My Fox addicted neighbor said the woman Obama claims Romney killed didn't die until five

[doc03]

years after he left Bain and she also had insurance the whole time from her oun employer. She also said that Fox said Obama has spent a million dollars to keep
his Harvard records secret. These Fox people always come up with stuff like that, is it true or not?

[uponit7771]

1. All red herings to the point of the ad; rMoney fired someone, they lost their health care coverage..

...or ALL (cause I've had dual coverage also) and the person died.

Dual coverage can help pay non covered part of a bill the primary HCI doesn't cover

[janlyn]

2. so so

partly true..she did die 5 yrs after he was fired. but he did in fact lose his healthcare coverage.

[doc03]

4. Yes but did she have insurance from her employer the whole time? n/t

[B2G]

7. I have read that she had insurance until 2003

from her employer. So that much is true.

[pnwmom]

15. She lost it when she became too ill to work. If her husband still had his insurance

then that would have covered her. But he didn't, so then they had no insurance.

[B2G]

17. No, she lost her coverage in 2003

when she was laid off. She wasn't even diagnosed with cancer until 2006 when she was admitted to the hospital for pnemonia.

[pnwmom]

27. Okay, so they both lost insurance because of lay-offs. And we know who was responsible

for her husband getting laid off.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. And we know who's responsible for her layoff...

[Johonny]

3. Global warming is fake because Al Gore has a big house

that's about the size of this response. The Ad is about what really happened to people in companies Bain touches. Since the outcome that Bain destroys jobs can't be touched they attack the guy in the commercial. So the argument becomes about his dead wife instead of the real life consequences of Bain capital.

[doc03]

8. Yes but the ad implys she died because she didn't have health insurance. If she did have

insurance from her employer all along the ad is a lie. If you are going to make an acusation in an ad and it is false it makes us look like an ass when they prove you wrong.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. She didn't.

She lost it before she got sick. He lost his coverage previously due to Romney closing down the plant he worked at. He never regained coverage. Subsequently she had no coverage when she became sick with cancer.

[B2G]

11. Correction: He regained coverage for himself

But didn't add his wife to the plan because it was 'too expensive'.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. Thanks!

That's what I get for getting my facts from my daughter and not double checking them!

[Johonny]

23. your concern about the accuracy of the ad is noted

if you would like to attack any other people that lost their job due to Bain's business practice or if you feel their inner anger at the frustration of a world created by businesses like Bain where people make too little to get for profit health insurance and thus it is their fault when they die from medical decisions they make as a result go right ahead. I'm sure you'll make a lot of friends on Wall street.

[Tom Ripley]

37. +1,000,000

[RedStateLiberal]

5. Obama is not claiming Romney killed anybody.

That's just ridiculous.

The ad in question is not from the Obama campaign. It's from a PAC. It is illegal for the Obama campaign to coordinate with a that PAC.

The ad is about the man losing his health care coverage due to Bain/Romney killing his job. Yes, he mentions that his wife died (and it's true that it was 5 years after he lost coverage) but that's not the point of the ad.

Did he go too far by bringing up his dead wife? Yeah, probably but the manufactured outrage from the media on this is hypocritical because they won't hold Romney accountable for the many blatant lies he's been telling - even in ads from his own campaign - and definitley not ads from pro-Romney PACs. Why isn't Romney pressured to denounce the despicable birther ad from a conservative PAC?

The lie about Obama spending money to hide his records is from WND (World Nut Daily) and Donald Trump. 'Nuff said.

[DCKit]

6. She got her "facts" from Fox, and you're asking if it's true? You're funny! nt

[doc03]

14. It has been my experiance that sometimes what Fox says is correct, I have gotten burnt

quite a few times when I argued with someone about stuff like that and I turned out eating crow myself. Three out of four times they may be wrong but it always seems like when you call them on their bs it turns out they were right. So I pretty much take MSNBC and Fox with a grainof salt.

[Bandit]

19. Why do you include MSNBC

Have you caught them in LIES as well? I don't EVER watch Morning Joe, so I won't say for sure but I have NEVER caught MSNBC in any LIES during Keith, Rachel, Lawrence or Ed...Maybe you could elucidate for us.

[Kingofalldems]

22. Illuminating.

[HangOnKids]

41. This Comes As No Surprise To Me

How are you doin'?

[Kingofalldems]

42. Great thanks.

Gio is awesome.

[HangOnKids]

44. I Miss Him!

We played a hell of a game last night against the Angels.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. accidents happen.

It is certainly not their intention to keep you informed with actual facts. The facts, reality itself, are not conducive to the election of rightwing republican idiots.

[liberalmuse]

40. It's best to throw out everything that comes from Fox.

Trying to find truth there is like digging through a large pile of shit to find an m&m. It just isn't worth it!

[B2G]

10. Here's the way it went down

Soptic’s company went bankrupt in 2001. At that time, he was offered a buyout by Bain Capital, which he refused.

Soptic’s wife retained her own health insurance, provided by her employer, until 2003. She had a job at Savers Thrift Store at the time Joe Soptic was laid off and had her own health insurance.

He got another job six months later, working as a school custodian. He was offered the option of including his wife on his health insurance plan. He declined, because he said it was too expensive.

He suspected she was sick but she refused to go to the doctor.

Soptic’s wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2006, and tragically died only a few weeks later.

It's tragic, but the ad is very misleading, and now it's being questioned.
Not surprising in light of the charges.

[doc03]

16. So she could have had insurance but he took the bet and lost. How is that anyones

fault except his?

[B2G]

18. I have no idea

All I know is that making this ad was a giant cluster.

[Drunken Irishman]

33. Says who - you?

Give me a break. This is the exact type of ad that will kill Romney's campaign. I say go hard and go often with it.

[lolly]

47. Don'tknow--could be lots of peoples' fault

Starting with the insurance companies that were so hell-bent on making a huge profit that they were charging exorbitant prices for coverage.

You call failing to insure the wife "taking a bet." Maybe it was "deciding to pay for food and housing."

[progressivebydesign]

45. wow.. you seem to always have the republican talking points down. n/t

[dkf]

48. Shouldn't he have gotten decent benefits as a school custodian?

Isn't that at least a union job?

[sadbear]

12. When the hell did Romney actually leave Bain?

I still haven't figured that one out.

[Redford]

36. The American people want the truth

This ad, which was not done by President Obama but by a Pac, is misleading. Pull it. There are plenty of true stories out there to hang Romney on, I am sure.

[apnu]

20. Factcheck.org says the says the Priorities PAC ad is 'iffy' but your neighbor is still wrong.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/is-romney-to-blame-for-cancer-death/

However, your Fox addicted neighbor is wrong. She died 5 years after the plant closed.

[Ruby the Liberal]

21. You can start with Obama not saying any of that.

That was a Super PAC ad, not an OFA ad. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that.

This will surely be a great election season, with every pro-Obama PAC being "Obama himself said" and every anti-Obama PAC being "just concerned citizens".

[B2G]

24. Then he need to fire Stephanie Cutter

because she is out there saying they didn't know the Soptic's story and they did.

This. Ad. Sucks. We don't need this distraction.

[Drunken Irishman]

31. No. It. Doesn't. Keep hitting him on it.

[B2G]

25. How is that wrong?

The plant closed in 2001. She died in 2006. Worst case scenario is Romey left Bain in early 2002, but he joined the Olympic Committe in 1999.

Someone needs to reign these PACs in.

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. Like SCOTUS?

They are the ones who cut them loose with the caveat that they can't "coordinate messaging" with the campaigns (unless it is Rmoney and his people meeting behind closed doors in Aspen with Kkkarl Rove, but whose counting...).

Their whole thing is "supposed" to be only attacks AGAINST a candidate, not coordinating and/or working FOR a candidate. (like Hillary The Movie - released in 2007 by Citizens United - what kicked off the suit with the FEC, and the 2004 Swiftboating)

SCOTUS' Citizens United green light is going to make this election a political geek's dream, but for the general population (especially those in the swing states), it wouldn't surprise me if they got so disgusted they just stayed home on Nov 6th.

[Siwsan]

26. Having insurance doesn't protect you from losing everything

Especially before Affordable Care. High co-pays, denied claims, coverage limits can financially destroy a family.

[hedgehog]

29. He lost a good job with good insurance. He went back to work

at half pay. Some insurance policies are more money pits than they are good insurance policies; you pay $1000 a month for something with a high deductible and low limit coverage. Maybe they didn't have the cash for the co-pays - who knows? The fact is that the man had one life before Romney came to town, and a different life after.

[patrice]

32. Simple response PAC ads: "My name is Barack Obama and I approve this ad." Yes?/No? PERIOD.

[JoePhilly]

34. Romney's economic approach does not concern itsefl with such "details".

Romney bought companies, ensured Bain got paid huge management fees, and then when those companies had to shut down, oh well.

Romney and Bain made their money either way. If workers lost their jobs or health coverage as a result, who cares. Not Mitt's problem.

And if he becomes President, he will act as if he is the CEO of America, and we are all his employees.

[marew]

35. I believe that she had been ill and was getting progressively worse over time.

I thought I heard the gentleman interviewed and he said his had wife refused to go to the doctor because they had no insurance.
This man has a right to his opinion.

President Obama graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard Law School, where he also served as President of the Harvard Law Review. It appears Repubs and Fox don't know what Magna cum Laude means.

[Tom Ripley]

38. Maybe you have a contact high?

[Kalidurga]

39. "It appears Repubs and Fox don't know what Magna cum Laude means."

They think it is the title of a French porn flick. Nuff said.


I think it is in ill form to attack this man in the commercial. The fact is he lost his job, not in dispute. He lost his insurance also not in dispute. His wife died, again not in dispute. He got a job at half the pay of his former job, another fact.

So, I don't know what he ended up being paid at the other job. But, I would guess around 12 dollars an hour. I had a job like that a couple of years ago, before I went back to college. The insurance plan just for myself was about $250 dollars a pay check so a bit over $500 dollars a month. I don't know what the co-pays were or anything like that because the bottom line was with raising three kids I couldn't afford another $500 dollar a month bill. I am guessing that this man and his wife were struggling living with just his pay check after she lost her job. And it would have been very expensive to add her to his insurance, especially if they still had a mortgage and all the other bills that you accumulate when you have a higher paying job. I am sure they down-scaled quite a bit, but there is only so far you can go before you are living like a hermit.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Do we live near each other? Cuz my neighbor is just as batshit as yours... n/t

[Quantess]

46. Worst Thread Ever.

At the very least, the Worst Thread of the Entire Week.