...

...and at least weekly, I ask myself the same question. But it is still a good place for links...


.

[NurseJackie]

206. Uh-huh. Whatever.

[WestwardWind]

229. Well that's a nice welcome.

Makes me feel right at home. :|

[NurseJackie]

239. You seem remarkably comfortable and "at home" already without any assistance from me...

... you're catching on so quickly and everything must seem so familiar to you.

[sheshe2]

252. Hey Jackie.

[NurseJackie]

255. Hey there!

[WestwardWind]

279. I've been on forums for years

Most notably the DSLReports political forum but that was very different than here. I wouldn't call this home though, that belongs to Twitter.

[NurseJackie]

327. Uh-huh. Yes. Of course.

WestwardWind
279. I've been on forums for years

Oh, yes. I'm sure. So much experience! That explains the consternation about not receiving a "nice welcome"... it also explains the confusion in wondering what's been "walked into and joined"... and it explains the dismay that members "toil over" something in the past.

[WestwardWind]

334. What is your deal?

I don't know you at all and you don't know me but in every single interaction with you, you come off as being, I don't know, having some issue with me & I have no clue why. I'd like to know so if you would, please explain. You act as though I busted into your little private wedding party or something.

[NurseJackie]

336. "You act as though I busted into your little private wedding party..." I've done no such thing.

That's a much nicer philosophy, wouldn't you agree?

Let's not spoil this eventful weekend.

Let's celebrate and honor those Parkland students who have sacrificed so much and contributed so much.

[Jim Lane]

331. You might want to consider using the "Ignore" function

As you've doubtless already observed, there are some DU members who tend to be more toxic than others. You can put as many people as you like on "Ignore" and then you just won't see their posts. (IIRC you will see responses to their posts.) Click on "My Account" up top and then select the "Ignore List" tab.

Some people who make extensive use of this feature have reported that it greatly enhances their enjoyment of DU.

[WestwardWind]

335. Thank you very much for that

I will take you up on that. Some here aren't what I would call exactly friendly and act as though you walked in on them while they were in the bathroom or something. Others are quite the opposite. Why the disdain though for new people though? I saw another person getting hazed as well who was new

[Jim Lane]

340. You ask about the disdain for new people

My answer is in my heart but I will send it to you in a PM, not post it here.

For this reticence I have my reasons.

[Fla Dem]

343. There is not disdain for new members, but there is a suspicion of new members who

Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2018, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)

join and almost immediately begin strongly advocating for all things Bernie.

There are many DU members who supported and still do support Bernie. However during the last election cycle, DU was flooded with new sign-ups who tried to divide, disrupt and agitate. Many under the Bernie Banner. It was difficult to tell who was legitimate and who came for the sole purpose to divide. This caused much angst during the primary and even into the general election when Bernie would not concede and his delegates tried to disrupt the Democratic Convention.

DU was also hacked and taken off line. So we are a big target for those who wish 1) we weren't here espousing Democratic values and candidates, 2) exposing the hypocrisy of the conservative /"Christian"/ right wing Republican party.

For a number of DUer's, Bernie walks a fine line between supporting Democrats and the Democratic Party agenda and self promotion.

So yes, newbies who jump into discussions with strong opinions, advocating for the Bernie agenda, while seeminly making critical comments about Democrats and/or their agenda are perhaps viewed cautiously.

WestwardWind (34 posts)

178. Bad bills? Huh?

Bad bills? You understand that some Democrats are voting for these bills, correct? That is what should be questioned. These are members of our party and we need to hold them accountable. No Democrats should be siding with payday lenders and Republicans to screw over low income home owners. Yet 27 of them did just that.

Bernie isn't being disgusting, stuff like which I cited is disgusting.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10405646

WestwardWind (34 posts)

180. We're seeing this as different things

I'm questioning the people voting for such bad bills whereas you're questioning the bills themselves. I think it's safe to say that many of these same people who are voting for Trump's agenda would probably vote no on good bills. Look at Bernie's bipartisan bill to end the proxy war as example and those who voted against it. See what I'm saying?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10405718

i see in another of your posts that you volunteer at a Food Bank. I do as well. Thank you.
I wish you the best and hope you do find a "home" here on DU.

[Demsrule86]

222. Really? I joined this site because it supports Democrats.

This is Democratic Underground .

[WestwardWind]

231. I joined it for the same reason

And yeah I know what the name of the site it, thanks. Why the snark? Jeez. Are so many on here cynical?

[Demsrule86]

265. I wasn't being snarky actually...

This is a Democratic site. I do believe Sen Sanders is the only independent that is treated as a Democrat.

[WestwardWind]

278. Angus King?

[marlakay]

314. Hi! Welcome

There are a lot of Bernie fans here who also voted for Hilary after, I am one of them. Worked on his campaign for many months.

I usually ignore posts made negative about Bernie because for some reason there are those here who seem to enjoy being shit starters.

I only wrote to ask you not to give up the site because there is so much more to it than the few who choose to rile people up.

I have been here since early 2004 through a link on Michael Moore’s website, he use to encourage people to our site.

Its usually like this during primaries but this one hit hard because some Bernie folks didn’t vote for Hilary and pissed off a bunch of people maybe causing her to loose.

I was thinking about it today, on FB I saw as a Bernie supporter a ton of stuff daily reminding me what the DNC did to Bernie. I think they were trying to get people like me to stay home.

Also you might want to join the Bernie group, pretty quiet now but busy before.

[WestwardWind]

325. Thank you

From my experiences, these feelings between Hillary & Bernie supporters seem to be amplified here greatly. In the real world this isn't a problem and to back up my experiences, I did some research on polling and it conforms what I thought. Bernie enjoys very high favorability among Democrats. So it seems the feelings expressed here are a sort of micro-chasm.

I haven't given up YET but my immediate feeling is that I'm not especially welcomed here and am being met with lots of skepticism. Hm.

It is funny that you cite the figure that lots of Berners didn't vote for Hillary when in fact 90% did which is a far greater number of PUMAS who refused to vote fore Obama and instead voted for McCain, 21%. I don't buy into the theroy that these people caused Hillary to lose, for they were never going to vote with her to begin with. You always get some people who think like that, sadly. The question is how can you change their minds or if you even can.

Bernie group? I'll have to try & find it, thank you!

[Maven]

91. YEAH, MAN, DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY

JUST SOCIETY

TOTALLY

[betsuni]

113. You people have hang-ups, man. HANG-UPS.

JUST SOCIETY.

[Maven]

115. RRRRROCKKKK.

[MoonRiver]

102. A "Democratic Society" does, or SHOULD, mean people can express their opinions.

[elleng]

107. YES

[democratisphere]

131. Bernie is not a Democrat and therefore irrelevant to Democratic politics.

No problem.

[Nitram]

143. Does DU have a Bernie problem, or does Bernie have a Democrat problem?

CanSocDem, I know you mean well, but I fear you've oversimplified a problem that goes much deeper than differing definitions of social justice. Ignoring or air-brushing very real different point of view on how to win elections and bring about real social change will not solve the problem.

[mythology]

149. You do realize the exact opposite is also true?

Some supporters on both sides can't get over their petty hangups. Sanders (or anybody else) doesn't has a monopoly on social justice.

[Mountain Mule]

151. K&R! nt

[still_one]

165. I don't have a Bernie problem as the OP alludes to, because Bernie supported the Democratic nominee

in the General Election.

What I do have is a problem with is those self-identified progressives who refused to support the Democratic nominee in the general election, and instead choose to follow the likes of the Jill Steins, and other frauds, and took an active role after the Democratic convention to undermine and campaign, not only against the Democratic nominee, but the Democratic party in probably the most important election of our lifetime. As bad as that was, the worst part is most of them have no remorse or regret, and would do it again.

Some have reflected that they don't recall things being this bad at DU, and I suspect the reason for that is the daily barrage of horrendous things that the WH, and the republicans in Congress are doing to dismantle all the progress that had been made on Civil Rights, Workers Rights, Women's rights, the environment, etc., that is now systematically being destroyed. It may take years or decades to recover from this, and a good number of folks may not survive the damage that this WH, and a complicit republican Congress is doing.

That elicits anger, and it should be no surprise that expression of anger is going to be directed at those they preceive to have been complicit in what happened in 2016.

Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states in 2016 lost to the establishment, incumbent, republican

[GaryCnf]

175. We may disagree on much

But the Democratic nominee is the ONLY nominee as far as I am concerned. IF you run third party, you do not exist.

[leftofcool]

181. DU doesn't have a Bernie problem. Some of us just don't like him and that is that.

[NurseJackie]

195. Simple!

[Jamaal510]

316. +1

[betsuni]

320. More fun to make it a conspiracy by outside forces I guess.

And imagine that people who post nice photo of the Obamas, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi or John Lewis and say nice things about them are secretly paid disruptors from countries where they eat stuffed paprikas and goulashes -- how very exciting and glamorous!

[David__77]

191. Right-wingers, white supremacists and anti-Semites see Sanders as a political enemy.

Just as they see Clinton as an enemy.

The enemy is on the right.

That is very different from there being principled political disagreements with Sanders among Democrats and progresssives. I see nothing wrong with principled political disagreement.

[stevenleser]

341. That's actually not true. They see him as a useful foil for the Democratic Party

Trump has been pretty transparent in doing exactly that during the campaign and afterwards.

They are quite happy he is around because they know as long as he is around, this controversy will exist that tends to divide the party.

[MyNameGoesHere]

210. The 2020 positioning has officially begun.

I will continue to do what I have done for 38 years and vote for the one that has an official (D) next to their name. I won't call a banana an apple, no sir I won't.

[guillaumeb]

227. Recommended.

In my view, this is a part of the ongoing debate between the various factions in the Democratic Party.

[Stuart G]

246. I got my years mixed up....wait...Isn't it a Ralph Nader problem??

Didn't Ralph give the election to "the stupid one?" Interference in our elections is not new. That kind of interference is ugly and vicious. In 7 months there will be an election. The hate and anger among us must somehow be lessoned to a point so that we can work together to take back the House and Senate..

Yes, we can stoke the fires of hate and anger, that's ok if some people want that. it is ok for them.

But I can recall the bitterness and anger against others who ran for the office of the presidency, and then we came together and won..I worked for George McGovern in 72..Our party lost ..and lost big...

But four years later we won. Jimmy Carter was elected. Can we come together again? We have to because the U.S.A. may depend on it..And can we come together in November ? What do you think?

[aidbo]

253. When Bernie wins the 2020 nomination, some folks here are going to lose their shit. NT

[NurseJackie]

259. Ha!! :-D

[SaschaHM]

318. Say it again for the people in the back.

Whenever I see a comment like that in a thread like this, I'm just dumbfound as to "how" they think that is going to occur with certainty. More choices means "anti-Clinton Bernie votes" being spread out. More diverse candidates (including moderate/center-left white candidates) means the demographic problems of the primary get expanded since the WWC can rally around a Biden, Gillibrand, or a Warren. And that doesn't even get to the poll erosion that occurs when Clinton general-only voters, enthused by Trump and the loss, become primary voters that aren't going to flock to him.

That Biden has consistently polled over him (having lost the presidential primary twice) should be a sign that Sanders had he been younger would be well on his way of becoming a perennial Ron Paul-esque candidate that ultimately loses while maintaining a core group of supporters that doesn't expand. Heck, even the 18-25 year olds of 2020 will find a new candidate to rally around.

And that doesn't even get around to the problem of the 2016 Clinton primary voters that generally don't seem to be jumping on the "Our Revolution" bandwagon in the post-Trump era. Hillary had that issue in 2008, but her relationship w/ Obama and her service to his administration helped alleviate that in 2016. I don't see Hillary and Bernie holding hands and encouraging her supporters to support Bernie in 2020, especially when the kneejerk reaction of folks from a certain sphere is for her to go away forever.

[stevenleser]

268. He might win a 2020 nomination for school board, or Governor. That would be fine with me. nt

[EricMaundry]

284. I just ignore all this crap

Total waste of time.

[applegrove]

304. GOP and Russian trolls keeping the wounds of 2016 open in order to use

It in elections to come.

[liberal N proud]

313. Can't respond to this with fear of being hit with an alert

That in a nutshell describes our BS problem.

Thin skin got us to this point and the jury system as it was implemented at the time became a weapon of revenge. The system was modified to address the problem but many still can't be adults.

[LWolf]

329. It's not a Bernie problem.

It's a corrupt party establishment problem. Individuals are a distraction from the real problem. And too many prefer the distraction to the reality.

[DURHAM D]

337. Killer Mike and friends -

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[NurseJackie]

338. Lord!

[George II]

344. Damn, that says a lot.