Wypipo Poll

[EffieBlack]

There is still a lot of discussion back and forth about the term "Wypipo." I have my own opinion about how the views break down between the two sides and along and within racial lines- but it's largely anecdotal and I'd like to get a chance better sense of where people are on this.

This thread is not an invitation to fight about this - there are plenty of other threads where that's taking place, so please don't launch into any arguments here. I'm just trying to "read the room," so I'd appreciate it if you would just answer the poll without a lot of unnecessary commentary.

Thanks.

63 votes, 5 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I'm white and think it's a racist slur against white people that should never be used
	5 (8%)
	I'm a POC and think it's a racist slur against white people that should never be used
	0 (0%)
	I'm white and don't think it's a racist slur, but I am offended by it
	0 (0%)
	I'm a POC and don't think it's a racist slur, but I am offended by it
	0 (0%)
	I'm white, don't think it's a slur and am not personally offended by it, but understand why it might offend someone else
	18 (29%)
	I'm a POC, don't think it's a slur and am not personally offended by it, but understand why it might offend someone else
	4 (6%)
	I'm white and don't think it's a slur and don't think it's offensive at all
	33 (52%)
	I'm a POC and don't think it's a slur and don't think it's offensive at all
	3 (5%)
	5 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Caliman73]

1. Need more choices.

I don't think it is a racist slur. It is likely offensive to some people, but I am not offended by it.

[whathehell]

4. Definitely in need of more choices..

I'd suggest this one:.

It's a divisive "nickname" for a particularly group. Anyone checking the DU Rules will see it expressly forbids "'nicknames for a particular group". Just a thought.

[NurseJackie]

12. That's not what it says.

...nicknames to any groups of people that are part of the Democratic coalition...

Are those being referenced individuals actually those who share the values of, and who support, and who are a part of the Democratic coalition?

It's unclear to me why anyone would be so concerned about the delicacies and sensibilities of this "particularly group". The affection and concern being expressed for them for them is perplexing to me.

[whathehell]

15. Um, so White People aren't part of the Democratic coalition?

That's certainly news to us.

[NurseJackie]

17. You're already lost the argument...

15. Um, so White People aren't part of the Democratic coalition?

You're already lost the argument if that's the best you've got.

That's certainly news to us.

Stand by. There are many more surprises ahead.

[Caliman73]

16. Agreed.

People are defending individuals that have been defined as caring about animal abuse, but caring nothing about the systematic brutalization of people of color by police, the discrimination against people of color in employment and housing, etc...

Are those people truly a part of the Democratic coalition, and do we want them to be?

[procon]

30. Clarify which "particularly group" are you citing that is actually found on DU? nt

[NurseJackie]

31. I can't speak for that poster. You'll need to ask him/her yourself.

[JackInGreen]

54. Hey now

Dont let's get in the way of the teamsmanship that'll keep us name calling and sniping at each other through the next election, we might win something together.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

178. Not even close... try again!

[Bucky]

125. The options are exhaustive and mutually exclusive

It's about as scientifically valid as a poll using this software can allow

[Caliman73]

128. The change I requested was made in the morning.

Thanks

[Bucky]

130. #democracy is when your voice matters

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

2. I'm white, don't think it's racist or offensive, but ...

... just think it's a made-up word that's kind of childish and dumb. The sort of thing I'd expect from Trump. I don't think I'll be using the term anytime soon.

-- wybozo

[EffieBlack]

3. Lol

[Trust Buster]

5. Bingo.

[grumpyduck]

33. Yup.

I could come up with a bunch of labels myself. Let's see... okay, how about "dembaconut:" a Democrat who loves bacon.

Just another pointless label.

[Tipperary]

8. Spot on.

All these silly nickname threads are divisive. Personally, it does not sound like a phonetic spelling as many people try to say. To me it looks like something a child who is not able to pronounce words would say.

[whathehell]

13. "To me, it sounds like something a child who is not able

to pronounce words would say".

Yup, that is spot on too.

[NurseJackie]

21. It would probably be a great benefit to get out more...

Personally, it does not sound like a phonetic spelling as many people try to say.

It would probably be a great benefit to get out more and familiarize yourself with different accents and slang. The dropping of hard consonants within words and phrases is more common that you obviously realize. It's cultural and regional and widespread. It's multi-generational.

To me it looks like something a child who is not able to pronounce words would say.

Ah... a passive-aggressive and backhanded insult that appears to come from a place of privilege. Charming.

All these silly nickname threads are divisive.

Pot, meet Kettle.

All I'm saying is... if "divisiveness" is really something you truly and honestly care about, it doesn't show.

[EffieBlack]

46. This is pretty rich on a board rife with "Katy Turd," "Ghouliani" "Spanky,"" McTurtle

"McTurtle," and other childish name-calling. And when anyone objects and says these names are childish and detract from our message, we hear lectures about how those people "deserve" to be mocked, the names are a harmless outlet for expression, etc.

I personally don't think "Wypipo" is childish or name-calling - it's actually a rather precise, incisive and humorous description in a long tradition in our community - but even if you think it is, it's certainly not the first time such a tool is used around here with little complaint or pushback.

[NurseJackie]

50. I'm learning a lot from the push-back and objections to the word "wypipo". Only...

I'm learning a lot from the push-back and objections to the word "wypipo". Only, I suspect that the things that I'm finding out and discovering aren't exactly what the loudest complainers wanted me to notice.

One merely needs to listen, read, and pay attention to what's going on around them... so many things become clear. That's certainly true based on my recent observations.

[wryter2000]

110. What you said.

Says more about the people complaining than anything else, imho

[TeeYiYi]

90. Every community...

...has their "long tradition" of "precise, incisive and humorous descriptions" of other cultures and ethnic groups. As a young child, I didn't understand. As a teenager, I didn't approve. As an adult, I don't tolerate.

TYY

[Caliman73]

18. ALL words are made up.

Language is an abstraction. It is code to define objects in the physical world, emotions, thoughts, and concepts. What makes them offensive, or childish and dumb is how people react to what they represent.

Moron, Imbecile, and Mentally Retarded were all clinical terms that were used to describe people who have developmental disabilities that resulted in levels of intellectual functioning below a certain standard. The terms were retired from clinical use when because of how people were using them, they became offensive and barriers to treating people with dignity.

Phrases like, "You hit like a girl" are used to disparage people, men in particular, by associating them with women, who are perceived to be weak and ineffectual.

I am not a particular fan of "Wypipo" and would likely not use it myself, but I understand how it is used in context. People of color talk to each other about their experience, often because White people do not care to hear about it. We used terms to describe certain behavioral patterns in certain groups of individuals just like any other group of people do. Like we all agree that a car is a vehicle with 4 wheels, with an engine and transmission that travels on the ground over roads. Given the relatively small amount of social power that people of color have in any given society, especially in the US (as it is where this conversation is taking place), the term "Wypipo" is mainly internal dialogue that people on the board chose to share to have a discussion on race and language.

The irony is that certain people are upset about the term, but the larger point about how EVERYDAY language has been used to oppress people of color or communicate social norms that exclude people of color, sails right over their head. It is called "divisive" instead of being a learning experience.

[procon]

47. The prevailing reasoning seems to center around its OK for black people to

use derogatory names against white people because they have a shared history and white people are too imperious.

Is the reverse then just as permissible and should not be seen as divisive, and accepted without objection... yes... no? If the goal is to "teach" (and that's only a courtesy, as I haven't seen anything yet that would offer any assurity that's the case) how does the stratagem of "sharing" the hostile labels that blacks use to ridicule and dehumanize white people serve to educate them or produce the desired change in their attitude?

[NurseJackie]

52. ...

[Caliman73]

57. I disagree.

The prevailing reasoning, in your view, is that Black people are permitted to use derogatory terms against White people. Just as in the view of some people, affirmative action programs were an "unfair advantage" for people of color who did not deserve the opportunity to attend university because they had the bad luck of being born to a discriminated against minority. I can understand that the term "wypipo" is offensive to some, but what power does it have? What power do people of color have in this country to use the term to change a White person's life an any way?


Is the reverse then just as permissible and should not be seen as divisive, and accepted without objection... yes... no?

The reverse has been permitted throughout history. It is called the history of the United States. Only 150 years ago Black people were considered property. Only since 1971, two years before I was born, it was legal for States to not allow people of color to marry White people. Only 50 or so years ago, States could legally put special obstacles up against people of color in housing, employment, voting, and the use of public facilities. Some of those protections were taken away Federally in the past years and the States quickly began putting those barriers back up. So, laws have changed to protect historically vulnerable populations, but attitudes have not changed as quickly. The president has a history of discrimination against people of color and a history of racial antagonism, yet there he is.

Instead of introspection or asking people of color WHY a term like that might be used, there is assumption, defensiveness, and dismissal. People want to be spoon fed in ways that will not offend any of their preconceived notions.

[procon]

66. Me too!

As to your first point, you make the claim that the word "wypipo" has no power, but you haven't thought past the enormous power of words to create a disruptive influence and contribute to the deepening rift. Reading the objections and the volume of posts, "wypipo" has become a powerful invective embraced by black people who recognize the advantage that word has when it is wielded like a lance. That's a heady combination to ignore.

In your second point, nothing in your historical dissertation is changed, altered or improved by tacking offensive labels on people based on racial differences. You assume that whites surely can't object to the word "wypipo" because its actually offensive as a racial stereotype,and prefer to find comfort in your own 'preconceived notions', yeah?

[Caliman73]

75. You can object all you want. No one is saying you can't.

If you choose to focus only on what is offensive and divisive to you instead of understanding where the frustration and anger that leads to the word, then there is nothing that I can say to change that.

We all take comfort in our preconceived notions, some of us (you) are just lucky that our preconceived notions are the dominant discourse.

[procon]

79. Don't do that.

I wrote nothing of the sort, and lucky most people are capable of multitasking. It shouldn't be a surprize
that we can readily take offence at a demeaning racial epithet while we also support groups that work to build cooperative coalitions that foster change rather than those that are focused on contentious racial stereotyping.

Carry on and do not try to change anything, just stick with the either/or concept and the preconceived labels, it has all the hallmarks of a winning combination.

[lapislzi]

74. I think I understand its use and how it applies to me as a white woman.

I wish it didn't, but I (hope I) understand the level of my own privilege, and how most, if not all, of it is unearned. I see it as a challenge to do better and be better.

Given the history of Europeans in this hemisphere, it's not at all surprising that there's plenty of slang used to refer to them. And why should the slang be nice?

[moriah]

150. .... What's embarrassing as a white person to me is any white person giving a damn.

My dad referring to a person a "n---" happened all the time around me before I started telling him to shut his face.

And yes, here in the South his choice of language about someone behind their back definitely COULD have significantly influenced how they were treated. He was the one saying the n-word was okay because it was a description of "behavior", to justify using it. Yet his immediate label of someone as that could have hurt if they'd needed a job from someone Dad knew.

A black person calling me "wypipo" isn't going to cost me a job, a mortgage, a chance at a promotion....

And it's frankly silly to get upset about.

[ehrnst]

169. +1000 (nt)

[hunter]

37. As a frequent practitioner of dumb childish humor I'm hugely offended by your post.

[Stallion]

7. I Think Its the Kind of Distracting BULLSHIT Democrats Use to Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory

[whathehell]

10. That too..

but some here seem oblivious to any goal beyond Venting.

[BannonsLiver]

127. Venting?

I think the intent is a bit more insidious than that, actually.

[Orsino]

9. I think it should be used with care, if the intent is to identify toxic behavior.

But I am much more outraged by the toxic behavior that birthed it, and will not waste any more time on the goddamned word.

[WhiteTara]

11. and of course, wypipo are offended

it speaks to them. Light shining is the best disinfectant for all sorts of things that hide in the dark, especially the things that hide in our own minds. Egos are slippery little devils and it's easy to get caught in one.

[NurseJackie]

14. There you go!

That's exactly it.

[oberliner]

20. No one's offended

People are just noting how dumb this word is.

[WhiteTara]

118. why? Because it's not Anglican?

[NurseJackie]

120. Makes sense to me.

I think you're getting very close to the truth. Uncomfortably close for some, probably.

up

[WhiteTara]

122. Indeed. I got a rather nasty pm from one person

which was so cryptic I didn't figure it out. But the gist seemed to be that person was offended.

[NurseJackie]

123. I did too.

[WhiteTara]

124. and here I thought I was special

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. Jack beats the living shit out of Joe every day after school, Joe has bruises, cuts

and lifelong scars from these beatings. They go on every single day from 4th grade to 12th grade.

Then when the two graduate from high school, on graduation day, Joe looks over at Jack in front of everyone and says "asshole."

At which point ensues a national conversation over whether or not Joe calling Jack an asshole is over the line.

[EffieBlack]

67. I think what people completely miss here is that "Wypipo" isn't about white people

It's not even primarily about "Wypipo"

The term is an effort by black people to describe dynamics that impact us on a daily basis, dynamics that are caused and inflicted by "Wypipo," but the term is about US and OUR experiences, not them.

Much of the negative reaction I've seen is extraordinarily self-centered. Because it refers to them, it must be about them and only about them. Because some white people don't like it, it must have been created with the intention of insulting and harming white people. The angst completely divorces the meaning consistently described by the people who created and use the word. NO, we're told. I don't care what YOU say. I don't like the word, therefore, you MEANT for it to hurt ME and you MUST STOP USING IT NOW!

Here's a clue for these folks - Wypipo and others - everything's not about YOU. This isn't only or even primarily about YOU. And people aren't going to stop expressing themselves with words that speak to their truth just because YOU all of a sudden got wind of it and don't like it and feel entitled to tell them how they may and may not describe their reality.

[Eliot Rosewater]

68. I get that and thought about my analogy when writing it that the word really isnt

a synonym for asshole.

But the reality is if AA say or do anything in reacting to the non stop violence pointed at them, there is instant whining or create a term that helps them cope with the constant violence they are treated to, etc.

[EffieBlack]

69. I wasn't directing this at you - sorry if it sounded like I was

[Eliot Rosewater]

70. No, but I take what you say as education for me, more than you realize.

I seek out posts like the one you just posted because it is how I learn.

It is time non POC (i cant use that W word, draws WAY too much attention) listen and learn, as it is time for men to listen and learn to women.

[greyl]

148. Uhh,

""Wypipo" isn't about white people"

"It's not even primarily about "Wypipo" "

...

"The term is an effort by black people to describe dynamics that are caused and inflicted by "Wypipo,""

I think that might spell the end of discussion on this topic. (It should)

It's been exhausted and left incoherent, yet disruptive as it ever was.

[oberliner]

19. How many threads do we need on this nonsense? 10? 20?

[NurseJackie]

25. Including yours?

[Kirk Lover]

86. ZING!!! nt

[grantcart]

109. This is a poll. Listening rather than telling. What possible objection

Could you have to getting a sample, albeit nonscientific, on the general reaction of people who haven't posted threads, or is your point that everyone should be quiet after you post an OP.

[Tarc]

140. Why hello there

[MineralMan]

166. Need? How many do we need?

What kind of question is that? This website allows people to post as they please. It's not about your needs or mine. I don't know about you, but I can click or not click on any thread, as I choose. You have clicked on this one, by your own choice. So, apparently, the topic needed one more thread for you to read.

If you think there are too many threads on a subject, just don't read the excess ones. Simple, huh?

[mercuryblues]

22. My choice

I'm white. I don't think it is a racist term. I am not offended by the term because I try my best to not be a wypipo. If I happen to err, i would deserve it for being such a jackass.

I noticed a some of the same people that are offended by it seem to minimize & therefor rationalize racism . They also seem to go out of their way to accomplish that.

Sort of like saying talking about racism is divisive and exactly what Russian trolls are aiming for. Don't fall for it. The unwritten message in that language is to not bring up racism or examples of racism. Doing so only encourages Russia and that is not patriotic. And then they wonder why people are not receptive to that "suggestion"

[Twisty]

23. I'm white...

Well, half white and half Native American, and I'm not offended, because I have no clue what it means and don't really care.

[Bok_Tukalo]

24. If you know someone named Robert

... and he does not like the diminutive Bob, yet you consistently call him that after he has asked you to please call him Robert, you're a Richard no matter how many people you know who are okay with Bob.

[EffieBlack]

29. I know lots of Robert's. Some prefer to be called Bob. Some don't like it but don't mind

Some hate it.

The fact that some of them don't like to be called Bob doesn't mean that no one can ever say the word "Bob."

And if you're a Robert who doesn''t like to be called Bob and you hear me refer to other people I know named Bob, and I tell you repeatedly that I'm not talking about you, since your name isn't Bob, if you get all worked up and insist that my referring to people named Bob is an attack on you, you're going to sound like a complete nut and your upset is YOUR problem, not mine

[Bok_Tukalo]

32. "I wasn't talking about you" is a weak defense for using a racial epithet

But I get that you are ignoring the obvious point that if someone tells you something is offensive, others being okay with it doesn't make it suddenly inoffensive.

[EffieBlack]

36. This was YOUR hypo. Don't get mad if it actually supported MY point

Like "wypipo," Bob describes a specific subset of people within a particular, larger category of people to whom the term does not apply. If you don't fall within the group of people that it describes - if you're a Robert, not a Bob - there's no reason for you to take it personally.

If you're going to play hypotheticals with me, you need to step up your game. Exponentially

[Bok_Tukalo]

38. Okay. I will speak plainly then since you are going to be obtuse.

If someone tells you a racial pejorative is offensive, other people telling you it isn't doesn't change that.

[EffieBlack]

41. How many people must think it's offensive before we're not allowed to utter the word?

One? Ten? Five percent?

And by that same token, have you ever stepped into a thread to try to shut down any white DUer who tells a person of color that we're being "divisive" when we discuss race, an accusation that many of us find - and have repeatedly told you and others that we find - deeply offensive, only to be told that expressing our objection is only FURTHER divisive?

If you have, I missed it. But I think it more likely that, for some folk, concerns about shutting down offensive language is a completely one-way street available only to certain people and certain kinds of "offense."

[procon]

58. No, it's definitely an attack, a controlling tactic used to belittle someone

who is viewed as unworthy. It's the jerk guy who always calls all the wait staff, "Jose" because they are beneath his notice. The boss who shortens women's names to a belittling diminutives and cheap pet names to assert his dominance. It's the pompous woman who who greets everyone as "Honey" because she doesn't see them as important enough to learn their names. It's the self righteous cliques with their secret code names who treat others in the same repressive manner they themselves lament, then puzzle about why that surefire approach backfired.

[EffieBlack]

61. How does a black person saying "Wypipo" to describe people who exhibit defined behaviors control an?

[procon]

72. Probably for all the same reasons that people object to the "n" word,

regardless of who is saying it or the excuses they invent to justify using it. It's wrong because of the intent. Any such label is intended to humiliate and dehumanize another human being for being different, for thinking, or looking or acting differently than those hurling the invectives.

Nothing is gained by using petty epithets, they don't stop the problem, they don't change anyone's mindset or make them more likely to see your POV in a more sympathetic manner.

[EffieBlack]

80. "Wypipo" isn't "nigger." It's not anything close to it.

And the fact that you would even try to equate the two speaks volumes.

And, FYI, “nigger” isn’t a “petty epithet.”

And if truly believe that “Wypipo” inflicts upon, threatens or even suggests to any white person the kind of sanctioned, savage brutality associated with the word that is so synonymous with hate and violence and filth that you don’t even feel comfortable typing it out, you are too ill-informed and confused to participate in any serious conversation about race and you need to check yourself, your privilege and your assumptions before writing another word.

Care to take back anything you just wrote?

[procon]

83. No. The hate has to stop.

Why is that so hard to understand?


If you object to the lame reasons white people use to dehumanize blacks, then why doesn't that same rationale apply to this latest forms of racial hatred? I keep asking for a goal, some purpose or a beneficial payoff in using race based slurs to label those people you object to, but how does that provide a solution?

[EffieBlack]

85. You really need to go sit down somewhere.

Really.

Bye, Felicia.

[procon]

88. Listen to yourself.

Now it's back to the passive aggressive pot shots again? It's definitely a pattern now. If you can't even stop name calling long to formulate any response beyond shut up and get thee to the "Naughty Stool" -- LOL! Sorry, just pretend I'm not chuckling -- why even bother to reply?

[SMC22307]

163. Answer his or her question.

How is the name-calling of a group of people -- any group of people -- beneficial?

You think the Democratic Party can win with just POC votes? LOL Good luck with that. What pops out of your mouth has zero impact on my vote, but there are those who are swayed by what others have to say, sadly. Speak freely, but don't feign surprise at any consequences.

[Iggo]

26. .

[GitRDun]

27. It's a slur

Not something I will lose my mind over, but it's a slur that has no place on DU.

Opens the door for many other terms we don't want as a part of a civil discussion.

[progressoid]

34. Hahahaha. I find it funny that DU is now mostly populated by the AARP demographic*

yet is consumed by these Jr High School level discussions.





*I'm part of that AARP demographic btw

[SMC22307]

164. White AARP demographics, ba-by!

This once was a site of ideas, a place to learn -- now it's reduced to discussions of stupid shit seen on Twitter and other social media.

Truly sad, not Drumpf sad.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. I'm an American who is 'black' with a mother AND a husband who is white

and my husband is from Italy (immigrant)

And of all the things I have to worry about with my mother and husband -

This is not one.

[hunter]

39. Oh, I do understand why it might offend someone else...

... but there are two ways of looking at that option.

[aikoaiko]

40. I though Wipipo was supposed to be an offensive slur?

:shurg:

[Fozzledick]

42. It's just something Tr0lp1p0 say.

It's meant to be offensive to divide people against each other, but it comes off as just dumb.

Says more about the user than the target.

[EffieBlack]

48. You know how it's meant by every person who says it. Wow.

In that case, Ilook forward to you stepping in and castigating the next person who tells a person of color that they are totally off-base in saying that a particular act was racist "because you have no way of knowing what's in that person's heart."

[Fozzledick]

53. Indeed, I do know how it's meant by those who use it here to divide Democrats against each other.

I don't look forward to you acknowledging it because, well, that would be telling.

[EffieBlack]

65. OK. Whatever

I look forward to further demonstration of your psychic abilities and insights.

[d_r]

43. I think the word "lame" is kind of offensive

It can be used to describe a poor argument or excuse, but in slang, it is used to refer to something that is "un-cool" - nerdy, dorky. But I think it is an example of semantic shift - where a word that used to be acceptable becomes a slur over time. An example of that is the word "retarded." A century ago, words like "cretin," "moron," and "imbecile" were considered perfectly appropriate words to refer to someone with an intellectual disability. By the 1950s, those words were clearly used as slurs, and so the word "retarded" became the preferred word to refer to someone with an intellectual disability. But over time, that word became used as a slur, and today we realize that it is not appropriate to refer to someone with an intellectual disability because it has become a slur. So we created the term "intellectual disability." I think the word "lame" is another example of that. It used to be a perfectly acceptable term to refer to someone with a physical disability. For example, historical records of the time refer to Sequoyah, the developer of the Cherokee Syllabary as "lame." But, over time, it began to be used as a slur, and now it means something that is "un-cool and dorky." Another example is the word "gay." It used to mean something like "happy and cheerful," then was used as a positive way to refer to homosexuals, then became a slur to refer to homosexuals, then became a word like "lame" that meant "un-cool or dorky." That one is more complicated, because the use of the word "gay" to mean "uncool" can be perceived as a slur by someone who is homosexual. There are other examples of this, but I think you get my point.

So, in my view, none of those words should be used in polite, kind, civilized interactions. It doesn't really matter if the person who speaks them intended to be hurtful or to use the word as an insult or slur, they have been used as slurs so often that they have become so. If one's intentions are not to be hurtful, then one should simply avoid using the terms so that they are not misunderstood. Sometimes, people genuinely do not understand or realize that these sorts of loaded words are slurs, and if so, they should discontinue using them when they learn that they are hurtful. This is not a function of "political correctness," it is a matter of being a decent and kind person. If you know a word is hurtful but you use it anyway, then you are an asshole.

The meanings of words change over time, and the use of a word as a slur is in the intention of the user, but it is also in the ear of the person the term is directed to. If a term is commonly used as a slur, it becomes a slur.

In this particular case, I wrote this because I wanted to say that the term was "lame," as in "un-cool or dorky," because the term is only a made up attempt to generate a slur that is being used to try to get attention in a way that comes off sort of pitifully desperate. But, I didn't want to say "lame" because I know it can be a hurtful term. So I will say I think the term is "un-cool." I understand that repressed groups can feel a sense of power in sharing nicknames for majority groups, and I appreciate that. It does not "hurt my feelings" any more than any other term that is used to slur groups that I do not belong to, such as "retarded" or "gay," but, although it doesn't sting me personally, I can certainly see that those words are ugly and hurtful even if they do not refer to me, so I can resist using them. To intentionally try to create and propagate a slur does not seem to me to be consistent with a courteous, kind, respectful society.

[gollygee]

63. I agree with you

It took me a long time to correct my teenager to get them to stop using that word.

[Decoy of Fenris]

44. Not getting involved in the discussion, but you missed the chance for "Wypipoll". I'm disappointed.

n/t, but there wasn't enough room in the title, so here it is.

[EffieBlack]

49. Damn!

Missed that one by a mile, didn't I?

[Decoy of Fenris]

59. You'll get the next one. I just couldn't let that one slip by punsaid. n/t

[MicaelS]

45. I am a 60 yr old cis white man, and I think...

It is funny as hell, but that is just me.

I find it funny, because part of it applies to me, in that I wear shorts nearly year round. Being "weight challenged" I find the extra insulation requires extra cooling.

It is interesting how black speech toward whites has evolved over the years. I remember the days of "honky" back during the 60s/70s. With pale white skin and flaming red hair, I was called "red-headed peckerwood", or just peckerwood. It never really offended me, because I loved Richard Pryor and Red Foxx, and had all their albums. I miss Richard Pryor, and still think of him as the funniest comic of all time.

All in all, I think I would rather be called wypipo than honky.

[MarvinGardens]

51. Related anecdote.

I'm white, and am indifferent to this term. My wife, who is black, will not use the term "redneck", even in private to refer to actual rednecks, because she thinks it is a racist insult toward white people. When I use it, it's sure meant as an insult, but racist? I don't know. This term wypipo has the same feel to me. It's surely meant as an insult against particular people, but racist? Meh.

[Kentonio]

55. Hmm..

I think we're missing an option for 'Yes its a slur but no I don't care and I'm not offended. If people do care, they're probably part of the reason it start being used in the first place'.

[applegrove]

56. It is a broad brush. Meant to offend people who voted for Obama and then

Trump. People who might be voting Democratic who come to this site having realized Trump was "f"ing with them. It is meant to divide people. As the poll shows.

[NurseJackie]

60. Oh please! The poll shows no such thing. People can have different opinions without being "divided".

It is meant to divide people. As the poll shows.

Oh please! The poll shows no such thing. People can have different opinions without being "divided". GMAFB!

I do think, however, that the poll and responses are very revealing... only... probably not in the way you imagine them to be.

[EffieBlack]

64. Polls document divides so they are divisive?

Gotcha

[applegrove]

71. Divisive in a way that will turn off some Obama Obama Trump voters

off. A blue wave includes some who got conned by Trump.

[EffieBlack]

81. Lots of black folk are offended by Democrats who keep reaching out to Trump supporters.

Are YOU being divisive when you do that? Should you stop doing it because WE find it offensive? Are you worried that WE might walk away because WE’RE insulted?

[applegrove]

89. Do you want a blue wave? Don't you want more people in the WE'RE ALL

IN THIS TOGETHER movement like the one that has taken over canada? Cause you have to win elections to get the politicians who will appeal to that side of all our natures.

[EffieBlack]

91. You didn't answer my question

[applegrove]

93. I'm a woman. Are you saying that anyone who ever said anything sexist cannot vote for my party?

People get fooled. They change back. They change over time. I'll be having none of what you are having. I recognize Donald Trump as a dangerous populist who will use diversity against people. It is a weakness of democracy. We fight back using free speech and moderated forums like this where the right cannot get in and scare off Obama Obama Trump voters who voted economic and racial anxiety and regreat it because it was all bullshit and they know it now. Just because democracy had a weak momment doesn't mean we throw out democracy and try to offer the country better choices the next time around.

[EffieBlack]

94. No. I'm not saying that.

I’m saying that whenever anyone tells Black DUers to watch what we say about race and racism around here because white Trump voters might read it and get so offended they might not vote Democratic this time around, I wonder why there never seems to be an equivalent concern - and definitely no lectures and admonishments - about the plethora of comments that offend, insult and dismiss black voters in general and black DUers in particular and could provoke them not to vote Democratic.

[applegrove]

97. I added more to my responce to you above. A big tent is hard but necessary. Trudeau

didn't come up with diversity is our strength out of thin air. He did it because he is a good man who knows canada can live up to the best of ideals if it acknowledges its past and actively promotes a shared future for everyone. You have to vote goood people in to get the policy we need to have a great country. I speak out whenever I see some anti anything democratic talk. I'm an alert queeen. I even wrote skinner a note back when some trolls were putting black and non black duers at each others throats. They tried it with Women right after women won Obama a second term. I saw the pattern. I alerted the admins. I will do so again. I see a pattern here of people not wanting the DU to grow come the elections. We need to grow. Nobody really wants to be a slithering asswipe racist fuck deep down inside. The GOP has been gentilely cultivating the garden of racism for generations. I speak out on that when I see it.

[EffieBlack]

99. Thanks for the elaboration, but it still doesn't answer my question

[NurseJackie]

95. Still didn't and probably won't.

91. You didn't answer my question

Still didn't and probably won't. At best, you'll be treated to evasive maneuvers and word-play and "answering a question with a non-responsive question". Ugh.

[EffieBlack]

96. Yep

[gollygee]

62. Holy crap I'd voted on my phone earlier and I'd hit the wrong thing

I need new glasses.

[NurseJackie]

98. You can "undo" and re-vote. Also...

... I think there was a quick edit* of the poll and early responders may have had their original vote counted toward the edited vote. (*Just a guess.)

[gollygee]

100. I fixed it when I noticed :)

[Inkfreak]

73. I would not expect someone who uses it to give two fucks whether I approve or not.

So idgaf if someone does. It’s just an indicator to me of that persons mindset and I’ll make a mental note.

[VOX]

76. These days I pick my battles, and "Wypipo" isn't even skirmish material.

I’m not offended in the least by the term. In fact, it makes me laugh.

[Freethinker65]

77. Never heard the term outside of DU

First noticed it here this year. Did it originate on Twitter as indicated by Urbandictionary in 2016?

[Docreed2003]

78. This poll needs more WYPIPO!! Lmao!

[Crunchy Frog]

82. Another thread to trash.

[EffieBlack]

87. But thanks for kicking it first!

[TeeYiYi]

84. It's an intentionally demeaning slur...

However, people who denigrate others, with disparaging language like "wypipo" or "blapipo" while speaking "among themselves" on social media, are people that I'm not likely to encounter more than one time.

TYY

[SMC22307]

165. So, I'm guessing "wypipo" and "blapipo" are now acceptable terms on DU?

Ugh. If I wanted that sort of childishness, I'd spend more time on social media, but I come to DU hoping for *elevated* discussion.

[Gothmog]

92. K&R

[Doodley]

101. What we find from this poll is that some people find it offensive, and it is time to stop using

racist language that some people find offensive. Does the OP think it is fine to use racist language if only a minority are offended?

[EffieBlack]

102. So, if some people find something offensive, that means that it must be eliminated?

Great. Here are a few things that i find offensive - and I'm sure that some others do, too - so I look forward to you joining un in making sure that everyone stops doing it:

1. Being described as "race-baiting" when we attempt to discuss race and racism
2. Being asked"Why does everything have to be about race?"
3. Having to put up with "Oh, no. Not THIS shit again," posts in response to black people talking about race
4. Being told that addressing issues of concern to people of color is "identity politics""
5. Being told that economic equality will alleviate racism.
6. Being told that our experiences with race and racism are not relevant or credible
7. Listening to excuses for cops arresting and/or shooting innocent, unarmed black men
8. Being told that we can't say obviously racist behavior is racist because we "don't know what was in their heart""
9. Being told that we can't determine whether racism was involved in a situation until "we know all the facts" or that we "don't know what happened before the video""
10. Being accused of "being divisive" whenever we discuss race and racism
11. Having to put up with white people telling us that "Wypipo" is equivalent to the n-word
12. Having people claim "Wypipo" applies to all white people, even after was explained to them for the umpteenth time that it doesn't
13. Being told what black people mean when we say "Wypipo" even after we explained for the umpteenth time that that's not what we mean
14. Having to watch our fellow Democrats reaching out to Trump supporters
15. Being told that it wrong to call Trump supporters racist because we might offend them
16. Being told that we shouldn't object to reaching out to Trump supporters when we don't want to make room for racists in our tent
17. Being told that if we don't support Bernie Sanders, that means we just don't "understand" what he really stands for
18. Having to put up with our that civil rights icons who don't support Bernie Sanders being called "sellouts"
19. Having to hear one more time that Bernie Sanders "was arrested protesting for civil rights" 55 years ago
20. Having to watch the same people who dismiss every one of our concerns and objections as divisive, overreactive whining whine like babies at the mere suggestion that someone has said something they find objectionable and then demand that everyone stop doing whatever it is that offends them.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure other folks can come up with lots more.

So, since some people find all of these things offensive, it will be a pleasure to step in and push back hard whenever you see anyone doing any of them.

[Doodley]

103. How does any of that justify your enthusiasm to use divisive language?

[NurseJackie]

105. Oh, good lord! Stop it.

Try listening for a change.

[EffieBlack]

106. I take that to mean you're not going to help black DUers shut down everything we find offensive?

Your hypocrisy and embrace of your white privilege is noted.

Thank you.

[catrose]

115. Effie, thanks for all you do

from a white person, trying not to be wypipo

[grantcart]

104. Great poll Effie

Waiting for some one to call the poll divisive.

[EffieBlack]

108. Already happened

Along with the insistence that because 1 in 10 people polled find the term offensive, it cannot be used on DU - since, after all, no one here does or says anything unless more than 90% of us agree with it.

[tblue37]

107. Call it a wypipoll. nt

[cynatnite]

111. This is probably a dumb question, but what is a POC? n/t

[EffieBlack]

113. Person/people of color

[cynatnite]

116. Thanks. n/t

[MichMan]

112. I find it a slur for a different reason

It ridicules and stereotypes the dialect and speech of black people

[EffieBlack]

114. Black people created it

Like “BayBay ‘nem” or “What had happened was” ...

We love to laugh at ourselves - a joke’s not a slur when WE created the joke.

[ProudLib72]

117. Why is Effie so divisive?

Why does everything have to be about race and racism?

Why do POC get to use offensive terms and I don't?

Why people?

BTW: I never did find out if that might be part of the etymology of the word, but I have my suspicions.

[EffieBlack]

119. Lol!

Yeah that’s it. Just tell everyone that’s what it means and maybe they’ll calm the hell down.

[LostOne4Ever]

121. Needs a I think it is stupid sounding but really couldn't care less either way option. nt

[Bucky]

126. Currently 58% think it's not offensive, 42% say offensive to some degree

But even if those thinking it might be offensive was just half of that 42%, civil decency tells us we should refrain from insulting any minority of people.

[EffieBlack]

132. Nice try, but not quite

59% said it's not offensive at all.

31% say they don't find it offensive but can understand why someone else MIGHT find it offensive.

Only 11% say that they personally find it offensive

FYi, I didn't post this poll to determine whether people should be allowed to say something or not. I was just curious how the opinions broke down.

But if you think that "we should refrain from insulting any minority of people" on DU, you can start by making sure that your fellow DUers stop insulting minority DUers by calling us race-baiters, insisting that we are "being divisive" whenever we talk about race, lecturing us about how we are overreacting when we object to obviously racist behavior, justify the arrests and murders of innocent unarmed black men with such stupid defenses as "the police had no other choice," claiming that "wypipo" is the equivalent of "nigger,"insulting civil rights icons as "clueless" and "sellouts" because they don't think certain independent politicians single-handedly invented civil rights and aren't forever grateful that he was arrested in a protest 50 years ago, and generally stop with the whitesplaining that has pretty much gotten on our last nerve.

Or, you can just recognize that people who constantly lecture minorities about not being so sensitive need to take their own advice, stop assuming everything that makes them uncomfortable isn't a personal attack and stop acting like a simple, harmless word is the first step toward sending them off to a concentration camp.

[Bucky]

174. I still don't see what we gain by using a term that offends some people

What is the utility of the phrase wypipo? How does using it benefit the interest of opposing racial oppression? And if people are insulted by it, if it's divisive in this online community, how do you justify saying it is harmless?

As you point out, 31% say it's offensive to some people, but just not to themselves. And 11% said it's offensive to them. That would be 42% saying it is offensive to some degree. I wasn't "trying" anything; I was just pointing out that a significant number of people understand it can be an insult.

The fact that it is controversial at all should tell you it's divisive to the community on DU. Not taunting people is, of course, just good manners.

If you want to call people out for bad behavior, by all means do so. I've done it many times on this website and I do so elsewhere on the internet... and in person. So I'm way ahead of you on your request that I tell people to stop the belittling of the political grievances of persons of color. We have a DU process for it by reporting rules violations to the moderators and I think it's been a pretty effective system.

I cannot explain to you why some people lack the historical awareness to see that wypipo isn't even close to being the equivalent of the n-word. I'm known for giving contextualizing historical lessons (I'm a history teacher) on the spot online and in-person and I would encourage you to do the same when you see people making this error.

I'll give you an example of me throwing education at someone. Yesterday online a friend (a libertarian lawyer) was trying to rationalize Trump's horrible comments insulting all Latino immigrants by saying the "context of his comments were about the MS-13 gang". But I was having none of that, I pointed out, because Trump has a history, a context, of sweeping hateful generalizations about immigrants and Latinos. It's disgusting and racist to jump from discussing gang members to talking about immigrants in general. I told him he's been a Texan long enough to recognize a dog whistle when he hears it. And sweeping generalizations are categorically hurtful and unethical. I called my friend out and after few go rounds he conceded that Trump left the door open for racist interpretations.

In that same spirit, I am respectfully requesting that you not ascribe to white people in general (with the slur 'wypipo') the bad behaviors of whatever group of people you're intending to denounce. Let's leave the race-based insulting to the experts.

[Bucky]

129. All this grief could be avoided, BTW, if you'd all start saying "people of white"

But in the meantime, I applaud the cleverness and innovation of all of you who are trying to rationalize using an intentionally mocking term referring to someone's race as socially appropriate.

Of course we can laugh at the silliness of it, because there is not the historical force of racism or oppression or segregation violently backing up the racially coquettish nickname. But if a lot of people feel offended by the attempt to denigrate them or their race, I can't justify the attempt to gin up any social resentment.

I'm not sure what using the term wypipo is even trying to accomplish, but it seems inherently pointed in a non-helpful direction. Can someone tell me why we need this term?

[Glamrock]

131. I've stayed out of this shit argument since it began.

I'm a white male. I'm top of the social food chain. I give a shit. Call me wypipo, white bread, greymeat, cracker, or honky. Ain't never gonna affect me in the slightest. I still get the best access to everything society has to offer.

That's not me being an arrogant asshole, that's me being honest about my priveledge. That's all. Please don't misread that. What I'm saying is no verbal abuse is going to change said priveledge. That's just the shitty way the world is now.

My issue with wypipo is that it is going to perpetuate the stereotype that black people are ignorant. I can already hear it..."dumb motherfuckers can't even spell." "Fucking Ebonics." "Can't even speak English." I don't think it serves the purpose that's intended. I think it perpetuates a horrible stereotype. But hey man, do whatever. Don't bother me in any way except trying to explain when it inevitably comes up with people who've met 1 black dude 1 time. Dig?

And like a casino dealer (showing hands) I'm out.

[EffieBlack]

134. Anyone who thinks that "wypipo" proves that black people are "dumb motherfuckers who can't spell"

already think that - and worse - about us and will continue to think that whether or not they'd ever heard the word "wypipo."

[Glamrock]

141. True that. No argument here.

And forgive my priveledge, but as a long haired guy, I bust my ass, at least in professional society, to prove I'm not a dumb, lazy, pothead... Like I said,could give a shit one way or the other,but as an ally on the other side, that's what I see. Carry on.

[Bok_Tukalo]

133. Why didn't you make this poll anonymous?

I doubt your sincerity.

[EffieBlack]

135. The poll's not anonymous. Click on "usernames" and you can see how everyone voted

Not sure what this has to do with my "sincerity," but if you're going to be a smartass, at least make sure you've got your facts straight.

[Bok_Tukalo]

136. I do. Why did you make this poll public?

You are not an honest person.

[Tarc]

138. If you're ashamed with how you voted, then its possible that you're part of the problem

[Bok_Tukalo]

139. That's shaming.

Either you want an honest response or you don’t.

[Tarc]

142. I want to see people as they are, and not the airs that they put on

[Bok_Tukalo]

143. Then you do not make the polls public.

If you want honesty.

[Ptah]

145. There is no option to make DU polls anonymous.

[greyl]

149. True now, but there used to be.

[EffieBlack]

151. Apparently, folk have run out of things to bitch about so now they're whining because

I didn’t employ a feature that DU no longer offers.

Whatever.

[greyl]

154. 20 recs, 2955 views. nt

[Tarc]

158. I really don't think you know what you're talking about

Good day.

[uppityperson]

191. There is no way to make a poll on du anonymous. That function doesn't exist.

[Tarc]

137. The people that are the most upset by this term

are the ones most in need of self-reflection on race issues.

"I'm not racist!" is great, but you don't get a gold star sticker for what should be the default human condition. Do more.

(copied from another thread)

[GeorgeHayduke]

144. Fuck this poll.

Who cares about the baited "whypipo" or similar?

It's bait and it's devisive.

I'm white and I'm neither offended by being called pinche gringo or cracker mothafucka', nor do I acknowledge other people being any different than me


That shits on you, just like this bullshit. "Whypipo" is your shit. Your personal stuff.

If you adhere to a particular ethnicity and particular colloquial vernacular, dont expect all your potential allies to adhere exclusively to the same. And dont admosish them if their experience, while parallel to yours, may not also be congruent.

"Whypipo" is as devisive as Trump and his cronies. It's nothing more than preaching to the choir and rallying the submissive with weak opinions to devise and perpetuate a conflict.

To many of us white people, you thrusting upon us your juvenile and pretentious and self-supporting "were-so-oppressed" "whipepo" bullshit is such a slap in the face of progressive whites who have selflessly worked for generations to ameliorate such subordination and manage the generatinal shame many of us have collectively burdoned ourselves with as teachers, managers, supporters, etc, is offensive. Yet, atmittedly, I'm unsure of your personal experiences.

Sure, your truth is yours - likely a shitty truth, but be real. We're not your opposition; we're your ammunition


So the next time I hear you go on a tirade about how white people are not your allies I'm really going to go off on you.

Relax with the race-bait. We're all friends here.

[EffieBlack]

147. "a slap in the face of progressive whites who have selflessly worked for generations"

Oh, I am SO sorry, Mr. White Man (I assume it’s not race-bait” or Trump-like divisive to refer to you as “white” since you so identified yourself in your little tirade) - I didn’t realize that I or any other black person owed you a debt of gratitude, a lifetime of appreciation and consistent efforts to tiptoe around your delicate sensibilities so you don’t feel like we “slapped you in the face” with our ingratitude for your generations of selfless work on our behalf.

Here, I thought you did all of that because that’s what decent, progressives who love their country and the people in it are SUPPOSED to do. I wasn’t aware that you were expecting my undying appreciation for your great sacrifice.

I will be much more mindful in the future of the great debt you think I owe you. Of course, it won’t change anything I say or do because, as far as I’m concerned, I don’t owe you jack squat. But I certainly will take into account your obnoxious, self-entitled assurance of your right to assert some twisted sense of privilege over those of us you have deemed too “juvenile and pretentious” for you to respect our “shitty truth.”

Thank you, my “friend,” for showing your true colors - and for providing a dead-on illustration of exactly what “Wypipo” means .

[GeorgeHayduke]

155. Sorry to not have apoligized

Enough for you.

You're an inflaimer. I've read your bullshit devisive posts for weeks.

Yeah, the more rational of us might cow-tow to you in the face of a multitude of legit racially disparate inconsistencies, but the disequilibrium you're attempting to monopolize upon is just as much political as it is racial.

Chill and solve the problem rather than causing the need to find a solution to yet one more problem.

[moriah]

167. If you don't want to read them, put them on ignore.

Then you can be happy.

Because, ya know what? I'm not offended a damn bit by The Root having a "White Tears" in their Annual Wypipo Awards. The 2016 award vwinner was Abigail Fisher:

No one exemplifies white tears more than the woman with mediocre grades and below-average test scores, so blinded by her entitled privilege that she took the University of Texas System all the way to the Supreme Court. When the highest court in the country heard her legal argument that minorities benefiting from affirmative action took her spot, they took one look at her transcripts and suggested that she use them to dry her eyes and enroll in a community college.

We salute you, Ms. Fisher, and offer you this goal trophy to collect your tears.

Your post about feeling slapped in the face is also, to this white chick, white tears. "OMG! I worked so hard personally for equality, but it hasn't happened yet and all these people are angry about it, and so they talk themselves vs letting me talk for them! So ungrateful! Such a slap in the face!"

Effie didn't take your guilt trip ticket, nor should she.

[GeorgeHayduke]

175. You miss the point completely.

It's neither black nor white nor poverty or privelege. Our cultural expectations of each other must be observed via a larger perpective than the minimalist "whypepo" insult. Let that bullshit go.

You don't often hear anyone paradoxically "axe" you a question. It's not a judgement, it's a simple observation. However, when our differences are employed as devisive weapons in incongruent means to progressive purposes without acknowledging the fact that the unrepentant use of something like "whypepo" has no utility other than to establish a "poor me" complaint we lose our unification. It's bait.

Be assured, I am not an ignorant man. I am also not employed in the endeavor of making friends. I'll indeed reciprocally stir an unjustly stirred pot, which this topic clearly is.

The chronically repeating theme of the "whypepo" movement disregards the expectation of each of us; we tolerant liberal Democrats, to recieve and understand our culural differences and, in that toletance, be able to regulate our own message. Are we white? No. Are we black? No. Do we want progressive change? Yes.

So let's get over our personal shit and work together.

Sorry if I had to piss a few people off. Im generally known as an insensitive motherfucker.

Be black. Be white. Who cares? We have a purpose beyond our petty personal feelings. Get to it. Vote.

[moriah]

182. You do realize the pronunciation "Why, People?" isn't unintentional or meant to be...

... suggestive of Ebonics but more a pun from it on specific actions BY white people?

As in, why, white person, are you doing stereotypical white things that should embarrass every one of you?

I'm horribly embarrassed, as a white person, by every winner in the 2016 category (well, I probably never will get the Taylor Swift/Kanye stuff but I also never paid attention).

https://www.theroot.com/the-2016-wypipo-awards-1790858299

Does it affect me at all that there's been a name codified for people of my skin color doing such appalling crap by the community affected by people who look like me oppressing them for centuries? Not one darn bit.

You think it's to establish a "poor me" complaint? FFS, if anyone is saying "poor me" in this it's the white people who feel "slapped in the face" that an oppressed community comes up with an ironic double-meaning nickname for people who give their oppressor's race the reputation it has!

Who feel associated with any true "wypipo" just because they happen to share the same skin color, so associated they feel attacked. Personally attacked.

I feel it's a slap in the face to mothers to suggest childbirth should be forced rather than a choice. That it shows forced birthers don't really value the sacrifices involved in even an uncomplicated pregnancy, let alone the risk of things going wrong and parenting. Particularly because my older sister nearly lost our mother during my birth, I'm aware of the sacrifices that go with pregnancy and childbirth.

I can't equate that kind of sacrifice with the "sacrifices" made by anyone non-white under 50 in the name of fighting racism unless they've been involved in the recent Black Lives Matter protests -- I don't know how old you are, but I'm under that and it's a reasonable cutoff for when white people certainly weren't risking arrests with beatings during activism regarding race. One could even raise it higher, but it's just a figure I can state with certainty to be true and if I'm going to pull numbers outta my ass I try to err on the side of caution. And while protesting now isn't without risk, it's better than it was.

There was a generation who did fight, who did risk arrest, that I don't want to forget, but it wasn't most of us. And you'd think if you were one of the fighters, you'd realize getting all offended is... well, kinda demonstrating the point that we all do have to work on some issues.

Both black and white people were affected by the disease and evil of slavery. One thing we, as white people, have to be able to do is let go of residual guilt for the past, because it's useless, while still acknowledging just how bad things really were. And how entitled some people still act. Without attaching that to ourselves even though we look like them, to instead focus on our our actions, except to look at ours occasionally to make sure we aren't being "Why, People?" instead of people.

[GeorgeHayduke]

184. Read my original post.

And my responses. Please. Consume the meaning of every word. With precision decide the meaning without having a priori cast my complaint asunder. Mine is not an uneducated or ill-reasoned logic, though it does belong in the unpopular category for the sensitive.

Or, let me distill it for you thusly: put us all in a room and turn the lights off. We're all the same color but we can all still lament the whiners.

Be an apologist if you like. In my personal sphere people who apologize unnecessarily are to be as trusted as much as people who complain.

Again, this is simply an observation and decidedly not a judgement. I appreciate your tome of a response, despite it was inflated with filler semantics that wholly distracted your narrative from evolving to a more erudite understanding of a larger issue.

It's not about race. It's about productivity and the lack thereof and, most importantly, shooting ourselves in the fucking foot.

I think you are likely person who esteems to be better than just a good person, and I salute you for that. But the world is a wicked place and the universe doles-out a cruel and unrelenting injustice. In our search for a glimmer of hope of reaching a semblance of justice, lets all remember we can only control a very few things.

Pointing at tge things we cannot control is to name them. Crying about them is regressive, pointless and recursively counterproductive.

[greyl]

156. "We're not your opposition; we're your ammunition."

[Empowerer]

157. If it's "bait," you sure gobbled it up

Not only did you bite, you’re practically frothing at the mouth.

Methinks thou doth protest so much, ‘tis a wonder thou did not pee thee pants.

[GeorgeHayduke]

185. Do you mean

"thy pantalones"?

I possess 5 degrees including 2 Ph.D.s, (admittedly one of which I am ABD, butI did the work, so who cares?)

My ex, whom I discarded for poor behavior, earned her MS at Kings London and her doctorate in medieval poetry from Oxford. I dont need to elucidate the rest.

I have no real investment in revealing my pedigree, but fuck you. I at least have one.

Effie's colloquial bullshit is of such rediculously innane vomit that someone with at least an image of a backbone should flat-out call bullshit.

You're a sucker otherwise.

Get a genuine, critical thought.

Bullshit.

[EffieBlack]

187. No. I said what I mean

It's unfortunate that somewhere along the line when you were acquiring all of those degrees you feel no investment in mentioning but feel the need to mention anyway, you didn't also pick up some courses in anger management as you are clearly so eagerly triggered by an intelligent, articulate black woman who sees through and calls out your foolishness, that you're unable to respond with anything more pointed than a hodgebdge of incoherent, foul-mouthed babbling.

[GeorgeHayduke]

190. The truly unfortunate thing

is the phenomenon of the "internet post" and the "flame war". Mostly, our self-centric propensity to make it all about us.

For some reason you believe I'm angry, but the truth is that in general I could care less. I spoke-up simply because this cause is so completely juvenile that a clarification is in order. I'd been rolling my eyes about it for weeks.

I really dont care, nor do I recognize racial tension largely because I'm not tense about it.

You're ranting about shit that doesnt need to exist. See my earler post about finding a solution to a problem that shouldn't need to be fixed in the first place.

If you dig deeper, the problem isn't solely race or gender or guns: those are the easy things to see; the lazy things to adopt as simple solutions and talking-points.

The underlying issue is control. And we all want it. And it's messy.

The solution revolves around how we negotiate its distribution.

But, that's why we make it all about us.

The truth is that there IS NO SOLUTION.

[SixString]

173. .

[vercetti2021]

146. I'm a vampire

It's ok, no offense here

[TheRealNorth]

152. Wypipo? Scott Walker says....

..Keep up the good work.

[samir.g]

153. Wypipo snowflakes are offended

[oberliner]

159. It's like with those cartoons

[oberliner]

160. 30+ of the responses to this post are from you

Not exactly following the "just reading the room" and "avoid unnecessary commentary" admonition.

Sometimes it's best to simply listen to others.

That is often the best way to learn new things - who knows, maybe even some personal reflection?

[EffieBlack]

161. Aww, now you're counting my responses.

It's great to listen to others. It's also good to respond to them when they address me and ask me questions. You know, like I answered yours in another thread but you still haven't answered mine. Why's that. Do I scare you, honey?

But the best thing about weighing in to my own thread is that it gives you more opportunities to follow me around and read and comment on what I have to say, clearly one of your favorite hobbies on DU.

One of things I love about you is obtuse lack of self-awareness of how beautifully you personify everything you claim to have issues with me about. For example, you claim that this thread is completely unnecessary ("How many threads do we need on this nonsense?&quot , but you've jumped in four times (so far) to offer your opinion that "it's best to simply listen to others" and to urge "self-reflection."

I finally figured out that you are just looking for excuses to engage with me and really don't care how ridiculous you look. I'm flattered, boo. You're a straight up hoot!

[sheshe2]

170. ...

[SMC22307]

162. Offensive? No. Idiotic and counter-productive? Yes.

Throughout history groups have had unfortunate names for one another (not sure I'm spelling all of these right): wops, dagos, spics, kikes, micks, chinks, polacks, beaners, wetbacks, niggers, Sambos, etc. It wasn't right then, and it's not right now. But if it makes you and Black Twitter feel better in your not-so-sly attempts to diminish white people, knock yourselves out. Whites will still have privilege. Whites will still control the vast majority of the nation's wealth. Whites will still gentrify POC neighborhoods. Whites will still have better schools. Someone named "Megan" will more likely get the interview than someone named "Taikwoneisha." Et cetera. It seems to me that if one wants to improve race relations and the lives of POC, childish name-calling isn't the way to bring people on board. That is the goal, isn't it? Or is it just to slam whites all over social media? Nyuk-nyuk.

[sheshe2]

168. And how many of those groups you,'named' ...

Throughout history groups have had unfortunate names for one another (not sure I'm spelling all of these right): wops, dagos, spics, kikes, micks, chinks, polacks, beaners, wetbacks, niggers, Sambos, etc. It wasn't right then, and it's not right now. But if it makes you and Black Twitter feel better in your not-so-sly attempts to diminish white people, knock yourselves out.

And how many of those groups you,'named' were enslaved? How many were kidnapped from their homes and shipped here under the most inhumane conditions? How many were bought and sold, families divided, cruelly beaten, some to death. Slavery did not end with the emancipation proclamation. It was not end until the start of WWI that slavery ended...and just a new slavery began. Those words are all uncalled for, yet you have totally missed why Wypipo exists and it is not about the words you posted. Not the same at all.

It seems to me that if one wants to improve race relations and the lives of POC, childish name-calling isn't the way to bring people on board. That is the goal, isn't it? Or is it just to slam whites all over social media? Nyuk-nyuk.

Well it seems to me that you do not care one witt about improving race relations, 'cause here you are white 'splainin and lecturing and wagging your finger ...then you call them out for "childish name-calling when you are here calling THEM names and END WITH A CHILDISH "Nyuk-nyuk."

[NurseJackie]

176. Looks like you've totally got that user's number!

...then you call them out for "childish name-calling when you are here calling THEM names and END WITH A CHILDISH "Nyuk-nyuk."

Looks like you've totally got that user's number! The motivation and intent are clear. I thank you for drawing attention to it.

[sheshe2]

177. You are welcome, NurseJackie

[gollygee]

171. People should really do a search of this word on Twitter

They seem to think this word is a lot of stuff it isn't, and just generally don't seem to get it. It's such a weird response. I don't know if people would feel differently if they saw how it's used, or if they'd be just as upset. Twitter has a limit on characters, so it makes sense (even if the word wasn't humorous) that there would be a short way of saying, "white people who frustrate me by doing racist things, often without realizing how biased they are."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

172. Other--I'm not offended by it, but it seems counterproductive

It’s not the same as n***. No one was ever whipped or lynched or had firehoses shot at them while being called “wypipo”. So I don’t find it an offensive slur.

At the same time, I don’t know what the point is inventing a brand new racial term now. It just seems sort of pointless and backwards if you ask me.

And to be honest, the whole rationale I heard behind it—that there are white people and then there are wypipo—sounds eeirly familiar to how I’ve heard people attempt to defend n***. So that just doesn’t sit all that right with me.

But perhaps I think it’s destined to be one of those weird terms that seems to exist more on the internet than in real life—like “antifa” or “cis”—so really the worst it will ever do is make my eyes instinctively roll.

[G_j]

179. Other,

It’s just not helpful or constructive.

[nolabels]

180. I think its all part of the same game white men invented to subjugate people

Playing games with people appearances is mostly a counterproductive social behavior

On edit: Kind of thought this was interesting enough to post twice

[EffieBlack]

183. Yes

It's a long-established pattern. The white majority has, for centuries, put into place mechanisms and practices that ensure the maintenance of white superiority over blacks and other minorities. When blacks complain, we're told that we are mistaken, being overly-sensitive, "race-baiting," etc.

And then, when we employ our own mechanisms designed, not to subjugate whites but to push back or defend or to remedy or sometimes just get comic relief from the continuing onslaught, that effort is not just stomped on, but it is turned around on us as some of the white majority pretends suddenly to be victims of US and their own bad behavior is "downgraded" to the level of and treated as the equivalent of the harmless pushback (or vice versa - the small remedy is elevated to the level of the brutal and egregious behavior we're pushing back against).

We see it everywhere. For example, that's how the conservative courts have managed to turn the 14th Amendment on its head where it is now used to invalidate the civil rights remedies and as a shield protecting the very behavior it was enacted to defend against - now civil rights remedies designed to overcome discrimination and segregation are "reverse discrimination" that is scrutinized much more harshly by the courts than the actual discrimination they're intended to overcome. White men and women are now victims of civil rights remedies while blacks and other minorities are treated as unworthy beneficiaries of wrongful "preferences.""

People who understand these dynamics - black and brown folk and a whole lot of woke white folk - see right through this little game. But it doesn't make it any less pervasive or sickening.

[nolabels]

186. Well there was that royal wedding this week

Another old vestige of the feudal system the uber would like us to go back to. The idea of the server and the serviced goes back farther than our ability to form language. Every culture does it to one degree or another. The issue I see is that it has become this pattern perfected for the uber to get whatever they want from the police state we live in. It's only sickening to me to see people believe it's the outcome that is inevitable. The way it ends is when people, in general, see that it doesn't serve them. When people stop watching the shadows on the wall and see the way things really are, then change will come.

The idea of sticking to beliefs is always more comforting (especially to us wipipo) than the knowledge it would be better if we just changed our ways. It's a stupid belief system that pits persons against persons in an attempt to exact a reward. When all along cooperation between the two parties would always be more fruitful in the long run. It's a system of the marauders that goes back to the copper age and the only thing that's changed since then is how they describe the players

[Hoyt]

181. I was fine with "Honky," it made a point. Same with "Wypipo."