THIS is why we kneel:

[EffieBlack]

Link to tweet

[asiliveandbreathe]

1. I wish you could send this tweet to chuck todd - he had 3 panelists who

not once, mentioned the reason "why we kneel" - not once..and Michael Steele was on the panel..I was yelling at the tv for One of them, just one of them to address the real reason..I support the NFL because I support the players..I don't give a damn about the owners...

The players will have their say..I am convinced..this is not going to stand..

Tks EffieBlack

[kozar]

9. As I understand the "rule"

Players can protest by staying in locker room during the playing of National Anthem. My over/under is week 3 when 1st game with no players on sideline during Anthem, takes place.
Koz

[asiliveandbreathe]

11. I am not as sure as you - I understand that is part of the rule - stay behind in the

locker room...I am as sure as I can be, my gut instinct, this will not get off the ground..players union, first amendment - if the players agree with this rule, that is one thing - I just don't see it happening..

My last over/under bet, I won..with the under..(points in last Jets/Pats game Dec 2017..) I'm not sure for the first pre-season game..or showing up for practice...now that would be a treat!!!

The owners don't give a damn about the 1st amendment rights of the players - the players should just NOT show up..

[kozar]

20. now NOT showing up is an avenue that I have not thought of.

nicely put.
I'll take the over and we bet for a cyber beer together. edited for the simple fact of a reason to have a beer
Koz

[erronis]

55. I'm not an athlete, just an aging white guy who hates arbitrary and stupid authority.

In the non-reality world of sports, what would happen if I turned my back to the flag instead of kneeling? To me that is even more anti-flag than taking a knee.

What would happen if I decided I needed a good crotch scratch during the POA (piece-of-anachronism)?

These autocrats, business-interests think they solve one problem with a tiny little band-aid but they open up a whole lot more venues for creative protest.

Maybe the national guard should be stationed along the sidelines to make sure everyone raises their arms at exactly the correct angle.

[asiliveandbreathe]

56. Then you know, as you say, you've been around some, it is a first amendment right..and

yes, the NFL has, again, lost sight of the whole intent..injustice of a minority group by law enforcement -

SCOTUS decided in 1969 - "burning" the flag is a first amendment right - (I am not advocating this at all) - a misdemeanor would apply for starting a fire...

Talk about starting a fire...hummmmm

[Uncle Joe]

2. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread EffieBlack

[malaise]

3. This too

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/05/23/live-video-sterling-brown-video-arrest-news-conference/638503002/

[Kurt V.]

12. here is the statement by Sterling Brown. It's powerful.

My experience in January with the Milwaukee Police Department was wrong and shouldn’t happen to anybody. What should have been a simple parking ticket turned into an attempt at police intimidation, followed by the unlawful use of physical force, including being handcuffed and tased, and then unlawfully booked. This experience with the Milwaukee Police Department has forced me to stand up and tell my story so that I can help prevent these injustices from happening in the future.
Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. … The common denominator in all of these situations has been racism towards the minority community, the abuse of power, and the lack of accountability for officers involved. The lack of repercussions for the police officers involved in so many of these cases is offensive. This is a slap in the face to the victims’ families and communities.
Black men shouldn’t have to have their guard up and instantly be on the defensive when seeing a police officer, but it’s our reality and a real problem. There must be mutual respect and both sides have to figure out how to accomplish this.

[malaise]

13. Excellent

Why wasn't he just given a ticket - what is wrong with these racist morons?

[Amaryllis]

14. What's wrong with them is they are racists. And morons.

[MythosMaster]

31. White Power

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a55695/white-supremacist-law-enforcement/

The media fails us on so many levels.

[Grins]

34. I disagree.

...with his last sentence: "both sides have to figure out how to accomplish this."

No. "Both sides" don't.

[gollygee]

4. K&R

Look how young one of them is.

[yonder]

5. powerful

thanks

[Gothmog]

6. K&R

[brer cat]

7. *This*

K&R

[Heartstrings]

8. "THIS is why we kneel" most importantly, and a lot of this as well...the ignorance abounds....

[BumRushDaShow]

16. Now THAT is a truism!

[tblue37]

44. I am so stealing this! nt

[smirkymonkey]

62. +1000

Truer words never spoken. It sickening. This entire country is beginning to sicken me.

[jackcrow2001]

10. Empty Gestures

Compulsory patriotism/Mandatory respect...……...That's paying a professional escort and calling it a relationship. Could it possibly be more meaningless and pathetic. I just wish any of the Trump worshipping cretins had half the courage of belief that Kaepernick and Reid have shown..... And I'll stack my 21yrs of military service against any MAGA hat wearing emptyheaded, empty hearted, hate and fear filled...….. auuuugh!

Later Days

[radical noodle]

19. Welcome to DU!

[lunasun]

23. Sick and yes empty isn't it ?

Welcome

[EffieBlack]

36. You're right

Welcome to DU.

[Heartstrings]

48. Welcome to du, jackcrow2001!

[Wounded Bear]

15. I've never fogotten why they kneel...

It is, literally, why I served many years ago, to give people the freedom to express their protests of injustice.

The NFL is run by a bunch of snowflakes. The players are being coerced.

[kag]

26. Yes! Thank you, Wounded Bear.

The NFL owners just caved to a bunch of pompous, empty politicians who wouldn't know the first amendment if it bit them in the ass.

I thank you for serving, and for knowing why you did so.

[Marcuse]

17. How much better off would the country be if

the president knelt in silent protest of a justice system he believes to be unfair rather than throwing a tantrum.

[EffieBlack]

18. Or maybe he could just stay his ass in the locker room

[sheshe2]

21. I would prefer that he stay in a locked room.

Preferably one with bars or padding.

[EffieBlack]

35. Lol

[sheshe2]

38. ...

[sheshe2]

22. K&R

[ismnotwasm]

24. K&R

[FSogol]

25. K & R. n/t

[NCTraveler]

27. Great fucking op.

[ehrnst]

28. K&R

[stevil]

29. Damn

That's all.

[spicysista]

30. If most pictures are worth a thousand words....

This one is worth millions, EffieBlack.

[R B Garr]

32. K&R

[yallerdawg]

33. Protest only gets attention when it's inconvenient.

Good job, player owners.

[EffieBlack]

40. Exactly

Even many of "allies" lecture us not to protest in certain ways because "it turns people off" and, of course is "divisive.""

Well, duh.

[tblue37]

45. Which is exactly what happened to the civil rights protesters in the 20th century--they

were told to sit down and quiet down, that they were being "agitators" and that their protests would only rile up white people and the government against them.

Someone has to be brave enough to stand up and say NO. I believe that eventually Colin Kaepernick will be honored, just as MLK is, for his bravery in the face of pervasive, systemic racism, but when that happens, I bet his criticism of the system will be domesticated and defanged, as MLK's has been, so that it sounds like a feel-good "Can't we all just get along" sentiment more suitable to a Hallmark card, a sentiment that won't cause white people and the powers that be to feel any sort of discomfort.

Kaepernick will one day be recognized as the Rosa Parks of our time.

[EffieBlack]

46. I just wrote something similar in another thread

You are exactly right.

[tblue37]

47. May I have a link to that post? nt

[EffieBlack]

52. Here you go:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10652241

[tblue37]

59. Thanks. nt

[grumpyduck]

51. Yes, but what I see happening

is that Colin's original message (protesting against police brutality towards POC) is getting buried in all this talk of patriotism and disrespect for the flag, the military, or the anthem.

FWIW, I think his method of protest was not a good choice, since it was so easy to misconstrue what he was doing, and especially if you didn't bother to read the news. And DJT certainly turned it into a political statement and got lots of people (conservatives?) pissed off. But that's water over the bridge.

I've had a few conversations where I've had to remind the other party what Colin was kneeling about, and I'll continue to do so whenever necessary.

[EffieBlack]

53. The method wasn't the problem - it was the message

And no matter what method he uses, people would have trashed him.

It's not protesters' responsibility to make their message palatable to the people they're protesting.

But come on, be real. If kneeling quietly and respectfully during the National Anthem is too provocative, ANYTHING they did would be too much. Because as I said, it's not the method. It's the message.

And, of course, the melanin.

[grumpyduck]

58. I agree with you, but

what I'm saying is that his original message was quickly turned into a different message. He wasn't protesting the flag or the anthem (according to the media), but that's what it was turned into: "We don't want to talk about police brutality towards POC, so let's turn this into something else."

I think that's where a lot of people (conservatives? ultra-righters? MAGAholics? just plain angry people?) got pissed off: "This guy is disrespecting my flag and my country. Trump says so, and that's good enough for me."

Given what I've seen, yes, I believe he would have been trashed anyway if he had chosen a different way of protesting police brutality, but I don't think it would have turned into such a megadrama about something different. I think it would have been seen as just another rich athlete sticking his nose where it didn't belong: outside the ball game.

And about rich athletes, here's my comment to rich politicians, especially those in Trumps' inner circle: Yeah, these guys make millions, but they have three things you don't have: one, they know their business; two, they work their butts off; and three, when they're doing what they do, there ain't no place to hide.

[EffieBlack]

61. ,what you're missing is that it doesn't matter how he protesting

The message was the problem and regardless how he protested, ,the people with an interest in shutting down the message would do everything they could to confuse the public. Whatever the players did and however they did it, Trump and his crowd would have exploited it just as they're doing now. Insisting that this wouldn't be happening if the players had just found a "better" way to protest suggests you've unwittingly bought into the narrative the other side wants you to believe. You're helping to fight their battle by blaming the protesters for "doing it wrong."

Dr. King grappled with this problem in the 1960s when well-meaning white liberals insisted, like many today, that his approach was ill-advised. He eloquently addressed those concerns in his "Letter from a Birmingham Jail."

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

[grumpyduck]

63. Whoa, hang on there! :)

I have definitely not "bought into the narrative the other side wants you to believe." I'm about as much "on this side" as anybody can be, and I'm beyond totally disgusted by what these... ummm... people are doing. And I don't see how expressing a personal opinion here in DU, in one thread, is "helping to fight their battle." As I said above, I've corrected a few people when they started talking about Colin disrespecting the flag or the anthem, and I will continue to do so.

Thank you for the link to Dr. King's letter. I'll check it out later tonight or tomorrow.

[EffieBlack]

67. I think you're definitely on the right side of the issue

But also think you don't realize you're playing into the wrong hands by blaming the players for going about this all wrong when they haven't done ANYTHING wrong. They're protesting in a very calm, rational way but craven people, led by the president, have attacked and twisted their protest and message. They would do that with ANYTHING the players did - but they want well-meaning people to shift the blame from the people who are exploiting and demagoguing the situation to the people doing the protesting.

What exactly do you think they should have done differently that would have: 1) attracted the national attention that kneeling during the National Anthem did; and 2) ensured they wouldn't be attacked by Trump?

[grumpyduck]

68. Again, I agree with you.

Last edited Fri May 25, 2018, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I didn't blame the players for "going about this all wrong." I simply expressed my opinion (a "FWIW" ) about the results: how a protest about one thing was turned into something else by, yes, "craven people led by the president." This is a chat room, after all.

There is a piece in today's HuffPost about this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-killed-378-black-americans-colin-kaepernick_us_5b070160e4b07c4ea10655be and I wish it could be posted on Fox News so that segment of the population could see it too. The new NFL rule is idiotic and just plays into obliterating the original message, but I think more people need to be hit in the face with what the original message was.

Thank you again for the link to Dr. King's letter. I had never read anything by him, so this was a great insight into his thought process. That letter still resonates today.

As far as your questions... what "should" they have done differently? Heiny-sight being 20/20+, I think doing the protest, however it was done, later in the game, or even right after the anthem, would have removed the opportunity to turn it into a debacle on disrespecting the flag. Yes they would still have gotten flamed, but they would have gotten flamed for protesting police brutality, not for something totally different. And all the resulting dialogue (so to speak) would have been about demonstrating against police brutality, not about the flag. To be clear: my problem with this whole thing is that the original message got distorted or lost.

Now, what could they have done to ensure they wouldn't be attacked by Trump? I don't have a clue. He has shown repeatedly that that's his MO, and he keeps doing it, setting one hell of an example ("It's okay to be a bully" ) for the kids in our nation.

[EffieBlack]

69. If they had done the protest after the anthem or during the game, no one would have noticed

They would have just been among a lot of other players standing, kneeling, sitting, walking around on the sidelines.

The point was to do it when everyone was watching to draw attention to the issue. Doing it when no one was watching in order to keep from getting flamed isn't a protest - and the message would have been totally lost.

The letter is amazing, isn't it. And considering he wrote this in secret while in jail just takes my breath away. Dr. King was a radical badass who scared white people to death when he was alive - and, sadly, has been whitewashed into a milquetoast heroic cartoon figure for the comfort of white people in his death.

[grumpyduck]

70. Okay, I think we've taken this

as far as it should go. Let's get a cup of coffee and continue to fight the fight.

[Nitram]

37. Don't stop kneeling!

[ProfessorGAC]

39. The New Rule Is Really Dumb

What the new rule is really saying (given they can stay in the locker room until after the stupid song is finished), is that it's ok to protest as long as people don't have to see it.

Which, of course, makes the protest toothless.

Cowardly move by the NFL hierarchy.

[EffieBlack]

41. It also says that you are free to express yourselves as long as you express the views that WE agree

with in the manner that we tell you to.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Yes, It Does Both

OK to protest as long as it's the way prescribed by others, and so conservative snowflakes don't have to see it.

I think putting them in the same sentence works nicely.

[tblue37]

43. BIG K&R! nt

[ailsagirl]

49. Thank you for posting this, EffieBlack

[denvine]

50. K & R!!!! Thanks for posting!

[betsuni]

54. K&R

[xeodtech]

57. Now all NFL players should take a knee or walk off the field.

White, Black, purple, Orange (well maybe not orange .. I really think that the NFL players who make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars need to stand by their principles and say FU if you are going to fine me then you can find someone else to play your football for you.. If they get it right the owners will bow to their will... Now they have to ask themselves, is the money worth it to be controlled by their owners? That sounds as bad as it is....

[Afromania]

60. Two years on and certain folks are still missing the point as to why we are kneeling

and they don' care to ask the question that they know the answer to. Our black brown existences are worth less to them than anything else in their lives including their entertainment. They talk this shit and continue to watch the NFL, they could give a rats ass about that flag as anything but an idol to feign worship at when it suits them.

[grumpyduck]

64. I just read the NFL statement.

It says players shall stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem. Or they can stay in the locker room.

I can understand the idea of "no politics at work," but Colin's original protest was not political or about politics. It was about an abuse of power by cops, an abuse that would be investigated by an Internal Affairs unit (if they bothered to do so), and which could result in disciplinary action or even criminal charges. Nothing political there (and yeah, I know, I know -- everything can become political). So, to me, this rule is nothing more than the NFL agreeing to fall for a distraction by Trump. Or to kiss his sorry ass.

Gawd, how I hate even writing that name.

[Owl]

65. Powerful.

[bluecollar2]

66. Kick and Rec...n/t