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NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:30 PM Nov 2018

Scarborough on Pelosi






Democrats should be wary of throwing away one of the most disciplined speakers in recent memory. Pick a speaker who is over their head and the House turns into a shit storm fast.
One more thing: Republicans ran against Pelosi this year and had their worst loss since Watergate.
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Scarborough on Pelosi (Original Post) NewJeffCT Nov 2018 OP
Exactly Me. Nov 2018 #1
Some Democrats are buying the Republican's demonization of Pelosi olegramps Nov 2018 #82
Interesting Suggestion On MJ Me. Nov 2018 #89
I would never have thought I would rec something he said. Autumn Nov 2018 #2
he makes sense sometimes NewJeffCT Nov 2018 #4
Partisan politics isn't easy to shake. John Fante Nov 2018 #102
Yes he does DownriverDem Nov 2018 #105
same here Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2018 #5
+1. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2018 #9
I hope I never have to do this again. Autumn Nov 2018 #38
I have to sterilize the keyboard and mouse. Have a good evening. n/t rzemanfl Nov 2018 #39
I know! I feel dirty somehow Celerity Nov 2018 #12
Me too. I need a shower. Autumn Nov 2018 #13
Now I have to agree with Scarborough? I need to go shower. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2018 #17
I felt so dirty. Autumn Nov 2018 #37
Took the words right out of my mouth! lilactime Nov 2018 #19
Same here. Control-Z Nov 2018 #23
+1 spooky3 Nov 2018 #27
I said the same thing to myself susanna Nov 2018 #63
Same here! I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with Joe Scarborough! Rhiannon12866 Nov 2018 #70
The man has a point. dem4decades Nov 2018 #3
Bothers me that I agree with him. irisblue Nov 2018 #6
He makes an excellent point, Irisblue! Cha Nov 2018 #14
Oh yeah Cha, irisblue Nov 2018 #16
IF ever there were a time for someone seasoned and expereinced, this is it. Amaryllis Nov 2018 #7
I trust Pelosi grantcart Nov 2018 #8
So does Elijah.. Cha Nov 2018 #15
Pretty Strong Stuff From Cummings ProfessorGAC Nov 2018 #100
Yes I think it would be a shame Sucha NastyWoman Nov 2018 #109
Totally agree ... people can choose to disregard facts Greywing Nov 2018 #10
JS has some Excellent valid points.. Elijah Cummings does too.. Cha Nov 2018 #11
Yes, Cha. What Elijah Cummings said! peggysue2 Nov 2018 #18
There's always room for Peggysue's comments! Cha Nov 2018 #21
Thanks, Cha! peggysue2 Nov 2018 #32
let's also not forget that @TimRyan threw reproductive rights to the wayside during the ACA fight Cha Nov 2018 #33
+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2018 #112
K n R & Thanks. Great Post Bfd Nov 2018 #22
I've always liked Nancy but Jarqui Nov 2018 #20
Not popular with voters according to who? Bfd Nov 2018 #25
Many polls Jarqui Nov 2018 #31
Ooohh yes. The many polls. Bfd Nov 2018 #34
I think Nate Silver, for example, has a much better take on the meaning of polls than you Jarqui Nov 2018 #43
When I hear those hot takes, I interrogate them. JHan Nov 2018 #46
"Pelosi was brilliant at her job as Speaker" Jarqui Nov 2018 #50
Of course it has be passed, I don't expect her to be there forever.. JHan Nov 2018 #52
What I am talking about is not fair. And a bunch of it is BS. Jarqui Nov 2018 #54
Indeed, much of it is BS, which is why I don't feed the narratives. JHan Nov 2018 #58
I do not see it as 'feeding the narratives' Jarqui Nov 2018 #59
If you understand that the narratives are bullshit and you repeat it anyway.. JHan Nov 2018 #60
Things happen for a reason Jarqui Nov 2018 #61
From what I've read in your comments: JHan Nov 2018 #62
"reject unfair framing of those who represent us" Jarqui Nov 2018 #64
Since I said you acknowledged the smears , why are you saying that I misrepresented you? JHan Nov 2018 #65
"I care that stupid ideas and memes are spread, which undermine " Jarqui Nov 2018 #79
Except in the case of Nancy it is not normal.. JHan Nov 2018 #80
I can't get caught up in the woman leadership thing. Jarqui Nov 2018 #87
Acknowledging the perniciousness of sexism is not "giving her some slack" JHan Nov 2018 #88
Don't do it... don't you break my heart neohippie Nov 2018 #71
Here's the problem I see with that Jarqui Nov 2018 #84
GOP and Putin hate Nancy and fear her EXACTLY the way they did Hillary Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #92
I really don't think the Democrats in Congress should choose leaders based on republican smears. George II Nov 2018 #98
I did not say that they "should choose leaders based on republican smears" Jarqui Nov 2018 #99
Please Define "Rest Of The Country" ProfessorGAC Nov 2018 #101
Obviously, there are some hardcore Republicans that will never vote for a Democrat Jarqui Nov 2018 #103
Then We Disagree ProfessorGAC Nov 2018 #106
I think you have missed the point terribly Jarqui Nov 2018 #107
Dead wrong on Hillary and wrong on Pelosi too. Bfd Nov 2018 #47
they're boilerplate memes accepted and swallowed. JHan Nov 2018 #49
Yes.,. As tho controlled bot's, "likes" or "dislikes" disappeared with 2016 Bfd Nov 2018 #51
What hurt Hillary Clinton is the fact that 22 states combined have the same population.... George II Nov 2018 #97
So then vote for someone else in 2020. Right now, Nancy Pelosi is the woman we need for the job. politicaljunkie41910 Nov 2018 #42
I do not agree with change for the sake of change either. Jarqui Nov 2018 #45
Pelosi has become a hated figure to the Repukes lapfog_1 Nov 2018 #53
I'm not adopting any Repuke talking points Jarqui Nov 2018 #55
and so you propose to replace Pelosi with someone younger lapfog_1 Nov 2018 #56
I do not have a specific person in mind. Jarqui Nov 2018 #57
Not popular with the voters? She's been elected overwhelmingly since the late 1980s: George II Nov 2018 #96
Let's get realistic and look at something meaningful and relevant. Jarqui Nov 2018 #110
Not popular with voters? NastyRiffraff Nov 2018 #108
See my post above Jarqui Nov 2018 #111
Any data on this? NastyRiffraff Nov 2018 #114
Tons Jarqui Nov 2018 #115
Okay I'm done with you. NastyRiffraff Nov 2018 #116
Links to some of these polls were posted by me in this very thread Jarqui Nov 2018 #117
That last statement is smack on. LiberalFighter Nov 2018 #24
With a new Democratic president in 2020... Small-Axe Nov 2018 #26
The thought of anyone else stresses me out. We need her more than ever. Glimmer of Hope Nov 2018 #28
❤ Nancy. Duppers Nov 2018 #29
I'm not taking advice from a Republican RandySF Nov 2018 #30
Bingo-Bango.. disillusioned73 Nov 2018 #76
Scarborough resigned from the GOP a year or two ago NewJeffCT Nov 2018 #83
Trump only attacks her because he fears her. spanone Nov 2018 #35
He endorsed her.. disillusioned73 Nov 2018 #77
oh yes he does. spanone Nov 2018 #86
So true karin_sj Nov 2018 #90
So we are squabbling about who will be speaker after a giant blue wave. Cool StTimofEdenRoc Nov 2018 #36
I remember Scabs *EXCORIATING* Pelosi morning after morning *SCATHINGLY* years back. UTUSN Nov 2018 #40
I want Nancy Pelosi - we need a battle tested General for the times ahead of us these next 2 yrs. iluvtennis Nov 2018 #41
Wow, something I finally agree on w Scarbo. NoMoreRepugs Nov 2018 #44
I now think a lot of the Ryan dust up is Kabuki Theatre but we'll see how it plays out. JHan Nov 2018 #48
Someone should primary Ryan next time. What he has been up to, does OnDoutside Nov 2018 #66
Like you, I'm not terribly impressed by him either. JHan Nov 2018 #67
Yes, that's when I formed my opinion of him. As I said elsewhere, I have OnDoutside Nov 2018 #68
Pelosiwill be re-elected True Blue American Nov 2018 #69
Yep. He's right. calimary Nov 2018 #72
Not to mention the fact Nancy helped many of these new candidates win their seats onetexan Nov 2018 #73
Good point about Republicans running against Pelosi. Every on of them "accused" their Democratic Nitram Nov 2018 #74
I guess Republicans are now running the Democratic causus.. disillusioned73 Nov 2018 #75
He likened dumping Pelosi to the Red Sox dumping Red Sox manager Cora. dem4decades Nov 2018 #78
Morning Joe.... quickesst Nov 2018 #81
since the election, Joe has been consistently against Trump NewJeffCT Nov 2018 #95
He flip-flopped on Trump in 2015 and 2016.... quickesst Nov 2018 #104
"One more thing: Republicans ran against Pelosi this year and had their worst loss since Watergate." workinclasszero Nov 2018 #85
Recent successes may have come zentrum Nov 2018 #91
I support Pelosi! ananda Nov 2018 #93
I agree! This is no time to mess around with inexperience. Little Star Nov 2018 #94
Can't stand to listen to that horse's ass.... Hulk Nov 2018 #113

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
82. Some Democrats are buying the Republican's demonization of Pelosi
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:16 AM
Nov 2018

It is unbelievable that these misguided mediocre members of the Democratic Party would be doing the bidding of the enemy. Strange times indeed. Their only objection to her appointment is that they want new blood. It is not her qualifications which none of them match. I would like to see an influx of younger people, but not at the expense of trusted leadership. They could be shooting themselves in the foot and us along with them.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
89. Interesting Suggestion On MJ
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 11:39 AM
Nov 2018

That some of them are actually interested in the 'we need more white men' approach

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
4. he makes sense sometimes
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:37 PM
Nov 2018

and, he's been pretty consistent since Trump took office. However, before the election, he was stridently anti-Trump one day, and pro Trump the next, depending on the wind

John Fante

(3,479 posts)
102. Partisan politics isn't easy to shake.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:32 PM
Nov 2018

Look at Meghan McCain. Or Ted Cruz. Or Lindsay.

Republicans fall in line, it's what they do.

Rhiannon12866

(205,320 posts)
70. Same here! I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with Joe Scarborough!
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 06:45 AM
Nov 2018

But these days I agree with most of what he says. Back in the day, I turned him off as quickly as I could, didn't want to hear one word out of him!

Cha

(297,196 posts)
14. He makes an excellent point, Irisblue!
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:51 PM
Nov 2018
One more thing: Republicans ran against Pelosi this year and had their worst loss since Watergate.

irisblue

(32,971 posts)
16. Oh yeah Cha,
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:53 PM
Nov 2018

But I think the last time I can remember agreeing with him was years ago. Discomforts me

Sucha NastyWoman

(2,748 posts)
109. Yes I think it would be a shame
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 07:20 PM
Nov 2018

I think Stenny Homer has always been slated to take over when she leaves. I prefer Pelosi.

Greywing

(1,124 posts)
10. Totally agree ... people can choose to disregard facts
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:46 PM
Nov 2018

but Nancy Pelosi has held the Democrats in the House together. We don't need in-fighting right now ... we need a strong leader who knows how to get real work done and that is Nancy Pelosi. Just my $0.02

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
18. Yes, Cha. What Elijah Cummings said!
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:02 PM
Nov 2018

Nothing else needs to be added.

But I will anyway.

As Democrats, we really don't need this ridiculous squabble. We won! Why shoot ourselves in the foot at one of most critical junctures in American history?

Nancy Pelosi can lead us to another win in 2020. I'll place a wager now--we win the WH in 2020, Nancy Pelosi will keep her word and pass the baton. She's referred to herself as a bridge, and that bridge is the near future when the Trumpster vacates the House he's squatting in, a decent, knowledgable, progressive Democrat takes his place and the world begins to make sense again.

We can do this, again. Nancy Pelosi will be a huge help, again.

Which is why Republicans love to demonize Pelosi. Don't take the bait.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
21. There's always room for Peggysue's comments!
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:12 PM
Nov 2018

Well said.. Nancy has bona fides!



Amanpour interviews Congressman-elect Tom Malinowski (D flipped seat that was R since '81)

snip//

I want to play something that maybe speaker, certainly Leader Pelosi said to me in September because a lot of people said well you know what, the Democrats don't really have a message to complete with Make America Great Again.

There's no slogan, there's no clear strategy but this is where she laid out in September.

What we're about in our campaign is that we are for the people, for lower health care costs, lowering prescription drug prices.

We're for raising pay checks, lowering healthcare costs, increasing paychecks by building the infrastructure of America and for cleaning up government to make sure people understand that the people's interest, not the special interests are served here in the United States Capitol.

So there she was laying out a strategy and one that clearly is a winning strategy

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/congressman-elect-tom-malinowski/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11406195

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
32. Thanks, Cha!
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:32 PM
Nov 2018

And yes, that's our girl. Pelosi is effective, works like a dog and can raise huge amounts of money for the very things we care about:

For the people, for lower health care costs, lowering prescription drug prices. . And more, because Pelosi has never made excuses for being a liberal or championing liberal causes of all shapes and sounds. But she's also pragmatic, knows what can and cannot pass because she knows the legislative process backwards and forwards. Once she has something she can run with, she whips her people into shape like a damn rodeo star.

Herding cats is hard!

Republicans know this all too well; they've felt the Pelosi sting. It's about time certain Democrats admitted this and celebrate the fact that this woman is ours and on our side. She's not going to be there--getting the work done--much longer.

But right now, we need her like never before.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
20. I've always liked Nancy but
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:12 PM
Nov 2018

I'd like a change in house leadership by 2020.

She is not popular with voters, has some baggage and new blood is needed.

I don't trust Joe Scarborough or his judgment. Never did. So I won't waste my time on his thoughts.

 

Bfd

(1,406 posts)
25. Not popular with voters according to who?
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:18 PM
Nov 2018

Republican voters? 3rd Party Libertarians & such?
Surely Bet They're Not!!

Thats where the not popular line gets drawn.




Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
31. Many polls
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:26 PM
Nov 2018

Earlier this year, she hit a low among Democrats, for example.

There was a poll today where McConnell did better than she.

I think she has been a great speaker and leader for many years. Most of what she represents are things I support. I still like her and always will. But a key reason for those polls is she has taken a lot of arrows for the party over the years. She is a lightning rod for Republicans to rally against. So by 2020, a fresh new face is needed to help shake that.

 

Bfd

(1,406 posts)
34. Ooohh yes. The many polls.
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:40 PM
Nov 2018

So a random group of 1000 people in America were polled and 55%said they didn't like Pelosi.


The adult population of the United States is 320 million.
(Feb 2018)

Polls sre bullshit, unreliable and unproveable for accuracy .
Who conducted these polls & by whom were the pollsters enlisted?
How & where were these polls conducted?
Fox News? Phone? Facebook?

That's a pretty unreliable source for determining the worth of a person.

There simply must be some other method because this one is useless.




Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
43. I think Nate Silver, for example, has a much better take on the meaning of polls than you
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 11:49 PM
Nov 2018

It's not one poll we're talking about. And it's not just polls we are talking about.

People are unhappy with what has gone on in Washington. They still want change. It is a key factor that hurt Hillary vs Trump because Hillary represented the status quo for a lot of voters vs Trump who did not represent Washington. I supported Hillary but recognized that problem then as I do now.

New Dem leadership in the House will be better perceived by voters as change than Nancy. Nancy has had a 15 year or so run as speaker or minority leader. It is time for someone else to get a chance. If they give a good candidate that chance, there is a better chance of the Dems hanging on to the gains they made in 2018.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
46. When I hear those hot takes, I interrogate them.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:05 AM
Nov 2018

I do not accept them blindingly and go on with them - acquiescence to the way our leaders are framed is a huge part of the problem.

We ought to not be buying into it with hedging and fudging ...

Completely absent in all of this is the push to get Schumer removed, have you bothered to ask yourself why?

And Pelosi was brilliant at her job as Speaker.

And frankly, status quo arguments are fucking moot right now. I'll like to go back to a status quo where democratic norms weren't routinely shit upon, and fundamental civil rights weren't at risk of being lost.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
50. "Pelosi was brilliant at her job as Speaker"
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:16 AM
Nov 2018

I think she is my favorite speaker of my lifetime.
I think she really got Obama's back and I align with her on most positions or issues.
I personally like her.

But the baton needs to be passed for 2020. I'm concerned with how she is perceived by the rest of the country.

As for Schumer, he's a lunch bag let down compared with Harry Reid and arguably a significantly bigger problem than Pelosi. I'm very interested in looking at the alternatives there.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
52. Of course it has be passed, I don't expect her to be there forever..
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:20 AM
Nov 2018

but the pressure on her to leave is greater than anything her colleagues face and that bothers me a big deal.

"Concerned about how she is perceived by the rest of the country" - If you acknowledge that she is skilled, and was good at her job, then the perception of her means facing some ugly isms. Yes I think the problem here is old sexism. So I don't feed the narratives. She's been a convenient scapegoat for Republicans who shame Democrats in races ( particularly male democrats in races) for her being their leader. It doesn't get uglier and more blatant than that.

Schumer also gets a lot of unfair treatment, even compared to McConnell.

It doesn't matter who Dems put, they will be a lightning rod and Republicans will swiftboat them, but our women leaders always have to bear the brunt of it all and it's sickening to watch.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
54. What I am talking about is not fair. And a bunch of it is BS.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:38 AM
Nov 2018

Hillary had done a tremendous job rehabilitating her public image after her loss to Obama in 2008. She did a great job as Secretary of State - was a real trooper, working her butt off, etc. You look at her Gallup numbers at that time - they were really good when she stepped down as SoS.

Then the GOP set their smear sights and the unfairness of Benghazi and her emails and "lock her up!!" ... her numbers took a hit.

Ditto for Obama. Kenyan. Muslim, death panels, etc ... his numbers took a hit. There remain today a significant number of Americans who still think he's a Muslim Kenyan who stole the presidency.

Hillary, Barack and Nancy are examples of public piñatas. They have suffered years of pummeling by the big Citizens United money of the GOP. Some of the crap thrown at them is like a wedge issue where each piece of crap peels a few more votes away. After years of that, some of it sticks, their ceiling as a candidate is lower and it is time for a fresh face.

Hillary, Barack and Nancy took many arrows for the causes I have supported throughout my life. I'm grateful to them. The time has come for someone to take the baton from Nancy over the next couple of years. At the outset, they'll have a higher ceiling as a new face on the national stage. When the GOP are done with them, like Hillary, Barack and Nancy, they'll be cut down to size with a lower ceiling but hopefully, in the interim, they will advance our causes while they have the reins of power in their hands.

This is the cycle of politics.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
59. I do not see it as 'feeding the narratives'
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:02 AM
Nov 2018

I'm not talking up their narratives.
I see it as looking ahead to address the reality: politicians usually do not have good long shelf lives.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
60. If you understand that the narratives are bullshit and you repeat it anyway..
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:03 AM
Nov 2018

you're feeding it.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
61. Things happen for a reason
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:20 AM
Nov 2018

If I am pointing out that Clinton & Obama got smeared, I am not repeating the narrative. I am identifying with specific examples how the smearing over time hurt them as politicians. We could go to the swiftboating of John Kerry or the Willie Horton ad against Michael Dukakis for more examples of smearing - lying about these politicians to damage them politically. We could also look at the trend since they started tracking approval that most presidents leave office with lower approval ratings than when they entered office.

The smearing and the pinata position they are in as politicians wears their approval down.
That is not repeating the narrative - it is partially explaining the political cycle and why leaders need to change over time.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
62. From what I've read in your comments:
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:26 AM
Nov 2018

On the one hand you understand the smears are bad, and unfair and illogical. On the other hand, those same illogical and unfair smears are justification enough to be "concerned".

Like saying.. it's a damn shame Pelosi has to deal with all this bullshit, but because she has to deal with all this bullshit means she's a liability. See I interrogate the bullshit and call it out because I think the better approach should always be to reject unfair framing of those who represent us in the arena.

Of course every leader has a life cycle, that's stating the obvious.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
64. "reject unfair framing of those who represent us"
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:41 AM
Nov 2018

I have to call you on that because you are doing that to me - unfairly framing what I am saying.

By identifying these things as lies or smears, as I have consistently, that describes these smears as "unfair framing of those who represent us". Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Unfortunately, there are a bunch of Americans who will never read what you and I are discussing and will die wrongfully thinking the false smear that Barack Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya. So I do not advocate that we pretend something else is happening with them. There is a political cost to this ugly, dishonest smearing behavior. The GOP has known it for decades and they'll persist until it stops working for them.

We do not have a solution for it. Nothing you have advocated has been effective to date.

So we have to be responsible Democrats, recognize where in the political cycle our leaders are and get ready to do something about it for 2020 - with a change in leadership where justified.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
65. Since I said you acknowledged the smears , why are you saying that I misrepresented you?
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:51 AM
Nov 2018

1) You acknowledged the smears.

yet the smears hold power for you because you are concerned how less informed people buy into them - then the problem is not the people who are the subject of those smears, but low information voters, or people motivated by more sick reasons ( racism , sexism etc) That is the point *I* am making. To be crude about it, I care that stupid ideas and memes are spread, which undermine the party in the long run.

Once more, telling me that politicians have a life cycle is pointing out the obvious - I never argued they didn't have a life cycle, I don't think Nancy Pelosi should be speaker forever. I want her opponents to be serious about putting a challenge to her, instead of expecting her to do the work for them. I WANT effective Democratic congressional leaders and we have had one in Pelosi.

"We do not have a solution for it. Nothing you have advocated has been effective to date." - What advocacy? I am not here as some official advisor to the Democratic Party, we're having a chat on an internet forum about the ways leaders are framed.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
79. "I care that stupid ideas and memes are spread, which undermine "
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:46 AM
Nov 2018

I would go further to say they undermine the country. They smear candidates which leads to voters making choices founded on falsehoods. It is worse than their dishonest ads and rhetoric because we have a propaganda network, FOX, amplifying and repeating the falsehoods.

"What advocacy?"

This advocates how you think it should be dealt with:

" See I interrogate the bullshit and call it out because I think the better approach should always be to reject unfair framing of those who represent us in the arena. "


"we're having a chat on an internet forum about the ways leaders are framed."

It is beyond that because I think we both agree leaders are being framed and the ways mentioned are merely examples - not covering all ways they might be framed.

My point is that this framing of our political leaders is damaging and that damage accumulates over time as does more time in office which also tends to wear down their appeal/approval. Those are reasons why political cycles tend to be considerably shorter than a lifetime. When it comes to considering a change in leadership, we cannot be blinded by our affections for a given leader. We have to recognize how they are perceived by the electorate because their lack of popularity can bring the rest of the party's lesser known candidates down.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
80. Except in the case of Nancy it is not normal..
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:02 AM
Nov 2018

Gephardt ( for example ) faced neither the same expectations nor demonization as Pelosi - I am very interested in this disparity.

I often quote this piece because it expresses far better than I ever could the dynamics I'm seeing - and if we want to talk advocacy this is where MY advocacy comes in as a young woman and why I challenge the narratives, whether it's HRC or Pelosi:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-nancy-pelosi-problem/554048/

Why so much discontent with a woman who has proved so good at her job? Maybe because many Democrats think Pelosi’s unpopularity undermines their chances of winning back the House. Why is she so unpopular? Because powerful women politicians usually are. Therein lies the tragedy. Nancy Pelosi does her job about as well as anyone could. But because she’s a woman, she may not be doing it well enough.

Within days of pelosi’s ascension to House minority leader, in 2003, back when nearly 60 percent of Americans still had no idea who she was, the Republican Party featured her visage—“garish and twisted,” in the words of a magazine article at the time—in an ad against a Democrat running for Congress in Louisiana. The GOP has been using her as a scarecrow ever since. Before the 2010 midterms, the National Republican Congressional Committee cited Pelosi in an astonishing 70 percent of its ads—far more than the percentage that cited Obama. And for good reason: Internal Republican polling showed that Pelosi was far less popular than the president. After Democrats lost their House majority that fall, Congressman Allen Boyd of Florida, whose reelection bid failed, called hers “the face that defeated us in this last election.”

In the run-up to the 2012 elections, according to the Wesleyan Media Project, Republicans invoked Pelosi in television ads seven times as often as they invoked the Senate’s Democratic leader, Harry Reid. Four years after that, in the run-up to 2016, they invoked her three times as often.


*snip*

The Democrats who want Pelosi gone don’t deny her talent. But they say her unpopularity is too heavy a load to bear. “The Republican playbook for the past four election cycles has been very focused, very clear,” Representative Kathleen Rice, a Democrat from New York, insisted after Ossoff’s defeat. “It’s been an attack on our leader. Is it fair? No. Are the attacks accurate? No. But guess what? They work.” Nonpartisan observers agree. As David Wasserman, an editor of “The Cook Political Report,” tweeted after the Georgia loss, “It’s just extremely difficult for Ds to argue benefits of Nancy Pelosi’s fundraising skills still outweigh cost of her presence in GOP ads.”

Not everyone agrees that Pelosi’s unpopularity is a function of gender. Some observers note that her Republican counterpart, Speaker Paul Ryan, is unpopular too: According to HuffPost’s poll aggregator, Americans disapprove of both Ryan and Pelosi by 20 percentage points. But Ryan’s unpopularity tracks his party’s, which Americans disapprove of by 23 points—whereas Pelosi’s disapproval margin is almost twice that of the Democratic Party as a whole. Others chalk up Pelosi’s image problems to her ideology (liberal) and home base (San Francisco). But Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer, a liberal from Brooklyn, has a disapproval margin half as large as hers.


And this right here:

As the management professors Ekaterina Netchaeva, Maryam Kouchaki, and Leah Sheppard noted in a 2015 paper, Americans generally believe “that leaders must necessarily possess attributes such as competitiveness, self-confidence, objectiveness, aggressiveness, and ambitiousness.” But “these leader attributes, though welcomed in a male, are inconsistent with prescriptive female stereotypes of warmth and communality.” In fact, “the mere indication that a female leader is successful in her position leads to increased ratings of her selfishness, deceitfulness, and coldness.”

The more successful Pelosi is—the more she outmaneuvers and dominates her male adversaries—the more threatening she becomes. And the easier it becomes to tar the male Democratic candidates who would serve under her as emasculated yes-men.


It would be comforting to think that Pelosi is alienating because she’s a rich liberal Democrat from San Francisco—not because she’s a woman. Yet despite attributes that should make her endearing to cultural conservatives—she is a Catholic Italian American grandmother of nine who entered politics only after staying home to raise her kids—many Americans greeted her rise with, in the words of the Yale researchers, “contempt, anger, and/or disgust.” It was the same for Hillary Clinton: Her deep religiosity, career-long focus on child welfare, and insistence on keeping her family together in the face of near-unimaginable humiliation didn’t spare her in the 2016 presidential election.

Similarly, if Senator Elizabeth Warren seeks the presidency, she won’t be able to count on help from her working-class Oklahoma roots and anti–Wall Street passion. On the surface, Trump’s “Pocahontas” slur may appear as unrelated to gender as Clinton’s emails did. But the moral outrage that female ambition provokes takes many forms. Already, notes Jennifer Lawless, who directs the Women and Politics Institute at American University, Republicans target Warren far more often than they target her populist doppelgänger, Senator Bernie Sanders. Not coincidentally, according to HuffPost, Americans approve of Sanders by a margin of 24 points—and of Warren by only four points.

A woman will one day make it to the White House. Nancy Pelosi may again become the speaker. But her experience offers an irony and a warning: For women politicians to succeed, they must defeat and outmaneuver men. Yet the better at it they are, the more detested they become.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
87. I can't get caught up in the woman leadership thing.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:54 AM
Nov 2018

Hillary, Michelle, Nancy, Elizabeth, Kamala, etc are good leaders regardless of their sex ... period.

Their color, sex, religion, etc has nothing to do with it for me. They're darn good people. I want the best leader. Whether it is a man or woman means nothing to me. I won't waste my time on that crap.

What matters is their policies - what they stand for - their ability to lead and win. For me, that has nothing to do with the organ between their legs.

Is there misogyny? Absolutely. Does it factor into our politics? Yep.
Will it affect the poll numbers? Probably.

Unfairly, it is probably going to take an exceptional woman to overcome it. Nancy is already exceptional to have attained the position she has. Much like it took an exceptional black man to overcome racism to win the presidency.

I have backed Nancy Pelosi because of what Nancy Pelosi stood for - never because she was a woman. I'm looking for a change in 2020 but not because Nancy is a woman. If I give into "oh, she's a woman so I have to cut her some slack" - then I'm almost as bad as the person who won't give her a chance because she is a woman.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
88. Acknowledging the perniciousness of sexism is not "giving her some slack"
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:59 AM
Nov 2018

or "Oh she's a woman so I have to give some slack" for goodness sake.

It's acknowledging the sexism, acknowledging and accepting that something is wrong - which you have already indicated you seem to get.

I won't be sweeping it under the carpet.

neohippie

(1,142 posts)
71. Don't do it... don't you break my heart
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 07:39 AM
Nov 2018

Look, the GOP has been setting the narrative with Pelosi, they see her as a target for a reason.

Don't let the GOP dictate who we choose as our speaker.

Don't let them win the narrative here, don't do what they want you to do

Go with seniority, experience, a leader that has proven themselves in the trenches, quit doing what the GOP wants you to do, they are tricksters, they want you to think that Pelosi is toxic and needs to go they are in your head and you are giving them rent free space and now you are pushing the GOP narrative here

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
84. Here's the problem I see with that
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:35 AM
Nov 2018
https://www.cookpolitical.com/index.php/analysis/national/national-politics/referendum-trump-or-pelosi
Between 1/1/18 and 10/15/18, there were 109,431 anti-Pelosi ads run.
That is more than the anti-Trump ads.

Ads cost money. If they cost $1000/ad, they sepnt $109 million damaging Pelosi in the first 10.5 months this year.

They're not entirely stupid because the GOP have maintained more than their fair share of controlling the House. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc and these ads work to help the GOP cling to power as the political cycles toss control of the House and Senate back and forth between the two parties.

They spend money on these ads on damaging Pelosi for a reason. In her 15 years as leader, she's been speaker for only four of them. The ads are not the only reason.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/nancy_pelosi_favorableunfavorable-6673.html#polls
Favorability Ratings: U.S. Political Leaders

Chuck Schumer 29.0 43.3 -14.3
Donald Trump 41.0 55.4 -14.4
Nancy Pelosi 28.5 52.0 -23.5
Mitch McConnell 21.8 48.0 -26.2

Those results are based on poll of polls. Sure, Rasmussen and other GOP pollsters have their finger on the scale but Nancy's favorability numbers are badly underwater.

I can't stand McConnell and his numbers seem appropriate or too generous to me.

Nancy is like a war hero to me. She's been in the political trenches as leader for 15 years. She's had terrible lies said about her while steadfastly advocating for policies I support. Throughout it, I've never heard her so much as swear. She is a model of class and integrity - taking the high road when they go low. I'm a fan and I really appreciate her service and will do so for as long as I live. Looking at her numbers, she has taken a lot of arrows for our cause.

She doesn't deserve to be fired. She has a lot of political scars for our benefit.
But what is best for our cause has to come first.
For 2020, I believe a change in leadership is best

Eliot Rosewater

(31,109 posts)
92. GOP and Putin hate Nancy and fear her EXACTLY the way they did Hillary
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:55 PM
Nov 2018

so expect a LOT more of this ATTACKING of her.

George II

(67,782 posts)
98. I really don't think the Democrats in Congress should choose leaders based on republican smears.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 02:46 PM
Nov 2018

From my perspective we should choose them based on their effectiveness.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
99. I did not say that they "should choose leaders based on republican smears"
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:11 PM
Nov 2018

However, their effectiveness tends to get reduced after years in the trenches against the Republicans, in part due to those smears.

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
101. Please Define "Rest Of The Country"
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:18 PM
Nov 2018

If you are including people that wouldn't vote for a democrat with a gun to their head, are you sure we care what they think?

And if we don't care, to what detriment?

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
103. Obviously, there are some hardcore Republicans that will never vote for a Democrat
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:43 PM
Nov 2018

And they are a part of the "rest of the country"
But I think we would agree, as they're not likely to ever vote for a Democrat, they are not of much concern to us when it comes to attracting votes because our odds of getting them are so slim.

Hard core Republicans and hard core Democrats are not enough to win the day. Otherwise, the White House, the House and the Senate would not flip back and forth between parties.

Within the "rest of the country", aside from hardcore Republicans, are independents or third party or Democrats who sometimes vote Republican or Republicans who sometimes vote Democrat. Those are the voters we have to concern ourselves with. And they are more likely to be turned off by Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi (or less devoted) because they are not hard core.

ProfessorGAC

(65,013 posts)
106. Then We Disagree
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:59 PM
Nov 2018

The demonization has taken root in the intractable right
There is no reason for concern
You think the Rs care that we hate the buffoon in the WH?

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
107. I think you have missed the point terribly
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 06:17 PM
Nov 2018

"the rest of the country" is not comprised only of the "intractable right"
That is a simple blunt fact that most can easily grasp.

There is a lot of reason for concern if the popularity/favorability of the speaker is so poor (Nancy is -23 right now which is poor) that it is a turnoff for those in "the rest of the country" who are not within the "intractable right". Because that lack of leadership appeal hinders attracting essential support from "the rest of the country" necessary to control the House (or the Senate or the White House).

Ignoring that is pure foolishness. They have to address it for 2020.

 

Bfd

(1,406 posts)
47. Dead wrong on Hillary and wrong on Pelosi too.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:06 AM
Nov 2018

When all we're given as a reason is slander and negative adjectives, then that's a big tell as to where this bias comes from & who.

All I hear are the same social media & MSM circulated negative scripts from 2016.

You'll have to do much better to convince a Pelosi realist that she is any of those negative descriptive things she is identified as.

I have followed her for years. Applauded her & booed her, yet never have I been shown any reason for anyone other than the Republicans & Koch Libertarians to run a smear campaign full of negative adjectives to unseat her.

Thank you

JHan

(10,173 posts)
49. they're boilerplate memes accepted and swallowed.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:10 AM
Nov 2018

There is no logical sane reason for Nancy's negatives to be high other than some disgusting reasons people love to skirt around.

I've had it up to here with the bullshit.

 

Bfd

(1,406 posts)
51. Yes.,. As tho controlled bot's, "likes" or "dislikes" disappeared with 2016
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:18 AM
Nov 2018

I'll judge her worth by what she has devoted her career to.

Not what some foreign troll farm tells me over & over.

When you ask "Who really is it that doesn't want Pelosi, or Hillary, or Feinstein",. and the trail always leads to the same source, then it is clear who's driving this multi level professional mission to unseat them & why.

To destroy the strength of anything, the balance in the center must be hit hard & repeatedly from the right & from the left until the strongest center link is weakened.

That is how a Democracy falls.


It's from "Toppling a Democracy" 101.
Basic stuff.








George II

(67,782 posts)
97. What hurt Hillary Clinton is the fact that 22 states combined have the same population....
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 02:37 PM
Nov 2018

....as California, but have 95 Electoral Votes vs. California's 55 Electoral Votes.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
42. So then vote for someone else in 2020. Right now, Nancy Pelosi is the woman we need for the job.
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 11:11 PM
Nov 2018

She'll probably be ready to retire by then anyway. Change just for the sake of change is bullshit. We need someone who can outwit McConnell and Nancy is my choice.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
45. I do not agree with change for the sake of change either.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:00 AM
Nov 2018

They have to find a good leader.

A good leader comes in with a much cleaner slate for the average voter. They would not have the higher degree of negatives that Nancy has outside of the Democratic party. She earned those negatives fighting for our causes so I don't hold them against her personally. I am grateful to her. But I'm also looking to consolidate the gains made in 2018. A solid fresh face will help to achieve that more than Nancy having another round.

The time to start looking is now. 2018 election is over. Beto for example, might make a great speaker if he isn't going to run for President in 2020. There are a number of good looking candidates for president that might make a good speaker. There are probably a number in the House now.

It is time to start looking at 2020 and get ready for it.

lapfog_1

(29,199 posts)
53. Pelosi has become a hated figure to the Repukes
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:27 AM
Nov 2018

because of her "San Francisco Values"... but that was ALWAYS code for "gay rights" and "gay agenda" (like being treated equally in housing and the workplace, etc). Guess what... those values are increasingly American Values. Along with universal health care and better wages, etc.

Really, I am so f'ing tired of Repukes using California (blue California) as some sort of anti American hell hole. The rest of the nation is mostly jealous of California and our economy, out diversity, and our many recreational options...

Fuck the rest of America... and there is nothing wrong with Nancy Pelosi (other than she isn't the most dynamic public speaker).

Lets not adopt the Repuke talking points.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
55. I'm not adopting any Repuke talking points
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:42 AM
Nov 2018

Nancy has been and still is a great speaker of the House and leader.

I'm encouraging a look ahead to 2020. We have to if the Dems are to prevail.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
57. I do not have a specific person in mind.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:54 AM
Nov 2018

We're still waiting for election results. It's a little early for me to arrive at a specific person.

I'm not in a panic. I feel very comfortable with Nancy as speaker right now. I truly like and respect her and would have no problem with her continuing in that role going forward.

If they replace her, I will support that person as best as I can - as I always have.

I'm just starting to look around and think about it. By 2020, I'd like to see strong fresh leadership take the reins.

George II

(67,782 posts)
96. Not popular with the voters? She's been elected overwhelmingly since the late 1980s:
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 02:28 PM
Nov 2018

1987 63.3% (her "worst" showing, only time under 71.9!)
1988 76.4
1990 77.2
1992 82.5
1994 81.8
1996 84.3
1998 85.8
2000 84.5
2002 79.6
2004 83.0
2006 80.4
2008 71.9
2010 80.1
2012 74.9
2014 83.3
2016 78.1
2018 85.7

The only "baggage" she has is baggage that has been perpetuated by republicans.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
110. Let's get realistic and look at something meaningful and relevant.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 07:37 PM
Nov 2018

As Speaker of the House or Minority Leader, she is a national leader. It is her results nationally that are a concern.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/nancy_pelosi_favorableunfavorable-6673.html

Her favorability is -23.5 - nine points worse than Trump's approval - more than 10 points worse than when they lost the House in 2012.
The people responding to those polls are not just Republicans. They include Democrats and Independents.

There are reasons for those numbers. The biggest is all the deceitful bashing she has taken from the GOP. So she has taken a lot of punishment for our cause.

She has been a great leader and Democrat. I am a fan and grateful for her service. I have no problem with her continuing short term. She could steady the rudder towards new leadership. But if we want to do well in 2020 and 2022 and hang onto the gains of 2018, we have to give new leadership very serious consideration. Her numbers are so far under water nationally, they're a threat to drag other candidates down with her and the hatred of Trump may not be there to drive folks to the polls in 2020. The GOP use their manufactured hatred of her to get their people out to vote.

Among Democrats, according to Gallup:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244658/democrats-favor-someone-pelosi-speaker.aspx

Before the Democratic Party's wins in Tuesday's elections, which gave them majority control in the House of Representatives, U.S. Democrats said they would prefer to have a new leader in Congress. By 56% to 39%, Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents said Nancy Pelosi should be replaced as their leader in the House rather than kept in that role by being elected the next speaker. These views are similar among Democrats across the ideological spectrum.


In less than 18 months, Nancy will be 80 years old.

Rather than just punting her to the curb, she could be valuable to help make a transition to new leadership. I have great respect for her and think she can still help our cause.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
115. Tons
Fri Nov 16, 2018, 07:00 PM
Nov 2018

Google
1. Pelosi polls

2. Real Clear Politics Pelosi favorability

3. Gallup Pelosi poll

etc

i've linked a number of them in the discussions on this already. You have to get off your fanny and do a little work and reading.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
116. Okay I'm done with you.
Fri Nov 16, 2018, 07:04 PM
Nov 2018

I asked a civil question and you reply with insults. I love the Ignore feature.

Jarqui

(10,123 posts)
117. Links to some of these polls were posted by me in this very thread
Fri Nov 16, 2018, 07:50 PM
Nov 2018

The Real Clear Favorability polls I already posted twice in this very thread.
Gallup poll I already posted in this very thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211430794#post110

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211430794#post84

You have the audacity to ignore my efforts to post those and demand that I post them again?

Enjoy the ignore feature. Should work well for a lazy reader.

 

Small-Axe

(359 posts)
26. With a new Democratic president in 2020...
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:18 PM
Nov 2018

And an even bigger House Democtratic majority, I'd kind of like Nancy Pelosi to stick around for a while to pass legislation with a Democratic Senate majority.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
83. Scarborough resigned from the GOP a year or two ago
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:21 AM
Nov 2018

so, it would be taking advice from an independent now.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
77. He endorsed her..
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:42 AM
Nov 2018

He doesn't fear her.. he knows what she is and knows what he'll get, what he does fear is change...

karin_sj

(808 posts)
90. So true
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:15 PM
Nov 2018

The traitor-in-chief thinks he's using reverse psychology to try and get an inexperienced Speaker in the House instead of one who is highly experienced and effective. Don't fall for it, Democrats!

 

StTimofEdenRoc

(445 posts)
36. So we are squabbling about who will be speaker after a giant blue wave. Cool
Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:48 PM
Nov 2018

for a little while in October I was afraid this would not happen.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
48. I now think a lot of the Ryan dust up is Kabuki Theatre but we'll see how it plays out.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:08 AM
Nov 2018

Scarborough has also been defending her a while now as well.

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
66. Someone should primary Ryan next time. What he has been up to, does
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:27 AM
Nov 2018

nothing for the Democratic party. In fact considering the rebuilding work done over this election cycle, he appears decidedly selfish and tone deaf.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
67. Like you, I'm not terribly impressed by him either.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:29 AM
Nov 2018

I'm okay with a challenge to Pelosi, but these people are jokers. I can see why he failed in his challenge to her.

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
68. Yes, that's when I formed my opinion of him. As I said elsewhere, I have
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 03:50 AM
Nov 2018

long felt he has been a stalking horse, for someone else in the background.....maybe Moulton.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
69. Pelosiwill be re-elected
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 04:52 AM
Nov 2018

But Cummings also said there would be young people in Leadership. Let Nancy get this ship sailing, then turn it over to the newly trained younger.

She already said,” Her tenure would be short!” Let her enjoy taking that gavel back and serve up the Democratic agenda. There is time and her organizational skills are amazing.

We need to quit arguing, enjoy the huge win and rejoice!

calimary

(81,238 posts)
72. Yep. He's right.
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 07:50 AM
Nov 2018

I don’t like having to say that about Joe Scarborough, because I still don’t trust him. But he’s right about this.

Unfortunately, when we met with Kurt Schrader’s staffer yesterday, I was urged beforehand not to bring it up. I did not appreciate that. There was actually one guy there who said if I did so, he’d leave the room. Schrader’s on that small “no to Pelosi” list of self-anointed would-be renegades. I didn’t bust my ass for almost two whole years to get a divisive result like that. We should all be in lockstep together to hit the republi-CONS with an iron-clad united front, NOT a bunch of splinter groups too busy bickering with each other to build on the success of these midterms.

onetexan

(13,040 posts)
73. Not to mention the fact Nancy helped many of these new candidates win their seats
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:05 AM
Nov 2018

and is a fundraising powerhouse. Naysayers "growing list" can be ignored. Somebody tell these newbies we can't afford to factionalize the party. We need to stand firm together if we are to take the Senate and get a Democratic president elected.

Nitram

(22,794 posts)
74. Good point about Republicans running against Pelosi. Every on of them "accused" their Democratic
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:17 AM
Nov 2018

opponent of supporting "Nancy Pelosi's Agenda." They did, and they won. So much for running on a misogynist, racist platform.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
75. I guess Republicans are now running the Democratic causus..
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:36 AM
Nov 2018

ppl seem to forget Scarborough was/is Republican scum... and then there's Trumps own endorsement and House Repubs willing to help out with the "situation".. this is all very normal...

"Rep. Tom Reed (R-N.Y.), the other co-chairman of the Problem Solvers, confirmed to The Hill on Tuesday that there are ongoing discussions about having a handful of Republicans supply Pelosi with votes for Speaker if she agrees to rules changes.

“There is [discussion] and we are awaiting their vote count,” Reed said.

If some Republicans cross the aisle and back Pelosi for Speaker, they will have some cover from the White House. A day after Republicans' midterm drubbing, Trump endorsed Pelosi for Speaker and even suggested some Republicans should vote for her.

“In all fairness, Nancy Pelosi deserves to be chosen Speaker of the House by the Democrats,” Trump tweeted. “If they give her a hard time, perhaps we will add some Republican votes. She has earned this great honor!”

[link:https://thehill.com/homenews/house/416529-new-hurdle-arises-to-pelosis-march-to-speakership|

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
81. Morning Joe....
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:14 AM
Nov 2018

... has been railing against Trump everyday for quite some time, yet many on this thread act as if this is the first time Joe Scarborough has said anything anti Trump. many here are amazed at themselves that they finally agree on something Joe Scarborough said. It must be the first time they've ever watched Morning Joe because he has said probably about a thousand things against Trump that I agree with including this tweet. Feel like a shower after agreeing with something Scarborough said? You gotta be shittin me. I would have to take about a hundred showers a day 5 days a week every time I agreed with something Scarborough said that was anti Trump.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
95. since the election, Joe has been consistently against Trump
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 01:34 PM
Nov 2018

However, in 2015 and 2016, he was against Trump one day and for him the next

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
104. He flip-flopped on Trump in 2015 and 2016....
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:12 PM
Nov 2018

So what? A lot of people did, including some of the liberal media. That's not the point of my previous post. It's not even about politics really. It's about honesty. Re-read my post and tell me where I'm wrong.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
85. "One more thing: Republicans ran against Pelosi this year and had their worst loss since Watergate."
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:40 AM
Nov 2018

Any questions House democrats?

This is a NO BRAINER.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
91. Recent successes may have come
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:36 PM
Nov 2018

.....about more because of Trump than because of Pelosi. He's slowly being revealed to the vast middle.

But my main question is---I think we won because our get out the vote infrastructure was more concentrated and energized than it has been in 20 years.But who let the Democratic infrastructure and our local elections fall into such neglect and disarray in the first place? How did that set of decisions even happen?

The outcome of such local elections determines who's allowed to vote, how and who counts the votes. It keeps things democratic.

I'm so relieved our old time infrastructure is coming back--but why did it ever go away?

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
113. Can't stand to listen to that horse's ass....
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:23 PM
Nov 2018

...but he has this one right.

If the Democrats discover someone as competent and effective as Pelosi, I’m all for having HER pass the baton. As for listening to these evil “female Democrat haters” on fox, the reich wing propaganda machine, and the assholes in the media, repuKKKe and “democrat” alike....fuck them all the way to hell. They are only doing the reich winger’s bidding with casting doubt, suspicion and hatred toward the most effective House Speaker in generations. Fuck them all!!

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