'Unwanted subject': What led a Kirkland yogurt shop to call police on a black man

[MrScorpio]

Byron Ragland is a court-appointed special advocate and a visitation supervisor. He was overseeing an outing between a mother and her son at a frozen-yogurt shop when two police officers showed up and asked him to move along. (Danny Westneat / The Seattle Times)

He turned out to be supervising a parental visit, and is also a nine-year Air Force veteran. But the employees were scared of him and the police asked him to leave anyway.

By Danny Westneat
Seattle Times columnist

When I play the 911 call for Byron Ragland — the emergency call about him — I study his face. I expect that maybe he’ll get angry.

Instead he looks sad. When it ends, after three minutes, he sits back across the table and his eyes mist up a bit.

“What’s my reaction?” he says, after I ask. “My reaction is that this was just another Wednesday.”

It was a week ago Wednesday when Ragland was sitting in a Kirkland Menchie’s, the frozen-yogurt franchise. Ragland, 31, is both a court-appointed special advocate and a visitation supervisor, so his job is to oversee meetings between kids and the parents who have lost custody of them.

That’s what he was doing at the store — he was supervising an outing between a mother and her 12-year-old son. The boy wanted ice cream, so the three drove to Menchie’s, arrived together and had been sitting there for about half an hour, visiting, when Ragland looked up to find two police officers standing at the table.

“They asked me to leave,” Ragland said. “They asked for my ID. They told me the manager had been watching me and wanted me to move along.”

Ragland did “move along,” he says — though that phrase, as if he were a stray dog, made him bristle. The police report reflects that the Kirkland officers were told he was there working. In fact he was legally required to be there overseeing the mother and son.

“Ragland had two associates (female adult and male juvenile) with him, who stated they were there with him for visitation,” the report says. They were asked to leave anyway, and they did.

“Store employees … told me that he had been in the store for a while and did not buy anything, and he was not making them feel comfortable,” says an “unwanted subject” report. The employees “were both thankful that Ragland was gone.”


https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/unwanted-subject-what-led-a-kirkland-yogurt-shop-to-call-police-on-a-black-man/

[dalton99a]

1. "The store owner, Cruz, said the police call had nothing to do with race"

Yeah, right.

[iluvtennis]

20. Yeah right is spot on. Next time he should wear a badge that says -here on court appointed business

with a seal of the court on it. Take that yogurt shop. I used to travel to Seattle quite a bit in the 90s and thought it was much more progressive. I attribute this to the Trump race baiting.

[icymist]

64. When did Kirkland become Seattle?

I seem to have missed that...

[iluvtennis]

68. Sorry, my bad...thought I had read it was suburb of Seattle.

[JonLP24]

70. It is a suburb of Seattle

https://seattle.findwell.com/greater-seattle/

[iluvtennis]

72. Thank you. The pic the another poster posted made it seem like hundreds of miles away from

Seattle.

[Hortensis]

78. Doesn't matter. Society has duds and just plain

troublemakers everywhere.

I just looked at Kirkland, though, and whites are 71+%, Asians 14+%, blacks 1.2%. Add in a troublemaker employee, and chances are that's a fairly complete explanation for the treatment this man received. Those officers' handling of that racist situation is outrageous and totally inexcusable. Hope attention from the Seattle Times and social media embarrasses the community into coming down on their police chief.

[malaise]

45. It never has anything to do with race

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Do better, white people. Damn.

[irisblue]

3. "someone" is about face large lawsuits. nt

[nolabear]

4. I know where that shop is. I'm a little surprised and yet not.

The Seattle area is strange. It’s genuinely liberal ideologically but oddly segregated in reality. I see many people of various ethnic backgrounds and religions and people do have friendships and relationships but people in general tend to be cool and not casually friendly and interactive. There’s not a big black population and in Kirkland there’s REALLY not much of a black population. So people think of themselves as unbiased in part because those biases aren’t challenged. It’s SO easy to live here. And there’s so little of the juice that drives life. IMO we trade “niceness” for kindness and it gets lonely. I feel bad for that man.

[Shrike47]

5. This is just a shame.

[Kittycow]

6. I wonder if the cops could be construed as interfering with

an officer of the court?

Reading the damning Yelp reviews was satisfying at least.

[Merlot]

10. Hopfully the damning yelp reviews will put a large dent in their income

if not close them down altogether. If yelp reviews are our only recourse, so be it.

[Kittycow]

11. Twitter condemnation is even better.

It's not censored like Yelp sometimes gets around to doing.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. So if you're doing "something" it's just as "suspicious" as if you're

doing "nothing". Got it. I'll be sure to remember that next time my mere presence offends white folks.

[MineralMan]

8. Yet another moronic "doing something while black" story.

A guy was doing his job, protecting children from a parent who has been judged to need supervision during visits. But, he didn't order any frozen yogurt, so he "didn't belong" there? Maybe he's lactose-intolerant, but had to accompany the parent and children, by order of the court.

And the police, instead of explaining to the store employees why he was there, told him to leave. Someone's just not thinking clearly, and all because he's a young black man.

Feh!

[erronis]

25. We're expecting the run-of-the-mill police to do some independent thinking?

They normally think with emotions, adrenaline, and finger triggers.

I've lived in several other "western, civilized" countries and haven't seen such a quick reaction to be violent or accusatory as with the US.

[MineralMan]

27. It's the culture of racism.

A lot of cops see pretty much everyone who isn't white, doesn't drive a nice car, or who doesn't look or talk like the majority as the enemy. It's deeply ingrained in police culture. It's them or us, and people of color are "them." They are "others."

Until that changes, which seems unlikely, stories like this one will continue to be told. Change will have to come from the top, through official intolerance of racism and treating "others" as criminals on sight.

[TeamPooka]

9. Fuck Menchies and fuck the police for Enforcing feelings instead of laws

[LakeArenal]

28. Great comment!

[dembotoz]

12. kirkland is also the store brand at costco...this was not costco

[snort]

14. That's where the name comes from.

Time for some yelping.

[dembotoz]

29. Have fun

[RainCaster]

13. That little shop should be avoided--updated and very different

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2018, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

We don't want them to be offended by having customers do we?

Update:
After seeing more details of this on king5, I have changed my opinion on this story. The owner who made the call sounded like he was concerned about the safety of his customers. Here's this stranger just hanging out and watching the mom and kid. Keeping a distance, but obviously watching them. Should he have asked the man (kindly) about his intentions? Yes, but as a Filipino, being direct is not part of his culture. So he called the cops. Certainly not unreasonable upon further reflection.

[2naSalit]

76. Heavens, no!

[karin_sj]

15. This is disgusting and sickening

It makes me sick that people could treat this man so horribly—for no reason at all. And for the police to go along with it it even more reprehensible. When will this shit end?

[ismnotwasm]

16. Fucking Kirkland

Fucking everywhere.

I don’t go out that way much but I won’t be visiting that place and I’m putting this on my social media.

[cwydro]

17. What is it with the west coast?

[ismnotwasm]

18. Lots of fairly segregated middle-to upper class white folks

The kind that actually would go to a yogurt shop, and be startled to see a black face.

[uponit7771]

75. +1, lack of exposure plays such a huge part in thought process's even with progressive people

[obamanut2012]

42. +1

[The empressof all]

19. The Cops did not handle this appropriately at all.

I know this shop and area well. My understanding of this situation was the two teen age female workers observed this man sitting in the shop for a half hour. He did not order anything and was looking at his phone and at another customer and her child and not interacting with them. His behavior seemed odd to them and after a while they called the owner who called the police. We teach our children to be observant and to trust their instincts and to contact authorities if they feel uncomfortable and unsafe. If a customer is in a shop, not ordering and watching another customer it seems reasonable that they might feel uncomfortable. After assessing the situation the Police should not have removed him of course. I know that members of the City Council are looking into what happened here and that the police officers actions will be reviewed. Citizens of the town are not happy with the actions of the police here and will not let this slide....

[LisaM]

22. Thank you for your neutral assessment.

I completely agree that the cops messed up, and I also agree that there are really mixed signals sent out about "see something say something" and common sense. It's very unfortunate. I would also question why the yogurt shop was in the hands of two teens. Teenagers don't always make the best decisions. I see this at our local Subway, often the only person on the premises seems to be one young woman.

[Blue_true]

31. I recently met a commonsense police officer that used his head and the law to resolve a situation.

I was not involved in the situation, but I did make the 911 call. The police officer talked to everyone, stated what the law required and then resolved the situation by staying within the law, no one was arrested and everyone went about their lives. It isn't normal for me to interact with police, but I made the call to stop a threatening situation to another person. After I recollected on the situation, the police officer seemed like a decent person, so after thinking about the situation, it isn't surprising that he took the time to resolve things.

[erronis]

26. +1 - Agree and hope that the police reactions will be reviewed and corrected.

[atreides1]

35. Okay

"We teach our children to be observant and to trust their instincts and to contact authorities if they feel uncomfortable and unsafe. If a customer is in a shop, not ordering and watching another customer it seems reasonable that they might feel uncomfortable."

So, what you're saying is that the two teenage females would have done this if the customer had been white instead of black?

I have to wonder what it was that made them feel uncomfortable and unsafe, would you know?

The missing piece of this puzzle is what did they tell the store owner and what did he tell the police?

[Wintryjade]

36. Not knowing he is with the other two and sitting there looking at the phone would have me speak out.

If a person came into my business, not sitting with the other two, but away, not ordering the product and periodically looking at woman and kid, I would speak up. Geez, if he came in, sat down, and went onto the phone without looking at the others, I would have spoken up.

What the business owner should have done was told one of the employees to ask him why he was in the shop and if there was anything he needed. If loitering, ask him to leave.

The go to should not be calling the cops. If the kids are old enough to have a job, they are old enough to learn how to speak up and ask a potential customer if there was anything he needed. At that point the man would have told them that he was hanging because the kid wanted the ice cream.

Easy peasy. No one learned anything from this.

[JonLP24]

65. He was required to be with them

They should mind their own business.

[Blue_playwright]

84. Wintryjade is right though

Someone sitting in my restaurant not ordering, eating, or seeming to have direction would have had at least two employees checking on him to make sure “they weren’t going hungry” or if they were waiting on another part of their group.

Sometimes there’s a car broken down and they are waiting for help - then we might feed them to make their day suck less. I’ve had homeless guys come in and sit because they are having a heart attack or are sick and we were able to get an ambulance out after we checked on them ... We would have offered that social worker at least a drink once we realized what he was doing. You don’t generally let someone just sit in a restaurant- if not cause it’s weird, but just to be hospitable. It’s kind. Those folks were not kind.

Quick note: my hubby used to do those supervised visits? The kind they talk about in that article sound like final visits. Mom had likely lost custody and that might have been one of the last visits they would ever have. Those folks in the restaurant may have ruined that child’s last visit with a birth parent due to their stupid fear. It’s a bad day anyway but they just turned a bitter sweet nightmare sour.

I cannot believe the police didn’t tell the restaurant folks to back off, it was a supervised final visit, explaining what was happening, and ask them to have some compassion. Geez, cops should know what a noncustodial supervised visit is and means.

I’m just blown away by the stupidity of these folks. That’s not how to run a restaurant or treat a traumatized child.

[JonLP24]

85. If the people who he was with ordered something and he is with them

He doesn't need to be kicked out. I could walk into a McDonald's with someone they order something and I sit with them the whole time. That is the part I don't get it. Were the people he was with paying customers?

[Ms. Toad]

86. He wasn't visibly with them.

He came in at the same time, but he was sitting by himself (to avoid intruding) watching them (as he is required to do).

[ismnotwasm]

39. The only real question is

Would they have called the cops on a white man of similar attire.

[The empressof all]

41. We will never know that

The cops however are called to that area on a regular basis as there is a higher incident of crime, drug abuse and people exhibiting mental health issues in that strip mall. Kirkland is by no means a hot bed of crime however that particular area does see more police action than the rest of the community. The police here were clearly in the wrong.

[ismnotwasm]

48. Haven't been to Kirkland in a while

I live in White Center in West Seattle —it’s a fair mix of people, both the employed and shoppers. Lots of crime. Lots of homeless, next to the rebuilt affordable housing that used to be projects. It would hard to parse out race as a factor in any arrest or police interaction. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen

Still, my particular street while diverse,
isn’t as diverse as I’d like, and when I go over toward California ave. I can go into a restaurant and see nothing but white people. This saddens me

[The empressof all]

49. Yes, I agree

Last edited Sat Nov 17, 2018, 05:02 PM - Edit history (3)

White Center and Burien are gentrifying pretty quickly as housing closer into Seattle becomes less and less affordable. My own little neighborhood in Kirkland is fairly diverse. We have a lot of high tech money folks moving in. Kirkland has a fairly large international population so it's not uncommon to see different cultures here. I can guarantee he wasn't the first person of color to step into that store. No Community is untouched by racism...but in this particular incident with the workers at the Yogurt Shop it wouldn't be my initial assumption that there was racial bias. The police response is a different story. Their response seems to have been an over reaction to something.

[happy feet]

82. NO, they would not have.

[octoberlib]

77. The question is, if this were a white man

glancing at his phone and watching people, would they have felt as uncomfortable and called their manager?

[pazzyanne]

79. I spent the past 30 years working with people with cognitive disablilities

and have had multiple staff whose job is to take their clients into the community. Many of those staff have been people of color. Never have they had the police called on them while performing their job duties. As for the staff person's not being in direct contact with his clients in this case, his job was to provide low key supervision for a reason. He was doing his job, end of story. I agree, that the police should not have removed him, and in so doing that, called attention to the two people he was monitoring. Very bad optics/ police actions in my opinion.

[lamp_shade]

21. Check all the reviews and comments on YELP....

https://www.yelp.com/biz/menchies-kirkland-10

[dalton99a]

24. +1. Racist behavior can be hazardous to your business

[yardwork]

23. I want to take action. This is wrong and I'm sick of it.

[pnwmom]

30. This is maddening. n/t

[Maggiemayhem]

32. He should have informed the staff what he was doing beforehand.

That would go a long way to avoid such misunderstandings. And the staff should be brave enough to ask them if they were suspicious. People are so unfriendly and scared anymore. Stop calling the cops for ordinary happenings. Save the police calls for reporting criminal behavior. How old were the two female employeess? Lack of experience and lack of training.

[procon]

40. No, its none of their business. Would every customer have to do that?

And he probably would be violating all kinds of laws about privacy rights and protection of a minor child if he devulged privileged information.

[obamanut2012]

44. It was none of their business

He had no legal or ethical reason to tell them anything, and it very well could have been a legal privacy issue if he HAD said something. The owner had no reason to call the cops, and should have directed the TEENS he left in charge of the store to go nicely ask the man if they could get him a water or anything. The only reason the kids and owner called is because he was a black male, period. He is not sketchy looking or sounding at all.

The cops should have backed the fuck off once he informed them he was an OFFICER OF THE COURT. They, again, only did what they did because he was black, as were his legal charges. They should be severely disciplined, and the Mechie's owner should lose his franchise.

[malaise]

46. Why?

That'sBS

[yardwork]

50. What? A customer should call ahead to get permission to visit an ice cream shop?

What?

[skypilot]

52. No. Just no.

[pazzyanne]

80. Maggiemayhem, people who are supervising visitations have privacy policies they have to follow.

When questioned by the police they can disclose some of their own personal information, but cannot disclose their clients information to others. If the police had arrested this gentleman, they would have been putting his young client at risk, as keeping that young person safe was his job. That is why it is called supervised visitation.

[MountCleaners]

33. The person who called police and the officers should be exposed

We should have their names and pictures. I want this person fired, and the officers held accountable.

People will just shrug their shoulders or sigh at this, but that is not enough. They interfered with someone in the process of doing his job. I'm tired of the way people read this stuff and maybe feel sad about it, but nothing gets done beyond reacting to it on the internet. There need to be consequences. He had every right to be there.

[griloco]

34. Well, he is Black and the two Yogurt Yolandas afflicted with POCfrightitis

showed remarkable restraint in not approaching their table and asking--oh, I don't know--, "How many scoops of the best yogurt west of the Mississippi they'd like?"

[Scurrilous]

37. K&R

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

38. WAIT A MINUTE - what is the rest of the story? The article says kid wanted ice cream, so didnt

they get the ice cream once they were at the shop????

If they did, then the store employers claiming they "didnt buy anything" are full of BS and should be prosecuted for abusing 911.

If they didnt, then just informing the customerof their policy is all that needs to happen, assuming its uniformly applied to all customers regardless of race.

Either way, theres a crucial piece of the story missing. Hate that when they miss a crucial piece of information.

[Ms. Toad]

66. Mom and kid, or at least kid, bought ice cream. The visit supervisor did not -

and was not sitting with them, but was watching them (entirely appropriate -so as to avoid being intrusive, but doing his job, which is supervising the visit.

[Maeve]

43. A good book on this general issue--by Chris Hayes

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35167682-a-colony-in-a-nation

Hayes contends our country has fractured in two: the Colony and the Nation. In the Nation, we venerate the law. In the Colony, we obsess over order, fear trumps civil rights, and aggressive policing resembles occupation. A Colony in a Nation explains how a country founded on justice now looks like something uncomfortably close to a police state. How and why did Americans build a system where conditions in Ferguson and West Baltimore mirror those that sparked the American Revolution?

[Captain Stern]

47. I don't have a problem with the cops being called in this case.

The employees evidently didn't know why he was there. All they could see was that he came in, didn't order, and was staring at some other customers.

When things went to shit is after the cops got there.

What should have happened is that when the man identified himself and explained the situation, and it was affirmed by the mother and her son, the police should have apologized, and then told the employees what was going on. At that point, I would think that the manager on duty would also apologize for the misunderstanding, and give them all something on the house.

[mac2766]

51. Now that just makes way too much sense...

What's with all of the common sense in your post? We can't have that.

We need to be terrified of everyone and extremely angry all of the time. We need to totally over-react to every situation regardless of its severity. And scream at people. Yes... screaming is good too.

Sheesh

(That was sarcasm by the way. I totally agree with your post)

I took a look at all of the yelp reviews. I'm not sure how long this shop is going to be able to stay open.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

53. Since when do cops need to be called when someone hasnt ordered in a certain amt of time??? Just

tell the customer what the policy is and stop wasting the cops time.

If they were too scared of a "scary" black man to ask a simple question ("can I take your order, Sir?" would be a good way to phrase it) then they have no business being in business.

[Captain Stern]

54. I agree with you, if this is a place where staff takes orders at the tables.

If this is a place where waiters or waitresses take orders at the tables, then I agree with you 100%.

If this is a place where the customers order at the counter, and then go seat themselves, then I don't agree with you.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

56. You want an answer to your question then you go ask them. You want to inform them of your

policy then you go over and tell them. You want them to order something, then you ask them what they want to order.

You dont frikken call the cops!

Have you never worked in a restaurant or a public place? These are all simple things that can be communicated in a friendly non confrontational way.

[Captain Stern]

57. That works great in a perfect world.

But, we don't live in a perfect world, so we have to deal with the one that we actually live in...not the one that we'd like to.

My understanding is that the employees in the store were teenagers. They observed a grown man sit down, not order, and stare at a woman and a child. I can see how that would look suspicious to them, and I can see why they might be scared to confront the man.

Them calling the cops didn't cause any harm to anyone. It was the the things that happened after the cops arrived that caused harm. If things had been handled properly after the police had arrived, you and I wouldn't even be discussing this, because we wouldn't have heard of it.

[BlueWI]

61. Didn't cause any harm?

Way to rationalize racism.

Unless there is a policy that specifies no seating without a purchase, leaving a situation like this as a judgement call of a likely all white team reinforces discrimination. Research is vast and convincing on the influence of unconscious bias over everyday assumptions, which works to the disadvantage of equitable treatment for black people in all kinds of situations. I hope that the consequence of this incident is that more businesses make and post clear policies covering this situation.

There's also all kinds of research on the health consequences of racism. When you can't sit in a place of business without the police being called, that's a sign of racial intolerance. When we on DU can't see the harm of calling the police when a simple question to the patron does the job, that's also an attitude that makes rampant racism continue. Do we really think that every black person is so scary that they can't be approached without an armed guard? And are you really rationalizing that attitude?

Supposedly, we're the nonracist resistance. We still need to educate ourselves on the basics of how racism works.

[Captain Stern]

62. I didn't say it didn't cause any harm. I said it did cause harm.

I clearly said "It was the the things that happened after the cops arrived that caused harm." .......it's still there... you can go back, and read it.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but that doesn't change what happened in this particular case. The employees thought it was weird the guy came in, didn't order, and kept looking at the mom and her kid. Maybe they wouldn't have called the cops if the guy was white...I don't know, but I'd understand if they had.

The real problem here is that even AFTER the cops knew the facts of the situation, they still asked the guy to leave. That isn't a matter of an unconscious bias, or a failure to ask a simple question. It's just straight up wrong.

[happy feet]

81. You're missing the point

The cops causing harm would not have happened without the calls to police. After the police were told why he was there (doing his JOB), they asked he leave anyway because the employees who called police were still uncomfortable with his presence.

[pnwmom]

94. No, this wasn't just about sitting without ordering. It was about possible stalking.

When man follows a woman into a restaurant, doesn't order anything, but sits separately and just watches her, it could be concerning -- no matter what the race of the man.

Where this event went haywire was with the police tossing him out even after they found out he had a legitimate purpose for closely watching the mother and child.

[JonLP24]

63. They were glad when he was taken away

That is a clue to their intent and behavior.

"were both thankful that Ragland was gone.”

[LisaL]

73. I am assuming police didn't explain anything to them.

I think there is definitely is a problem with what police did. Once they knew the guy had a legit reason to be there, they should have left him alone.

[JonLP24]

74. He says it was just another Wednesday for him

I wonder why he would say something like that? Uncomfortable is another clue.

[pnwmom]

93. It wasn't just that. It was the way he was sitting and watching

the woman and her child, AND not ordering. It wasn't obvious what his purpose was.

[pnwmom]

92. Yes. This is just what should have happened.

It wasn't terrible that the teenage employees were concerned about the man's actions. But when the police arrived and spoke to the three, that should have been the end of it -- with an apology.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

55. "Can I take your order, Sir?" Simple question. Then depending on response either

help him with his purchase, or inform him of policy that seating is for paying customers only.

Pretty pathetic if employees cant even manage this simple interaction. Sounds like this group was just involved in talking and hadnt yet gotten around to the purchase.

This article leaves me with more questions than answers.

"He was not making them feel comfortable????" What about the presence of a woman and kid at his table who hadnt ordered anything either? It was only the "scarey" black man that made them feel uncomfortable??

I dont care if these employees were teens or young people. Still old enough to start knowing their way around in the world.

Generally a black man dressed middle class and in the company of a woman and boy in broad daylight in public isnt gonna rob you!!!! I mean if youre gonna be paranoid about black men, at least have some common sense about it. Sheesh.

[LisaL]

69. It's a self serving place as far as I can tell, they don't take orders there.

You go, you fill your cup yourself, and then pay.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

88. YES I KNOW. Just saying "may I help you" is a non confrontational way to approach a customer to

see what they're up to and give you opportunity to inform them of store policy. Offer to help them with their purchase, let them know its self serve even if you think it should be glaringly obvious to anyone. The point is to make contact in a nonconfrontational way, and give them the opportunity to explain why theyre not ordering.

ANYONE in service industry should know "may I help you." If they cant manage it, then go find another job.

If its that sketchy a neighborhood and the teenage employees too fragile to interact with "scarey" black men (questionable premise - the ones I know are utterly fearless) then maybe the manager needs to be onsite so he can handle these things.

[pnwmom]

95. He was sitting at a separate table, just watching them.

My impression was that they did order something.

[erpowers]

58. What Is Wrong With People In This Country

How could anyone be scared of this guy? I realize that looks can be deceiving, but that guy does not look dangerous, or scary.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

60. WHERE does it say anything about guy sitting separately and staring at people? Either yall are

fantasizing, or youre reading something besides what I'm reading, which is......


"The boy wanted ice cream, so the three drove to Menchie’s, arrived together and had been sitting there for about half an hour, visiting, when Ragland looked up to find two police officers standing at the table."

Key phrase " the three drove to Menchie’s, arrived together and had been sitting there for about half an hour, visiting"

[betsuni]

67. Says in the article he was sitting adjacent to the mother and child.

The part you quote is misleading. They arrived together but it was the mother and son who were "visiting." The two teenaged white girls working there said he was looking at his phone, looking at the mother and son, looking at his phone, looking at back at them.

[LisaL]

71. He was sitting at a separate table.

There are small round tables. He was sitting alone, and mother and child were sitting at a different table.

[Ms. Toad]

87. Listen to the 911 call. He was sitting at a table by himself.

Which makes sense, since he is required to be present - but the family also needs some privacy.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

89. Well OK, still have to insist that the onus really is on the store to initiate an interaction to

find out whats going on before calling 911 - WHICH IS FOR EMERGENCIES.

Didn't we establish with the Starbucks incident that a customer not ordering is NOT AN EMERGENCY?

Maybe the manager needs to be onsite if its that sketchy a neighborhood and the teenage employees too fragile to handle it.

[Ms. Toad]

90. I was only addressing your contention that people sere making it up. n/t

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

91. Understood - thx nt

[marble falls]

83. Jebus Crisp.What's wrong with people who look like me? This crap is just plain wrong.