What will it take?

[SheilaT]

Maybe a mass shooting every week, or every day?

What will it take for this country to finally stop thinking that these things are just weird aberrations and have nothing at all to do with our stupid gun laws.

[taterguy]

1. What will it take for people to post these threads in the appropriate forum?

[Motown_Johnny]

3. this is the appropriate forum

this is news and falls under GD forum rules

[MineralMan]

5. I think an ongoing story about a mass shooting that isn't even resolved

fits just fine in GD.

[jillan]

10. Here comes the forum police!

[demwing]

15. Why is that funny?

more so, why is it rofl funny?

[rufus dog]

17. It is in the proper thread

Could be in Breaking New, the Gun Forum, or here for general discussion.

[itsrobert]

25. Wow, I hope you are not a host

When big news like this occurs, these types of threads are allowed.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Sooner or later, this county will come to it's senses.

but probably not in my lifetime.

[B Calm]

4. Wrong forum

[nc4bo]

6. They are happening rather regularly now.

Canada. Alabama. Colorado. Now Wisconsin.

I have NO idea SheilaT. You'd think there would be much more political discussion. Instead our politicians tipeetoe all around it scared of the NRA.

M$M won't discuss the important stuff or making gray out of black and white, seems like they're going for the sky high ratings.

[FarCenter]

7. Syria has strict gun laws.

[Major Nikon]

11. And their homicide rates are about half compared to the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[FarCenter]

26. The Syrian homicide rate appears to be rather high over the last year.

Someone who feels sufficiently aggrieved will obtain a weapon and use it.

[Major Nikon]

30. And Syria appears to be in civil war

Still not sure what your point is, and I don't think I want to go any farther to find out, but you go ahead.

[Fumesucker]

21. But Iraq was awash in weapons when Saddam reigned there..

Just having guns by no means assures that the population will be able to resist a dictatorship..

[laundry_queen]

32. Exactly.

People in the US seem to think that having some kind of huge arsenal in their garage means that the US must be free. Like a dictatorship could never slip in the back door. Heck, in this case, the same people are greeting it with waving flags and cheers.

[former9thward]

33. Iraqis seem to disagree with you.

At least those quoted in the Washington Post. "But America has terrorism and they are exporting it to us. We did not have this violence in the Saddam era because the law was so tough on guns."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041701805_2.html

[Fumesucker]

34. I know lots of Americans who think the law is tough on guns here in the USA..

The Iraqis damn sure managed to find a whole bunch of guns tout suite after the invasion..

[Harmony Blue]

8. The realization that guns are a poor form of self defense

and a hand gun in this situation isn't saving you when you are surprised by a well armed, determined, coordinated foe(s).

[Ya Basta]

40. "guns are a poor form of self defense"

Hmmmmm???

Any questions?

[jillan]

9. When are we going to start calling this what it is - Domestic Terrorism?

Something has to change.

[sad sally]

12. Sad to say the one today and two weeks ago are not anomalies - gun violence makes arms makers rich

April 1999 - UNITED STATES - Two heavily-armed teenagers went on a rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, shooting 13 students and staff before taking their own lives.

July 1999 - UNITED STATES - A gunman killed nine people at two brokerages in Atlanta, after apparently killing his wife and two children. He committed suicide five hours later.

Oct. 2002 - UNITED STATES - John Muhammad and Lee Malvo killed 10 people in sniper-style shooting deaths that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area.

April 16, 2007 - USA - Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia, became the site of the deadliest rampage in U.S. history when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

July 20, 2012 - UNITED STATES - A masked gunman killed 14 people and wounded 50 others when he opened fire on moviegoers at a showing of new Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in the city of Denver.

Aug. 5, 2012 - UNITED STATES - details emerging...

[HiPointDem]

13. They don't have anything to do with our 'stupid gun laws'. we had the same laws in the past,

but not a mass shooting every week.

they have something to do with our economy & culture.

[chknltl]

22. I do not own guns...but imo you may be right

As of late, I have been reading arguments from fellow DUers from both sides of this issue. I do not own a gun nor do I have any desire to own one.

That said, it does indeed seem to me that there is a strong cultural element going on here, a deliberately manufactured one I think. It would not surprise me to find out that without the NRA promoting the gun industry and Fox news (and etc), promoting their propaganda, the USA could have been a far safer place this past year or so.

[sweetapogee]

36. I think

it would be better if, instead of banning guns, we first ban the bible then the fundies will be so lost they will forget all about their guns.

[chknltl]

37. it never occured to me to seek a can o worms ..

...inside a can o worms. I believe it prudent to just wander on by...dum de dum de dum... Such a pleasant day....think i'll take the dogs for a walk, yep ...that's what I am gonna do. Nope no worms around here, all cans closed.

[agent46]

14. Guns yes but

I think the real problem is a society and culture in which the populace is swimming in lies and drowning in cognitive dissonance.

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. At least the conversation is started...

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. It is the the normal, sadly

Pols are too cowardly to face both hate groups and the NRA.

My commendation to the officer who stopped it...cue...trained shooter doing this while on duty.

[Ya Basta]

19. Just remember, there were 84 million gun owners that didn't kill anyone last night or last year, etc

However 400,000+ Americans are killed every year from tobacco plus thousands upon thousands more are killed from alcohol and a myriad of other 'legally' purchased products. So what are we suppose to do? Nurf the world?

Unjustifiable homicide and assault with a deadly weapon are crimes. Owning and responsibly using firearms is not a crime. If you have a problem with that, then, you have a problem with the concept of freedom and perhaps you're not cut out to be an American. No sarcasm. I'm just saying.

[Harmony Blue]

20. As a society we make a distinction between what we personally choose to

do compared to what is done unto others. This is where your argument falls apart.

I can walk away from a smoker, but when someone is pointing a gun to your head you don't have much "choice".

[Ya Basta]

24. And as a republic we cannot democratically eliminate natural rights.

Yes I said natural rights. I'll get back to that in a moment.

While you might be able to walk away from a smoker. On the other hand you wont be able to walk away from someone who's stoned or drunk while driving and plowing into you. Again are we suppose to nurf the world or in this case outlaw the consumption of alcohol because some people are irresponsible? No I don't think so. But what we do is we have laws which make actual criminal acts a crime and employ law enforcement agencies to police those laws. That's what it is to live in a free society.


Now as I promised back to my point on natural rights.

U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)

"The right there specified is that of bearing arms for a lawful purpose. This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."


http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=92&invol=542

In other words the Supreme Court is saying it is a "natural right" which existed prior to the constitution.

[handmade34]

29. growing hemp used

to be a natural right... what happened??

[Ruby the Liberal]

23. Sadly, it is going to have to personally affect those who make the laws.

Apparently Gabby Giffords wasn't enough. It terrifies me to think what would have to happen before they get off their asses and start putting some common sense legislation out there.

[patrice]

27. Correction: "...and have nothing at all to do with ..." that which CAUSED this WHOLE situation ....

STUPID gun laws and all.

[Ruby the Liberal]

28. Killings mark 4th mass murder in state since 2004

The killings Sunday at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek are the fourth mass murder in Wisconsin since 2004.

The previous mass murders are:

Nov. 21, 2004: Six people are killed when Chai Soua Vang, a 35-year-old Hmong immigrant and naturalized U.S. citizen, shoots eight people while deer hunting east of Birchwood in northern Wisconsin. A truck driver from St. Paul, Minn., Vang is sentenced to six consecutive life terms in prison, plus 165 years in confinement, on Nov. 9, 2005.

March 12, 2005: Seven people are killed and four wounded when Terry Michael Ratzmann opens fire at a Living Church of God service at the Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield. Ratzmann, a 44-year-old computer technician, then committed suicide.

Oct. 7, 2007: Six people are killed and one wounded when Forest County Sheriff's Department Deputy Tyler James Peterson goes on a shooting rampage at his ex-girlfriend's apartment. Peterson, 20, then shot and killed himself.

http://m.jsonline.com/165072026.htm

[hack89]

31. When gun violence stops its 30 year decline

and starts increasing.

America has cut it's murder rate in half since 1992 - I think most people know and understand they have never been safer. Hence their reluctance to embrace draconian gun control.

[Ruby the Liberal]

35. I am sure this brings great comfort to the families of the victims.

But don't let that stop you. Do carry on.

[hack89]

38. So what am I suppose to say?

It is a huge tragedy - nothing I have said minimizes that fact.

The OP asked a serious question - I gave a serious answer. I wrote what I did to answer a specific question, not to comfort the families.

[Ruby the Liberal]

39. Decorum.

How about just backing off and not posting your gun fetishes for 24 hours in the wake of a tragedy. Would that be so difficult?

[hack89]

41. And does the same apply to the anti-gun posters?

can we ask that pro-gun Democrats not be the brunt of broad brush smears in the first 24 hours? Would that be so difficult?

If you don't want us posting then don't ask us questions.