General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Fly in the Ointment
I'll start by saying I have great respect for good lawyers. Over the decades, I've had the opportunity to work with a number of outstanding lawyers on both criminal and civil cases, in state and federal courts. I have some cousins who practice law. And one of my daughters currently works in a law office.
I also like many average lawyers. They do a lot of important work. And it definitely takes intelligence and self-discipline to earn a law degree and be admitted to the bar. It's a tough job, and thus many individuals with a law degree end up not practicing law.
That brings us to Michael Cohen.
My brother has said that one in ten lawyers graduated in the bottom 10% of their class. In Cohen's case, we can agree that one in a hundred graduated in the bottom 1% of their class. Hence, while Cohen must have a degree of intelligence, and had some self-discipline, he ended up working for Trump, though not as Trump's lawyer.
Since the FBI raided Cohen's home, office, etc, and confiscated literally millions of documents and recordings, it is commonly recognized that Cohen is in dire legal trouble. It's safe to say that Cohen's troubles are likely to create serious legal problems for Donald Trump. So let's take a look at the nature of their relationship.
Trump, being a sociopath, only has relationships based upon how useful an individual can be to him. This includes his seeking to identify the individual's weak points, to exploit as needed. Cohen has more than a few weak points, but let's focus upon his adolescent need for a hero/ father-figure. Cohen, in this sense, demonstrates the same level of maturity that a 13-year old boy displays when thinking that wearing a Michael Jordan jersey will improve his game.
Trump exploited this tendency. He encouraged Cohen's adolescent identification with television and movie tough guys, in order to get Cohen to willingly inhabit the muck and mire of Trump's business interests. Cohen, as federal investigators have documented, even told friends that he was connected to the Russian mob. He fancied himself as the new Roy Cohn. He even believed that he was part of the family, Trump's adopted son.
Existing in this delusional state caused Cohen to believe that, like on a cheap movie, everything he did for Trump was protected in the context of attorney-client communications. Thus, his education in the legal field resulted in his keeping extensive records of his work for Trump, including with shady characters and illegal activities.
Cohen was confident his experience in the gutter would insure a major position within Trump's administration. He was so sure of this, that he actually said that Trump should not bring Jared and Ivanka into the White House. Not surprisingly, those two advised Trump to not bring Cohen to Washington, though he was unlikely to anyhow. Trump wanted to keep the janitor of the gutters out of public view, other than appearances on Sean Hannity's show.
When the shit hit the fan in April, Cohen thought his legal team's coordinating with Trump's on the documentation the FBI gathered, meant they were on the same team. The Trump team had already been covering much of Cohen's legal expenses. So Cohen was willing to lie to his own lawyers, in a pathetic attempt to protect Trump. He didn't grasp that there was a divide between who the two legal teams were representing.
In time, it began to dawn on Cohen that this was not reel life, and that in real life, he was in serious trouble. When Trump's legal team became fully aware of the documentation that the FBI had secured for the SDNY federal investigators, the father-son relationship fractured. Perhaps Cohen recalled the line from the movie Braveheart, when the mad Irishman tells William Wallace that the Lord says he might get me out of this, but I think you're fucked.
Part of the reason Cohen is separating from his legal team is because he can't pay them. But it's more than that. Good lawyers generally do not appreciate clients that lie to them. Or clients who beg them to keep Sean Hannity's identity secret in federal court, for that matter. Indeed, the only way for a good lawyer to represent Cohen at this point, is to try to secure the best deal possible for him. And even that will be difficult --- for what might Cohen's team use as a proffer to investigators and prosecutors, that they haven't already documented through the FBI raid and previous surveillance ?
Friday should prove interesting, both for Cohen and Paul Manafort.
Peace,
H2O Man
ProudMNDemocrat
(18,325 posts)When related to Michael Cohen.
Cohen's ties to Donald Trump as his "fixer" will reveal exactly what Cohen fixed in addition to Stormy Daniels affair.
DownriverDem
(6,461 posts)My brother is a lawyer and I work in a law firm as a paralegal. I just wish we would find out all trump's dirty dealings sooner rather than later.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)I kid of course.
I think Cohen's legal team quit because once they saw just a fraction of the filth they had gotten mixed up in, they realized that the President's lawyer's lawyers needed lawyers of their own. And so on and so forth ad infinitum.
H2O Man
(74,742 posts)I thought that was a fitting line from a movie for Cohen. (I'm trying to think of a movie that might fit the Trump family for a future essay; all that comes to mind is the 1979 film "Caligula."
Raster
(20,999 posts)We truly live in interesting times.
DownriverDem
(6,461 posts)scary times.
Raster
(20,999 posts)...but yes, I hear you.
H2O Man
(74,742 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(151,273 posts)I really admire and respect the way you have laid out how this situation has evolved.
I too look forward to whatever Friday may bring. I hope that both tRump and Cohen are extremely displeased/unhappy with it.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)H2O Man
(74,742 posts)I was happily surprised by the NYS Attorney General's filing against the Trump family today. I just got back home from training my son, and need to watch the news for updates. I think Trump tweeted some nonsense about this being "political." I do not believe that he has the intellectual capacity to grasp what he is being hit with. This is a wonderful example of the coordination between Mr. Mueller, the SDNY, and the NYSAG.
malaise
(274,991 posts)Waterman.
H2O Man
(74,742 posts)It should be an enjoyable weekend -- at least for us! (grin) I imagine it is rather tense within the Trump circle. I like the rumors that at least two White House rats are preparing to abandon ship.
dameatball
(7,528 posts)The "A" students become law school professors.
The "B" students become judges.
The "C" students make all the money.
H2O Man
(74,742 posts)I've never heard that before. But now I'm prepared for the next family reunion!
coeur_de_lion
(3,762 posts)But I feel deeply sorry for the poor bastard.
He thought if he protected Fredo, Fredo would protect him.
That was never going to happen.
His life is in shreds right now and the only way to mend it is to turn on the man who he thought loved him. Fredo loves no one, not even himself.
Because I love my country and hate Fredo I am looking forward to seeing this play out in court. But I have a soft spot for foolish people sometimes and I know that Cohens pain is only just beginning.
Sad. But let the pain begin. And God have mercy let this please be the beginning of the end.
OMGWTF
(4,300 posts)Amen to that!
coeur_de_lion
(3,762 posts)when this whole thing finally comes to light.
Preacher (H2O Man) says, "can I get an Amen?"
And all the DUers will say,
AMEN!!!!
AMEN!!!!
AMEN!!!!
calimary
(83,401 posts)I instantly hated his belligerent, bullying in-yer-face shit. "Sez WHO?" "Sez WHO?" Just nasty as hell, rude as hell, and in yer face all the way. As though spoiling for a fight was his natural default position.
I've hated him from that moment. I hope they don't just throw the book at him, but that they throw entire LIBRARIES of books at him.
And times 1,000,000,000 for his lying cheating scamming scheming deceitful manipulative rapist boss.
I swear, the only thing that holds me together these days is an old saw I keep repeating to myself: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." Straight to God's Ears, PLEASE!!!!!!!!
coeur_de_lion
(3,762 posts)Calimary I know you are I just keep thinking of his wife, his kids . . .
I never saw the "SEZ WHO" but I did read about it. I forgot about it until you mentioned it.
So, let Bob Mueller tell him, "SEZ ME."
He won't fall as hard has Fredo but he will fall really hard.
As H2O mentioned above he was good at documenting so he may be the key to this whole thing.
I take it back. I don't pity him. Just his family.
tblue37
(65,948 posts)Here is the real one (the "sez who" part starts at 2:00, but his nastiness and over the top belligerence starts at the beginning):
<iframe width="656" height="369" src="
This doctored one is funny:
<iframe width="656" height="369" src="?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
coeur_de_lion
(3,762 posts)I think I can live with watching him go to jail.
Here he is defending Fredo.
Fredo wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire.
I think that's the part that makes me pity him asshole that he is.
He thought he was in a reciprocal relationship with the orange one.
H2O Man
(74,742 posts)soft hearted. That's your nature. I am not suggesting that you are pleasant to argue with ......not saying that, since I've witnessed your abilities from years ago, against a creature called Pallas. But then you feel sorry for idiots.
I do not have compassion for Cohen at this point. I'm too familiar with his nature. He didn't dream that there would be consequences for his terrible behavior. But there are, and those consequences are harsh indeed.
coeur_de_lion
(3,762 posts)I find people like Pallas on facebook once in awhile. And I am merciless.
You just miss all the good stuff.
Solly Mack
(91,560 posts)But if I'm ever in need of a lawyer, I'll not be telling any lawyer jokes.
Not even if they claim to like them.
Moral: Don't ever piss off or (try to) screw over your lawyer. (don't lie to them)
The saying goes - Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
But sometimes the hand that feeds you will also slap you - hard.
Moral being: The food ain't always worth it. (If someone else is paying, they call the shots...or stop paying)
Between a rock and a hard place - stop banging your head.
Use the wiggle room instead. (Mueller, Mueller, Mueller)
And always remember, the light at the end of the tunnel might just be a train but trains run on tracks.
Get off the tracks, Cohen.
Save yourself, dumbass. (as much as you can)
Trump won't.
K&R
Faux pas
(15,068 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(10,448 posts)Hekate
(93,446 posts)Peace
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)But even if Cohen's lawyers weren't getting paid, they generally have an obligation to follow through or complete all the tasks they're currently performing for their client before a court will allow them to withdraw. Friday's hearing (or conference or whatever) should be interesting for what isn't said in court as for what is said.
I agree that part of the reason Cohen's lawyers want to get out of their representation has to do with Cohen not being completely forthcoming with them. Nobody likes nasty surprises, and lawyers REALLY don't like nasty surprises from their clients. I worked for one attorney who said that people lied to him every day, and part of his job was figuring out who was lying to him. He impressed on his sketchier clients that things would go very badly for them if they lied to him.
Bernardo de La Paz
(50,265 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(50,265 posts)1% of 1% is 0.01 % or one in ten thousand.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)And he's "tough" and "smart!"
calimary
(83,401 posts)Throw in Michael Flynn, too, for good measure.
Pathwalker
(6,602 posts)School; a law school so bad that several graduates sued them successfully for their diplomas being virtually worthless.
Cooley law is currently located in Lansing, Mi.
Danascot
(4,814 posts)in Italian-American slang. It's a variation of culo.
gademocrat7
(10,975 posts)Hoping Manafort goes to jail and Cohen flips.
kytngirl
(99 posts)...Cohen and the rest of his cronies? Why should they be afraid if they know even found guilty, a presidential pardon is coming down the pike?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Turd can't pardon those.
blugbox
(955 posts)And if that is the case, trump is unable to exercise his pardon power if the state brings charges.
kytngirl
(99 posts)In that case, he will flip! No doubt about it. He's looking at YEARS in prison and for what? To protect somebody who treats them like crap once their usefulness is done. Cohen crowed about his loyalty to Trump, but I've never hear those sentiments expressed by the Trumpster towards Cohen in return.
I hope he sings like a mockingbird.
tblue37
(65,948 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)for that is how I think of Cohen, him having learned from the best.
blugbox
(955 posts)... when they are on the streets. He is currently waaaay out of his league.
kentuck
(112,212 posts)When it rains, it pours.
OnDoutside
(20,535 posts)15 x 50 x 750 = $562,500 a WEEK for 6-8 weeks !
The kicker is that it appears the Trump Organisation are disputing the invoices, and that's why the lawyers have walked off the job. The old failing of not paying the bills is going to come back and bite them on the ass. It's an incredibly stupid move.
He also said that you'd always hear new lawyers have been appointed as the old are moved on. Cohen hasn't done this, and is clearly waiting for Trump to cough up or he might consider flipping.