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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTPM - Marshall - "Tough, Dark Times Ahead"
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tough-dark-times-aheadBy Josh Marshall
August 30, 2018 12:38 pm
I want to return to a point I made indirectly yesterday. I want to make it more directly. Were heading toward a genuine constitutional crisis with the President. Constitutional crisis is sort of a meaningless word. But let me try to give it more specific meaning: a threat to the rule of law and adherence to the constitution which the constitution itself does not provide a ready to solution to, not under present political circumstances.
The President is getting rid of staunch right-wing ideologues because they will not allow him whatever their other faults to prevent the rule of law to applying to him and his family. To use a analogy, theyll help him with his misdemeanors but so far at least not with his felonies. Thats what the laying the groundwork to fire Jeff Sessions is about. Thats what the firing of Don McGahn is about. When your boss announces you are leaving and you didnt know you were leaving, thats called being fired. Even the inability to state this obvious fact is a symptom of a larger problem: since theres no apparent solution to the Presidents push to make himself invulnerable to the law, we prefer not to say what is happening.
We dont know the precise order of events. But the President is apparently intent on pardoning Paul Manafort something that even by Trumpian standards has no real justification other than obstructing justice and either ending Robert Muellers investigation or putting it under the control of a loyalist who will defang it.
This is happening before our eyes. Theres as yet no apparent path by which any of this will be prevented. The one partial path, which is political in nature as it should be, is if the House of Representatives moves to Democratic control in January. The issue isnt impeachment. For my part, I think the discussion of this misses the point and is largely a distraction. Its not that impeachment isnt justified or is too radical. By any reasonable measure, Trumps erratic behavior alone would have merited his removal from office months ago. The key is oversight and investigation: of the countless threads of post-2016 corruption but particularly the Russia investigation.
Everything weve seen about the Mueller probe suggests that he is conducting exactly the kind of professional, highly confidential investigation anyone should want. But the key for the country is not just that people who have committed crimes should be punished. An even higher goal is that the country know what happened, whatever it is that happened. That is something that congressional investigations can do and Special Counsels can only do to a very limited extent. Ideally the two processes coordinate and work in tandem, allowing each to fulfill their critical role without undermining the other.
As I noted recently, if we look at the totality of the Special Counsels investigation it seems very likely that there are things the investigators know about Manaforts activities that can never be made public in a courtroom. They are likely inadmissible and even if they were admissible would involve jeopardizing intelligence sources. The most plausible logic of all the charges that have been brought against Manafort is that they want him to admit what they know to be true based on highly classified information that cannot be presented in a courtroom. That is why President Trump is so intent on pardoning him.
Trump appears to know he cannot let the Special Counsels investigation continue, not in its present form, not without risking his presidency, his wealth and perhaps his freedom. For now, theres no reason to think anyone will stop him. Republicans are becoming more accommodating rather than less in helping him to do so. The check will be a Democratic congress which can not only investigate but conduct a largely public investigation.
Were in for dark and challenging months ahead.
Meadowoak
(5,550 posts)FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)That's decades off - an entire generation of brainwashed fools needs to pass away.
This country has gangrene, or a MRSA.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)Our country may never recover from the damage thats already been done, let alone whats ahead.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,492 posts)Trump is just a face that's been put on a disease we've been infected with for a very long time.....
Farmer-Rick
(10,183 posts)We can't let them ride off into the sunset (like W and Cheney, Nixon and Raygun) and Not be held accountable. Otherwise next time around, the mobsters and criminals will be much worse. They get worse each time they get away with it.
We have to punish them to stop them.
Wednesdays
(17,380 posts)Are you okay with that?
Farmer-Rick
(10,183 posts)The Republicons did it to Clinton. And then went on to get W elected then W went on to spy on Americans illegally and torture POWs. So, the Impeachment helped the GOP in the long run.
If we impeach right before Trump runs for his 2nd term, all his crimes will be on display. Unlike when Clinton was impeached, we should not wait for his 2nd term to take action. A 2nd term of this criminal ....a lame duck president that can do most anything, will wipe out what remains of our democracy.
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)Trump is going to move to end the Rule of Law, it's going to happen soon, and the GOP will make some McCain-like noises and do nothing.
November 2018 is the crux upon which our Democracy turns.
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)Now, if we can just get the message out there in a strong, ongoing and intelligent manner, maybe we can turn the tide.
kentuck
(111,101 posts)The only reason he would pardon Manafort is because Manafort has incriminating information on him. He doesn't want everyone to know that his wealth and fortune are directly connected to the Russians and money-laundering.
alwaysinasnit
(5,066 posts)federal crimes), he can still be made to testify against others. In accepting a pardon, Manafort would no longer be able to claim a 5th Amend right against self-incrimination.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,840 posts)Plus, presidential pardons don't protect one from state-level action.
ffr
(22,670 posts)His brand would have been tarnished had he not illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power as a candidate. As an illegitimate president, he's incapable of unifying the nation. He's toast. Just, this way he's been able to prolong the corruption.
erronis
(15,290 posts)They all love a gangsta, right? If not, too bad for them.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I can see not running on impeachment. But, IF Democrats take over the House, I can already predict that Pelosi will say something like, "Impeachment is not our priority, but thoroughly investigating the apparent corruption in and around the White House is our first order of business. If the results of our hearings and investigations warrants impeachment, we will address that issue at that time."
I think the corruption and treason are so deep that they will have no choice.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)..didn't Schumer just fast track FIFTEEN Rethuglican judicial nominations? Democrats should be fighting tooth and nail for as long as it takes to stall ANYTHING those freaks want to do, and judges are IN FOR LIFE, they'll be making heinous right wing decisions for decades.
I'm not convinced our current leaders actually have the will to fight, going up against right wingers you have to fight all day, every day against EVERYTHING, because that's what they do to us.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,492 posts)I think it's the plutocrats with their massive wealth and influence that they know they can't fight - and few of those people are visible to us. Political leaders know who they are and are scared shitless of them. I would suspect the plutocrats constantly threaten them with harm to our economy if they're exposed or limited by regulation.
If there's one thing I'd like to see our leaders do, it is to begin exposing the massive web of invisible wealthy people (on-shore and off-shore) that think they have the right to control our lives, our thinking and our government.
Our citizens need to know and understand..... .......
Wednesdays
(17,380 posts)Even IF the Democrats win majority of the senate, we'd need a dozen or so Republicans to turn against tRump to remove him. Under the most ideal conditions, we'd get three at most.
Farmer-Rick
(10,183 posts)Impeachment didn't really hurt Republicons when they failed to convict Clinton. W got elected and was able to trample the constitution and destroy the economy without much restraint. It was a win for the GOP.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)getagrip_already
(14,764 posts)Once there is a special counsel report, or once it is clear that unconstitutional means have been used to prevent one, that is the time to strike. I think every dem leader agrees with that.
What isn't a good idea is just forcing a vote now. It will ultimately fail while providing inoculation.
We get one bite at the apple. It better be ripe.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,123 posts)Pretty good analogy.
certainot
(9,090 posts)without challenge
turn on limbaugh and he's in total denial - it's all a deep state plot v trump, all made up, and in any emergency when the power goes out that's what comes in clear. americans are really irresponsible about that - the dem party and progressive orgs especially - they have the resources to monitor, protest, boycott con talk radio
maybe limbaugh's worried mueller's going to find out trump and putin pay him for freelance work
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)I agree, it is insidious - because we all know how propaganda - how repeated lies and hate - impacts people.
Initech
(100,080 posts)How do you properly address a president who knowingly colluded with a hostile foreign power to win an election? And he repeatedly denies it despite that there's new evidence every day! It's so fucked up!
druidity33
(6,446 posts)and I'd rather not do any policing, but I like both TPM and DU. Probably best if you just post the 3 paragraphs allowed by copyright rules. It's good you got the link right up top though.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)We are where we have not been before. Democrats better take back at least the House and hope January 2019 is not too late for the save.
Trump is evil and stupid and the idea that most of his party is allowing this to continue is more than troubling.
20+ years of incessant right wing talk on TV and radio has changed the brains of millions turning them into useful tools.
I am not so sure of whats ahead even when were rid of that idiot masquerading as President ...we seem to be divided into right wing drones railing against libtards and what they call political correctness......and the rest of us. I mean millions believe that that 5 years olds being shot and killed at Sandy Hook was a false flag operation and their grieving parents are actors. That is frightening.