Shocking reason behind the Toronto van attack - I found this mind boggling

[Ohiogal]

"The deadly van attack in Toronto is shining a spotlight on the controversial, often misogynistic world of "incels."

The term incel is short for "involuntarily celibate," and the community that uses the label is typically dominated by men voicing frustration online about their lack of sexual relationships, sometimes blaming women for their failures with the opposite sex."

"Toronto police said Tuesday that Alek Minassian, the 25-year-old suspected of driving the van that plowed into pedestrians on a busy stretch of Yonge Street in Toronto's north end Monday, killing 10 people, is alleged to have published "a cryptic post on Facebook minutes before he began driving the rented van."

More:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/what-is-an-incel-toronto-van-attack-explainer-alek-minassian-1.4633893

**********

There just seems to be no end to the hatred of women by some males in our society. It is truly frightening.

[exboyfil]

1. Seems to meet the definition of terrorism to me

The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. In his case trying for a Handmaid's Tale society.

[maxsolomon]

63. I'm reluctantly coming to the same conclusion. Incel Terror.

And I see echoes of this resentment in many many Rampage Shootings, Familycides, etc. Maybe most. Nearly all are committed by men.

Toxic masculinity.

[MineralMan]

2. "Incel" is synonymous with "Misogynistic Asshole," I think.

It's a behavioral problem.

[Volaris]

11. It's also just plain lazy...

These are the clowns who think they should show up at the college cheerleader convention and everybody's just gonna drop their panties and yell 'yeah, daddy, YEAH!!!'

you've gotta do SOME work. Sitting in mommy's basement and posting on subreddit threads about how unfair it all is because you don't wanna put in the work required to get up and go out and go meet members of the sex you're attracted to is just damn lazy on your part.

These people just piss me off, sorry.

[roscoeroscoe]

41. Heck fellas, just try being a good human being first

The rest will fall in naturally

[ProfessorGAC]

46. What Rosco Said!

Act like a twit, get treated like a twit. Of course these idiotic guys have trouble with ladies. They haven't a clue how to behave like an adult male.

[Locrian]

55. yeah it's really not that hard

Have fun, play the odds and be nice - be able to laugh at yourself

A = attitude - its all fun no big deal if it doesn't work with xxx, laugh at your self
B = balls - talk to someone in the first 30 seconds or go home! don't sit around waiting for it to happen
C = charm - have SOME kind of game and be able to carry on a conversation, be it funny, nice, sexy, etc

[Locrian]

51. yeah I don't think they get it

They don't have the emotional ability to make that connection with someone - which means being fun, playful, sexy, nice whatever.
They're the "creeps" women talk about.

[FakeNoose]

71. This is where having a good father-figure makes a difference in a young man's life

It's sad that so many boys grow up without their fathers, for one reason or another. But an older man who cares and gives a good example (yeah I'm not talking about pedophiles either) can be the guide to good humanity. Boys need their fathers, or at least a caring guy who understands them and looks out for them. It's not that hard to understand.

[Straw Man]

29. Agreed.

They used to be lone-wolf abusers or killers. Now, thanks to the Internet, they have a name and a peer group.

[whathehell]

35. or "Misogynist Terrorist" if he believes in killing people over it

[mythology]

3. People like to have someone else to blame

It's why right wing racist parties rise during economic uncertainty. Likewise domestic violence rises with economic uncertainty.

[Guilded Lilly]

4. The hate isnt new, just horrifically enabled in this world.

But yes, fellow Ohiogal (buckeye hug) it is very frightening.

The tendency of violence has always been there among those men who cannot personally handle strong, independently thinking women, but quite often now, it seems like Pandora’s Box has been ripped wide open.

[Squinch]

77. "Not new, just horrifically enabled in this world" is a perfect description.

[ismnotwasm]

5. DU used to be full of MRAs

Incels are an offshoot of the more formally organized Men’s rights activists, which also has ties to white supremacist groups. It was no fun being a feminist here for a number of years.

I recommend following this guy—he’s been calling out those fuckers out for a long time

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com

[DURHAM D]

10. Amen nt

[LexVegas]

12. ...

[SidDithers]

17. Yup...

and great link. Thanks for posting it.



Sid

[SunSeeker]

28. Yep. nt

[brer cat]

37. +10000 nt

[catbyte]

58. Well, that link was terrifying. Mass spraying acid attacks to lash out

because they're so creepy women won't get near them? It's always someone else's fault with these types. I wonder if the website's host knows the violence that site is nurturing. The site you posted is providing a valuable service by outing these creeps. Thanks for posting. I love the name, lol.

[IronLionZion]

61. They should open an MRA/incel dating website

where these guys create profiles describing their frustrations with feminism and women. Law enforcement can monitor it very closely.

[GoneOffShore]

62. Normally I would 'interesting', but there are a lot of very weird things posted there.

I would have liked very much not to have looked under that rock.

Here's yet another perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/25/incels-violent-misogyny-toronto-facebook

[Codeine]

65. This very morning here on DU

someone lamented that men, including himself, who use internet dating services sometimes have to date women two or more steps below their own “Sexual Market Value”.

Ain’t that some shit?

[ismnotwasm]

73. Ew.

So fucking creepy

[Iggo]

97. That ranking system itself is a glaringly bright flashing neon sign. (n/t)

[Codeine]

98. Precisely.

What kind of person thinks that way?

[Squinch]

78. Oh, God, yes. Interesting how they were all kicked off for something else after they had been

trolling women here for ages.

I don't miss those days, but I often wonder how redqueen and seabeyond are doing.

[NightWatcher]

6. Message to incels... fix your attitude and actions towards ladies and some might be more inclined...

to be around you, which is often a precursor to intimacy and or sex.

File under: Duh

[Dave Starsky]

14. Can't even believe this a fucking thing.

When I grew up, EVERY guy knew that if you wanted to score with the ladies, you had to have game. You cleaned up. You worked out. You learned MANNERS and COURTESY and exercised them religiously. You demonstrated consideration and interest in what girls had to say. All around, you brought your absolute best to the table.

These guys are just a bunch of whiny slob losers. It figures, since their President and primary role model is the God King of whiny slob losers.

[Aristus]

24. I agree.

I was pretty unpopular with girls when I was in high school. (And unpopular with everyone else, too.) I was a nice guy. I thought that was all it took, and it upset me that no one I liked seemed to respond to that.

I cringe that if I had taken a wrong turn somewhere, I might have turned into one of these creeps.

As it is, I learned the things you pointed out above, dressing well, working out, observing good manners. I get a lot more positive attention from women now than I ever thought possible, despite not looking like George Clooney.

I suppose being happily married may have something to do with it, but at least now I have the confidence to approach and communicate with women on their terms.

[Dave Starsky]

68. My story is pretty much the same as yours.

I was a pretty shy nerd in high school. Not the best looking guy. But eventually I started taking serious action in all those areas until I felt like I was Lee Majors. Then all kinds of good things started to happen for me.

Two BIG things that made the difference for me:

1) I stopped obsessing over the idea of "having a girlfriend" and just appreciated spending more time hanging out with my female friends, regardless of whether there were any romantic possibilities or not, and
2) Developed and deployed a healthy sense of humor, particularly in regards to being able to laugh at myself. I think this might be THE most important thing. Women love to laugh. Hell, everyone loves a good laugh.

[Blue_Tires]

72. +1

I haven't had a roll in the hay for years, and even I've got the maturity and self-awareness to realize that the fault lies with me and nothing else...

[WhiteTara]

15. women, not ladies

that's a judgement call. If we're not "ladies" should we be treated horribly?

[NightWatcher]

56. Missing my point. I was trying to use a term acceptable to all.

Feel free to replace "ladies" with whichever term you feel applies. (Women, females, ....)

No disrespect intended or implied. I'm just a dude trying to be supportive.

[WhiteTara]

70. Thanks for your support NIghtWatcher

Women is the preferred term.

[NightWatcher]

74. Thank you for letting me know that.

I'm raising a kick ass daughter, am married to an powerful woman, and have become a feminist in my own right. I know that there is power in words and try vigilantly every day to make sure I'm using the right words.

Don't tell anyone but I used to refer to the two genders as "guys" and "girls". I dont do that anymore, even though no ill will was ever meant.

[WhiteTara]

75. at least they weren't chicks!

I always hated that one--not even human. Broads were a fairly strange one to me, what was that one about?

[NightWatcher]

82. I've always refused to make any broad generalizations

or generalizations about broads.

Side note. I've always thought it wrong that when someone is tough, we say they've got balls, but when they're weak we call them a pussy. I was in the delivery room with my wife and vaginas have my utmost respect after seeing what they can do. Once in baseball, I took a foul ball to the stones while wearing a cup and had to be carried out of the game because I passed out. I think we need to flip those sayings. Balls are fragile and vaginas have amazing adaptability.

[WhiteTara]

86. That's actually a Betty White saying.

When someone is very brave and strong, I say they have Ovarios.

And isn't language so interesting? You "took a foul ball to the stones"--another references to how strong they are, when your whole comment was attesting to their fragility.

[Squinch]

81. I love that you accepted that suggestion and went with it. Some men would have just

discounted it with an "Oh, now you're just being a snowflake" attitude. But you are right. There is power in words.

Your daughter is very lucky. She'll be just fine.

[Squinch]

79. Best that they continue to be as cluelessly honest as they are being, so unsuspecting women won't

be tricked into getting involved with them. They're clearly deadly dangerous, and if they ever DID get a girlfriend, it is inevitable they would abuse her.

[mn9driver]

7. The internet provides many dark and nasty places for people with problems.

On some level, these folks know they are way outside of normal and acceptable in their thinking, but they can find online friends who tell them they aren’t alone and they are right to think and feel the Crazy.

The Incel community is a perfect example. These men (yes, they are all men as far as I can tell) are nuts in a very twisted and nasty way. They’ve even been banned from some of the anything-goes forums, like reddit. But there are always other places.

[HopeAgain]

48. I think you are right

it magnifies mental illnesses and dysfunction. It reinforces self-pity, resentments and fear. The rise or racism and xenophobia is another example.

[jimlup]

8. I would say that this takes Misogyny to a new level

that is truly terrorism. Horrible.

If you look a little bit at the psychology it is really about some males feeling inadequate about themselves but I'm sure they (those males) don't get that.

[Maraya1969]

9. Why don't these men just cough up the money for a prostitute? The one guy from CA killed a bunch of

people because he was upset that he remained a virgin through college.

I realize their problems are much bigger than just being able to get laid. And maybe they wouldn't use a prostitute because they look down on these women.

[Lee-Lee]

13. My experience with those types is that they feel its beneath them

They have a deluded opinion of themselves and how great they are, so they think they deserve mates way out of their league and think they shouldn’t have to do anything but show up and get them.

They are the kind that will only go after the most attractive (by societies shallow standards) women. Anything else is beneath them.

They are the kind in high school that would ignore and even make fun of the cute but slightly chubby girl who had a crush on them while thinking they deserved to be with the popular cheerleaders. And when the girls they go after reject them then it’s everybodies fault but theirs. They will analyze and blame every single aspect of the situation but their own faults, they are without fault.

[WhiteTara]

16. In all the fairy tales, he gets the girl just for being there.

[Blue_Tires]

19. +1

[SunSeeker]

25. Yep. In essence, they hate actual women.

What they want is a living sex doll. They don't see women as human beings with whom they can have a partnership or relationship as equals. This of course leads to horrid loneliness, isolation and bitterness.

[Kind of Blue]

44. Yes. I've read on one of the horrible misogynist boards

taken down a few months ago that they feel they have a right to sex and it's a man right to rape when they need to. Also that the the vagina is all too powerful and the one thing that men cannot resist, therefore we should have no control of it simply because nature made men physically stronger.

[Locrian]

45. yeah they want a robot

or sexbot or whatever

I don't even think they want the sex - they want the achievement of being with someone without any work.
They seem to have some type of social disorder where women are objects undignified for any consideration of their feelings - only his matters. The word normal people use to describe this type of male in most dating situations is "creep"

[askyagerz]

34. Yep this is the main culprit I think

Obviously they want the Stacy and jealous of the Chad.
3s trying to go for superficial 10s. If that's really what they want then they better up their game. Girls dont like whiners. In my experience its more about attitude then looks

[ProfessorGAC]

47. That Sure Makes Sense

Too good to pay for it, but everyone else's fault if they're not really a good enough person.

[Lee-Lee]

53. Yep. They are victims in their eyes

They are great and amazing and perfect and are just victims of how evil women and society is and that’s why they can’t get laid.

[ProfessorGAC]

60. Made Me Laugh With That, Lee-Lee!

Victims! Indeed.

[JHB]

57. The CA guy (Elliot Roger) was about 8 suites shy of a full deck

I read Roger's "manifesto" after his rampage. He evidently thought it would show the "injustice" against him, but something else was plain as day: any time he was even mildly prodded outside his comfort zone (e.g., told to go outside and play with the other kids on the block, or a trip to another country to visit relatives) he completely freaked out.

I couldn't find an instance where he so much as talked to a girl, much less got rejected by anyone. Apparently beautiful women were supposed to just fall at his feet unbidden, which is on par for a guy who was convinced he'd win the lottery because he really wanted it.

He was FUCKED UP. Period. So is anyone deluded enough to think he was some kind of martyr, like the Toronto guy, or anyone who doesn't run full-tilt away from an idiotic self-identification like "incel".

[ck4829]

95. That would involve some action on their part

Cruising the streets, paying the prostitute, taking her somewhere, etc.

These men seem to think they should just sit down somewhere and the first "perfect 10" woman who sees them would 'service' them in every possible way he could think of.

[Nonhlanhla]

18. These guys do not become creeps because women won't have sex with them.

It is the other way around. Women do not want to have sex with them because they are creeps.

[argyl]

20. Can't imagine a woman not being attracted to an asshole capable of inflicting such horror.

[meow2u3]

21. It's all misogynistic terrorism

Spare me the "incel" and "MRA" bullshit. This guy is nothing but a misogynistic terrorist and should be treated as such!

[SunSeeker]

22. They hate women and wonder why they're celibate...

[IronLionZion]

23. How does murdering people help this issue?

The people killed probably had nothing to do with this asshole or his whiny first world problems.

[mountain grammy]

26. Men are afraid women will laugh at them

Women are afraid men will kill them. As true as ever.

[bronxiteforever]

31. Wow. Truth! and sad that it is.

+1

[question everything]

27. We've had several shooting, mass shooting, perhapas, in this country

for the same reason.

Cannot remember the specifics.

[handmade34]

33. "Elliot Rodger's Retribution"

https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/25/justice/california-shooting-revelations/index.html

[question everything]

69. Scary. And twisted. (nt)

[cungar2000]

30. Usually average looking guys

Who can't believe they're not asked out by Elite models.

[Thomas Hurt]

32. so just another right leaning entitled dude who thinks women are possessions....

[niyad]

36. I read that earlier. sickening, frightening, horrifying.

these bastards think they are OWED sex and attention from women?? and they can take, rape, violate, whomever they please in retaliation?

where in the ******* hell do they think they are?

[RockRaven]

38. The amount of time and energy

these "incels" spend on analyzing their situation, creating their own vocabulary, writing posts, etc. and they still miss the direction of causation. They're not like that because they're lonely, they're lonely because they are like that.

Their introspection blind spot would almost be funny if they weren't so f-ing harmful/dangerous.

[struggle4progress]

39. "Wait! I know! I'll murder some folk with my van! Then the ladies will be all over me!"

[brooklynite]

64. Well, the best mass murderers always seem to get a lot of pen pals and marriage proposals...

[Corvo Bianco]

40. Pissy little bitches. It is nobody's obligation to fuck you. Go fuck yourself.

[Johnny2X2X]

42. The Misogynistic Right at work

This group is sick and it's Conservative ideology at work. They view women as less than men and lash out because they aren't getting the one thing they think women owe them, sex.

I cannot begin to describe my disgust for these people.

And hint, maybe a big part of the reason you aren't getting laid is that you don't respect women.

[Tavarious Jackson]

43. This man needed one of those dolls. nt

[Doodley]

49. I don't agree with the premise that he specifically hated women. He killed and maimed men as well

as women. This isn't just about hatred of women. The guy is obviously mentally ill and that he might have anger issues for not getting laid says more about his state of mind as a functioning human being than as a woman hater.

[Squinch]

83. No. It was about the women hating.

[Raster]

50. "Since no woman wants to have sex with me, I am going to act like an asshole."

Dude, no woman wants to have sex with you because you act like an asshole.

[Afromania]

52. When I heard this I couldn't believe it. Jesus Christ, just Jesus H fricking Christ.

[catbyte]

54. Just like that asshole in California who shot women because nobody would date him.

Misogyny and entitlement all wrapped up in one despicable little ball. Of course, it's OUR fault, never theirs.

[Runningdawg]

66. First thing I thought of when I read this.

Who knows how many dead serial killers also felt this way...

[IronLionZion]

59. The idea that white males can feel so frustrated enough to kill random strangers

should bother people more than it does. If other demographics felt frustrated with their lives and decided to go on spree killings, we would have a very different type of response and conversation about this problem.

Feminists are perpetually frustrated with men. If feminists went on mass murder sprees of random men, we would have a very different response to this problem.

But entitled white males? thoughts and prayers.

[ansible]

67. This is the end result of a hypersexualized society with free access to porn, IMO

Guys getting a reality check when they find out that women aren't like the porn stars they saw on the internet go mad. This guy isn't even particularly exceptional aside from his van attack, there are entire online communities dedicated to the inability to get laid and being extremely mad as a result.

[MicaelS]

76. This is it in a nutshell.

"They have this huge resentment towards society and women, mostly women, because they feel that women are rejecting them even though they see themselves as nice guys. And that is the feeling of injustice that can fuel radicalization," Fiset said.

This is not the first time, or even second time this has happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/pennsylvania.gym.shooting/

[Squinch]

84. It happens kind of a lot. You know what is one of the universal characteristics of

mass shooters? They all have previous histories as violent sexual or domestic abusers. Even the young ones in high schools tend to have some history of abuse of females or at least a very developed and overt fantasy scape of abusing women.

[MicaelS]

85. I think that entitlement forms a great deal of the motives..

Of mass shooters. They feel entitled to a certain lifestyle, and when they don't get it, they go an kill people.

[Squinch]

87. But toxic male entitlement ALWAYS includes entitlement to women's bodies.

[MicaelS]

89. I agree. n/t

[calimary]

80. But didn't you know? We're here to be containers.

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2018, 03:15 AM - Edit history (1)

We’re receptacles for the Almighty Penis, and then receptacles for their seed. That’s our main value.



“Uppity” women who are in charge of their own lives and who find their own worth as WAY more than just passive, open, convenient containers - have no value in that backward-thinking cultural metric.

[SoCalDem]

88. 3 words can get guys a girlfriend...

BE LESS CREEPY

Every woman I have ever known (myself included) has a built in creep detector..

[FSogol]

90. This is a side effect of the self-imposed isolation created by spending all of ones time online.

They never learned to interact with others, especially members of the opposite sex.

[Amaryllis]

91. NPR did segment on that today.

It's women's fault they don't get sex because women won't give it to them.

[pansypoo53219]

92. toxic testosterone.

[AwakeAtLast]

93. Oh no, it's voluntary

If you volunteer to be an asshole, you are volunteering to forego sex. That shouldn't be hard to figure out.

[vercetti2021]

94. No one to blame but themselves

If you're super creepy or show the slightest bit of control. No one will date you.

I'll admit I'm still a virgin and haven't had the best success in relationships, but I don't blame women like these idiots do. It's just how you are and how you come off.

[Iggo]

96. Can't-get-laids?

Sorry, guys. You don't have an inalienable right to stick your penis in someone else.