Civil or uncivil isn't the point. It's what will help us win in November

[Tom Rinaldo]

Taking back the House, and even possibly the Senate, is "Plan A" for resistance right now. That plus "Plan M" for Mueller, but we have no role for now in "Plan M", so "Plan A" is it for the rest of us. "Plan A" remains in effect for just a short 4 and a half month window. Then we take stock of where we stand, and the door will swing wide open for Plans B through Z if necessary.

I'm not concerned with the moral tone of our resistance right now. As long as it is non violent, all resistance to Trumpism is justified in the face of what Trump is doing. But i do weigh how the other actions we can take might impact the chances of "Plan A" succeeding, until the mid terms are behind us.

I don't judge the call to confront those complicit with Trump in public, that leaders like Congresswoman Waters are making, on its stand alone merit alone. I have no doubt those types of confrontations are fully warranted. The only question is whether they are tactically wise. Will they add to voter turn out for the anti-Trump forces more than they will do so for the Trumpsers? Will they effect voter turnout for us in positive or negative ways inside the districts we must win in November?

I honestly don't know the answer to those questions, but I have no doubt it is what various Democratic leaders are weighing now when they speak out on the issue of so-called "civil discourse". I will say this though. Were it not for the rapidly approaching mid term elections that will be so consequential to our nation in so many critical ways, I would be clearer on the simple principle that evil must be confronted where and when we find it (as long as we don't embrace aspects of evil in order to supposedly fight it).

We can't quietly stand by and allow America to slide ever closer to malevolent authoritarian rule. It just might be though that confronting it now, in Washington malls and restaurants, could in places undermine our effectiveness at confronting it at the ballot box in November. That is the only question, not whether "good Americans" are supposed to always stay "civil".

[el_bryanto]

1. I suppose that depends on whether you consider Civility a virtue

There are many particularly on the right but a few on the left as well who see civility as a form of capitulation or weakness. I want a civil discourse but, at the same time, we desperately need to win in November.

I'll also say that full throated resistance probably feels better than some form of compromise. I'd feel better supporting candidates who were 100% dedicated to stopping Trump and restoring real liberal ideals to this nation, but I don't know if that would be the most effective tack to take.

Bryant

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. I agree with what you wrote. All of it

My gut suggests that spontaneous displays of revulsion toward those who are betraying our nation are inevitable, and probably more constructive than not politically as well. All voters need to know just how divisive to America Trump's regime has become. And we can not allow numbness to set in over his moral outrages.

I suspect though that it would work more against us, in regards to November's outcome, if coordinated organized efforts are made to ambush and shame Trump officials repeatedly around the nation before the November vote is held. That is my best guess.

[HAB911]

2. I don't see anyone currently inclined to vote against Trump

changing their minds because of harassment of administration officials. This presumes we field credible tickets which I believe we are.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. I wasn't suggesting that. Of course you are right

The question regards those who may or may not bother to actually vote in November. More specifically Republican voters who may or may not actually show up at the polls. All the surveys to date have shown greater enthusiasm to turn out on election day among Democrats than among Republicans. That has a lot to do with why a Blue wave has been predicted.

Trump knows this. He is betting on revving up an outrage machine within his base to motivate more of them to vote than has been predicted to date. I don't want that to succeed. Public attention must stay focused on the kids who are torn away from their parents, more so than on supposedly beleaguered Trump officials

[HAB911]

8. Absolutely agree

this is like a minefield to navigate without a minesweeper

[eShirl]

3. America needs to make the fascists afraid to show their faces again.

[lagomorph777]

4. There is a line, somewhere between liberal and Trumpanzee, below which people only respect force.

Trump supporters clearly celebrate and worship cruelty and evil. Most of us clearly value decency and politeness.

There is a group, somewhere in the middle, who can't abide cruelty toward children, but who will respect loud, rude, slightly scary demonstrations against evil people. This group is who we might be able to sway if we show force, which to them is synonymous with strength.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. Interesting perspective

Above I wrote in a reply that spontaneous shows of revulsion against cruelty toward refugees was, in my opinion, a net positive. I try to monitor Trumps propaganda tactics because unfortunately they tend ot be more effective than I hoped they could ever be. Trump clearly wants to change to story line from mistreatment of migrant families to mistreatment of government officials. It dos not matter for his purposes that a claim of equivalence between those concerns is farcical. He wants to control the narrative to the extent possible and doing so has served him well to date even when the shiny objects he distracts the media and public with are not necessarily complementary to him.

We are approaching the stretch run of a crucial election. Every 24 hour news cycle is critical.

[Afromania]

5. The problem isn't being civil or uncivil

The real problem is that it should make no difference to those casting their votes in November. It should not make one wits bit of difference how the message is put across because it's quite clear that we are spiraling the drain. We got here through being quite civil and cooperative with the people that are doing this to the country.

By continuing to do so the only thing we do is encourage them to take more ground. What happens at the next election when we aren't rubbing their tummies, patting their heads and telling them, they are all good boys and girls for shitting on the carpet? The election after that, or the one after that? How long do we keep telling them it's ok to act like this before we say this far and no farther?

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. What should or should not make a difference to people now is moot

I agree with you about what should make a difference. And Trump should not be President.

If we take the House in November real Congressional hearings will be launched in January under Democratic control. That's what I meant by "Plan A". There are a very limited number of 24 hour news cycles between now and election day. Trump has plans for how to dominate them, and a big part of that is to shift media attention away from the children in detention, to almost anything else, for every minute possible.

[Afromania]

13. That's why we have to keep being "uncivil" and not letting them frame the narrative.

there will be something worthy of attention every single day between now and the elections. When we show up and let it be known things won't be tolerated they back down, they back down. We are always civil and they walk over our backs. We need to make them fight for it, need to make them own their garbage and we need to do that buy saying that we aren't going to be quiet about what you are doing.

[Fullduplexxx]

11. After 8 years of monkey jokes and nooses , kim davis , trump's grab em by the pussy

Send him out on a stretcher. Now the subject of civility comes up

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Repeat. Civility isn't the question

They have not earned civility toward them. The question is how to control the news cycles between now and Nov. 8th to Democrats advantage. This is the same question, from the other side, that Trump tries to answer before every tweet he sends. The electoral strategy to resist Trump goes into eclipse on November 9th. The entire strategic game field changes on that date regardless of the election outcomes.

[forthemiddle]

14. I lived through the Walker Recall in Wisconsin

During the Act 10 debacle there where multiple protests, activists, confrontations, etc.

The protests basically got a good response from the public, but when the activists started getting personally confrontational the average public attitude started to change. When the protesters protested during a Special Olympics presentation that Walker was presiding over, that became a rallying cry for Walker supporters. When they disrupted his personal home address (not the Governors Mansion where we was staying during the week) that his inlaws were staying while watching his sons, the public didn't like that. It goes on and on, and in the end the exit polls showed that it pushed Walker over the edge to winning the recall election.

Generally, people don't mind, and even respect the action of organized protests, but they don't like the emotional outbursts that we saw then, and in my opinion, we are seeing now.

I blame this whole atmosphere solidly on Trumps own behavior, but I don't think I like where the Country is going by following his lead.
Will we ever again have a President that can truly unite our Country? I doubt it, because I don't know how we can go back from here.

I hope I'm wrong.