Could someone explain the census to me?

[LAS14]

If the constitutional purpose of a census is to determine representation in the House of Representatives, why don't they just count voters? Why do they count children and felons? Or does the constitution count representation based on 'residents' not voters?

Obviously this has implications for the citizenship question, but I'm not a troll. It's just a question that came to me after watching a lot of news coverage.

tia
las

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Representation is based on people living in an area, not on registered voters.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Representatives represent everyone, not just voters.

Also, the Census serves as a centralized, uniform source for data for government departments at all levels. It's a vital program.

[radical noodle]

3. Among other things

the census is a treasure trove of information about demographics. It helps to have this info to decide things like health services, schools, etc.

For me, it's a great place to get info about ancestors.

[MineralMan]

4. Less than 50% of eligible voters actually vote.

They are still represented by legislators in their districts. People who are not citizens cannot vote. They, too, are still represented.

The words "citizens" and "voters" are not used in the census language. Instead, "persons" is used. The intent was to evenly distribute representation by population in general.

That's why.

[OldHippieChick]

5. The census is used for many things, including

school funding, hence they query about number of children.

[LAS14]

6. Thanks to you both. nt

[LonePirate]

7. The Constitution specifies the counting of persons, not voters or citizens.

[jberryhill]

8. Because that's not what the Constitution says

Article I, Section 2, Clause 3:

3: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

The italicized portion was later modified by:

Amendment 14:

2: Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.

That modification required, among other things, a war in which some 650-750k people were killed.

The count is of "persons in each State".

It was one of the original power grabs of the red states - they wanted to keep slaves as property, but also wanted them to be counted as "persons" for the purpose of inflating their representation in Congress. They would not have had as many representatives as needed in order to maintain slavery as an institution, since they were otherwise less populous, and would have been outnumbered by the free states. Hence the "3/5 Compromise", which managed to postpone the Civil War by several decades.

[struggle4progress]

16. +

[Farmer-Rick]

9. The constitution does not describe who or what is a US citizen.

Probably because our founding fathers were mostly European citizens. And then we had the slave problem. I mean if a slave is born in the US, is he a citizen entitled to all the rights and protections of a citizen?

Back in England, citizenship was based on where you were born and who your parents are. If parents are citizens that automatically makes their children citizens. But with slavery, that ain't the case. Though they counted slave as 3/5 of a person for the census.

Many states allowed immigrants to vote, no matter their citzenship. If they didn't there would be practically no one voting.

So, citizenship was frequently considered just the people living there.

I forgot about the American Indians. I assumed they were counted since they were born in this country unlike our founding fathers. But turns out they only counted if they paid taxes. I never knew that until I read the post above.

[jberryhill]

13. It did not originally

But it did after the 14th Amendment:

1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

The Census was part of the original, and the apportionment of representatives was modified by the second clause of the 14th Amendment:

2: Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.

It is thus obvious, since the 14th Amendment was adopted as a whole, who are citizens, and that the Census is based on "persons in each State", and not merely citizens.

[xmas74]

10. The census is used for more than just the government.

An example is in a city that is growing and trying to attract business. A number of franchise businesses, factories, etc will look at the population number determined by the census to decide if that city can support their business.

My town is home to a university and where almost half of the families from a local military base reside. For the 2010 Census they were to inform census workers where they reside six months and one day of the year, not their hometown. It didn't happen and the only counted population was the local.

Why does that make a difference? The local university has 17,000 students enrolled. There is an automatic two year on campus housing requirement. The local base has 8,000 assigned to it. This does not include dependents. The city population in the 2010 Census showed only as 18,000. The estimate is 40,000. The town has lost out on business opportunities and state finding for districts of that size.

Just an example of how important an accurate census can be to a small town.

[wishstar]

11. Voters are already counted on voter registration rolls, census counts entire population

because unlike the Senate, where each state regardless of population gets just 2 Senators, for Congress the number of Congressional districts in each state is determined based on total population. So areas that have higher populations get more representatives in Congress. By reducing the number of immigrants and noncitizens who are counted in census (because of noncompliance due to fear) the Republicans hope this change can lead to fewer Democratic-leaning Congressional districts than what might occurred if entire population is accurately counted.

This issue gives the Repub base another anti-immigrant campaign topic to rally around for this fall.

[Codeine]

12. Because the government represents everyone

not just voters.

[PunksMom]

14. Right now,

they are hardly representing us😒

[Codeine]

15. True. My comment posits an ideal world situation. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. The population was used to apportion representatives and electors.

And it was not a straight head count. Every five slaves counted as three, for purpose of apportion of representatives and electors, even though they did not have the right to vote. That helped the southern states get more representation.

The fourteenth amendment changed that.

[kentuck]

18. It's about counting the people in our country.

even the "illegals". It is not meant to help one political Party over another. The purpose is to get an accurate count of our nation's population.

[brooklynite]

19. Let's take a look at the 'ol Constitution...

Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3:

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.2 The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct"

The question under debate is whether "persons" means "citizens" or "everybody".

[jberryhill]

21. There is no question on that subject

The 14th Amendment, Section 1, expressly defines "citizens".

In Section 2, it refers to apportionment on the basis of "persons".

Because the 14th Amendment uses "citizens" in the first Section and "persons" in the second Section, the ordinary rule is that a difference of wording in the same document indicates a difference in meaning.

[LAS14]

20. Ahh... Memory. I wonder what else I've lost. I once KNEW that slaves...

.... were counted in the census as 1/3 of a person. So I once KNEW that the constitutional representation was not restricted to a count of voters..... Sigh.... But thanks all for the reminders.