The disadvantage of being a reality based liberal talking to a conservative :

[hedgehog]

So, I'm with a bunch of high school friends, all very smart women. But some of them are so dumb, they haven't learned a thing in 30 years about real life. One woman is a successful doctor who got through medical school when women students were still an oddity. Yet she remarks about people on food stamps eating steak and shrimp......

Now, I think that she is wildly inaccurate, but do i have actual facts and figures at my fingertips? No. I recalled a few minutes later that the big complaint in my town, where there are a lot of people on food stamps, is that some mother dared to buy her kid a grocery store birthday cake with stamps. Then I started to wonder where, in a typical inner city or rural food dessert, did people find steak and shrimp?

So anyways, between not having the facts, not wanting to cause a fight and feeling that the effort would be like trying to teach a pig to sing, I said nothing.

[Scuba]

1. Many inner city neighborhoods lack supermarkets; locals are held hostage by the mini-marts....

... fresh produce is a fantasy.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x935046

[Pale Blue Dot]

2. You can find abuse in any program.

There's not a single governmental or corporate program that can't be abused if someone is willing. That's why we have to stop getting into arguments about the abuses and talk about the overall value of the programs for our society. There are companies abusing the corporate welfare program and people abusing the welfare program, but overall the personal welfare program is much more important to us as a society, IMO.

[Ian David]

3. You can't sway those people with facts. That just makes them resist MORE.

You have to use emotional arguments.

How facts backfire
Researchers discover a surprising threat to democracy: our brains
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

The Republican Brain, Part II: Politics, Psychology, and Biology
http://www.winningprogressive.org/the-republican-brain-part-ii-politics-psychology-and-biology

[RedCappedBandit]

4. As if occasionally eating well is such a travesty

I probably wouldn't engage with such a person anyway. They typically just make shit up and start shouting.

[1-Old-Man]

5. You can find a single example of anything, but what counts is systemic abuse

and systemic abuse simply does not exist in programs for poor people. Do you know how you can tell? Its simple actually. Poor people remain poor. If they are scamming the system(s) for billions of dollars where is the money? Its dam sure not in the hands of the "poor".

[hedgehog]

11. I am going to write that down and repeat it to myself every morning!

Why have I not realized this before? THANK YOU! I'm serious!

[digonswine]

16. Yes-

my liberal(really!) brother, when looking around, complains about the county workers. About the city workers, not working hard enough. He misses the the vast waste of the military-industrial complex, the rich paying less taxes, etc.
He is a town board member, however, and sees what is in front of his nose.
We are very parochial here.

[malthaussen]

6. I don't care if they eat caviare and swill champagne

... out of a crystal shoe. Why is it my business how they spend their food stamps?

-- Mal

[unblock]

10. yeah, what happened to freedom? besides, the more restrictions you put on spending,

the more you just create an incentive for a black market.

alternatively, money is fungible, so they can buy only "approved" food with food stamps and reserve their meager cash for the "extravagances". would the world be a better place if they bought vegetables with food stamps one day and came back an hour later to buy a cake with cash?

[lunatica]

7. The best thing to do is engage her in a civil conversation

Ask her where she got her facts. Let her have her say and then respond to what she says. You don't have to have facts and figures to have a humane response to her. Just tell her that most welfare recipients are white women with children. You'll usually find that she will back down and agree that there are many women who benefit by having welfare. Remind her that most people on welfare are on it for a short time before they can get themselves back into a job.

Most people are dumb that way, but most people really aren't cruel. They're just ignorant of the facts. All you have to do is argue from the basis of humanitarianism. After all your friend is in the business of saving lives as a doctor. She'll get it.

The argument most of us have is how to dispel stereotypical thinking. It's not easy but it can be done if you're consistent. Just know that there are stereotypical thinkers who aren't that way on purpose.

[hedgehog]

12. She's the kind of person who knows someone who heard that someone

else saw this some time. She knows what she knows, and you're left trying to prove a negative.

[lunatica]

15. then don't waste your time

My philosophy is:

Don't confuse people who've made up their mind. Facts only confuses them more.

[Smilo]

8. Did you know that the military in the USA

is considered the biggest "welfare" recipient - say it with a smile and a wink and then excuse yourself.

[JDPriestly]

9. You should have said,

You know, a lot of people are hiding things. What do you suppose Romney is hiding in his tax returns?

Do you suppose that he is cheating on food stamps?

[Warpy]

13. I say something, but I really don't give a shit about keeping the peace

with people that ignorant.

I'll tell them their AM radios are lying to them, that people on food stamps generally don't get enough to keep them healthy, just barely alive, and that if she does see someone buy a birthday cake with food stamps, she can jolly well bet that mother has done without quite a few essentials to save up for it.

I'd say shame on her and then drop it.

[tularetom]

14. Make shit up and defend it loudly and indignantly

That's the only type of discussion a stupid person can understand. They aren't operating in the realm of fact, it's all emotion to them. If you can sound more sure of your argument (by the power of your emotional defense of your assertions) you can at least plant a seed of doubt in their certainty.

The claims you make don't have to be true. Her's aren't. You don't have to really be pissed off, just act that way. If you can pull this off you will have mastered the art of winning an argument with an idiot.