General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWaffle House suspect Travis Reinking deemed himself a 'sovereign citizen,' part of anti-government
Travis Reinking, 29, used that term which the FBI has also used to describe a group of anti-government extremists during a clash last year with the Secret Service, according to a police report obtained by USA TODAY.
Reinking told agents he needed to see President Trump and defined himself as sovereign citizen who had a right to inspect the grounds, according to an arrest report by the Metropolitan Police Department in D.C. He was arrested on an unlawful entry charge after refusing to leave the area.
In June 2017, Reinking threatened someone with an AR-15 then drove to a public pool and exposed himself to others, said the USA TODAY Network's Tennessean, citing police records. He has also threatened to kill himself and said he thought singer Taylor Swift was stalking him, according to the Associated Press.
This guy is completely bonkers!
Why does that term "sovereign citizen" keep popping up with these people?
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Initech
(100,102 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Sovereign Citizens Movement: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement
Initech
(100,102 posts)Maybe it's time to revisit that subject!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029078775
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)But his father should be locked up for returning weapons to him after the WH incident.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Goodbye insanity defense.
quartz007
(1,216 posts)for handing this nut all his guns.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...that the person subscribes to a loose collection of crackpot legal theories that have long been a hobby of people who find the actual law to be inconvenient to their preferred lifestyle.
oasis
(49,408 posts)DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)Link to tweet
/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1002%26pid%3D10527117
IronLionZion
(45,529 posts)and they still haven't caught the guy despite knowing who he is. But instead of these 4 victims of color and the brave hero of color who stopped him, we'll soon hear all about how was such a good kid, good student, no one saw it coming despite his history of armed political violence, he's not political, etc.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)I am so SICK of losing our young people to fucking RWNJ's with guns to domestic terrorists whose own fathers are enablers.
James Shaw, Jr., yes, sir you ARE a hero.
demigoddess
(6,644 posts)why is it guns are considered more valuable than our citizens? Why is it wild crazy beliefs are more sacred than our citizens. The dad who gave him the guns should be treated like an accomplice which he probably was in the intent to harm as well.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I missed that in class.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)And they truly believe they can just use this as an excuse for every bad deed from public exposure to murder.
Virtual Burlesque
(132 posts)The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Therefore, it is in the the construed Free Willy clause under the tenth ammendment
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So, along with the right to bear arms, we have the right to bare willy?
C_U_L8R
(45,021 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Virtual Burlesque
(132 posts)It all depends upon the size of the willy you are freeing.
Virtual Burlesque
(132 posts)But in this case repeating that even once is too much.
longship
(40,416 posts)Here are a few more non-consenters.
PWNED!!!
Sovereign citizens' sovereignty is overblown.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Thanks!
John Fante
(3,479 posts)who think that, because they never willingly entered an agreement to be governed by the United States, the laws of this country don't apply to them. It's pseudo-legal nonsense of course, but these fucking lunatics don't care.
The FBI considers them domestic terrorists because they're among the biggest troublemakers around.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Where they stand in the courtroom, how almost all courtrooms are actually maritime courts and therefore not valid, the relationship between legal legitimacy and fringe on the flag present in the room. Their commitment to the jurisprudence of random capitalization, the difference between proper nouns and pronouns, how numbers work. The way they obsess over illegally grazing their cattle on federal land. Their willful misunderstanding of even the simplest reading of the constitution plus the way they quote seemingly random sections, but none of whom have actually read it. Its all glorious lunacy.
At least until they act on their terrorist impulses. Then its not so glorious.
jmowreader
(50,562 posts)Real sovereign citizen thought pattern:
18 USC 31 defines a "motor vehicle" as "every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo." Since that is Federal Law, any "carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power" that is not being used in commerce is not a motor vehicle. Therefore, driver's licenses, registrations and insurance are not required if you are "traveling" noncommercially, only if you are driving commercially.
They have a massive inventory of case law that supposedly backs up their position, except none of it does.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)It reminds me of some of their OTHER craziness. Like the fact that they become so obsessed with their Constitutional craziness, they not only dont understand it, they almost invariably forget that states have them, too.
I was arguing with a supporter IRL of Cliven Bundy not long my ago when he demanded to be shown in the Constitution where it said that the federal government could own property. Its pretty clear, but he decided that it didnt apply, because of the tenth amendment.
So I showed him the Nevada Constitution, which quite clearly gives away most of the states land to the federal government before any of us were ever born. His reaction was... I really have the words for it. Imagine Buddha laying down for his nap under that tree and waking up enlightened. It was something akin to that, and took several more years of deprogramming in my spare time.
struggle4progress
(118,345 posts)teach our children to be afraid of being gunned down by school shooters. They use their movie stars and singers and comedy shows and award shows to repeat their bloody narrative over and over again. And then they make them write letters to the editor and lobby legislatures, to bully and terrorize law-abiding citizens by threatening to keep guns out of the hands of toddlers and crazed lunatic halfwits until the only option left to us is to stop the madness by shooting down Waffle House customers! And when that happens, they use it as an excuse to be outraged. The only way we stop this, the only way we save our country and our freedom, is to shoot more people in Waffle Houses! I'm the National Rifle Association of America, and I'm freedom's safest place"
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Is this a real quote? I can so picture Dana putting on her serious face to say this.
struggle4progress
(118,345 posts)world wide wally
(21,755 posts)I know that conversation is over because I am dealing with a whacko.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)and declared himself a sovereign citizen at the time, yet no one really bothered to follow up. Now four people are dead. IMHO this was preventable.
IronLionZion
(45,529 posts)oh, I think we all know why
Takket
(21,625 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)What I really want to know is, Are these acts a symptom of privilege? Not being called a terrorist is. But the ability to break into the WH lawn, call yourself a sovereign citizen and then have all your guns given back to you. That is something else!
torius
(1,652 posts)and given the bathroom code, just like our fellow Murcans gave Spanky the nuclear code!
DoctorJoJo
(1,134 posts)... shot mostly, if not all, Black people. Trump must be so proud!
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)All four victims were black. So "sovereign citizen" means "white nationalist terrorist'.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Our lives literally depend upon it. Our vote should be to save the lives of our fellow Americans and immigrants.
justgamma
(3,666 posts)duo went from the Bundy ranch to Las Vegas and hunted down and shot those police officers? They killed 5 people.
You know who else hates the US government? The Cons. It's a wonder more people aren't killed because of their language.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,566 posts)The reason you hear that so often in cases like this is because you have to be either crazy or stupid to believe in the concept.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Makes me wonder if it's a marvel or something, the way he wants everyone to see it.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I think it's just part of showing off that he is male and has power.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Think Anthony Weiner. It's a thing. I've been exposed to that sort of thing at least twice. Oops, correction: I remember a third time. Men have been arrested for that since forever.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I think it's just a guy thing. It's not unusual for perps to expose themselves. They love their privates, and think others should enjoy them, too. They also like the shock value.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)He was showing off at the pool!
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I didn't mean any offense.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)The rifle stayed in the vehicle and no one at the pool asked to press charges, the officer said in the report. "This is an informational report showing the state of mind of Travis Reinking," the report said. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/23/us/travis-reinking-guns-trnd/index.html
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Usually some white, male rube from flyover country drawling "I don rekkanize your athoritay!" while they're getting their window bashed in, as they get arrested.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)Many members of the sovereign citizen movement believe that the United States government is illegitimate.[11] JJ MacNab, who writes for Forbes about anti-government extremism, has described the sovereign-citizen movement as consisting of individuals who believe that the county sheriff is the most powerful law-enforcement officer in the country, with authority superior to that of any federal agent, elected official, or local law-enforcement official.[12] This belief comes from the movement's origins in the white-extremist group Posse Comitatus.[13][citation needed]
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) classifies some sovereign citizens ("sovereign citizen extremists" as domestic terrorists.[14] In 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers", with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges".[15]
In surveys conducted in 2014 and 2015, representatives of US law-enforcement ranked the risk of terrorism from the sovereign-citizen movement higher than the risk from Islamic extremism.[16][17] The New South Wales Police Force in Australia has also identified sovereign citizens as a potential terrorist threat.[18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
In other words, insanity joining insanity.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)You have to strike at the serpent's head, scatter it and smother it.
radhika
(1,008 posts)Did he share his son's anti-government, racist beliefs? Was dad also a #sovereigncitizen?
I'm thinking Travis has a whole network that will unite to shelter him for a long time - just like with Olympic Bomber of the past.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)THE nra has made a culture where you can bring a gun to the white house and not go to jail.