Avenatti

[Are_grits_groceries]

There seem to be a lot of posts these days about Avenatti. Many of them wish that he would go away. I can understand why not having him on center stage would be desirable. He is who he is and none of his actions should be surprising. In addition, he represents Stormy Daniels and the path they take may not always be one that perfectly aligns with what you may consider to be a better one for resisting Trump.

I will always be grateful to them for their actions, especially the earlier ones. For a crucial period of time, Avenatti and Stormy were the only voices breaking through and criticizing Trump. Every time her name came up, people were reminded of just how unsavory The Donald could be.

In addition, they could not be cowed or insulted into a caricature. Trump seemed to be wary of going after them. Their indifference to his attacks bewildered him and disarmed him. He had perfected that method for dealing with adversaries and had never really developed another effective strategy.

They were a constant reminder of Trump’s darker side. Those in the Trump cult would never believe them but for those who still had doubts, this was one problem that would stick to Trump. If not for Avenatti, the only voices seemed to be MSM pieces that seemed to be bewildered by Orangeman. I will never understand why they did not dissect him mercilessly and keep writing stories that would clearly expose his lies. They seemed to think they had to balance the type of stories they wrote about each side. The fact that he was an irredeemable asshole with no good side seemed to escape them.

We do not owe Avenatti donations for some campaign he seems to be planning or votes for any position he desires. He also still deserves to have his actions checked and no free pass if we think he is wrong. However, I also think that Avenatti and Stormy have earned a place on the stage where Trump is presented. She deserves her day in court and I hope they refile their case in some form. They aren’t perfect allies but who is? They are not nearly as bad as some people who should know better. I’m not going to pretend now that they don’t belong on our side. They walked point for a long time.

[Squinch]

1. I totally agree. He is one of the few people on this planet that moves the unindicted co-conspirator

off the headlines, however briefly it may be. I say more power to him.

Also, the voice screaming loudest against him here on DU is a troll. The level of hysteria in that troll's posts tells me that Avenatti hits nerves I want hit.

[Kingofalldems]

7. Nailed it.

[WeekiWater]

2. Useful tool.

That's about it. Asking him to go away is like asking Trump to go away. Wasted breath. His ego will lead the way and hopefully he will do harm to Trump along the way. I do think he is one step away from going Sarandon. Some of his attacks on the Democratic Party have been extremely weak and meant to play toward peoples emotions. If he does run he has already limited himself to that type of voter. Those who simply respond to emotional appeals. I don't think he can walk that back at this point.

Keep it up Avenatti.

[Duppers]

20. Politics is emotional.

I am fighting because I'm angry as HELL over the cheating and corruption perpetrated by the Rethugian party. They're destroying the country and the planet. And we need all the help we can get.

And Avenatti is "one step away from going Sarandon." Really?!
Cast aspersions as you may, I'm not joining.

[WeekiWater]

22. I didn't request that you join me.

I’m not even sure what call to action I made. That is the exact problem with emotions overcoming logic. It interferes with our thought process. What it is is motivational. Politicians throughout history have plated to people’s emotions for their own personal gains. There is very little benefit from being angry for decades or longer. This is not new for the Republican Party. It’s the status quo for them.

[brush]

29. One step from going Sarandon? Ridiculous.

[GoCubsGo]

3. Yep. And, right now, he's just being used as a distraction by Mushroom Dick.

Avenatti and his client are the least of our worries right now. It's sad to see Democrats wasting their time whining about him, when there are FAR MORE pressing things going on now. Our so-called "President", at minimum, looked the other way while the Saudi government murdered a reporter, Social Security and Medicare are about to be gutted, health care is about to become unaffordable for millions, our democracy hangs in the balance... I don't give a flying fuck about Michael Avenetti right now. I'm just glad to have him and Stormy Daniels on our side.

Glad to see you back, Grits. I hope you and your family were spared Florence's wrath.

[MistakenLamb]

4. He is a bully and egomaniac and not the leader anyone needs

Avenatti is only in anything for himself. Completely junvenile and fragile, trashes Democrats for his own advantage, feels the only way to take on Republicans is to act just like them. He like lots of Democrats took the wrong message from Michelle's We Go High remarks. Obama showed how to take on Romney without crawling into the dirt with deplorables, Hillary got 3 Million more votes without having to call people names. Avenatti wants to roll in the mud with them. You dont beat a bully by acting just like them.

[SayitAintSo]

25. He is a fighter... And we are in sore need of Fighters

I've been a member here for over 18 years. I don't post much but I read a lot. And I along with a lot of my dem friends live in the red state of South Carolina and we're all sick of the attacks on Avenetti. Read his position paper. Have an open mind. What Democrats have been doing for years has not been working. I see him as a breath of fresh air and a ray of Hope.

[justie18]

32. Yes!

Yes to all of this.

[oberliner]

5. I totally agree with several of your points

The people who feel that he does not deserve to have his actions checked seem to default to calling people trolls whenever it comes up.

The level of hysteria in some of those screaming about trolls every time any criticism of Avenatti is raised tells me just how important it is to make sure we don't give him a free pass, as you mention.

[Squinch]

8. .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11289735

[oberliner]

17. Thank you for directing people to those links

I hope that people read the other Avenatti-related posts contained therein. Perhaps more folks will come around to the opinions expressed in the most recent OP I posted on the subject written by the former Democratic Party CC chairperson.

[Squinch]

18. You certainly do seem to have an axe to grind against Avenatti.

He clearly bothers you a very great deal.

[oberliner]

19. I can see why one would think that

[LanternWaste]

23. I can see why one would pivot.

[oberliner]

24. So can I

For some reason, there are people who get very defensive with respect to this topic so it seems wise to bear that in mind.

That said, it is a reasonable conclusion that the Avenatti approach is not the one I favor and I am hoping people will consider other perspectives on this topic, such as the points raised by Steve Israel.

I do recognize that there will be some who think otherwise, and I respect those differences of opinion.

[USALiberal]

43. You sound like all DCC members are always right. That is your flaw. Nt

[oberliner]

45. They are not always right

I think in this case (the op-ed I recently posted), Steve Israel makes some good points, though, that are worth considering.

I recognize that some folks don't agree.

[malaise]

6. Thank you sis

Great post

[Heartstrings]

9. I'm just happy he's on our side! nt

[Jarqui]

10. Avenatti helped significantly to get Michael Cohen

In the process, he kicked the snot out of the misogynist and exposed some of his lies in prime time.

When he did that, millions of Cohen's documents ended up in the hands of law enforcement which caused Cohen to flip and may be seen as either a turning point or at the very least, a key event in Mueller's investigation.

Avenatti is like a bull terrier who got a hold of Trump's pant leg. He's snarling and not letting go. He alone can't bring Trump down but he's helping law enforcement catch up to him. Very little good has come from this for Trump.

It took a lot of guts for Stormy and Avenatti to go after Trump who is effectively a mob boss criminal with no ethics or compassion in possession of the strongest levers of power in the world aligned with foreign leaders like Putin or the Saudis who seemingly have no hesitation to murder adversaries.

I have plenty of reservations about whether Avenatti is the best Dem politician there is to offer. He's only getting 1% in the polls so I'm not terribly concerned. But I can't think of any Republicans I'd prefer over him ...

[jberryhill]

27. The investigation of Cohen had nothing to do with Avenatti

The USAO-SDNY received a referral from Mueller before Avenatti ever met Daniels.

The Common Cause complaints with both the DoJ and FEC were filed in February.

What is it, specifically, that makes people believe Avenatti had something to do with instigating or triggering the DoJ investigation of Cohen. I would be interested to know what you believe to be the specific chain of cause and effect.

[Jarqui]

35. Five of the charges he entered a guilty plea for were for tax evasion

I wonder about how much of a warrant the FBI raid could be muster for merely tax evasion of the President's lawyer....

The other three charges related to the payoffs to the women which Avenatti was involved with exposing.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17765954/michael-cohen-trump-stormy-daniels-hush-money-sdny

Avenatti helped to expose the lying and cover-up in the media which would help law enforcement convince a judge to grant those warrants. He had a bunch of the public and media breathing down their necks and the lies documented.

[jberryhill]

37. Avenatti had nothing to do with the warrant application

"Convincing" a judge to grant a search warrant is not particularly difficult, but generally does not involve the judge watching TeeVee.

[Jarqui]

38. He had plenty to do with exposing the basis of the charges

outside of tax evasion

You'll never convince me that judges are not susceptible to media and public scrutiny or other pressures. They don't have to watch TV. Reading the newspaper or listening to the radio will do just fine. Or imagining having to look outside their courtroom at a media mob. Or the pressure they now feel from social media. Of knowing that if they make a wrong call, it can screw any chance for advancement. etc.
Avenatti's involvement on cable news and the front pages ratchets all that up immensely.

[jberryhill]

39. The payoff was already known in January

...when Avenatti was not even on the scene.

Common Cause had already filed this on January 22 with the DoJ:

https://www.commoncause.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/fec-complaint-trump-january-22-2018.pdf

The AG's office already knew that, and had a lot of other information that Avenatti would not have had, in order to file the warrant applications.

It's not as if obtaining a search warrant is any sort of adversarial process. They obviously had probable cause for a number of charges to obtain and execute the warrants.

Avenatti's involvement on cable news and the front pages ratchets all that up immensely.

That's simply nonsense. The judge actually IN the SDNY case gave Avenatti the choice between participating or running a sideshow. Just as obviously, the judge in the CA defamation case didn't feel this "pressure" to keep that suit going either.

[watoos]

36. I know one thing

the right is deathly afraid of Avenatti. He has the ability to change the narrative that is so prevalent in our corporate media. As a matter of fact he created a right wing narrative after he announced he may run for president, the right wing media made it a top priority to bash him.

United we stand, divided we fall. If Avenatti is our nominee I am 100% on board.

[Kurt V.]

11. K&R

well written.

[smirkymonkey]

12. K&R

[bluestarone]

13. AGREE with your comments!!

[Autumn]

14. Agree with that.

[mtnsnake]

15. Wells said.

[calimary]

16. I think he's just fine! I wish more of our Dems were in-yer-face combative like he is.

AND, what I think I love the best about him, he says stuff that sticks. He knows how to turn a phrase that's memorable. And one that often draws a bit of blood. He can put the opponent on the defensive. Frankly, it's psy ops. Being aggressive in his retorts, smart as a whip and FAAAAAST... he reacts and responds almost instantly. He thinks fast on his feet. It's easy to do that when you REALLY know your stuff and have your facts, build that "house on solid rock," not the one built on sand. When you have lots of facts, and expertise, to back you up, and you've been paying attention to what's going on, you can come up with a good comeback in a second or two. Especially if you rehearse it. Anticipate what somebody with whom you find yourself arguing might state as fact. If they're watching a lot of Pox Noise then they're not necessarily well armed in the facts department.

I think Michael Avenatti is doing a lot of things right. He's got the messaging down, he's got the cool, calm, and collected thing VERY much going on. His on-camera appearances are smooth, professional, serious, and informed. Plus compelling. AND - there's something visceral about his gaze. I'm kinda being an arm-chair body language analyst, but I swear, he is telegraphing things with his on-camera or otherwise public behavior. His looks contribute to that because at times, he looks almost feral. Seems tightly wound - adds a note of drama, intensity. You can't take your eyes off him.

And YES YES YES YES this is superficial. You bet your sweet bippy! Superficial as hell. But with most of America processing information visually, and factoring in the short attention spans of many people on the receiving end of the ol' teevee screen, he's like bumper sticker politics on two legs, at times.

That said, I'm realistically not sure he's a reasonable bet as a presidential candidate - although I'd pay to see him debate trump or anybody else. If he did want to run as a Democrat, all the usual suspects would pile on him for who-knows-what reason, as expected. There are some who regard him as just an ambitious spotlight seeker. He's got some baggage now.

Then again, who doesn't?

[Duppers]

21. +100

[LiberalLovinLug]

40. Exactly.

"But with most of America processing information visually, and factoring in the short attention spans of many people on the receiving end of the ol' teevee screen, he's like bumper sticker politics on two legs, at times. "


Democrat politicians could learn a lot from him.

[samnsara]

26. im just glad he is on our side..

[HAB911]

28. This situation reminds me of an earlier fight

Here in my little burg in Central Florida the DOT wanted to build an expressway that no one wanted. Multiple groups formed to fight it. Many wanted the disparate groups to reform into one. My group fought that because then every action would averaged to please everyone. My group was aggressive, others tame.

My group bought the software the DOT used for traffic projections then FOIAed the data set they used and proved they fudged the numbers, all the while others were holding bake sales and pressing the DOT in more conventional ways.

We prevailed and the road was not built.

Point: It takes all kinds. (working to a common goal, the more the merrier, etc)

EOM

[SayitAintSo]

30. Good point...

Good analogy

[brush]

31. Thank you. It does take all kinds. What we've been doing has not worked.

Avenatti's approach is another arrow in the quiver and right now we need it.

Makes one wonder about those constantly attacking him, especially since our years-long, milquetoast methods haven't produced anything but repug dominance in the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House.

Time for a change a change of pace.

[forgotmylogin]

33. We need to remember it was Avenatti's and Clifford's (Stormy Daniel's) case

that managed to pry open the edge of Michael Cohen's closet door...and those skeletons bursting out led to all kinds of new information about Trump's finances.

I almost thought of Avenatti's comments about running for President as a poke at TRMP, and possible bait to make the orange one claim a "sleazy lawyer" isn't qualified so he could counter "neither is a sleazy reality show host". I think Avenatti is just itching to live-debate DJT.

[Turin_C3PO]

34. Well put.

K&R!

[dalton99a]

41. Kick

[LiberalLovinLug]

42. Whomever disses Avenatti, Sanders, or any ally we have are (suspicously) working against the party

As brush said a few posts up, its "another arrow in the quiver". Those who go out of their way to snatch them out and break them are working for the other side.

Some on here are ridiculously puritanical in that if anyone dares to speak out about any improvements they see for the Democratic party, a party that has lost seats all across the country for over a decade, they are put onto their enemies list. No matter how true those criticisms might be. After that capital crime, it makes no matter how much help they could be, how many new voters they could get out to the polls for Democrats.

He told me I had spinach in my teeth!!!!!!! How dare he!!!!!!!!!He's not welcome at my table anymore!!!!!!

[lunatica]

44. Avenatti is a Feminist and a pain in the ass to misogynists

It’s a great combination of which I approve of in any man.

Why can’t people see that? Too many people on our side are purists.