Are we setting ourselves up for major disappointment if Robert Mueller doesn't deliver?

[chuckstevens]

I am just concerned that many think he will be the Savior of America. It may not play out that way, especially with a Republican party that seems unconcerned about scandals and the rule if law.

Am I wrong?

[dhill926]

1. I'm really not expecting that much....

some underlings going to jail perhaps, but nothing earth shattering or administration ending. Gonna have to vote the fuckers out...

[sarah FAILIN]

13. Me too

We are stuck.

[beaglelover]

24. Totally agree with you. The end of Mueller's investigation won't be the end of the Trump

administration. We need to vote him out in 2020.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Perhaps it would be better to see his finding before evaluating its impact.

[chuckstevens]

3. Thanks for the snotty reply!

I am posing a hypothetical.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. It wasn't intended to be so.

What if he finds a smoking gun, evidence that is so incontrovertible that only a rabid Trump supporter can ignore ?


We don't know.

[chuckstevens]

6. OK! Thanks!

[MyOwnPeace]

18. Chill, Chuck!

After a quick, first read I did not see it as "snooty" - but appreciated your quick response.
When you post something you are gonna' get responses - some are bright, some are "not-so-bright", and some may make no sense whatsoever.
Here at DU we have the opportunity of getting a new, sometimes good comment/thought out there and will usually get some responses/feedback from it. It is RARELY personal - just a reflection of how the "crowd" is feeling/thinking at that moment.
I, for one, have the greatest hopes invested in MAGA (Mueller Ain't Going Away!) and that is based on a somewhat naive trust in the American electorate (that "trust" got the SHIT kicked out of it in 2016!). We need to be active, keep up the fight, get out the vote, and listen to everyone, friends and foes.

[mercuryblues]

4. He will deliver

republikkklans won't do squat.

GOTV

[lunasun]

7. Not expecting anything from Mueller . So I will be pleasantly surprised if anything comes from it.

Much more interested and putting hope on Nov ' 18
and 2020

[workinclasszero]

8. If..or should I say when?...the democrats take back control of the House this fall

Shitler is going to be impeached irregardless of what happens with Mueller.

If we get the Senate as well the pig will be convicted and removed from office!

Of course I hold out hope that Mueller can put the orange shitgibbon behind bars at some point along with his crime family and republican accomplices.

[MichMary]

11. Yes, he will be impeached

but it is unlikely he will be convicted by the Senate. Conviction requires a 2/3 vote, and there is no way there will be 67 votes to convict.

[workinclasszero]

14. For sure if the republicons control it Bone Spurs will escape conviction and removal

The slimeball will not escape impeachment though.

And in 2020 we dems will raise a powerful righteous movement to kick his traitor ass out of OUR White House!

[elocs]

36. "Conviction requires a 2/3 vote, and there is no way there will be 67 votes to convict."

Well now you're just messing with people's fantasies.
Fantasies are nice, but it's good to keep in touch with reality.
Did impeachment remove Bill Clinton?

[MichMary]

38. No,

which is why I said that he WILL be impeached, but not removed.

I only hope that impeachment won't do for Trump's popularity what it did for Clinton's.

[bearsfootball516]

27. Takes 67 to convict in the Senate though.

[Hekate]

9. Well, DU did invent Fitzmass, so it's always wise to avoid hyperinflated expectations.

On the whole, however, DUers seem to be keeping it real. We have a few who subscribe to the Magic Wand theory of politics, but more who are grounded in facts.

Facts such as: this GOP-majority House is not going to impeach this president, so we need to turn it around in the upcoming midterms. Facts such as: this GOP-majority Senate is not going to confirm an impeachment, so GOTV for Democratic candidates. Facts such as: invoking Article 25 to remove the president for unfitness relies both on an honorable Cabinet, since it originates with the Cabinet, and a House willing to confirm their findings, which ain't gonna happen.

Mueller can only do so much without the other branches of government doing their part, and the elected parts of government rely on us to change their composition.

He's doing everything he can, but he doesn't have a magic wand.

[JoeOtterbein]

28. Agree 100%

[badhair77]

34. Fitzmas was very disappointing so Im not getting myself hyped up over Mueller.

But I do have a better feeling this time around. Mueller has a lot more experience than Fitzgerald, also.

[Cicada]

10. I will not be surprised if Trump himself is cleanish

Often the top guy is insulated from dirty deeds. And from a political angle I don’t want Trump charged. I think charges against Trump will be like a stick in a hornets nest, motivating his supporters to vote. I prefer them dumb and sleepy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. "Often the top guy is insulated from dirty deeds."

That's what John Gotti thought before Mueller nailed him.

[Cicada]

16. One trump cultist juror leads to acquital

Plus Mueller may think he should not indict a sitting President, that he should just report and let congress impeach or not.

Trump has not been running a mob for decades so Gotti isn’t that apt an analogy.

I am pretty sure Trump will not be convicted of a crime. I just want him voted out of office, I think that is the most effective way to undo what he is doing. And that is what matters, fixing the harm to the nation. We need to resurrect medical care for all, get back to protecting the climate, restore our standing in the world, raise taxes on the affluent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I really have no idea how this plays out.

Trump has not been running a mob for decades so Gotti isn’t that apt an analogy.

Correct, but Gotti tried to insulate himself. I'm certain Mueller knows Trump insulates himself and he he will peel away the layers of plausible deniability.

[LeftInTX]

42. But Gotti had a huge record

And the FBI wired an apartment where Gotti was holding private conversations. Gotti went up to the apartment of an old lady because he thought his club was wired. The FBI bugged the place while the lady was on vacation.

Gotti was accused of murder and already served time for murder which gave them probable cause to bug the lady's apartment.

I just don't think Mueller has the WH bugged.

[Cary]

15. No one knows.

Anyone who says they know is full of shit.

Put your eggs in the VOTE DEMOCRATIC basket. That's a winner.

[MyOwnPeace]

19. You got that, Cary!

GET OUT THE VOTE - DEMOCRATIC!

THAT is the most important, trustworthy means of getting our country back (oh, how I hate sounding like "them" when I say I want my country back!).

Plenty of good points in this post and how we cannot rely just on Mueller's findings. It's NOT just IQ45 - it is the entire Republican leadershit (oh, did I spell that wrong?)!!!!!

Our next election is SO important - let's get it done!

[unblock]

20. I think his report will play a pivotal role in the midterms

Even if it turns out to be son of fitzmas, the stench of Russian ties, election law violations, and criminality will be among many factors that drive a blue tsunami in November.

[NCTraveler]

21. Im past it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to see how it all unfolds. We have Maddow and others doing great work educating and building a narrative. More will drop when it drops.

There is so much going on right now. We have had a couple of Democrats making early moves signifying a run for the Presidency. We are winning elections and have a huge opportunity in the midterms. Trump is damaging Republicans from coast to coast.

I would like to hedge my bets, be a bit greedy, and ride with the current narrative. One way or another the Mueller report is going to really change things up.

[Awsi Dooger]

22. Consensus is more reality based than 4-6 months ago

Late last year when Trump's approval was low 30s and every week was more outrageous than the previous, there were nonsensical projections among Democrats everywhere. We had threads here asserting his approval number could only go lower, into the 20s. I had Christmas breakfast with an old friend from the neighborhood. He confidently said to me, "You're the odds guy. What are the odds Trump is removed during 2018?" When I told him the odds were next to nothing, and that Trump is far more likely to serve two full terms than not finish one term, let alone be removed by a Republican congress during 2018, he initially thought I was joking. That's how far away from normalcy the Happy Adjuster types were determined to take it. It's the Ralph Kramden to the moon approach.

There is still some of that but l detect realism has started to settle. It doesn't matter that we don't know what Mueller has. No kidding we don't know. Details seldom mean much of anything. If you are always relying on details and using today's details to predict tomorrow then you are prone to gross error and deserve every bit of it.

Presidents have enormous power and wiggle room. That aspect is likely to prevail. I don't care about details whether they favor my side or oppose it.

Also, the get out the vote emphasis is overblown. We need to register and register and register again. New registrations among young people should overpower every other focus or concern. Then take your chances whether or not they actually vote this time. Swell the ranks and it will eventually happen, in powerful fashion.

Tom Steyer seems to be the only one who grasps the big picture. He was furious at Trump and initially attempted the stupid Happy Adjuster mode with $100 million devoted to the impeachment push and commercials. Fortunately he wised up and now is quietly allocating $25 million to campus registration drives including community colleges. The only horror is that the numbers should have been reversed...with the $100 million aimed at the registration drives.

If Tom Steyer just sat around and waited for Robert Mueller we'd be partially forfeiting where we rightfully should be in 2018 and particularly later on. You know damn well the Republicans have been laughing all along at our fixation on 2016, while they plot all the outrageous methods to shift future cycles in their favor.

[Anon-C]

26. You are correct! nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

23. Remember Mueller was the one who got John Gotti

Gotti was known as the "Teflon Don" up to that point.

[Adrahil]

25. Let's keep this in perspective....

First off, I would be VERY disappointed if he does a "nothing to see here." In fact, I would be despondent. But I don't think that will happen.

He has shown every step of the way that he dead-fuckin' serious. He has been securing cooperating witnesses. He isn't doing that for nothing. There is something there, and he has it.

I mean, beyond the totally obvious obstruction stuff.

[kimbutgar]

29. I remember Fitzgerald investigation during bush years and the only one prosecuted was scooter Libby

I feel a little anxiety mueller’s investigation might come to naught.

[elocs]

30. If things don't work out with the investigation, Mueller will get trashed big time.

If things don't work out with Mueller's investigation like so many on the Left are convinced it will go I'm sure they will turn on him and throw him under the bus. He's the hero now but he will be the goat then.
Hey, does anybody remember all of the confident predictions about how Bush and Cheney were going to be frog-marched to The Hague? How did that ever work out?

[SomethingNew]

31. To add to your hypothetical,

how quickly do you think accusations that Putin got to Mueller will start to fly around here if he ends the investigation without charging Trump?

[tavernier]

32. I think Rump will insist on talking to Mueller personally.

He is certain that he can flim flam anyone, and is itching to prove it to all those who are begging him not to meet with M.

And then the game will be over.

[Kablooie]

33. I believe he will present plenty to satisfy Democrats that Trump must go.

But Republicans will still refuse to do anything about him for fear of losing the support of his base.

The RW media will scream that he's been framed and the investigation is corrupt.

If Democrats take the house there will be tremendous clamoring for impeachment BUT...

It takes 67 Senators to find Trump guilty of the charges before he can be removed.
If Democrats win every single Senate seat that's up for election they will only have 59 seats.
Not enough to get rid of Trump and it's very unlikely that anything will convince enough Republicans to convict him.
We are headed for a Clinton type of impeachment. He will be impeached but not found guilty.

So there is virtually no chance that he will be removed from office no matter what the charges are.
Mueller could reveal that Trump is a full Russian spy from the KGB and he instigated all the recent mass shootings and still the right would simply scream that the investigation is corrupt and do nothing about it.

Realistically nothing can be done about Trump until the 2020 presidential election.
I just hope the government will still remain by then. Seems kind of iffy.

[Thomas Hurt]

35. Unfortunately, at this point there is nothing that leads me to believe that we can prove Trump...

is an out and out traitor. Personally, I believe that Trump is capable of doing so, it is just part of his pathology that he would sell out his country for his personal gain of money, power and celebrity.

However, what seem to have so far is that Trump is an incompetent and insecure fool. He and his lap dogs were played.

[C_U_L8R]

37. Trump wouldnt be squirming this much

If there wasn’t something majorly criminal going on

[Snackshack]

39. Yes-

Much like was done with "Fitzmas"...

Mr. Mueller is not going to provide a solution to the trump issue. That is going to take an act of congress... and an act of congress is going to take Democrats winning back a majority in the legislative branch in November.

[brettdale]

40. I will be gutted

If he finishes his investigation and finds there was nothing that Trumpy or the major players did
that was illegal, I will be gutted.

If he only finds infringements by minor players in the WH, and just has some recommendations for
the future, this will be a million times worse than Fitzmas.

[kentuck]

41. If we can make it to next January and maybe win the election in November?

There may be a Democratic House to oversee the Executive Branch?

Should we expect more?

[KentuckyWoman]

43. He won't deliver. He can't

There's not a single change in all of the universe any of those closest to Trump will see so much as a fine let alone pushed out of office or the inside of a jail cell.

[peggysue2]

44. I've never seen Mueller as a Savior, per se

The only 'saviors' of our democratic Republic are American voters. If we do our due diligence, respect and fulfill our civic responsibility, we will save the Republic with our vote, our voice, our unified will.

Mueller has the job of shoring up the Rule of Law, the ideal that no one is above or beyond the Law and/or Constitution.

I have confidence that Mueller and his team will fulfill their duty as we, ordinary citizens, will fulfill ours. We're working the same field but on different ends.

That being said, neither Mueller nor anyone else can save us. We must save ourselves and we can start that process in November and into the foreseeable future. When Democrats come out and vote, we win. This time it's not only for ourselves; it's for the country at large. It is that serious, that consequential.

We truly are the ones we've been waiting for. Might have sounded highfalutin back in the day.

Not now.