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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBillie Jean King: "Thank you Serena Williams for calling out double standard-More voices needed..."
@BillieJeanKing
(2/2) When a woman is emotional, shes hysterical and shes penalized for it. When a man does the same, hes outspoken & and there are no repercussions. Thank you, @serenawilliams, for calling out this double standard. More voices are needed to do the same.
7:21 PM - 8 Sep 2018
Link to tweet
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/billie-jean-king-says-serena-williams-penalized-at-us-open-due-double-standard-1141355
janterry
(4,429 posts)if the coach hadn't said that he coached every point. Since he does that regularly, it's pretty clear that Serena knows that. And, even if she didn't -
what will she say about that?
It seems to me that this is the most honest place to start.
brush
(53,833 posts)and they should stop the hypocrisy of selective punishment.
He also said that he was so far away that Serena could've even see him. Pam Shriver and Chris Elliot both back that up.
On ESPN this morning they showed four incidents at the US Open where Serena has been unfairly treated, one where the Tennis governing body apologized to Serena as the video clearly showed balls from her opponent to be clearly out but she lost the point and eventually the match.
Something is up when this happens to an American player over and over and over at the US Open. You'd think an American would get more favorable treatment at America's premier tennis event. But she black and a woman so...
malaise
(269,157 posts)abusing umps.
The gender bias is real.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Serena was warned, according to the rules, then the rest was just her inability to control her temper.
Meanwhile her opponent, cool as a cucumber. I admire her more than I feel sorry for Serena.
And for someone to say it is OK to smash racquets is on a slippery slope indeed...how about throwing into the audience, towards a linesman, smashing the net, etc, etc.
The rules are for a reason. Fair warning given...and the coaching was apparently every point...every point!
malaise
(269,157 posts)abusing umps. The umpire created this mess. I also don't know how you saw her coach coaching every point, particularly when she is one of the few players who does not have her coach on court. I saw her look at the box one time during the lead up.
The truth is all coaches do it and it's ridiculous to punish players for things coaches do.
Where we agree is that she should not have smashed the racquet or called him a thief although male players do it all the time.
I do notice that the Serena haters are out in numbers.
Does she have a temper and passion for her sport - yep that's why she's the best player of all time with nine more grand slam trophies than every American player, male or female.
On the other hand, I'm old school when it comes to smashing things and abusing officials. I would make my comments after the match. I've never had that sort of passion or desire for winning anything.
Earlier in the tournament Alize Cornet was sanctioned for exposing her sports bra when. She returned from a shower break and realized her jersey was back to front. Male players take off their jerseys with impunity. Further after scoring a World Cup goal, Brandi Chastain took off her jersey to celebrate her goal way back in 1999.
There are different standards for men and women and those condemning the double standards are correct.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Or smashed the ball into a pancake? Same thing!
Maybe the males will take notice now and not ham it up for the crowd and their social media exposure and sponsors so much.
Fair Play! FIFA motto.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)bad behaviour is not my cuppa!
So there should be one standard...follow the rules, and have the referees consistently enforce them.
But was using the tennis court of the final of the US Open the best place to open the debate?
malaise
(269,157 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)Peace
MiniMe
(21,718 posts)"The referees consistently enforce them". Actually, they don't. Even the commentators were saying that coaching happens in every match, and is rarely called. Oksana's coach was coaching her too, the ref didn't mention that or penalize her for it. And going back to McEnroe, Conners, and many other men who have yelled at refs and called them names, they almost never got penalized for it.
Oksana played a great match, and I have a lot of respect for her for her play, and for her ability to focus on the match rather than all the confusion and booing. Nothing should take anything away from Oksana's play.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,362 posts)She just went back to playing tennis. She can be a head case at times, but not in this instance.
Brandi Chastain didn't take off her jersey because of just "a goal". I think it was the penalty goal that won the World Cup. So, in effect, the match was over. Also, soccer is a much more demonstrative game than tennis, with huge goal celebrations and operatic death scenes when fouled. And, it has vuvuzelas.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)Your post about having a coach on court was SPECIFIC to yesterdays match. Read what you wrote in context of what you wrote:
. I also don't know how you saw her coach coaching every point, particularly when she is one of the few players who does not have her coach on court. I saw her look at the box one time during the lead up.
malaise
(269,157 posts)And Serena has never used the option
stopbush
(24,396 posts). I also don't know how you saw her coach coaching every point, particularly when she is one of the few players who does not have her coach on court. I saw her look at the box one time during the lead up.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Naomi's American coach was doing what they all do. Did you watch the match?
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Ramos was definitely the problem.
At U.S. Open, power of Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka is overshadowed by an umpires power play
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/tennis/at-us-open-power-of-serena-williams-and-naomi-osaka-is-overshadowed-by-an-umpires-power-play/2018/09/08/edbf46c8-b3b4-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html
Snip
Ramos took what began as a minor infraction and turned it into one of the nastiest and most emotional controversies in the history of tennis, all because he couldnt take a woman speaking sharply to him.
Williams abused her racket, but Ramos did something far uglier: He abused his authority. Champions get heated its their nature to burn. All good umpires in every sport understand that the heart of their job is to help temper the moment, to turn the dial down, not up, and to be quiet stewards of the event rather than to let their own temper play a role in determining the outcome. Instead, Ramos made himself the chief player in the womens final. He marred Osakas first Grand Slam title and one of Williams last bids for all-time greatness. Over what? A tone of voice. Male players have sworn and cursed at the top of their lungs, hurled and blasted their equipment into shards, and never been penalized as Williams was in the second set of the U.S. Open final.
Snip
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Is the author from pluto ?
Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Serena needs a little more time to recover from the whole business of having a baby. She'll be fine.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)justie18
(169 posts)Agree completely! Especially since Serena clearly changed her strategy to follow coaches instructions! Also, after reading about her meltdown in 2011 when she was loosing to Sam Stosur, it just really looks bad for her sportsmanship. In Stosur's case, she was penalized for verbal hindrance during play, then had the meltdown. I thought she tried the same crap against Osaka in the first set, but Osaka was not rattled.
Perhaps the rules need to be changed but in the meantime, the umpire should not be blamed.
I am frankly disappointed in Billie Jean, not to mention Serena.
MuseRider
(34,115 posts)but then I noticed that she never said Serena was right acting this way or that the judge was wrong with the penalties. She only called out the unfairness of how women are judged, and we are. There is certainly a problem there but Serena did what she did and earned the penalties. It is a shame, it all could have ended after the first penalty. She knows what happens when you push it, even to the men although not nearly as often. THAT is where the unfairness is and I think that is what Billie Jean was saying.
Serena was displaying behavior that is not all that unusual for her. I had hoped she would stop. I understand why that has to be the hardest thing in the world to do but it is required. She has not learned that yet and she has certainly weathered these things without losing her fans so perhaps she never will.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,362 posts)... but they generally STFU after the second warning and loss of a point. Nobody wants to take it to the loss of a game, or a match.
Most women also manage to STFU after two warnings. Serena couldn't stop this time, who knows why.
I agree with her coach. Coaching, signalling, etc, should be allowed and ignored by the umpires. Comm gear is so good that players could wear earpieces to hear their coach. Maybe some do.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)and she did what she frequently has done over the years...take a big dump on the winner's day to try to spoil it.
brush
(53,833 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)What a guy
brush
(53,833 posts)criticized the chair umpire for over reacting and over penalizing Serena for what male players suffer no consequences for.
The sexism exhibited went completely over your head.
And what a concept, who would've thought American fans at the American US Open would show disfavor at questionable judgements against an American player, who then admonished the crowd to stop booing the new champion.
Wow! Unheard of.
Why such dislike for an American player by so many Americans? Is it because of her race?
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)If you knew what you were talking about you'd know what her name is. Past champions bend over backwards to give Serena the benefit of the doubt. They are really too kind because they're friends with her. I saw the looks on the faces of Mary Carillo and Lindsay Davenport after the match. They had no good things to say about Serena the fool she made of herself.
ETA: You changed spelling but still spelled it wrong. It's Evert not Evertt.
ETA: There. You got it right this time.
I know you're a fan of Serena, I get that, but I've seen her in action for years and years. She's a jerk. Always has been, and apparently, always will be.
brush
(53,833 posts)Is it because she's black?
And no mention of the sexism Serena was protesting, and what Shriver and Evert and Billie Jean King concurred with.
Really?
ETA: In response to your edit, I did "mention" Chrissie and Billie Jean and their responses a post above.
brush
(53,833 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Do tell.
brush
(53,833 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)very obvious
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)When the accusation is so carelessly thrown at people it's one of the reasons why many people don't take actual racism seriously.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)take racism seriously. Does not change one thing. So you run along now and play. I am right, you are wrong. Period. Nothing you say or imply will change that. I understand, tennis, the rules and how dipshit racist some umps are and stupidly open about it some can be. The ump was an asshole. And those who back him....well..... you're entitled. Your opinion about Serena Williams means NOTHING to me. So you know where that leaves you, I hope, and that you will stop stalking me and trying to harass me. bye
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Stalking? We're posting on a message board and we happen to disagree...you were "stalking" me and my posts as well sillyass.
Take care
heaven05
(18,124 posts)of cases of criticism toward Serena. No doubts. The ump hated her because of her race regardless that Naomi is mixed race and Serena is not. No doubts. Appearance is everything in this media-driven age. Youth was also a factor that included in appearance. Size. ect. All the booing was/is from the hypocritical gentile of the world who would rather see a Chris Everett out on the court. This criticism is all BS to distract from the real agenda of MANY in the amerika I know to be the reality. Racism is not suspended when sports come into play. Many here voiced criticism over the kneeling in protest of white cops killing mostly, unarmed and innocent AA men. women and CHILDREN as young as 11 years old.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Tursiops
(89 posts)A lot of players and coaches would like to change that but until the rule changes it's illegal. Federer does allright without it. Why can't the others?
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,362 posts)Some tournaments allow coaches to visit with the player on the court whenever the opposing player takes a bathroom break or gets medical attention.
Boxing is also an individual sport, but allows coaching between rounds, and even during the round.
Maybe they should confine the coaches and other staff behind one-way glass, so they can watch but not be seen or heard. But even then, someone will find a way, with modern communication gear.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)and I wonder if this ump has ever taken against a male player the way he did Serena
Response to Me. (Reply #13)
Loki Liesmith This message was self-deleted by its author.
Reader Rabbit
(2,624 posts)Every female athlete has had to put up with this misogynistic crap from male officials. Behavior that doesn't even make them blink their eyes when done by male athletes somehow merits STRICT ADHERENCE TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW if the person committing the "infraction" has ovaries instead of testicles. If she has the nerve to speak up for herself and point out the double standard, she's vilified as a poor loser, out of control, entitledbasically every kind of derogatory remark available to justify the sexism.
The timing of this kinda makes me wonder whether or not Serena's support for Nike's new Kaep-campaign had anything to do with the umpire's fault-finding.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)that's an interesting possibility. Makes more sense than all the rest hating Serena.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)I reject the notion that boorish behavior demonstrates the strength of women.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)part of being right is knowing what's right and in the case of Serena Williams, a lot of so-called liberals are pretty "boorish" themselves. So Serena was cheated by an idiot calling himself an ump, the WTA and many others who have more knowledge of what is boorish or not have lined up and have Serena's back. Your opinion of her counts for zero. Period. bye
oberliner
(58,724 posts)See this article from 1981, for instance:
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/24/sports/mcenroe-is-fined-1500-and-warned-of-being-suspended.html
Excerpt:
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)now.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)and the 10 largest fines as of 2014
https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-biggest/10-of-the-biggest-fines-in-the-history-of-tennis/
Only one woman in the group and at the top, guess who!
John Fante
(3,479 posts)I'm all for calling out sexism and racism when they occur, but this isn't one of those instances. Serena was getting worked and lost her cool. The consequence is that Naomi Osaka (also a woman of color) and her moment of triumph have been completely overshadowed by this overblown controversy.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)is all I've read here and it's pretty obvious what's behind it. Pretty obvious.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)does not need your help. She did a good job, yet Serena was still the recipient of stupid and obvious bias on the part of the idiot ump and she was right to get angry. All this faux outrage and the really transparent reality of white outrage that has always been against a woman who has a lot of strength to put up with the BS created by racist people who hate her being on the tennis court. I laugh at all this. She still outshines all who want to put her down. Always will.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)I didn't because I wouldn't say such a thing in public. Too much sniffling and whining. Can't stand it.
ecstatic
(32,727 posts)You have to go back 37 years to justify what happened yesterday?
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)that's what conservative trolls do.
LisaM
(27,827 posts)yesterday. I just saw nothing to excuse in Serena's behavior.
I think there's plenty of sexism in sports, but I don't see how what happened yesterday had anything to do with sexism.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)often than men? The evidence suggests the opposite is true.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Destroying her racket? Threatening the umpires job? Asking for a break because she is a mother?
What a poor role model she is.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Discrimination, in all of it's ugly forms, is wrong and should never be countenanced.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)Bigger than her opponents, bigger than the rules, bigger than the officials, bigger than the fans, bigger than tennis.
She's no victim.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)To not see what's right in front of them. Reminds of me of some people....
milestogo
(16,829 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Just to her fangirls and boys.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)But unless you actually FOLLOW tennis on the regular, then your opinion is one that is NOT taking all things into consideration, because you have no idea what Serena has had to face during her tennis career. Being black and a woman is difficult in a sport that at one time didn't want "your kind" playing in it. This official would never do a male tennis player like Rafa, Nole or Federer like he did Serena--during a championship finals match. He took a game away from her which "officially" cost her the match (She probably would have lost, because Osaka was playing extremely well and deserved to win her 1st US Open singles slam. And to Serena's credit, she's come a long way back, #16, after a difficult and life-threatening post-pregnancy). Now, If Ramos had called her over and warned her and she kept going, then that's on Serena Williams for complaining after a warning, and he'd have had the right to remove the game. But there was NO warning. He just took a game away from her after slandering her for cheating earlier in the match. Serena Williams has had a match stolen from her, and it happened at the same US Open in 2004. Ramos at the very least guilty of being a snowflake/thin-skinned IMHO. He abused his power also. By the way, he issued a code violation to Venus Williams because he said that she was cheating by allegedly receiving coaching help from her coach during a 2016 FO match. Venus told him during the changeover, I'm 36 years old, and I don't have to cheat.
At the 2001 US Open, and on prime-time TV, male tennis player Lleyton Hewitt accused a black male lines man of CHEATING for the black male opponent he was playing (James Blake) when he called 2 foot faults on him. Everyone heard him and knew what he meant. Yet, he wasn't defaulted and not even FINED. The match was reviewed, and he still wasn't fined or anything. I wonder WHY Hewitt wasn't punished for his racist tirade on prime-time tv? You can't tell me that him being white and a male didn't have something to do with it, and from all I have ever read, Hewitt never apologized to the linesman he racially slandered (If he did, then my bad, I'm wrong, but I don't think he ever has). In 2002, he said something to the affect of, lets just let bygones be bygones, and that he's spoken to Blake and we're fine You talk about Serena wanting to be bigger than the game, but Hewitt never being punished for his overt racism made HIM bigger than the game. He got away with it & he won the tournament. By the way, Hewitt was a jerk his WHOLE career. So, me being a fan of a following tennis since 1969, I can see where Serena Williams would feel a "certain way" about certain things concerning the US Open, as she was cheated out of a match there in 2004. That prime-time match was called so horribly, that the USTA issued a letter of apology to Serena Williams, but not before "gold-star" umpire (Marianna Alvez) was removed from officiating the rest of the tournament. Serena actually LOST that match to Jennifer Capriati due to bad umpiring/lines calls. You had people like yourself saying that she thought that SHE was bigger than the game, when everyone who actually knew tennis and who saw that match say that she was CHEATED out of that 3-set match. Actually, Serena held her temper quite well after having a match STOLEN from her. But she was still called a cry baby, sore loser, when she rightfully complained in her post match presser about how badly her match was called. Thank goodness shot spot was made a permanent fixture in tennis, but that only after Serena had that match STOLEN from her.
And here we are today.
Look at this cartoon from Australia. This isn't racist? Not sure what race you are but if you aren't black, you have NO idea what black women, especially successful ones go through with sexism & racism on the regular.
I have been a Serena Williams fan for decades. Love her, respect her, and there have been times where I've not even agreed with some of her actions. She definitely isn't perfect, as none of us are. However, I'm hearing how she's a cry baby, sore loser, cheater, makes up things, a whiner and complainer. She's had to endure being called a man, transvestite, monkey, gorilla, silver back, liar--has been accused allowing their father to match-fix matches between them, and you have had those say that she's built like a male/muscular/intimidating and that it gives her an advantage over the "regular" women on the tour
Like I say, you have a right to your own opinion. But, unless you have a more full context of what this woman's gone through on the tour over her 20 plus years playing on it, then to me what you're saying about her thinking that she's "bigger than the game" is simplistic and shallow at best.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)Neither did I - and I watched this match with many a group of women and we all were disappointed and screamed in disappointment and disgust when she called first the mom/baby card and then the woman card.
Her coach was coaching and he even admitted it. The rules are the rules. Whether she agreed or had seen it or not or its done all the time and men get passes wasnt relevant. She should have accepted the initial penalty and kept playing and being a good sport and playing the game. But abusing a racket? That is also against rules and she knows it. It bad sportsmanship and against the rules. She chose to do it. She then decided to keep going and verbally abuse and accuse and call an umpire a thief. Holy shit. She lost it. She was out of control. I was embarrassed and sick seeing this. Exhibit A in bad sportsmanship and then calling out the accusation of sexism. Even if it was sexism, she was wrong. She should have after being called on the coaching penalty kept her cool and shown she is the best tennis player. Instead she started channeling Cardi B and had no self control and even the stats showed what anybody who plays tennis saw, which is Osaka was outplaying Serena. Osaka was calm and cool.
Serena lost it and lost it all and has only herself o blame. Billie Jean King is correct in that there is sexism in tennis as there is in many sports. But in this case, it was Serena who messed up. The Ump Ramos could be the biggest sexist mofo on the planet and it doesnt matter. He made a call on coaching penalty (that was happening and was his call to make) and right or wrong, Serena had a choice and she made the really wrong choice.
I lost a lot of respect for Serena last night and she lost more than the match and tournament- she lost the ability to be the top role model for young women athletes in the battle against sexism.
That was also a huge loss for us all.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)my position and opinion of what was, are firm.
Thank you. This was exactly how I felt watching the match. In fact, after a few minutes of Serena's meltdown, I had to turn off the TV. I did turn it back on for the last game, but what an ugly finish to a grand slam final.
Serena had a similar meltdown during the 2011 final, when she was penalized for 'verbal hindrance during play' - also happened while she was loosing the match against Stosur.
janterry
(4,429 posts)Her coach didn't just say he coached her on that point, but that he coached her 'every' point.
So, she knew. I mean, she could be a complete idiot and not know that he does that 'all the time.' But that just doesn't make sense.
Her whole diatribe against him was built on a falsehood.
Tursiops
(89 posts)It's more about that than gender.
MuseRider
(34,115 posts)there always has been and it has been slowly whittled away but is long from gone.
That says nothing about the match yesterday. She was not penalized because she is a woman, the rules were broken and she escalated. This has been applied to men but so rarely it is hard to remember.
The penalization was the correct response to the situation but it is certainly not used equally. It does not change the outcome and should be a warning to all of the players that perhaps the coaches are getting tired of players who cannot let it go. Each penalty was appropriate, a few words even if angry are expected but the judge was not a thief and coming on the heels of 2 other penalties it was a proper response.
Women are not treated fairly that is for certain however getting called on rule breaking is not inherently sexist, it is applied with a heavier hand to women as most things are in the sport but the rules were broken. This was not a new judge either, he is well respected.
Billie Jean King is my forever hero.
griloco
(832 posts)over those who try to refute the obvious.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Serena is a verbally abusive bully who likes to burn the house down when she's losing. It's not a woman thing it's a lack of character thing.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....or pms-ing.
Anger is always de-legitimized in women.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)It's not okay to take your anger out on everyone around you. If you do there are consequences.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)That's not what I'm saying. The point about female anger is a separate matter. She was penalized for behavior that has not penalized men players.
Sometimes anger is the only way to make a point. If the point must never be made by anger, then the same norm should apply to men.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)If they don't stop after the third warning they lose a game. Those are the rules. She made her point and kept going, smashed her racket, got a second warning. She knew what would happen if she didn't kept badgering him. Ramos is a stickler for following the rules, all the players know that.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)the picture of her raising the trophy, looking sad, was a heartbreaker.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)she had an ump on her side. NO DOUBTS.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)Regardless of who we blame.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)They are a Serena fan, not a tennis fan. They were already sore that Osaka was daring to hand the Queen her lunch.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)brush
(53,833 posts)The second set was much more competitive even though the ref took a point and a game from Serena.
Serena is a known slow starter. She has come back many times in matches to force a third set.
I would like to have seen how the match played out without the over reaction of the ref to what her coach was doing, which she couldn't see btw.
And chk out tennis legend Billie Jean Kings remarks on the matter:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/billie-jean-king-op-ed-serena-williams_us_5b9595b1e4b0162f472e68ef
malaise
(269,157 posts)I've been talking about her since she won Indian Wells early this year and then she beat Serena in Miami although Serena was not fit.
Watching Naomi is like watching young Serena and their lives are not dissimilar. She and her family faced horrific racism in Japan and it's actually poetic justice that the first Japanese( (male or female) to win a grand slam single title is an Afro-Haitian Japanese.
She played really well yesterday and while it's true that Serena was playing better I the second set, Naomi was not giving an inch and coming back from set down against someone with your game who is almost 17 years younger would have been no easy task.
I was rooting for Serena and #24, but I was always aware that Naomi could beat her again.
Serena is the greatest of all time, but like all great athletes, that time eventually comes to an end.
I hope she equals the record before retiring but she's already the best ever.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and never will. That's my position and won't budge an inch
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)is for the privileged and entitled who must rationalize said privilege and entitlement to be able to continually turn away from the truth. I see it happen every day in amerika. Doesn't make me feel better. Osaka and her sad look is for what? Did she know she got big breaks? I seriously don't know. But in not seeing the match first hand and relying on snips from the match, Osaka got BIG breaks, while Serena got none. Osaka is a good athlete. That is all she gets from me.
I rely on my gut in Amerika every day. Been wrong 1% of the time. My gut got me through a war, so yeah, I rely on it. heavily.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)with living in amerika, I have been wrong about racism and racist situations, 1% of the time. Since I saw my first racist incident/consequence, I have relied on my gut when dealing/assessing situations like this. Have at your non-belief. Does not faze me.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)being right 99% of the time about racism and this enabling, encouraging society and its minions of the racist culture of amerika makes me weary. It is just waiting to sink, already hit the iceberg, November 9, 2016.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)and don't let me start on the DEGREES of racism in this country. You have nothing to provide me in the area of trying to educate me. NO, that's the first thing I saw and just accepted my conclusions based on the South African apartheid system of classification of POC that white amerika still uses. Look, I have watched the ebb and flow of white racism in its many guises and rationales for 59 years, NOTHING has really changed except the window dressing. Behind that oh, so fine and beautiful window dressing has always lain a hell hole of hate, ignorance and stupidity perpetrated by a racist group of sub-cultural slugs who are the foot soldiers of the RW racists that have governed and led this society for generations.
Nope, didn't miss a damn thing. I am done with this. You have a good one you heah??? bye
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)I doubt they ever heard of Naomi before yesterday!
Response to USALiberal (Reply #58)
John Fante This message was self-deleted by its author.
nini
(16,672 posts)Don't blame her for the ump being an asshole.
The 'win' isn't the issue here.. it's how Serena was treated and the BS that took the focus off the winner. Osaka did outplay Serena.
I love Serena - but Osaka would have won without all the crap that went down.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)You're just making excuses.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)Serena was whipping Jennifer Capriati in set 3 until the So-called chair umpire Marianna Alves and her crew did her in during the third set at the 2004 US Open.
How Serena held her nerve and temper was beyond me. I'd have went ballistic. Nope, she was TOLD in many a column I read that she should have been the bigger person because she was a multi-slam champion. Shut up and be quiet, and in some cases, I read where people said that she's won ENOUGH, good that she lost even though cheated. Mighty white of them. And even when the USTA issued an apology to Serena because that match was so poorly umpired, those same folks saying that she's won enough and should shut up, many said something to the effect of she was black and the only reason she was given a written apology And, even though Capriati clearly was shown to have seen several of those balls hit inside the baseline and past her as winners for Serena during that match, she said that she didn't see anything in her post match presser And the LAST shot of the match landed clearly inside of the baseline as a winner for Serena, yet was called out and the match went to Capriati. Racism and Sexism is alive and well in the still mostly white sport of tennis.
Finally, black people in general have to always be the "BIGGER PERSON." Or are told to SHUT UP and take it, or turn the other cheek, and that's especially so for African-American women who tend to stand up for themselves. I know, I've been there as an African-American and Native American woman, and have had to stand up for myself in the field I've worked in.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)The blown calls from that 14-year-old match were acknowledged by the WTA and the umpire was sent home. They apologized to Serena.
The three penalties Serena recieved yesterday were not blown. She earned every one. They didn't halt here momentum either because she never had it.
If you're going to scream racism you should at least acknowledge that Naomi Osaka is decidedly non-white.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)How dare he do his job.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)now the ref, from all I have seen and read, that's a different story. You are entitled to your opinion, I WILL stick with mine.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Her coach admitted he was coaching from the stands. Ref was enforcing the rules. Facts. I'll stick with the facts.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Serena all you please, not my problem....
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)I judge her on the content of her character, or lack thereof. And it's very lacking.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and it saddens me so many have such visceral hate for black athletes who resist against the wannabe 21st century slave masters. The double standard is alive and well in Amerika.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Would you like a tissue?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)but some are blind and need to be led. I understand why you can't admit defeat. EVERYONE, has backed Serena. That counts as someone who has the juice to back her. No tissue needed, she has been vindicated by those who count. not some who faux outrage is rendered moot and of NO CONSEQUENCE. bye
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Everyone is not backing Serena and she made a damn fool of herself. I have a case of puffs tissues for her, too.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)enough to make me really laugh. People that count are having Serena's back. Your opinion matters not. Take your tissues somewhere they are needed. Serena can more than buy her own. and she damn sure has more than you. Jealousy is pretty obvious. So take your opinions and tissue elsewhere. Not needed by me or Serena....what a joke all this faux outrage is and the transparency is obvious.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)You really got me there, lol. I know you are but what am I. Your turn...
nini
(16,672 posts)Did the same crap to Venus in the past. He handled that whole thing completely wrong..
Her reaction wouldn't have been a bip on the radar is she was male.. and white.
Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)And yes, what she did was verbal abuse.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)Prove your point.
This is typical abuser mentality. Its OK because the victim deserved the awful behavior of the abuser.
underpants
(182,868 posts)It seems clear that she got coaching from the box and also abused equipment and then she went off when she should have known to stop and cut her losses.
The score tells you everything you need to know. It wasn't her day. She made a truly remarkable comeback (in terms of time) but sometimes the ball says NO. Ball don't lie.
Hav
(5,969 posts)To degrade real sexism for one's own bad behavior and clear rule violations is disgraceful in addition to an insult to women.
Others have mentioned that her coach later admitted to coaching her while she told the ump he didn't and would rather lose than cheat. That would make her a liar as well.
And what is this nonsense with comparing it to what men do? When they have breakdowns and throw insults, they get punished as well. No one calls them outspoken for it.
Botany
(70,566 posts)She is a the G.O.A.T. of women's tennis but her actions were wrong.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Who cares if coaches coach during the game? They do in every other sport. Lets take Frances World Cup away because Deschamps told Pogba to look for Mbappe DURING THE GAME! What a stupid rule.
jalan48
(13,881 posts)Her coach admitted he was using hand signals but Serrena denied looking, I guess he just can't help himself even though Serena never looks!. Serena got caught breaking the rules and it was embarrassing for her. That's why she couldn't let it go.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,352 posts)Against Nadal: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/863758/Rafael-Nadal-Nick-Kyrgios-point-penalty-China-Open
and against Steve Johnson, just a day or two later: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/nick-kyrgios-controversy-shanghai-masters-retirement-twitter-fined-a7994721.html
Fabio Fognini thrown out of the US Open last year (not just the singles that he lost, but the doubles too) for verbally abusing an umpire: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/02/fabio-fognini-thrown-out-us-open-obscenities-umpire
jayddrew
(12 posts)Serena had no right to rip that umpire and call him a thief. That was as deep a personal insult as the implication that she was cheating. However, her point was spot on about the double standard between men and women in tennis. What happened with her was a prime example, and the episode earlier with the young lady who changed her shirt is the smoking cannon. Whether this particular umpire was aware of what he had done is beside the point, but if he has a history of this, it should be explored separately.
This should not fade - the women in tennis, current players and historic figures (King, Everett, Navratilova, Graf, etc.) need to approach all the major tennis organizations and demand this be addressed ASAP. If that means many major rule changes, from dress to behavior to coaching, so be it.
janterry
(4,429 posts)Her coach was coaching. He said so. I posted up thread that she must know (he said he did it 'every' point). You mean to tell me her coach 'coaches all the time' and during this match every point - and she has 'no idea'? That just doesn't make sense.
She knows her coach. She must know.
If you don't like a rule, change it. But if you get caught breaking it - well, then, you get caught breaking it.
Honestly, if she had just let it go, then it was just a warning.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)As for that chair umpire, he sure as hell wouldn't have taken a game away from a male during a championship match. Some gold-star official. From Nadal, Nole or Fed during a championship match? NO WAY. He also accused VENUS of cheating too. Humm 🤔
It's not just Serena: how umpire Carlos Ramos has clashed with players.
The former champion said she had been unfairly treated by the official during Saturdays US Open final. She is far from the first player to find fault with him.
The former champion said she had been unfairly treated by the official during Saturdays US Open final. She is far from the first player to find fault with him
It is said that umpires and referees are doing a good job if fans dont notice they are there. If thats the case then Carlos Ramoss performance during Saturdays controversial US Open final was a failure.
The Portuguese umpire penalised Serena Williams three times during her loss to Naomi Osaka, ultimately awarding the Japanese player a game after Williams called Ramos a thief. Williams accused Ramos of sexism, pointing out that men are rarely called out for such outbursts.
Ramos is a gold-badge umpire, a status conferred on the top officials in tennis. He has vast experience and has umpired a final at all four grand slams, as well as the 2012 Olympic mens final, in which Andy Murray beat Roger Federer.
Serena Williams burns the house down as Naomi Osaka's brilliance is forgotten
Read more
Ramos also has a reputation as a stickler for the rules. At last years French Open, he drew criticism from the eventual champion, Rafael Nafal after they argued during a fourth-round match. Ramos gave Nadal two warnings for slow play, and the Spaniard felt he was being unfairly treated.
I say it with sadness, but he is an umpire who scrutinises me more and who fixates on me more, Nadal said after the match. He also pressured me about coaching. I have respect for him and all I ask is for that to be reciprocated.
The umpires are here to analyse the match and they are not here to use the stopwatch. There are some who like to take part in the matches more and who like to put more pressure on than others. If you want to see good tennis, you have to let the players breathe a little.
Ramos has also been accused of inconsistencies. At this years Wimbledon quarter-final between Novak Djokovic and Kei Nishikori both players threw their rackets to the ground in frustration. However, only Djokovic was issued a warning and directed a comment at the umpire during the game: Double standards, my friend, double standards, he told Ramos. After the match, Djokovic brought the subject up again with reporters. I thought I didnt harm the grass. I know how I threw the racket. [Nishikori] even threw the racket in the fourth set. [Ramos] said he didnt see it it.
Ramos has also been accused of grandstanding. At the 2016 Olympics, he issued Andy Murray with a code violation when he thought the reigning champion had called him stupid.
I didnt say stupid umpire, I said stupid umpiring. But if you want to be the star of the show, thats fine, said Murray as the two spoke during a break between games.
Link to tweet
Williamss sister, Venus, has a history with Ramos too. At the 2016 French Open he accused the elder Williams of receiving coaching during a match, the same offence he penalised Serena for on Saturday. Like her sister, Venus denied she had cheated. Im 36 years old, she said. I play fair.
Although it is impossible to prove whether Ramos was being pedantic or sexist during Saturdays final, it is true that he has never penalised a player a game in such a high-stakes match. For former US Open champion Billie Jean-King there is little doubt where the blame lay. When a woman is emotional, shes hysterical and shes penalized for it. When a man does the same, hes outspoken and there are no repercussions, she wrote on Twitter. Thank you, Serena Williams, for calling out this double standard. More voices are needed to do the same.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)though Serena held back on that charge, which everyone, nonetheless, knew was plainly evident. Why are male tennis players not held to the same standard?!
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Do you have proof that male players aren't held to the same standard?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Her bad behavior got her into this mess.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Good for Serena calling these bastards out on their double standards and hypocrisy.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)That crowd booing her for being black that time...sportscasters making snide comments about her body type...I even read that she got tested for drugs more than any other tennis player. I feel sad that so many here are telling her how she should act, how the way she reacted is wrong...same as it ever was, for successful, powerful women in the public eye. They're supposed to hold it all in, never be angry, be perfect ladies. Then, even after she composed herself and put an arm around Naomi Osaka and asked the crowd to stop booing and make this a good moment for hershe gets criticized for that! Bah.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)that's been thrown her way. She shouldn't have to take this crap anymore... I applaud her!!
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)I can't believe some of the posts here that are defending Serena. I also can't believe the panel on "A.M. Joy" who obviously know nothing about tennis.
I have played and watched tennis since the John McEnroe days of throwing racquets and yelling at umpires.
Things were getting so bad in the seventies that the powers that be decided to crack down on bad behavior on the court (including coaching from the stands).
I am so pissed at Serena.
Let me make it clear that I think Serena is not only the greatest women's tennis player in history. But possibly the greatest athlete in history.
Serena Williams acts like the most entitled person on earth. She is beginning to believe the opinion that she is the greatest and is entitled to break the rules (like threatening the life of a lines person a few years back).
Serena and her team broke the rules... It is that simple. Gone are the days where you can insult an umpire or throw a racquet without penalty.
Imagine if Osaka had done what Serena had done. Do you think she would have gotten away with it. I think not. But because she is Serena.... I might add that any male player would have suffered the same penalties.
Serena wasn't even penalized for a time delay during her tirade.
She demanded an apology because she felt like her character was questioned. I have no idea what she is talking about. In fact, Serena questioned the umpires character by calling him a liar.
Then... Realizing she made a fool of herself, she flips a switch and acts all gracious. I've seen this from her before and I don't buy it.
My heart goes out to Osaka. This should have been all about her. Instead Serena stole her thunder. Osaka came out and shocked Serena in the first set and Serena couldn't handle it.
Serena you may very well be the greatest to have ever played the game, but sometimes your attitude and sense of entitlement do not serve you well.
janterry
(4,429 posts)made me angry. It was like she was now going to run that show, too.
The problem was - it wasn't a show. It was Osaka's moment.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)Because he used his racism card on a black lines man & James Blake. Yet NOTHING was done to him.
Humm 🤔
I guess it was because of HIS sense of WHITE MALE ENTITLEMENT, which served him WELL because nothing happened to him. He won the tournament and slurred a black lines man and James Blake.
Got away with it.
I actually follow tennis on the regular. Have this past 51 years. Anyway, I'm STILL waiting for HIM to be defaulted for his racist remarks about that lines person/Blake 17 years later. I'm still waiting for him to be fined for his racist remarks. Hewitt was a complete jerk on the tennis court as well. White Male privileges.
Hewitt not fined for tirade.
NEW YORK U.S. Open officials decided Saturday not to discipline Lleyton Hewitt for his tirade during a five-set victory a day earlier, saying it was unclear whether his comments were racially motivated.
Because evidence was inconclusive, Hewitt didn't violate the Grand Slam code of conduct, tournament referee Brian Earley said.
Playing on Friday against James Blake, one of the few blacks in the event, Hewitt complained after being called for two foot faults by a black linesman and requested that the official be removed.
Television microphones caught the Australian saying to the chair umpire: "Look at him. Look at him, and you tell me what the similarity is. Just get him off the court."
Some observers, including Blake, thought Hewitt was noting that the linesman and Blake were both black. But the umpire, Andreas Egli, inferred no racial overtones, Earley said.
Hewitt told officials Saturday what he meant by the comment was that the same linesman made both foot-fault calls.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/861873/Hewitt-not-fined-for-tirade.html
White males breaking the rules again and getting away with it. AGAIN. What's else is new
In any event, it doesn't for an instant excuse what Hewitt said or the complete lack of backbone shown by tennis authorities in dealing with him. He probably should have been defaulted on the spot -- the rule book allows for immediate default for "gross misconduct," and this was about as gross as you can get. To then listen to the tape and take no action is inexcusable.
James Blake chose to take the high road, saying that things get said in the heat of battle and no hard feelings. He's entitled to feel that way. But there should be hard feelings. Hewitt is a spoiled, arrogant tennis prodigy surrounded by excuse-makers who blame everyone but him when he gets into trouble. (This was not a first, just the worst.) By the end of the tournament, the TV announcers were actually heard saying that Hewitt had "overcome" the controversy of the first week. Overcome? Oh, please.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2001/09/11/hewitts-fault/a9e7bd0b-91b7-4952-bd56-7d36243b0ece/?utm_term=.c19780e535c7
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)She should be applauded, not condemned, for her brave actions.
LenaBaby61
(6,976 posts)You're welcome 😊
Someone on this very site compared Serena to Donald tRump. Called her a bully and said she was acting just like him. Yep, here on Democratic Underground. I'd compare Ann Coulter to tRump because for her whole existence, Coulter's been an ignorant, race-bating asshole just like tRump, yet SERENA'S like tRump?
Wonder why no one cared about Lleyton Hewitt's racist actions from the 2001 US Open? He made a racist ass of himself, but HE didn't get fined nor kicked out of the 2001 US Open tournament. The USTA said that what he said in accusing a black lines man of cheating for James Blake who he was playing, was not racist. Hewitt's a WHITE MALE, so he must have been telling the truth about what he said not being racist, right He never was given ANY punishment for his actions. I remember James Blake being praised for being a GOOD man for "taking the high road" and for "turning the other cheek" (Hewitt remained a total prick his whole career). Of course many people (Even some sports writers back then), were quick to say that some of the Williams Family's "actions" could be considered racist, and of course the match-fixing accusations were thrown in for good measure. I'm a 20 plus year Serena Williams fan (Have been following tennis since 1969), and while I wished she could have handled the situation better with Ramos, the Chair Umpire sure didn't handle the situation well himself. Pretty sure he wouldn't have interjected himself into a male player's championship match. Yes, Serena was being beaten by Osaka, but Serena was beating Jennifer Capriati in 2004's US Open until the chair umpire and lines people took over and cost HER that match. The USTA had to issue an apology to her because that match was officiated so horribly. I think Serena had that reaction back to 2004 during the Finals match because she's been accused of being a cheater for so long--accused of 'intimidating' or being 'brash' or even 'threatening' towards the other "gentle" women of the tour. And, how dare she win matches and championships over these last 2 decades with her serve. There are still the doping accusations But you know something, the truth is stranger than fiction because in reality, it was the WTA'S promoted as such "Face of tennis" and "It Girl," blonde and Russian" Maria Sharapova who was found to have been using Meldonium for well over 10 years. It was not banned when she was using it, but she forgot to read her email stating that this particular PED was put on the banned WTA banned list right around the time of the finals of the 2016 AO Open in January. When questioned as to why she was using this PED, she said that she needed the drug over a decade ago for her heart because heart problems run in her family. Then, she said she used it for diabetes which runs in her family. Odd though, because she's "evolved" into quite the Candy Mogul over the years. Yes, selling her "fine" candies and now "fine" chocolates to children all over the globe at the various tournaments in the WTA, and in various department stores. She's very lucky that her ban was shortened so that she could resume her tennis career. Odd thing though, and it's that she's really struggled on the tour post-Meldonium (Which is really good for faster physical recovery/endurance and stamina). She used to be known for playing in and winning a lot of 3-set matches. She's never been the best athlete, but at 31, she's always practiced well and kept herself in tip-top shape. I wonder WHAT could have happened to the 5-time singles slam and former "IT Girl" of the WTA to make her struggle so after returning from her ban and struggle so in winning matches 🤔
And speaking of James Blake again:
Yeah, he's lucky to have had a video of his arrest, or else the policeman might have said that he was guilty of something. We know how things can escalate into death be some policemen when you look a 'certain' way.
Oh yes, the WTA & ATP has been a mini-Peyton Place--full of accusations, denials, sexism and racism for a very long time--just like in normal, everyday world
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)moondust
(20,002 posts)had a history of unfair calls based on gender, race, or anything else, I thought Serena was taking a cheap shot at him, using sexism as a weapon. It reminded me a little bit of Gillibrand unfairly going after Al Franken in the heat of MeToo.
Response to kpete (Original post)
Post removed
Gothmog
(145,488 posts)redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Not helpful in the slightest.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Do you know how many male athletes, in the history of pro sports, have been penalized for insulting a referee, attacking a referee, insulting an opponent, attacking an opponent, spitting at various people and all sorts of other shitty behavior? So many, one could write entire books on the subject.
Trying to make this about sexism helps no one except Trump.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Never has a male tennis player been penalized for changing his shirt on the court.
And WTF does Trump have to do with it?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)I agree with you on the shirt-change penalty. That was ridiculous.
Demit
(11,238 posts)The other players on the tour say so too. Especially in a Slam event. Crap call.
Tursiops
(89 posts)It's not a group sport. If you are getting advice from your coach in real time it is an unfair advantage. Her coach is right: everybody does it (except Federer and some others, including Osaka) and it should be called out much more. I think the reason it was in this case is because it was so obvious and it was a Final.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)"Controversy was never far from McEnroe, however; in his fourth-round match against Mikael Pernfors at the 1990 Australian Open, McEnroe was ejected from the tournament for swearing at the umpire, supervisor, and referee.[14] He was warned by the umpire for intimidating a lineswoman, and then docked a point for smashing a racket. McEnroe was apparently unaware that a new Code of Conduct, which had been introduced just before the tournament, meant that a third code violation would not lead to the deduction of a game but instead would result in immediate disqualification; therefore, when McEnroe unleashed a volley of abuse at umpire Gerry Armstrong, he was defaulted. He was also fined $6,500 for the incidents.[24][25][26]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McEnroe
"default: Disqualification of a player in a match by the chair umpire after the player has received four code violation warnings, generally for his/her conduct on court. A double default occurs when both players are disqualified. deuce: Score of 4040 in a game."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_tennis_terms#D
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Well said.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)When Someone Shows You Who They Are, Believe Them
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/z-redesign/archive-sport/serena-williams-brat-antics-wear-thin/news-story/15eed2ba80ad41d0b5fa0d0f8a8e3d7b?sv=eaaa0cf616dc307ea4c8cc207fb30540&nk=501c16f04e78d588be95d3e6a58b6027-1536527274
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/daily-news/2013/07/angry-outburst-tennis-serena-williams
Reader Rabbit
(2,624 posts)We've lived and breathed it our entire lives. If we call it out, it's there.
And I have to say, I'm super uncomfortable with all the Serena-blame because she supposedly "broke the rules," or was "unprofessional," or whatever. It has disturbing echoes of "Well, they shouldn't have broken the law" or "They should have followed the cops' instructions" after every police shooting of a black person. Getting pulled over for "driving while black" is a selectively-enforced rule, too, you know.
And finally, why wouldn't a strong, self-confident woman call out selectively-enforced rules that reek putting said powerful woman "in her place"?
As the saying goes, "Well-behaved women rarely make history."
disenfranchised
(268 posts)Thank you for saying what I was feeling, but did not know how to put to words.
Reader Rabbit
(2,624 posts)To say I'm a little disheartened to find so many willing to bash Serena and completely deny that her race and sex played any role in this incident is an understatement. While the anti-woman nastiness against her is nowhere near Gamer-gate levels, it certainly has that vibe.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)I see blame on all parties. I feel for Osaka, it should have been her big moment, breaking through for a major at 20 years old. After the match Lindsay Davenport and Mary Carrillo pretty much expressed the same thought. Sorry Billie Jean, I have been a fan for years but think you are off base a bit here.
Sometimes you have to move on and play the next point, it works out in the long run for you!
Tursiops
(89 posts)He has charged men something like four times as women for violations. She got caught cheating. (or her coach got caught. either way its a violation)
Then she broke her racquet. Another violation.
Being the professional champion that she is she knew that verbally attacking the ref was going to surely cost her but she persisted. Not once but twice while she could have been charged with time wasting on Osaka's serve.
Look at her history. Threatening to kill a Chinese lines woman half her size; verbally abusing a female ref. All at the US Open and because the fans are solidly behind her.
Like Mary Carillo said, she is a great champion and person but at her worst she can be a bully.
brettdale
(12,383 posts)Although it would be hard to disagree with the great Billie Jean King.
There is a former tennis player from New Zealand, who never won a major, but
played the circuit back in the late 80's.
She came out and basically called Serena a liar, and she there is no doubt that
she was cheating and being coached, she also said that tennis umpire is just known
as being extremely strict and is harsh on all players.
kcr
(15,318 posts)I'm not sure why we're supposed to give Cordwall's input special importance, here. A lot of people have played the circuit.
brettdale
(12,383 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Congrats to her challenger, she played a great game.
brettdale
(12,383 posts)Tennis legend Martina Navratilova says Serena Williams lost the plot in her US open final.
Writing in the New York Times, Navratilova said there was a huge double standard for women when it comes to how bad behaviour is punished and not just in tennis.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12122956
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Personal responsibility. Choices. Consequences. Bullying and verbally abusing others is bad.
Smh that this is hard for some people.
Wawannabe
(5,676 posts)For supporting Serena!