General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWyp***
One thing I love about our big tent community is that we at least try to be respectful of how others feel about certain words or phrases being used.
It seems to me that a number of white people on DU have stated they are offended by the term wyp***.
The "on DU" part is important, because I consider members of DU to be my allies. I have no interest in intentionally hurting the feelings of my allies, so I will not and have not used the term. And yes, I know there's a number of white people who are not offended by it. Some members are more sensitive, and that's fine. I don't consider myself to be easily offended--for example, some people get upset when the citizens of their state are painted with a broad brush. Not me, I agree 100% when Georgia is mocked. However, I was born in NY so maybe it's not the same. Anyway, the point is, in general, I try to be respectful of others when they say something is offensive, particularly if it's something I've said that's offensive. I feel like I've received the same respect in return, for the most part. Mutual respect creates a "safe" space for us to vent about the issues that unite us.
Honestly, we have very important issues to discuss--and, yes, that includes race related issues. The rampant racism is out of control! I know we can discuss those issues in a non-divisive, non-alienating way. That's key. Of all the issues that can fracture our alliance, I don't want the debate on wyp*** to be one of them. ESPECIALLY with midterms right around the corner. I think there's a time and a place for everything, and I really don't believe that DU is the right place for that term. Twitter might be, since it's a free for all. It's a lot more impersonal. On Twitter, the "b" word flows freely as do a number of other words that do not fit in with the level of discourse on DU.
Flame away?
PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)Division for division's sake.
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Other than outraged self-appointed tone policers?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)marble falls
(57,080 posts)so upset over a word that didn't exist here on DU a month ago. The problem isn't the word, the problem is how much power the concept of the word has over wipipo.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,762 posts)By simply ignoring or refusing to make this an issue
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I'm sure it's so prevalent that a majority of posts revolving around it are from Russian trolls.
The things people will do to avoid personal discomfort.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Its stupid, and yes, meant to divide.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I wish some people would think before hitting post.
Guess it's easier to write racism off as Russian agitation.
applegrove
(118,642 posts)Sophia4
(3,515 posts)I strongly support the rights of all Americans, especially those who have for centuries been treated like second-class citizens including African-Americans.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)We're much more savvy than the folks who fell for that shit elsewhere.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)He should be getting more credit tbh.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Making fun of, and attacking each other.
It only benefits the GOP and Russian trolls.
Some have "bought into" it.
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)Someone brought the word out of a safe space for bigots and many are trying to turn DU into a safe space for bigots.
Thats all.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I wonder why that is?
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)from it, it's kind of clear that it is meant in a dehumanizing way. It's sort of like if I'm hanging with a bunch of guys and they refer to every woman as a "ho" or b**, it would make me feel uncomfortable even if they insist that they're not referring to me personally. It's just a respect thing. I think people are overthinking it. It's very simple. If you switch the situation and it would make you uncomfortable, then it's probably not the right thing to do in this setting.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)this started as a casual joke among black people speaking to other black people about some white people. Not all white people.
You don't understand the context, nor do most of the naysayers here.
I am one of the few people for whom words cannot hurt. I dont get outraged about much, and definitely not from words written by a person Ive never met. If I write a wypipo article every day, it still wont match the number of times Ive been called nigger in some form or fashion. I promise you, however, that I am not trying to catch up.
I think the phrase and all the variations of it are sidesplittingly funny (the formal Y. P. Pull, the hipster Why Pee Pole and the Southern Wipe E. Puh). I make an effort to point out that the word doesnt mean every single person of Caucasian descent. (Although, to be honest, it kinda does. Many of us people assume that all white people are wypipojust to be safe. In fact, if you are upset by the previous statement because you assumed the phrase wasnt referring to youyoure probably wypip0.)
I can understand why some people dont think its funny. Humor is subjective. What is stupid, however, are the people who say its racist because if they used a term for black people, theyd be called racist.
As if they dont understand the power dynamics in America. As if they are willfully ignorant of the 510 years of white supremacy whereby their people got to call black people whatever the hell they wanted. As if black people could give a damn what they are called when they are still treated like niggers. As if they dont know how racism works. How words work.
https://www.theroot.com/in-defense-of-wypipo-1797033553
gollygee
(22,336 posts)ecstatic
(32,701 posts)That's why I said in my OP, this is not the right place. I think I saw the first OP where the article you cited was referenced and the term was introduced. It was amusing to me at that point, but I think the thread ended up turning into a flame war. It required a lot of back and forth explanations, etc. So I think at that point, it should have been the end of it. Clearly, it didn't go over well. Most inside jokes don't. Maybe because DU is lily white, last I checked.
But even in another context, it's still silly to me. What's the point, other than to divide?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Those that oppress them. It is moral support between them in the face of oppression.
Not one of them cares about upsetting white people. The thing is, whites keep co-opting black culture, and have picked up on it's use. This is how it always goes.
Another important point: many white people are very hung up on proper racial terminology. Most black people don't care that much, as long as it is not the n-word, and some are not even upset by that. Words are only words, and not the larger racist system itself.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)and it won't include silly nicknames or terms. That I promise you. I'm not here for that. I'm still not seeing the point of using that term on DU specifically, especially with all the division it creates.
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)... but chooses to defiantly use it anyway. And he is in a safe space for bigots so he can do so.
I do not want DU to be a safe space for bigots.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)Always interesting when people become the things they fight so passionately against.
mythology
(9,527 posts)It literally says, "Although, to be honest, it kinda does." Which just proves the point that it is about being bigoted. The author is also one of those idiots who thinks all racism is structural racism. It's pretty clearly not. The definition of racism is being prejudiced, discriminatory or antagonistic to people from a different race. All he's doing is lying to himself to justify his own bigotry.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Structural racism is important. Racism without power is much less important, and this author is not racist because he has no power. He is reflecting observations from his life experience.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Even if you've concluded that the racism associated with the term doesn't count, you still can't dismiss the fact that it's also divisive, in addition to being rude and disrespectful. I'm only arguing for civility. That's it.
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)<OPE>
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)A common practice around here, it seems.
Although, I am open to the possibility that the bigots here who like to use racial epithets are lying to us about their bigotry and not just to themselves.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)Wow people don't get the concept of context.
We have social ladders in this society. We have a system where men are on top of one social ladder, and women are on the bottom of the social ladder. We also have a racial caste system where, generally, the lighter you are the higher on the caste system you are. It is very very different to hit up the ladder than it is to hit down the ladder. This is how comedy works, and "wypipo" is a comedic term. It's hitting up the social ladder, from people at the bottom of the racial caste system poking at people at the top of the racial caste system. Men talking about women like that, especially with the level of violence from men against women in this country, is a completely different thing. There's social power and that history of violence behind those words.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)about all the heartbreaking racist shit that's happening in this country. Not for one second. My biggest hope is that we can stop the more subtle institutional racism going on right now with trump and his judicial appointments. We can only do that if we win the midterms. This ridiculous new "funny" word won't exactly help us to do that.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and what they find funny or don't as they navigate racism in our society. People who are oppressed often do use humor to deal with their oppression. I'm fine with that.
And this word has nothing to do with any elections. People who wouldn't vote for us due to this word wouldn't vote for us anyway. The Republicans get the votes of people who are that invested in racism.
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Never has been. That is the problem. People who think it is "subtle" are likely White and have not been affected by it.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Caliman73
(11,736 posts)Same reason that any discussion of how people of color view or talk about their oppression or the people that oppress them is seen as divisive and impolite. Discussion of race, racism, privilege is not generally acceptable.
People can call Black people "niggers" for centuries with little consequence or Mexican people "beaners" and "wet backs" for decades, but Black people say Wypipo for a year and it is just as wrong?
Wypipo is not a word that I would ever use, especially directed at people, but I find the comparisons silly.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)I don't care who you are.
And when exactly did I compare the two? I've never done that. Your argument seems to be that two wrongs make a right. Which I find silly.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... thank you.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)Sailor65x1
(554 posts)You worded that so to.slip it past people's trash filters, yeah?
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)ecstatic
(32,701 posts)as people find it offensive.
marble falls
(57,080 posts)wypipo
Twitter slang or dialect that with read aloud sounds like "white people" which is its actual meaning
Girl wypipo are crazy, they let their dogs lick their mouths
by yomamahakim January 29, 2016
This is whats got you upset?
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)So why use it here if it's going to cause division and flame wars? Like what is the point of bringing it to DU, seriously?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)You don't like the word. I get it. But what/whom does it divide you from? Does the fact that a stranger writes the word on an anonymous discussion board in any way change your behavior or attitude or opinions? If so, how?
procon
(15,805 posts)Beyond the age old black and white tribalism, now we have 'good' whites and 'bad' whites. Not once has the primary issue been addressed, not racial equity or justice, just the excuses for repeating racial taunts. That is racism and it foments animosity and division.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)"It causes division" is not an acceptable definition for "division." What's divisive about it?
Exactly who does it divide YOU from? Does the fact that a stranger writes it on an anonymous discussion board affect you? Does it change the way you think or behave in any way? If so, how?
procon
(15,805 posts)make up a different interpretation of my words. You seem to be fixated on the rationalization that you're only a stranger on an anonymous discussion board (as are we all) and that entitles you to a free pass to say whatever you want without challenge. Not so. DU is a community for Democrats, and we all gather here because by and large we all share a common solidarity of mind and spirit that opposes things like race baiting and open hostility based on skin color.
Yes, using racial slurs -- pick a flavor -- does have an impact on me, as it should on everyonre because it's wrong and serves no other purpose than to create more discrimination and division rather than deal with the problem.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Just asking you to define a term that you regularly use but refuse to actually define.
procon
(15,805 posts)You don't really want another definition -- you've been offered plenty already -- so pick any subjective narrative that fits your agenda. Since you are determined to keep spreading this made up racist word that was created to sow dissent, maybe you can explain how that will change anything?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But if you have and I missed it, please do tell.
In the meantime, maybe YOU can explain why you think that black folk can only speak in ways that will "change anything?"
procon
(15,805 posts)If a positive change isn't goal, then there must be a negative purpose in continuing to use a race based jibe. Does that need any definition?
After days and days of efforts, since no one seems to be able the meet your shifting standards, why don't you just post a numbered list of suitable definitions that match your agenda.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)I'm just really really really really big on respect. We're a shaky alliance, but an alliance nonetheless. When we introduce crazy new nicknames to refer to an entire race of people, that's not respectful, IMO. Make a riff on the word "racist" or teabaggers or trumpites, but when a word that's used to mock people is literally raced based, that's not respectful. And to keep forcing the issue is rude.
Again, this site isn't like a general playground, it's pretty specific in it's mission. We're all supposed to be on similar pages as far as supporting the party platform, rights, etc. We're all supposed to be on the same team.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And who decides that those things are sacrosanct they can't be disrupted or distracted from?
marble falls
(57,080 posts)the worst of which, of course is being tagged with the epithet, wypipo. Its something we wypipo have had to deal with since around 2016.
I'm tired of having the cops called on wypipo trying to have a bbq in the park. Whoops wait a minute that wasn't us.....
I'm tired of having campus security called when wypipo fall asleep in the common rooms of our dormitory. Wasn't us either...
I'm tired of having managers of coffee shops calling cops when all wypipo want to do is wait more than literally more than two minutes for a business associate. Nope. Wasn't us.....
I'm tired of all the unarmed non violent wipipo who've been killed by cops. Ah ... by and largely not us.....
Whats your first emotion when someone says "Wypipo ......... !"? That's what's important here and not the word. Where's that anger/irritation coming from?
Caliman73
(11,736 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)I mean really, just stop bringing it up and you won't see it all the time.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Everyone else threw in their 2 cents. Here's mine.
Kilgore
(1,733 posts)I find the use of derogatory names FOR ANY RACE offensive. If you have to torture language or logic to make the use ok, then I suggest you check yourself.
I'm sure my comment will offend someone, so flame away, I could care less.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...it will earn you the label of wypipo. Thats one of the problems with any discussion around it. Disagreeing with its use gets you labeled with it. Making you, in the eyes of the accuser, a racist and bigot and therefore someone they would never agree with. Its stupid.
Kilgore
(1,733 posts)They can stick it in their ear.
I will not use labels, condone the use of lables, or make tortured excuses why they need to be used. My only exception is blood type, now thats a useful label.
procon
(15,805 posts)It isn't even like primal therapy where someone might scream out their frustrations or pain, not when a list of defensive excuses invariably accompany the posts of those who continue to use this racial put-down even after it's pointed out as being offensive. This is a deliberately disruptive tactic that insidiously spreads well beyond simple tribalism and DU should not be a part of tolerating racism in any form.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)We can only talk about race if we only talk about it in terms that no white person however sensitive gets the slightest bit upset.
Which means we can never have a real serious discussion about race.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Wypipo is just respelled white people with only negative connotations. Do that with blapipo, hispipo, asiapipo and youre looking at a serious backlash...rightfully so. You could try to say that those phrases wouldnt describe all {insert race here} people but I think we all know that wouldnt get traction. No defense of those terms would, or should, ever be made.
As a general rule, Im not a fan of race based insults. Simply for saying that, Ive been labeled wypipo on this very site. I can link it for you if you want. Its problematic on many fronts.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)We are having a conversation about people being upset by a word that doesn't apply to them. This is trivial beyond words.
To me that is white fragility, and also white privilege. We can't have a conversation until those that CHOOSE to be insulted, who are seeking offense, are mollified. Many racial conversations stop here. This one will, too.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)1. Use a race as an insult
2. Be exasperated that people of that race are insulted
3. Suggest that those people, whos race youre using as an insult, are responsible for prohibiting conversation
Amazing.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You are transparent. You ignore the evidence presented to you.
You choose to be insulted. Good for you.
I can't describe how little I care about it. The world is full of important things.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Is there any space for disagreement that is not fragility or whitesplaining? I just get this vibe that they are to nod and agree and thats it. How is the term essential to a serious discussion? The white people must prove they are not fragile by accepting this term. Say there are white people who accept it but then disagree on another thing. Black people are not all alike either. What of those black people who arent interested in the term or this rule about it?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)what kind of discussion is possible?
procon
(15,805 posts)No one has suggested that you should try to discuss anything with someone who holds racist views. There a probably few to none racists on DU, so who are your "targets" here?
nini
(16,672 posts)Good Lord.. we need to grow thicker skins and pick our battles.
The continuous outrage over this word on DU is only proving the point of why it was invented in the first place.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Wypipo is mild. Jeeez, get a grip Wypipo.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)racist. Christ.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)quakerboy
(13,920 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)It gives them a sense of superiority which lets them feel good about attacking folks who dont like the term.
It isnt going to change until they change and at this point they gets ltos of refs.
Yes there is racism but saying wypipo doesnt make things better. That is because we are talking about a term not racism.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)or a more ordinary type?
Doodley
(9,088 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)To believe that only white people are offended by a particular term is a form of racism in itself.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Just chatting on an Internet chat about racism.
But if you want, you can mark me down one letter grade for not providing a bibliography.
In any event. I'm not white and I wouldn't use any race based slur. Maybe I'm unique in the sea 7.4 billion people.
But if you want to discount my opinion. That's fine. I'm used to white people discounting how I feel.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)outside of DU. White, black, or whatever.
Are you black?
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)based upon heritage?
There's a word for that.
Anyway, it's not about me, and I don't have the energy to be a torch bearer on this. It's just something that I don't like and I'm puzzled why any progressive would embrace it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But then complain when someone asks you if you're black?
You can't have it both ways.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)This silly debate isn't about me.
It's about a racist term about race that some people like to pretend isn't racist because its just about race.
I mean it's not like there isn't 500+ posts of people wringing theirs hands about it, along with pseudo-intellectual posts asking why something that divides actually divides.
But since you are so interested. yes. And now you can proceed to dismiss my opinion.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)"Wypipo" is not about race per se, but how a SUBSET of white people BEHAVE. The word describes behavior, not race because clearly many whites don't behave this way. And those that define the term say so.
Therefore, "wypipo" can't be a racist term because it doesn't denigrate ALL white people based on race.
For "wypipo" to be a racist term, it would have to denigrate all white people.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)for a different group of people.
You know the word and the group.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Explain.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Gymnastics are clearly a strength
kwassa
(23,340 posts)as you have been throughout this thread. As have others.
To put it simply, you lost this argument. "Wypipo" is not a racist term, for that would require the term to apply to all white people, which it never has and clearly does not.
Debate that point. You can't. You lose.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)And I'm not debating I'm making a statement. I don't debate non-sense.
Go ahead and keep making your assertion. The world is watching.
take care.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Most people didn't find it offensive. Some didn't find it offensive but understood how other people could find it so. Two POC found it offensive.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I'm just not comfortable with race based insults. But if others are, well that's certainly NOT unique.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Thanks for pointing that out.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I know, for others, it's more of a preference than a principle.
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Some think they are superior to others. Sad to see it here. But it is the same folks again and again.
Response to ecstatic (Original post)
Post removed
Doodley
(9,088 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think it engenders discussion. Discussions that are not otherwise happening. A discussion which is uncomfortable to far too many people. It's easier to rationalize to ourselves that the word, rather than the discussion is uncomfortable.
In justifying it as such, we get to keep wearing our "I'm all for equality" t-shirt, pretend that's all that needs to be done, and conveniently deny ourselves the actual discussions in favor of the trendy pretense of persecution and offense. And that reeks of a necrotic privilege left out in the sun too long to me.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It's often used to describe ugliness rather than to lump all white people under one ugly label. I'll defend that.
I would only ask that anyone using the term do so with care, and if you're so inclined, a nod to #notall can help make the medicine go down.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It promotes a false narrative trying to be pushed by some for less than honest reasons.
Lots of good stuff in your post. Your use of asterisks is not one of them. It actually diminishes concerns of racism in society. Not a flattering look.