At what point can or should we divorce a creator from their works?

[sir pball]

Last edited Wed May 30, 2018, 10:20 PM - Edit history (2)

Is it possible to admit that a man is a disgusting POS yet still use or even enjoy their creations? To separate the creator from the product? When an artist or creator turns out to be a shithead but that prejudice is not inherent to their work should we dismiss?

ETA THIS IS NOT ABOUT ROSEANNE! It was actually spurred over a talk this evening about Batali, see below.

As a chef I have all of the Batali cookbooks. I won't be trashing them, since he already has my money; and I sure as hell won't stop using them because his recipes are simply really good, possibly the best.

I still like a ton of Miramax movies, Weinstein aside.

Richard Wagner was a disgusting human being and arguably a progenitor of Nazism, but I've been to very liberal weddings where they played him..

Oh, the next time the Met Opera does the Ring Cycle, IDGAF if he had a swastika tattoo and goose-stepped around the freakin room, I'm going. Art transcends human stupidity.

[Girard442]

1. A yardstick, although an imperfect one: does the POS get money if I enjoy the work?

You alluded to that in the OP.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. This is where I start and I've found it very helpful.

[sir pball]

8. I think that's a crucial point, yes

I'm not buying any more batali books for sure, and Wagner isn't getting royalties...I think my point was it's not always
an easy situation.

[bettyellen]

2. I think lots of talented people have been overlooked for hundreds of years while assholes profited

and handsomely, by the lack of competition and the ugly environment that both created them and gave them a pass for being cruel and bigoted. It’s a new era.

[mwooldri]

3. "I don't know" is the short answer.

But I do know this... The BBC won't play a Gary Glitter record. Jimmy Saville is edited out of all the "Top of the Pops" episodes he hosted. Rolf Harris doesn't have any repeat airings either. Paedophiles have no place on the BBC. Yet these people have created works that millions of people enjoyed. In the case of these three people it'll be many many years, and probably only in the context of history.

[EffieBlack]

4. When the title character of your work is based on you and as your first name, you're totally married

to it - especially when that’s pretty much the ONLY work you’ve produced in the last 30 years.

[Demsrule86]

5. If this is about Roseanne...than never...

The entire show is about being a Trump supporter IE a racist piece of shit. It is propaganda.

[sir pball]

6. It's not about Roseanne, no

She made her prejudice a part of her work. I should have been more clear.

When an artist or creator turns out to be a shithead but that prejudice is not inherent to their work should we dismiss?

[cemaphonic]

9. I'll draw the line at still-living artists that I wouldn't feel good about rewarding.

I love Polanski's movies, but haven't bought/watched/streamed any in the last 10 years or so. But his movies will live on long after he, his victim, and any personal harm he has caused is gone. And besides, there is just too much good art created by some fairly terrible people to throw it all out.

I do think it's kind of funny that Wagner is still controversial, but nobody seems to have a problem with Carl Orff.

[Leith]

10. It Probably Depends on How Much It Pains People

Very few people want to watch Bill Cosby. The wound is just too raw. Same with people like Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, and others, in varying degrees.

How many people refuse to see an Alfred Hitchcock movie because of how he destroyed Tippi Hedron's career? Probably not many any more.

Stephen Fry, Jewish on his mother's side, loves the music of Wagner, in spite of the composer's association with naziism. Why? He says it's because Wagner's music is bigger and better than Hitler imagined it to be.

It sucks to find out that the person whose art you admire is such a vile shit that you feel embarrassed to admire their work. But, to be honest, just about everyone can be a vile shit in one way or another (I sure can be). John Wayne was all for McCarthyism. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves (did Sally Hemmings really have a choice in fucking him for decades?). Joan Crawford was an abusive parent.

Go ahead and enjoy the art. You really aren't honoring the artist's dark side by doing so. You are simply appreciating the good that he or she created.

[Ilsa]

11. I survived all three acts of Die Walkre.

The director of the opera almost 30 years ago required the women playing the walkuries be at least 5'10" to have an imposing stage presence.

I know churches that will not play the Lohengrin song. I didn't use it at my wedding because I think it sucks, partly from familiarity.

I think it all depends on whether the music and lyrics promote the composer's prejudice or other immoral philosophy, and whether they are still alive to profit from it, or if their like-minded descendants profit from it.

[oberliner]

12. I think its tougher with actors than producers and directors

With an actor, you are watching that person and asked to care about the character they are playing. I think that makes it tough to watch performers like Bill Cosby and Woody Allen because when you see them you can't help but think of them as people. This doesn't really happen when you watch a movie directed by Polanski or produced by Weinstein. You don't have to look at them while you are watching the movie so it's a little easier to disassociate the work from the person.

[NCTraveler]

13. Not consuming and even enjoying work from such individuals is truly not a possibility...

In reality. One can try and one will always fail. Success in doing so would mean avoidance of such people is a full time job.

I try to conduct most of my business with good people. I look for talent in the arts. Sometimes those two conflict with each other. I’m ok with that.