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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMore retirees see SS checks reduced for student loans
For Unpaid College Loans, Feds Dock Social Security
More retirees are falling behind on student debt, and Uncle Sam is coming after their benefits.
By ANNAMARIA ANDRIOTIS
AUGUST 7, 2012, 3:18 P.M. ET
It's no secret that falling behind on student loan payments can squash a borrower's hopes of building savings, buying a home or even finding work. Now, thousands of retirees are learning that defaulting on student-debt can threaten something that used to be untouchable: their Social Security benefits.
According to government data, compiled by the Treasury Department at the request of SmartMoney.com, the federal government is withholding money from a rapidly growing number of Social Security recipients who have fallen behind on federal student loans. From January through August 6, the government reduced the size of roughly 115,000 retirees' Social Security checks on those grounds. That's nearly double the pace of the department's enforcement in 2011; it's up from around 60,000 cases in all of 2007 and just 6 cases in 2000.
The amount that the government withholds varies widely, though it runs up to 15%. Assuming the average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker of $1,234, that could mean a monthly haircut of almost $190. "This is going to catch an awful lot of people off guard and wreak havoc on their financial lives," says Sheryl Garrett, a financial planner in Eureka Springs, Ark.
Many of these retirees aren't even in hock for their own educations. Consumer advocates say that in the majority of the cases they've seen, the borrowers went into debt later in life to help defray education costs for their children or other dependents. Harold Grodberg, an elder law attorney in Bayonne, N.J., says he's worked with at least six clients in the past two years whose problems started with loans they signed up for to help pay for their grandchildren's tuition. Other attorneys say they're working with older borrowers who had signed up for the federal PLUS loan -- a loan for parents of undergraduates -- to cover tuition costs. Other retirees took out federal loans when they returned to college in midlife, and a few are carrying debt from their own undergraduate or graduate-school years....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senior-citizens-continue-to-bear-burden-of-student-loans/2012/04/01/gIQAs47lpS_story.html
Washington Post: Senior Citizens Continue to bear burden of student loans
By Ylan Q. Mui,
April, 2012
The burden of paying for college is wreaking havoc on the finances of an unexpected demographic: senior citizens.
New research from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York shows that Americans 60 and older still owe about $36 billion in student loans, providing a rare window into the dynamics of student debt. More than 10 percent of those loans are delinquent. As a result, consumer advocates say, it is not uncommon for Social Security checks to be garnished or for debt collectors to harass borrowers in their 80s over student loans that are decades old.
....
That even seniors remain saddled with student loans highlights what a growing chorus of lawmakers, economists and financial experts say has become a central conflict in the nations higher education system: The long-touted benefits of a college degree are being diluted by rising tuition rates and the longevity of debt.
....
A student loan can be a debt thats kind of like a ball and chain that you can drag to the grave, said William E. Brewer, president of the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys. You can unhook it when they lay you in the coffin.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)the final collapse of the U.S.
If someone has only $100 it doesn't matter if they owe $1,000,000, they only have $100 and the debt will not make $1,000,000 somehow appear. This is the definition of intractable and something will inevitably give.
K&R
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)If there is to be a massive reform, it will have to grow from public outrage. To the one percent who rule by corporate ledgers rather than morality, it is cheaper if those no longer capable of working to pay debts and earn them a profit simply die.
I like your sigline.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Both of them were acerbic rabble rousers, qualities seriously lacking today (at least on the sane side).
We need revolutionaries, not the accountants and appeasers we are stuck with today.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)You can't have euthanasia, but it is OK to starve someone.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Fortunately, I do not have a student loan to repay, but I really feel sorry for those who do.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)Am I that old? I won't retire for another 30 years, but I was under the impression that college was, for those who can retire now, just a tad more affordable back then, and most people didn't go into great debt to go to college. Wow!
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)It was loans for children and grandchildren and such.
That make a lot more sense. I was beginning to question my own self-pity.
EnviroBat
(5,290 posts)This endentured servitude is criminal.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We have more than enough money in this country to meet basic needs and build a more humane society.
We are fucked because we accept the lies of the one percent and their purchased politicians about what is possible and what isn't, what is important and what isn't. We are fucked because we allow brazen thievery and diversion of massive wealth into bloody empire building and the pockets of the obscenely rich.
We are fucked because we accept this garbage, and because we respond like lemmings to their lies, blaming and turning on each other instead of putting the blame where it really belongs.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)In Spain, housing debts are not dischargeable. You can lose your house and still have to pay for it, I was reading last night in an article disucssing the plight of Spanish citizens under austerity.
It is hard to believe that so few American citizens did not realize they could not discharge student loans.
I wonder when car loans will be come a permanent millstone...
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)Romney has an IRA worth $100 million.
Just another day in WTF-istan.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)No way in hell should SS be subject to garnishment. This country really does not give a shit about anyone.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)fuck up/THIEVERY?
Let us little people owe the government just a pittance of what the banksters stole, and we're on the hook until we die.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Had enough yet, America?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)is getting their SS garnished, that has to be all they have.
This is a disgrace. I would love to see the law that has allowed this happen and who was responsible for it.
BrendaBrick
(1,296 posts)I'm confused about this. Found this on the ssa.gov site FAQ just now:
Garnishing Social Security benefits due to a debt - Updated 06/04/2012 03:09 PM | ID# 426
Can creditors such as credit card, mortgage or auto loan companies garnish Social Security benefits to pay a debt?
No. If a creditor other than the federal government tries to garnish your Social Security benefits, inform them that such an action violates Section 207 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 407).
Section 207 bars garnishment of your benefits. It can also be used as a defense if your benefits are incorrectly garnished. Our responsibility for protecting benefits against garnishment, assignments and other legal processes usually ends when the beneficiary is paid. However, once paid, benefits continue to be protected under section 207 of Act as long as they are identifiable as Social Security benefits.
NOTE: Supplemental Security Income payments cannot be levied or garnished.
Source: http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/426/~/garnishing-social-security-benefits-due-to-a-debt
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
And this:
Garnishing Social Security benefits - Updated 06/04/2012 03:09 PM | ID# 1712
Can Social Security benefits be garnished, levied or otherwise withheld by the Federal government?
There are a number of circumstances when the Federal government can garnish Social Security benefits.
Social Security will garnish benefits:
To enforce child support or alimony obligations under 42 USC 659.
To enforce a valid garnishment for court-ordered victim restitution under 18 USC 3613.
To collect unpaid federal taxes under 26 USC 6334(c).
To have a portion of your check withheld to satisfy a current year federal income tax liability under 26 USC 3402 (P).
Other federal agencies will offset benefits to collect money from benefits to pay a non-tax debt owed to that agency according to the Debt Collection Act of 1996 (Public Law 104-134).
Source: http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1712/~/garnishing-social-security-benefits
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The second article in the OP from the Washington Post cited this (under "New Research" - 2nd paragraph from NY Fed):
<snip> (bold = mine)
The outstanding student loan balance now stands at about $870 billion,1 surpassing the total credit card balance ($693 billion) and the total auto loan balance ($730 billion). With college enrollments increasing and the costs of attendance rising, this balance is expected to continue its upward trend. Further, unlike other types of household debt such as credit cards and auto loans, the student loan market is incredibly complex. Numerous players and institutions hold stakes at each level of the market, including federal and state governments, colleges and universities, financial institutions, students and their families, and numerous servicers and guarantee facilitators.
Student loans have received considerable media attention in recent months as researchers and policymakers voice growing concern about the heavy debt loads assumed by students and their parents. In addition to worries about the volume of outstanding student debt, there is concern about having enough federal aid to support the large number of students taking up postsecondary education. Federal and state governments are deeply involved in the student loan market, either directly originating student loans or indirectly guaranteeing them. The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act, signed into law last year, ended private lending of federally subsidized loans, approved expansion of Pell Grants, and appropriated funds to invest in institutions that serve minority and low-income populations. Still, advocates for students clamor for more to be done to increase the availability of student loans. Further, state budget cutbacks to higher education amid tight fiscal circumstances may result in higher tuition.
In October 2011, President Obama announced executive actions to cap monthly federal student loan repayment at 10 percent of discretionary income for college graduates, eased from the previous 15 percent. This cap comes as some relief to those who worry about how they will pay back their debt. Moreover, student loan debts are typically shouldered by recent college graduates and other young workers, who tend to face lower incomes and higher rates of unemployment than older cohorts...
Source: http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2012/03/grading-student-loans.html
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Has something changed? I was of the understanding that student loans (similar to credit card, mortgage and auto loans) would be considered under this same "creditor" umbrella and not subject to SSI garnishment. Am I missing something and/or not understanding this correctly?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But the last link is a bit fuzzy and this stood out to me:
I have a vague recollection of reading about new laws covering garnishing SS a while ago. But I cannot remember the details, or if it had anything to do with Student Loans. I'm wondering if some law was passed that made it possible for the Government to garnish SS on behalf of some other entity, eg, a private loan corporation which received some kind of guarantee from the Government?
Thank you for doing all that work, I will try to find some info also. It seems incredible that older people already on SS are still saddled with these loans. I wonder if some of that has to do with high interest on those loans?
BrendaBrick
(1,296 posts)in addition to the terms of the loan. There is something called "Negative Amorization" aka NegAm which is used for home mortgages and maybe for student loans as well? I'm not sure how that works.
I agree with you, I'm a bit fuzzy on that statement too!
Here's one more piece of the puzzle. An alternet article by Ellen Brown (reprinted from Truthout.org) dated 5-13-2012:
Grandmothers' Social Security Garnished for Student Loans? Time to Fix the Broken Student Debt System
Congress has removed nearly every consumer protection from student loans, including bankruptcy protections, statutes of limitations and truth in lending requirements.
<snip>
I'm a 68 year old grandma of 2 young grandchildren. I went to college to upgrade my employment status in 1998 or 1999. I finished in 2000 and at that time had a student loan balance of about 3500.00.
Could not find a job and had to request forbearance to carry me. Over the years I forgot about the loan, dealt with poor health, had brain surgery in 2006 and the collection agents decided to collect for the loan in 2008.
At no time during the 6-7 year gap did anyone remind me or let me know that I could make a minimum payment on the loan. Now that I am on Social Security (have been since I was 62), they have decided to garnishee my SS check to the tune of 15%.
I have not been employed since 2004 and have the two dependents.... I don't dispute that I owed them the $3500.00 but am wondering why they let it build up to somewhere around $17,000/20,000 before they attempted to collect.
Her debt went from $3,500 to over $17,000 in ten years?! How could that be?
It seems that Congress has removed nearly every consumer protection from student loans, including not only standard bankruptcy protections, statutes of limitations and truth in lending requirements, but protection from usury (excessive interest). Lenders can vary the interest rates and some borrowers are reporting rates as high as 18-20 percent. At 20 percent, debt doubles in just three and a half years; and in seven years, it quadruples. Congress has also given lenders draconian collection powers to extort not just the original principal and interest on student loans, but huge sums in penalties, fees and collection costs. (bold = mine)
The majority of these debts are being imposed on young people, who have a potential 40 years of gainful employment ahead of them to pay the debt off. But a sizeable chunk of US student loan debt is held by senior citizens, many of whom are not only unemployed but unemployable. According to the New York Federal Reserve, two million US seniors age 60 and over have student loan debt, on which they owe a collective $36.5 billion; and 11.2 percent of this debt is in default. Almost a third of all student loan debt is held by people aged 40 and over and 4.2 percent is held by people over the age of 60. The total student debt is now over $1 trillion, more even than credit card debt. The sum is unsustainable and threatens to be the next debt tsunami.
<snip>
Congress cannot agree on $6 billion to save the students, yet they managed to agree in a matter of days in September 2008 to come up with $700 billion to save the banks; and the Federal Reserve found many trillions more. Estimates are that tuition could be provided free to students for a mere $30 billion annually. The government has the power to find $30 billion - or $300 billion or $3 trillion - in the same place the Federal Reserve found it: it can simply issue the money.
Entire article: http://www.alternet.org/story/155408/grandmothers%27_social_security_garnished_for_student_loans_time_to_fix_the_broken_student_debt_system?paging=off
Edited to add "Web of Debt" book link by the author of this article, Ellen Brown:
http://www.webofdebt.com/
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I remember reading about this a while ago and finding it to be simply outrageous. Especially that last part. Draconian is right!
And as pointed out in your post, Congress, who had no trouble imposing this terrible burden on ordinary people, including the elderly, had even less problem bailing out the Wall Street Gamblers with so few if any, conditions coming even close to those imposed on the people.
If anything demonstrates how broken this system is and who our elected officials are really working, this is a perfect example.
Her debt went from $3,500 to over $17,000 in ten years?! How could that be?
The word 'criminal' comes to mind. Excessive abusive interest rates should be ILLEGAL.
I don't know what can be done to end of all this, but until we have Representatives who are not beholden to the extortionists who seem to control so much of our government, things are not going to get better.
Thanks again for the research. Every person should have this information. Without massive outrage over these practices, there won't be any changes and people's lives will continue to be destroyed. There is a moral failure here. We have to ask 'what kind of country do we want to live in'. Maybe this IS it, but I don't think so.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)But if you do, the interest continues to run. In some arrangements the interest accrues and capitalizes, meaning it adds to the outstanding principal. It's not hard to see your debt spiral out of control if you go that way. I did for a little while but got it paid off as fast as I could.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)SS is an insurance policy. Just like home, auto, life, health, etc.--an insurance policy. We pay premiums and its there for when we need it. Just like home, auto, life, health, etc, insurance policies.
Why are monies from an insurance policy being garnished? It's not a wage or a salary--it's an insurance policy.
It doesn't make since...but it's making me mad!
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)At some point, somone has to be able to come get money that is owed. In the end, the borrower signed the paperwork to borrow all that money. If, at no point, anyone is allowed to collect that debt (forcefully if need be) then that encourages more people to flake out on their loans.
I do believe that if people take out student loans, they should be required to pay for them.
TBF
(32,056 posts)I'm sure they'll appreciate that thought after you've down-sized their jobs, taken their homes, and attached a lien to their Social Security. You know this system is only going to work for you until people are fed up. There are 99% of us and 1% of you. Keep that in mind.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)I'm not just going to flake off my responsibilities that I agreed to. I'm going to have to stick it out and pay off the debt. If I lose my job, I'll likely lose my house. If I fail to pay off my student loans before I retire... any income I recieve will likely be garnished.
I understand those terms and I won't complain about the consequences should it happen. That should be the nature of an agreement. And I believe that it's 100% ok to complain and protest about the circumstances that lead someone up to such situations... that's fine. But if your checks are being garnished because they failed to pay prior debts, all I can ask is, "Well what did you expect?"
TBF
(32,056 posts)Legally you are correct, morally you are bankrupt. There are many like you in this country and I expect nothing less with capitalism held up as a paragon of virtue. Eventually though conditions will come to the breaking point and then folks will finally come to their senses. I know which side I'm on, and I'm pretty sure I know which side you are on as well.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)But I want to borrow some anyway.
Send me an PM and we can work something out.
Thanks.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)100,000 percent interest. First payment equal to value lent+Interest for next month and due immediately. Everything you own is the collateral.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And what collateral? I don't have any since The Man took it from me.
TBF
(32,056 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)could be for the government to buy up the loan (ie pay people who are in debt up to a certain amount).
That way they now owe a debt to the government that could collect without interest.
Creditors get paid. Debtors get out of debt. And if done properly we get the money back at a later date.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)That is not what I think but what the uppers think of you.
Any rich person, bank, or corporation in your shoes would walk away and in doing so make sure they screwed their employees and pensioners in the process.
You have not even considered the folks who may have paid off the loan and are being skewered with the interest rates nor do you even consider that those who have lost their jobs simply can not pay this off.
So the sucker class of America should have no haven to secure just a paltry sum of money that is untouchable to ensure they don't starve but the vulture class should have systems that protect 100s of millions of dollars from any form of liability?
TBF
(32,056 posts)I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)leftstreet
(36,107 posts)TBF
(32,056 posts)BrendaBrick
(1,296 posts)Posted by bayareagirl
2:25 PM EST August 8, 2012
If the student loan companies, universities, cities or US government get into too much trouble with debts, they are allowed to file bankruptcy. But for the student loan borrower, since 2005 they are no longer allowed this option. This is wrong and this is what is going to add even more fuel to the fire of country already spinning out of control due to the housing crisis, medical costs, pensions, etc. Now you will have thousands of student loan borrowers with good educations who can no longer find employment due to outsourcing, cutbacks, etc. Even if they do find a job, they won't be able to start investing in a home, saving for retirement or their children's education because they are slaves to this debt. Take morality out of it, corporations and cities don't have to answer to morals when they file a legally allowed remedy of bankruptcy, so why judge individuals? A student loan debt is owed, for whatever reason the borrower can't pay, allow them to discharge it in bankruptcy so they can rebuild their lives and start investing in things that may just help the economy. Allow this for the social security recipients as well so they can actually afford food and medicine in their last years. This is crazy. People need to see the big picture and stop getting all judgy about others.
http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/grandmas-new-financial-problem-college-debt-1344292084111/#
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have to sign away their futures just to get one. I think colleges should not be paying over $300,000 to their administrators. And I think board members of colleges should have no Corporate ties I think they should all be educators.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)That is a RW talking point designed to cut funding to universities. Most European public Universities are FULLY PUBLICLY FUNDED. Here you are lucky if 25% of a 'public' University is publicly funded. And that percentage drops every year.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)of note, today's Doonesbury
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)if you want student loan reform the best way to put it on the ballot is to get old voters pissed off about it.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Maybe by the time I retire in 20 or 30 years assisted suicide will be legal.
Edit: adding...no, not joking, this will be the only viable path for alot of people.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Not in the slightest.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...or voluntary termination. Your choice.
Oh, and by the way, soylent green really is people.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)will be: a 9mm bullet in my right temple, and this lovely little factoid just confirms it. I figure I have 5-10 years before that day comes. Its not a big deal - I have no family and have been unemployed or working for subsistence wages for most of the last 20+ years. No, I am not kidding.
~hug~
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I am so enraged right now. I am so sick of the scoffing at the "purists" and the mocking when we talk about the lesser of two evils.
In a nation as wealthy as the US, what is being done to millions is nothing short of evil.
We need an urgent response; this is a crisis far greater than 9/11, and it is being minimized and enabled.
No one should be in this position. No one.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)These are moral issues. This is about what kind of government we will tolerate, and what kind of nation we want to be.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)78% of the US economy is consumer driven. This is maintained by baby boomers.
Guess what happens when Baby Boomer retire?
They stop spending.
The following generations are so saddled with student debt and poor job opportunities, they wont even make up a tenth of the spending needed for this economy.
There is no way the spending gap can be made up except alleviated somewhat by discharging the student debt.
Either way the Student debt reform has to come, after it destroys more lives of course.
NNN0LHI
(67,190 posts)I thought that was the way this was supposed to work but I may have this wrong.
Don
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)A risk to the economy?
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)she`s 59 and owes thousands for our son`s loans and for her`s.
my credit was so bad they would`t let me sign.
now that i'm 65 in can finish my community college degree for free ....