The Silver Lining to the Trump Presidency

[louis c]

Last edited Thu Aug 30, 2018, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

First off, I know the dark side of this nightmare. I know we will have to live a generation or more with Trump's appointments to the courts. If it was my choice, we could have skipped this dark cloud. But, it's here, so I want to seek the silver lining.

I have an analogy. Now, I know it's not an exact analogy, but it's as close as I can get. When I was a little boy (I was born in 1952) there was a huge fear about childhood polio. I had a friend whose older brother was handicapped by the disease. I was just at the age that the polio vaccine was administered to young children. I remember my parents discussing the idea of giving just a little bit of polio to your child that resulted in building up the anti-bodies and preventing your child from ever getting polio. A tough sell in the beginning and a lot of worried parents in the beginning. But, I digress.

As dark as these days are, our nation has survived worse. But, Americans never thought we could ever experience an authoritarian dictator. Not in this country. But, we are painfully learning that a lot of our freedoms are not laws, but norms and customs. We are learning much of what we have taken for granted are not set in stone. A presidential candidate doesn't have to release his tax returns. A president can pardon who he wants for any reason, including protecting himself. He can fire individuals because they are investigating him, or not investigating his political enemies. He can attack our norms, such as press freedom. He can insult an average citizen for disagreeing with him. He can pardon witnesses who have evidence of his criminal behavior. That the conflict of interest laws apply to everyone in federal government except him (I never knew that until this presidency). Although as much as 40% of America has bought into this disease, that leaves 60% that hasn't, and we're the ant-bodies. We're the cure.

So, back to the analogy. Just as my parents worried about my getting "a little bit of polio" in order to protect me from that disease for the rest of my life, I think the Trump Presidency has accomplished the same thing in the body politic. I believe we will be rid of this disease, either by Trump's resignation, impeachment or his defeat in 2020. I believe by 2022, at the latest, new laws will be put in place so this can never happen again.

[Meadowoak]

1. If the election were held tomorrow, half of the country would vote for trump again.

[louis c]

2. You are wrong

He didn't even get half last time.

I am always skeptical of a low post, 3 month member, non-donator negative comment. I factor that in how much credibility I give your negative opinion.

[erronis]

33. I have seen great wisdom from new members, but "meadowoak" did not post anything helpful.

[louis c]

41. I agree

I never said that new posters can't be brilliant. I just said that I start out skeptical until they prove otherwise to me.

When a newbie tells me that Trump would get half the vote tomorrow, that raises my suspensions.

[sandensea]

53. He'd get 40% - but Putin's hackers would concoct the other 10%.

This is why the GOPee are so fond of electronic voting and tabulation - especially if provided by openly Rethug contractors.

[louis c]

58. I really understand your point, but your posts and posts like them...

...discourage our side from voting. If 40% of the voters are against us and a Russian hack puts them over the top, what's the point of us voting? I don't believe for a moment that the actual votes are fixed. If I did, I wouldn't spend 20 hours a week registering voters or being involved in GOTV.

I hope you will reconsider these types of posts as they damage our ability to convince people that their vote counts and that they can make a difference.

[sandensea]

59. Nevertheless, it's there.

Whatever misgivings we may have against discussing it, vote hacking and flipping is all too real - and we had better face it head on, or the GOPee will continue stealing election after election.

What's worse, they - and the media - will continue to pretend that eveything's normal, that there's nothing to see here.

That's the very worst thing that could happen, and exactly what the GOP and its bankrollers want. They want to make a habit out of electoral fraud, and even normalize it.

This needs to be front and center in any current political discussion; it needs to be common knowledge. Only then will we have a good chance of preventing it in the future.

[louis c]

60. Then please tell me why I should vote and get others to vote

First off, and I didn't want to get into this with you, but I'm afraid I must, what proof do you have that any votes in any state were changed in any election.

If you don't have that proof (and I'm talking proof, not conjecture) you are peddling nothing more than the same conspiracy theories that the other side does on other issues. And you're helping to do their dirty work in suppressing Democratic and Progressive votes.

Your post is more effective for the other side than any Alex Jones infowars stuff could ever be.

If you really believe this Russian bot crap you are spewing here, please tell me why I should vote if elections are fixed, anyway?

Please don't tell me why or how it's fixed. You are convinced it's fixed. Tell me why I should vote, then?

[sandensea]

61. One should as a duty - just as acknowledging public problems is a civic duty.

And what bigger risk to our democracy, than the prospect of having election results hijacked by a hostile foreign power (which only wants the worst people to govern in the U.S.) or anyone.

As far as hard proof that vote results have been altered on past occasions, there have certainly been numerous documented cases.

Here are a few recent ones: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

Then of course there was Ohio in '04 (where it all began). Ken "black box" Blackwell, SmarTech, the Spoonamore testimony, and the late Michael Connell.

There are many other such cases - here and and in other countries.

Isolated incidents? Perhaps - but in all likelihood (and as in most organized crime) just the tip of the iceberg, considering how easy it is to tamper with many of these devices.

How easy? Just ask Obama's DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson: https://soapboxie.com/us-politics/DHS-Confirms-That-Optical-Scan-Vote-Counting-Machines-Easily-Hacked-By-Russians-or-Otherwise

I don't need to remind you, surely, that when it comes to Putin, you make a crime possible, you make it inevitable.

You want to make sure, as I do, that one's vote actually counts as intended? Don't insist on being among those who deny there's a real threat to their being duly counted. As with anything, that won't make it go away.

All the Best.

[louis c]

65. I've known those facts for years, it's the approach that counts

I can understand that we should strive for the utmost integrity in our electoral system. I think that the way to put it is that we should have a voting system that has paper back up and is not connected to an outside source. We should never, ever imply that elections are fixed, but always strive to reinforce the integrity of the system.

The Russian bots targeted our voters with misinformation on voting locations, voting times, voting eligibility and that your votes don't matter because the election is fixed anyway. Those emails were targeted to our voters.

By saying that the elections are fixed. The other side will get 40% and then fudge the last 10% depresses our vote. We're doing their work for them. We should never, ever give anyone on our side an excuse to stay home or not register.

[sandensea]

66. I hear you - but the risk of denying the problem is far greater.

We know that not only have they found ways into the voting sotware; but also that vote totals can be altered without a trace - just as designed.

As for the chance that having this become common knowledge (it already practically is) might depress turnout, you'd surprised.

Experience shows that once people know their vote is being taken away, they actually turn out in greater numbers than they would otherwise.

That's how Roy Cooper was elected in NC, for example: McCrory made it so obvious that the goal was nothing short of outright disenfranchisement, his potential victims (and white voters of good will) turned out en masse.

That's what the GOPee doesn't want: for people to be motivated by the urgency of the situation. And urgent it is.

[louis c]

67. There is no need to fix an election if people can convince our side their votes don't count

And, as a long time (decades) volunteer in the Democratic party and as a union political organizer (as part of my job), it has been my experience that once you give a reluctant voter a reason not to vote, they won't vote.

Please stop doing the other side's work for them.

[Sherman A1]

63. I don't believe that he would get half, however I do believe he would win

And I expect him to win in 2020 should he run.

Sorry I don’t have a low post count for you to dismiss.

[renate]

8. it's scary how nearly half of the country has been loyal to him

He is SUCH an embarrassment.

I've learned a lot about my fellow citizens that I really did not want to know. It's upsetting to see how many people will blindly follow someone like him, not despite, but because of, the fact that he's rude and racist.

[louis c]

10. 37% to 40% is not half

That's always the case. Nixon had that right up to the three months before he resigned.

[Meadowoak]

11. Exactly

[louis c]

12. Could we please stop thinking 37% is half

unless you're going to quote Rasmussen's phony numbers, like Drudge does.

[Meadowoak]

18. It's half of the people that vote. I know there are a lot more Dems, but unfortunately they don't

Vote As reliably as the repukes do.

[louis c]

21. You don't know what you're talking about

2016 was an aberration. In 2018, when you see the vote, then you can talk. Trump LOST by 3 million votes at his most popular, with the Democrats the most divided, with the Comey letter 10 days before the election, with the illegal release of Russian hacked emails and bots.

That's not the norm and it won't ever, ever happen again.

As much as you try to demoralize people on this site, DUers are far to smart to fall for it.

[OMGWTF]

24. Trump actually lost by 10 million votes if you count third-party candidates.

[louis c]

28. I don't count them

That's like saying Bill Clinton lost by 20 million or something because of Perot.

that wouldn't be fair. I only count first and second place.

[DownriverDem]

38. trump & the repubs

have the rich, haters and religious nuts. There is no reasoning with them either.

[Girard442]

3. I applaud your optimism, but we aren't getting "a little bit of fascism" from Trump.

To countinue your disease analogy, the country is bedridden, running a scarily high fever, and organs are compromised and threatening to shut down.

[louis c]

6. Come on, this "patient"

has survived a civil war, two world wars and a depression. I was 16 years old in 1968 and 21 years old during Watergate and these days pale by comparison.

[Girard442]

13. Over 600,000 people didn't survive the Civil War.

If the same percentage of the population died today, that would be around six million. Not something to be sanguine about.

[louis c]

15. But the country survived that conflagration and so I assume you agree

that today's problems are no where near the problems the country has survived in the past.

[OMGWTF]

26. We aren't finished with this Trump nightmare so who knows what fresh Hells await?

[louis c]

29. Let's not try to enter the twilight zone

It's scary enough as it is.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. True only if the enabling & protecting are called out, and if Mueller et al make COMPLETE report. nt

[renate]

5. if democracy survives (and I don't think I'm being dramatic), I agree with you

I wish we could see two or three years into the future to find out whether we'll be living under Russian-style leadership or whether we'll have returned to normal. Because right now it really seems like it could go either way... not because most Americans will have fallen for what Trump is doing, but because I get nervous about Russia interfering in election after election.

If we do return to normal, I agree with your post. We've learned a lot because of this administration. I would never, ever, ever have guessed that the person whose behavior really should be above reproach is actually the one and only person who is, apparently, above the law.

[louis c]

7. We don't need to see into the future, we can look back to the past

We've survived worst and came out the better for it.

[peggysue2]

22. You're right, Louis

Our past is always a yardstick to measure the moment, even in this debacle. Things are bad but despair wallowing is self-defeating. We've survived other dark and destructive passages in our history and we will survive this, hopefully coming out the other side smarter and stronger and with a renewed sense of self-awareness. No one thought a creature such as the Trumpster could be installed into the People's House. But now that it's happened through propaganda, fraud and deceit, we know we're susceptible to the same menacing forces that have rattled other places in the world.

We have been forewarned by experience now.

Never forget. Never forgive.

[jalan48]

9. Democrats should gain because of Trump, which is great. The downside for me is that he makes

Reagan and Bush Republicans look reasonable.

[dchill]

30. He only makes them SEEM less evil, for he has no stealth...

No ability to take sincerity.

[lunatica]

14. I agree with you

It’s already starting. Elizabeth Warren has introduced a bill that covers a lot of these issues you stated by making them laws. I saw her on Lawrence O’Donnell last night. It would require by law that all people running for higher office submit years of tax returns, as well as all the examples you give. If they don’t then they can’t run for higher office.

It will probably take a Democratic majority and many attempts and revisions, but it’s out there right now. Trump has shown us the weaknesses of our Democracy. When he’s gone it will be the perfect opportunity to fix these loopholes. I don’t think simply restoring what we had before Trump is enough. That’s actually been what he’s done with his Make America Great Again actions. If we don’t make a conscious attempt to keep it from happening again it’s guaranteed another Trump will come along. If we don’t learn this lesson now it will repeat itself again and we will cease to be a true Democracy.

We need to think forward to make the potential for true strength and progressive possibilities happen. That should be the next evolutionary step in our history. If we allow Trump’s vision of our country to take over we will die like every other past powerful country has. This is a truly golden moment in our country’s history. A true fork in the road to choose from. I know which path I want to continue on.

[Ponietz]

16. It is all about enforcement of the rule of law, now

If the law holds firm I believe the chance our democracy survives is good. I believed, for 25 years, we needed a constitutional amendment stating that corporations are not people and money is not speech. I’ve watched and supported senators and congressmen that introduce such legislation each year since then with meager results. Then, Citizen’s United in 2010, and the problems became exponentially worse. Senator Warren’s proposals are fresh air to me, and I respect and laud her efforts.

[FreepFryer]

17. Agree 1000%. (n/t)

[niyad]

19. assuming we survive that long!! remember, this is the clueless fuckhead during the campaign, "we

have nukes, why don't we use them?"

[SWBTATTReg]

20. Well written. I think that this so called president has started a lot of things in the background..

going. Never again will such a scumbag person ever occupy this office, created by the blood and sweat of our esteemed forefathers. Abuses profligate right and left, and I suspect that we're yet to see the true and full extent of the abuses of this administration.

I hope that rump's name comes to mean gross incompetence and gross and traitorous mismanagement as much as Benedict Arnold's name does. I got a feeling that his name isn't going to mean much in the future, being that all of his businesses are suffering, and everyone is running away from being associated w/ the rump name...

[mac56]

23. Brilliant.

Sharing.

[The Liberal Lion]

25. I appreciate your optimism

but I think the patient is far sicker than implied in your text. I think when the Democrats take back the house the beginning of the treatment will start, but the likelihood for cure is low. We were a very sick country prior to trump, and even prior to Obama. Hell perhaps even prior to Bush, but it was with Bush that the sickness became evident. What I see is Democrats retaking the House, but in the two years until the next election we are going to see stagnation. There will be investigations out the wazoo, where no convictions can take place. We will find the corrupt GOP fighting like hell to not only retain power but to avoid being exposed of traitors. They will rally their base in ways we have never seen before. Although in control of the House and therefore the purse strings, Democrats will still lack the power to restore order. I praise those who are optimistic, and it is my hope that you and others like you are right. I, for one, just don't see a near term rosy outcome. Whether the United States disintegrates I don't know, but at this point I don't see how we are to be United once more. It would take one hell of a leader or one hell of a catastrophe for that to happen in my opinion, and right now I don't see the leadership to make it possible.

[louis c]

32. You are too pessimistic

America has always risen to the occasion, and it will once more.

[cab67]

42. yeah, but will it remember?

One would think Vietnam would have prevented Iraq, or that Watergate would have prevented the S&L scandal or Iran-Contra. They didn't. The Great Depression didn't stop some people from forgetting why certain federal regulations were put into place; nor did it prevent the surprise they felt when, after lifting some of these regulations, we ended up with the Great Recession.

[louis c]

45. Maybe not

Maybe every generation or two has live through their own difficult times. But, each time we learn. WWII created NATO. The depression created Social Security. Jim Crow Laws lead to riots which lead to the civil rights act and the voting rights act. We learn, we grow and we need to learn some more. That's what makes this a great country. My mother is still alive and we talk history a lot. History we lived. She has stories of the depression and WWII. We talk about Kennedy and 1968. Watergate and such. Between the two of us, we have lived the entire history of the past 90 years. That's some remembering.

[DinahMoeHum]

27. It's about more people being less passive. . .

. . .about the current state of things in politics - they've gotten off their rear-ends and are actually doing something and making things happen, starting with their local governments.

[Afromania]

31. The Great Debugging of Democracy

[Martin Eden]

34. "new laws will be put in place so this can never happen again"

What laws would that be?

Can we legislate against lies and against the stupidity of people who believe the lies -- and who vote for lying would-be dictators?

[louis c]

37. Here are the laws I anticipate

(1). Every Presidential candidate must disclose at least the past 7 years of his or her tax returns to the public.

(2). The President of the United States will be subject to the same conflict of interest laws as every cabinet member.

(3). The appointment of the Attorney General and Assistant Attorney General will run concurrent with the Presidential term and he or she cannot be removed except for just cause.

(4). The Director of the FBI shall have a term of 10 years (current term) and cannot be removed, except for just cause.

(5). Any vacancy occurring in the FBI or the Justice Department must be filled only after confirmation of the Senate. There shall be no emergency or recess appointments to these positions. In the event of a vacancy, the succession order within the department shall prevail until a permanent replacement is appointed and confirmed.

(6). The President or his press secretary is required to provide a press conference no less than once a week and must include the 10 newspapers with the highest circulation and the top 5 networks in TV viewership. All others can be credentialed by the president's staff.

How's those for starters?

[katmondoo]

51. Add, war only with Congressional appoval, as use to be.

[Martin Eden]

56. Pretty good, except does #5 apply to ALL employees?

That would get way too granular in organizations that large. Managers woukd be handcuffed filling vacancies in the rank & file and running all positions past the Senate could make the hiring process MORE rather than less political.

Your suggested set of laws would address some of the corruption and abuse of power. The executive definitely needs more checks & balances.

[louis c]

57. Well, no. It would be only traditional presidential appointees, but...

...no one can be terminated without just cause at any level. I believe that's civil service protection anyway.

Remember, I just slapped this together as a response in this thread. It's only suggestions as a broad outline of a some draft, but it makes my point.

[cab67]

35. I used to think as you did.

That was my hope in 2004 - that by the end of the Bush Jr. administration, he'd have fouled things up so badly that no one even remotely like him would ever be elected president again. And it really did look like it worked - he was deeply unpopular when he left, and it opened the door to Barack Obama.

My false belief was shattered in November of 2016. We Americans do tend to get smart after a bad president, but we also tend to forget the lesson very quickly.

[MarvinGardens]

36. Thank you, great post! (nt)

[njhoneybadger]

39. Yes, We should be glad tRump is so stupid.

An intelligent strategic version of tRump could have pulled it off.

[grantcart]

40. Its a good analogy

[world wide wally]

43. Perfect analogy and a bumper sticker...

"Trump is polio...We are the vaccine"

[louis c]

47. Well, how about "Trump is the disease, we are the vaccine"

[Hermit-The-Prog]

55. TrumPutin is the disease -- we need YOU to be the vaccine!

VOTE D.

[AlexSFCA]

44. I thought about it too

what we know about America so far is what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. If we overcome trump, then our best days may lie ahead. What I think is entirely possible if we take over congress is national voter legislation that will mandate all state automatic voter registration, will make election day a national federal holiday and option of voting by mail. This will change the course of this country and will make us more united because the government would become truly representative. And this is something that the vast majority including gop voters would agree and is in the spirit of US constitution and it means to be an American. It’s not some divisive issue, it is a uniting issue. The electoral college we may have to live with but most people in all states are decent and when everyone votes, another trump is not gonna happen.

[Butterflylady]

46. Amen to new laws!!!!

We must definitely have some kind of accountability to in place that this never, never happens again.

[Moostache]

48. The GOP presidents in my lifetime are ALL hideous creatures in one regard or many...

Nixon .... Watergate
Reagan ... Iran-Contra, dozens of criminals in his cabinet, completely incapacitated by the time he left office
Bush the Elder ... Iraq War I (bungled the peace)
Bush the Lesser ... Iraq War II (bungled EVERYTHING), Afghanistan War (see Iraq War II), asleep at the switch for 9/11
Trump? Pick a day for fuck's sake...he is the first existential disaster-a-day president in history

What a collection of asshats, fools and evil little bitches. I hope there is a special circle of hell for each one of them...

[louis c]

49. There's a big difference between a bad president and a would be dictator

[PatSeg]

50. I've had similar feelings about what is going on now

Also, I think this will be an opportunity to purge our government of the people who have fought progressive change, while serving their corporate overlords. As long as they are still there, it will be one step forward, one or two steps backwards. Just imagine what Obama could have accomplished if he had a reasonable congress to work with.

No matter how many forward thinking, progressive presidents we elect in the future, if we don't eliminate the corporate control of our government, most changes will be inconsequential and ineffective in the long run. Meanwhile, most of our government agencies have revolving doors to the industries they are tasked with overseeing.

Then we need to turn some traditions and protocols into laws. No president should ever have this kind of power again.

[patricia92243]

52. Very good post. I think you are right - things that are norms and customs will be put into

law - especially for the POTUS.

[summer_in_TX]

54. I hope and pray you are right.

I'm cautiously optimistic that we will make it through and this terrible experill serve to inoculate us. All of the suggested areas for laws are good ones. I think we also need to look at media policy and propaganda.

I'd like to see a modern-day Hutchins Commission set up, as was done at the end of WWII. It hammered out recommendations for media policy, and one of it's goals was to prevent propaganda. While imperfect, it led to the Blue Paper that led to the Fairness Doctrine.

Having studies how the Fairness Doctrine, which had been upheld unanimously by the Supreme Court in 1969 (FCC v. Red Lion), was undermined and killed, I am not sure it can be resuscitated (especially with the constant propaganda against it by FOXNews). However, a highly respected, diverse blue ribbon commission could make recommendations that might help us enact legislation to end the systematic propaganda that so many Americans have been subjected to over the last 20-odd years.

My wish-list includes:
• Dedicated funding untouchable by Congress for public media.
• Greatly strengthened public media.
• Legislation making it illegal for broadcasters carrying news and public affairs (whether using the public airwaves or on cable or internet) from knowingly lying or omitting the truth.
• At a minimum, infotainment would be required to state at the beginning and end (and longer shows at other times as well) that the show is entertainment and as such may legally contain fiction, speculation, and may utilize untruth as part of its "entertainment."
• Infotainment could not be carried on stations or during programs containing News (or anything implying the content was true) in the name.
• Requirements that broadcasters have to provide equal time to those attacked.
• Requirements that equal time and an equal number of voices be broadcast on each side of issues of public importance on all radio or TV stations, and that equal time is defined to mean during times when the audience size is equivalent.
• Curricula requirements students grades K-12 be taught to detect and recognize techniques used to manipulate public opinion taught by highly-skilled educators - and that such curricula requirements be mandated to continue into perpetuity.
• Hate speech and incitements to violence might no longer be entitled to receive full first amendment protections (similar to what Germany put in place since WWII).
• No organization that paid for issue advertising or other political advertising could keep donors' identities secret or the amount given
• Social media companies such as Facebook would be considered publishers and so regulated, while video content might fall under broadcast provisions.

At least, I'd like to see a really indepth, high-level study and debate of each of these items among thinkers who also demonstrate a commitment to the ideals of democracy. I recognize there are constitutional issues and abridgment of certain freedoms. Maybe I'd conclude at the end of the debate that some of the above goes too far, but I believe unless we solve the propaganda problem our current media policy poses to democracy, our ability to sustain a healthy democratic republic is unlikely long-term.

[Chemisse]

62. I really hope you are right. But first we have to survive this disaster.

My biggest fear is that we go all the way into a fascist state and can't get back out.

As to your analogy: I was born in 1954, so I know about the dark shadow the fear of polio cast over our childhoods, even as it was eradicated via the vaccine.

And I'd say the Sarah Palin phenomenon was a "little bit of polio". But we were not vaccinated. Trump is the full-blown disease. Let's hope we are not paralyzed for life.

[proglib217]

64. I'm sorry

I don't see any silver lining to the presidency of the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.