Message auto-removed

[Name removed]

[LexVegas]

1. Bye.

[Cha]

46. FWIW.. I saw you "pretending" the other day

or was it only yesterday?.. I wasn't impressed.

And, now this?

[leftstreet]

3. You can stay if you give each one of us $5k n/t

[Coventina]

7. no text. It means there is nothing in addition to the subject line.

We have had a few conservatives over the years.
They were allowed to stay as long as they did not violate the TOS.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. No topic.

When I was a kid I had two friends who were Mormons. Looking back they were more mature than other kids and exhibited more empathy. What do you want to know about us ?

Maybe we can convert you. "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance." Consider me a political evangelist.

I'm a Christian and a liberal and see no incongruity between the two.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. There must be a strain of liberalism in Mormonism

Harry Reid is a Mormon and he is fairly liberal.

I don't know how the mods will react. I do know if you support Republicans and/or especially Trump you will be banned.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. You should tell him to post here.

Did you go overseas to evangelize ?

I'm a lapsed Baptist but still a believer. They are heavy on evangelizing but it's not a right of passage.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. My minister spent two years in Mexico. He spoke fluent Spanish.

He was intolerant of Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. I'm sure that doesn't come as a shock to you.

[roamer65]

68. Ah ha...you are questioning things.

Your next door neighbor is helping your mind open.

Remember...minds are like parachutes...they only function when they are open.

Your very liberal next door would be welcome here, btw.

[Oneironaut]

5. You'll probably be banned, but I would recommend lurking, if not for news stories, etc.

I would recommend Discussionist, where both sides are allowed. The level of discourse there is pretty bad, though. Reddit is better.

[LuvLoogie]

6. The shorthand is: Trump is a Bigot Grifter and

the people that still support him are dead weight in the endeavor toward a more perfect union.

[Turin_C3PO]

8. I don't think DU allows people

who don’t support Democrats. Do you approve of Donald Trump? There’s a sister site to DU called Discussionist that allows all points of view.

[Adrahil]

9. You will likely be banned....

Due to TOS... but I'll be honest.... and this will sound insulting,a no I don't mean it be.... but if you buy the LDS religion, you've been conditioned to buy anything. I grew up in a Christian, consetvative family. But I've always been a critical thinker. I've always looked at the evidence. And in my early 20's, I dumped conservatism for the fraud it is. Religion too. It started with rejecting creationism, but as I studied the origins of the abrahamic relgions, I came to the inevitable conclusion it's the same as any other made-up religion. From there, it was much easier to see through the constructed lies of the American conservative movement. It becam obvious who it served. I urge to examine your beliefs at the most fundamental level. See the liars and con,en for who they are. And act on it. I wish you peace.

[Adrahil]

17. I sense that you have doubts.

Explore them. You do not have to be a victim of your own culture.

[Oneironaut]

20. I see the same thing with a lot of Christians that are shedding their religion.

(Not what the OP is doing, but it's similar)

I hope the OP keeps exploring views outside their own current world view.

[FreeState]

32. If you ever want to talk with a former member

Message me - RM, born in the covenant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. The other side of Jesus

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. "

Acts 4:32

[Tom Rinaldo]

74. I can just speak for me

If you sincerely act here the way you described that you want to, being mindful of not trying to be disruptive, I personally welcome you and appreciate your reason for wanting to be here. Thanks for being honest.

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. You are welcome, here is P.S. I meant to add to my post above...

P.S. (again assuming your sincerity) if you do get banned please at least come back and lurk. It is healthy to challenge unchallenged political beliefs, And if you ever do become a true Democrat later you can try to register again. DU allows members to "alert" on posts that they feel violate the community standards. If you gets alerted on too often you can get banned for being disruptive if juries agree with the alerter. So you may be skating on thin ice here. Good luck to you though, sincerely.

[Tom Rinaldo]

83. God I really am half asleep Again posted in wrong place I'll add this to where the OP responded n/t

[Liberalhammer]

11. If you support Trump

Then I already know your views, and they are all terrible.

[roamer65]

13. Why are you interested in understanding us?

Please explain your motives further.

[roamer65]

19. Are you questioning your religion?

[roamer65]

26. You are going to have to walk a very thin tightrope if they let you stay.

This site is for those who support and vote for Democrats.

What do you think of former Senator Harry Reid? He is a Mormon.

[brush]

60. Ok, you asked for it. Are you a trump supporter?

[canetoad]

16. Nahhh

Doesn't ring true. You can stay here and lurk for as long as you like. You obviously intend to make inflammatory posts.

I vote

[bdtrppr6]

28. you can state your case

just don't be an asshole. or too Repukey. be rational and thoughtful and you'll be fine. this ain't 4chan.

[Freethinker65]

22. If you lean to the right of Evan McMullin, this is probably not the place for you

[Kali]

23. in some ways this IS an echo chamber

as it is meant for Democrats and Democratic supporters. there is a sister site by the same admins that allows all veiws, though there isn't a whole lot of actual discussion, it is pretty rough and a lot of the conservative posters are just trolls (as are a couple of the left side, but there are less of us now). DU is the best place to get news and read some of the differences inside of the Democratic tent, but the conservative point of view is not welcome.

https://www.discussionist.com/

someone on the right who is not just an obnoxious troll would be a good addition over there. check it out.

[Cha]

58. Yes! WE Care About OUR Democracy and our Planet.

We All want to Start taking our Country Back from the Fascist trumputin Regime in November.

Shocking Reality Based " (((((((((ECHO CHAMBER!)))))))))"

Kali

[Polybius]

29. Can you tell me your honest feelings about Trump?

Did you vote for him or Evan McMullin? Are you voting for Romney this year?

[JI7]

37. then what are you here for and why not contact local democratic groups in your area

and talk to them ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I don't know what the future holds as far as the moderators.

However don't forget that many of us were civil and are as interested in you as you are in us. We want a nation where everybody is treated with dignity regardless of their race religion, lack of religion, gender, and sexual orientation. We want a nation where every child can realize his or her potential. We want a nation where even its poorest citizens live free from want.

[Polybius]

38. Understood

My best friend lives in Utah. Politics aside, it's a very beautiful state if you can take the cold Winters.

[Aristus]

30. Did government agents knock on your door in the middle of the night and

tell you to stop worshiping?

If not, tell Marie Osmond to STFU.

I'm a Christian.

Why do right-wing Christians insist they're being persecuted?

Because gay people get to exist?

Because we don't Torquemada anyone who isn't a right-wing Christian?

Because women get to choose what they get to do with their own bodies?

Why do right-wing Christians want so desperately to believe that they're persecuted?

[JI7]

35. what do you want to understand ? there are democrats/liberals in Utah . isn't Salt Lake City liberal

leaning ?

why not go to some local groups and talk to them if you want to understand ?

[JI7]

40. are you trapped where you are ?

[lindysalsagal]

41. OK Jonfers. So, here's my point of view, but it's only mine. We are not a monolith:We're individuals

So, that's point of view #1. Regardless of whether or not you want to admit that you are also an individual, with self-determination and independent powers of critical thinking and determination, you are, in fact, an individual with self-determination and independent powers of critical thinking and determination, just like me.

2. We live in a country that began for the sole purpose of permitting all religions, or none, and to not establish any religion as a state religion.

3. Just as you believe you should be able to live according to your religious beliefs, so do I.

4. Where we differ is in the attempt to use the constructs of government to enforce specific ideologies based on specific ancient relics on those who are not members of that ideological group, by creating and enforcing laws governing many things, including reproduction.

5. I also don't think people who subscribe to worshipping invisible sky beings should be allowed to break the law by not paying taxes. If you can't produce your god, who supposedly overrides human laws, then pay up, Since when does a god require a 7% tax break???

6. I also don't think it's ok to "home school" children so as to better inculcate them in cultish religious doctrine: If your doctrine cannot withstand exposure to public schooling, which, by law, can not and does not influence children religiously, then it's a pretty lame-ass doctrine and needs to be forgotten to the ashes of history.

7. One last place we differ is on old translations of very old books: They prove nothing.

I hope you've noticed that I haven't dickered on details: The details are irrelevant. If any of the churches were right, people wouldn't shop them to find the one that "suits" them. People wouldn't build several churches in one country town when the town has enough trouble supporting one.

I also hope you've noticed that religion is a function of birth location: Born in an arab country? 99% chance you'll be muslim.

Does that help?

[lindysalsagal]

54. You can't refute it, because I didn't make any magical claims about anything or anyone.

I only stated what is measurably in front of us, every day.

When people make claims that there are gods and they impose their will on humans, it's up to them to prove it.

And anyway, why does god need the republicans to impose his laws through ours? Did you ever think that maybe god's a democrat? Democrats are the ones who want to care for the sick, young, and elderly, and feed and house everyone. I think that turns up in most religious texts, doesn't it?

[pnwmom]

43. Not every conservative is a Trump supporter. For example, Jennifer Rubin, Steve Schmidt,

Nicole Wallace, Rick Wilson, and Ana Navarro are all conservatives who oppose Trump.

I understand you are a conservative.

How do you feel about Trump?

[JI7]

48. but those people did not support or vote for Trump. when op was asked if he/she did their answer was

that they can't answer because it would get them banned.

[roamer65]

49. I agree with pnwmom...you need to answer this question.

If you are a Trumpist, then you need to leave.

If you are anti-Trump, then we have common ground.

[roamer65]

53. Being anti-Trump wouldn't get you banned.

Being pro-Trump would. Is that why you won’t answer it?

[pnwmom]

70. Apparently. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. It's rare but maybe he can be persuaded.

[pnwmom]

76. The problem for me is that Trump is a hater. Pure and simple.

His supporters, for whatever reason, have made their peace with supporting a man who has made it his business to promote hate. Who still leads his fans in shouts of "lock her up" at his rallies. Who scapegoats brown and black people whenever he thinks it will make him more popular.

So I don't see a supporter of Trump's belonging here, but it's not up to me to decide.

[Salviati]

55. A provisional welcome

Broadening ones horizons is always a good thing, and everyone could stand to be more versed in other peoples points of view.

I can't fortell your future here, but I can offer some advice:

Read more than you post. I certainly do. If I posted everything I typed out, my post count would probably be 2-3 times higher, but also filled with half written posts. God gave you one mouth and two ears for a reason.

Ease into engagement. Don't expect people to respond to everything or anything you post. That's true of people who are already in agreement with the politics here, and probably more so for your situation. The surefire way to get replies is to post something controversial, but that road would lead to a quick pizza delivery for you - Tombstoned - i.e. banned. If you do end up sticking around for a while, I expect this thread to have the most replies to it than any you'd start for a long time.

In that vein, you probably don't want to start lots of threads, lest people think you're concern trolling or sealioning. My suggestion is to find threads where you agree with the poster, and enter a discussion about that. Maybe you're coming at it from a different angle, and there can be some good synthesis of differing viewpoints. It sounds like you're here for engagement on more significant topics, so pictures of cats is likely not what you're looking for, but something brought you here, so I'd think there's got to be some overlap in what you're thinking and what the prevalent viewpoints here are.

It sounds like you already know what not to do around here if you want to avoid the banhammer, don't get into debates, don't be a jerk in general, and be aware that at this election time, everyones nerves are on the ragged edge, so tread carefully. Don't give the impression that you're trying to waste peoples time, and do give the impression that you're trying to learn.

[LostinRed]

61. Thought you werent supposed to use

Mormon or LDS anymore. Heard there was a rebranding effort.

[elleng]

63. Thanks for trying.

You can read stuff, with no consequences.

[vlyons]

64. I don't want to ban you

But we do have rules that apply to everyone. If you stay within the rules, you should be OK. Time will tell if you're a troll or not. Since this is a Dem forum, we have lots of folks with different viewpoints, and we have been known to disagree, but we're supposed to do it in a consciously respectful way.

Personally, I'm a Buddhist. So I bring that viewpoint. Others here are Christian, Jewish, and some are not religious at all. I find most folks here to be well-educated and knowledgeable about politics and current events. So if you have an open mind, you should be able to learn a thing or two.

[ecstatic]

66. If you really want to understand, research the word "empathy"

It's a concept conservatives don't seem to understand until they themselves are in a tough situation.

[RHMerriman]

69. You know, if there was ever a faith community in this country that should be flaming liberals

You know, if there was ever a faith community in this country that should have been flaming liberals in favor of pluralism, civil rights, and diversity, after Haun's Mill, Nauvoo, and Carthage Jail, it probably should be the LDS... and yet, Mountain Meadows.

And, yes, that was all in the Nineteenth Century, so one would have hoped the lessons would have been learned, but apparently not, if you have to state "I joined the other day, in hopes to try and UNDERSTAND your point of view."

Here's a hint: "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Let's start with that, shall we? If that doesn't make it clear to you, perhaps Matthew 7:12 (KJV) does...

But if not, I'd recommend Matthew 7:5.

[ellie]

72. So you are a republican then?

My question, for Christians who are republicans, How can you sit by and let this administration tear families apart and put children in cages, and then illegally put the children up for adoption?

You can't.

So, until Christian republicans step up and help stop this despicable practice, I do not care what they have to say. The silence from Christians is telling. You are not a Christian if you sit by and do nothing.

[vlyons]

82. absolutely right on!

Silence implies consent.

[LBM20]

77. Understand that we will argue forcefully for what we believe in and will challenge you.

I understand wanting to learn, but also understand that we are VERY frank here, and many of us will be very frank with you.

So let's begin. First, we love our nation, the flag, mom, and apple pie just like "conservatives." However, I hesitate to even call today's Republicans "conservative." It has become the party of Trump which amounts very much to a right wing radical cult. The GOP of Lincoln, TR, Ike, etc. is dead and gone.

We don't think government should do everything, but it should certainly do some things. It should work in everyone's best interest, not just mainly for the rich and privileged. We believe in progressive taxation, middle class economics as opposed to failed trickle down where nothing trickles down, healthcare and retirement security, education, a healthy environment, good wages, equal rights, and respect and welcoming of everyone regardless of race, color, creed, gender, national origin, and sexual preference. We value science and reason.

We see the R party as beholden to the big corporations who buy off the GOP politicians. The GOP has no problem crawling through hurricanes to give tax cuts to the rich while ripping healthcare away from millions as they voted to do.

Trump is a national disgrace and embarrassment. How could a believer in the love of Jesus Christ vote for someone so vile and awful as Trump? It is supremely hypocritical. He is rotten to the very core. I won't count the ways. If you are honest you know it too.

Many of us certainly want to see the GOP crushed at the polls in November. They have turned their souls over to Trump, refuse to keep him in check, and have entirely failed to govern. They must be fired and replaced.

Here is where we are.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

80. So, I want to say this because this thread likely won't end well

I get what you are trying to do. Honestly, I think that's what Skinner (DU head honcho) wanted to accomplish with Discussionist, but it has sadly devolved into a lot of not-very-thought provoking trolling.

It gives me a faint glimmer of hope that Utah has, of late, produced Evan McMullin and Jon Huntsman. These aren't people I necessarily agree with in large measure, but they are people with whom Democrats could have a dialogue; with whom Democrats might be able to find some common ground and make policy.

[kcr]

84. Trumper doesn't like echo chambers? Huh. Lucky for you DU isn't the only website in the world.

And there's only one reason a Trumper has any interest in our echo-chamber. There's a reason we like it that way. Enjoy your stay.

[Stuart G]

85. My guess and my opinion is if you are nutural in arguments....taking neither side..

and not supporting Trump in any way................................................

then no one will give you a hard time..no one will ban you, no one will even argue with you..but that neutrality must be constant... Sure you can be neutral and stay. Perhaps you can ask a question that is neutral....

Question like..."What is it about Warren that appeals to you, and why do you think she would make an outstanding president."....It is a neutral question. and I guarantee that you will learn from us..........
............................................................................................................................................

UNFORTUNATELY....AFTER AWHILE.... if you pay close attention, and listen honestly to the arguements...that is honestly and reflect on them.....got some news for you...........but after a while....you will........are you ready?????????????
After a while you will agree with us...that is correct, you will start to agree that our opinions are the correct opinions to have in this modern selfish world...
.
Do you know why?..........simple...because we care about the rest of the people and the others side is basically selfish...that is why... I would be in favor of you staying if you are not rude or disrespectfull.....but...
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED..., you will end up agreeing with us.. because we favor all of us, and they are selfish assholes...if you stay and listen carefully that will be your conclusion...
...it is that simple....the other side's total point of view is ...selfishness..me and me alone...just look at their leader and what he believes in...you have been warned....!!!!!!!

[still_one]

86. First of all there are Democrats who are members of the LDS. The most prominent one is

Harry Reid

The question is are you supporting Democrats in the midterms in 2018?

If the answer yes, then there shouldn't be an issue.

If the answer is no, then there are more than sufficient political forums out in the internet for those discussion.

[lunasun]

87. Why are mormons so anti gay ? Mormons spent an amazing amount of volunteer time and cash

working to make sure same sex marriage remained not legal a few years ago
For example, church members represented as much as 80 to 90 percent of the early volunteers petitioning voters door-to-door and 50 percent of the campaign funds with Prop 8 in California
Certainly the church has had some unique marriage formations in the past and I would think they more than other groups would understand letting people do "their own thing" . If it's backlash for polygamy being outlawed why turn it around specifically on gays ?
I just always wondered about that and since you are conservative Mormon I thought maybe you could explain the intense focus on homosexuality the religion has had for awhile . Has it changed at all on opinion ? Is it all sects ? The majority?

A second question on what has changed with Mormons and race? I always thought the church strived to be "White and In Gods favor" but a friend of mine was dating a 1/2 Black 1/2 Hispanic Mormon guy in Chicago last year. I kept asking are you sure he's Mormon not Jehovah witness or something ? But she went to Mormon gatherings where it was all POC . Has the church changed some of the restrictions on Blacks in the church or was this a group of outliers ?
It wasn't that long ago that I read really racist comments from leaders like Jeffs.
Same questions again .
Is it just certain sects that were always like that? The majority ?
Is that the right term - sects? Or denominations, or split up by temples ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. Here's a good article on the Mormon shift on race.

http://theconversation.com/mormons-confront-a-history-of-church-racism-95328


Hopefully they will have the same metamorphosis on sexual orientation.

[TlalocW]

89. This whole thing smells iffy

If you're being held captive say, "I believe Louisiana is the Pelican State."

TlalocW