These Avenatti post have got to be trolling!

[GulfCoast66]

I just do not do OPs because I don't normally have anything that I think is of value. But all the post about this guy for the last 6 months is really pissing me off.

So this dude represents a porn star that Donald Trump fucked. And then in public defense of his client he goes on a twitter war with Trump and all the talking heads have him on because, you know, Porn Star. And he loves the publicity as defense lawyer do, for good reason.

So now he is representative of the Democratic Party? Total Bullshit.

I can't believe there are still so many post about him on DU, and even people here talking about him as a Democratic candidate for president? It boggles the mind.

Meanwhile, we have real public servants like Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Marcia Fudge and so many more fighting to right this totally fucked ship of state?

I for one will fight against the attempt to turn DU into a reality TV talking platform. I am going to post a version of this post on every Avenatti OP that my time allows.

I love DU because it is a group of serious thinkers talking about serious subjects.

Stop talking about this clown.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. So you start... oh never mind

[Kajun Gal]

5. Really...I get what you're saying without saying it....

[GulfCoast66]

9. I get your point. And it has validity.

I thought it about before posting.

But my dismay with the attention this guy is getting on DU overrode my trepidation about the post.

This is not a man, in my opinion, the Democratic Party wants to be associated with.

[SixString]

46. I come to DU for the unsolicited advice...

and scolding.

It makes me feel like a kid again.



Just in case.

.

[GulfCoast66]

49. Even though aimed at me. That's funny.

[SixString]

50. It's more about DU in general.

And I get your point about Avenatti..

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Bookmarking for later warmth

...'cause this will be flaming like Sterno in no time.

[TheBlackAdder]

19. Add a spoon with this OP and one could freebase some Democratic Party descension from it.

[Yosemito]

3. What if he's being falsely accused of domestic violence?

Would that bother you?

[USALiberal]

7. Not sure why all the haters. Anyone who calls out Trump is a friend of mine. nt

[Hoyt]

35. There is that. He deserves credit for dogging trump. But, running for Prez?

[GulfCoast66]

12. My post and discomfort with him has nothing to do with that

I just don’t want the lawyer of a Porn Star being my voice. My consternation goes back months.

Not necessarily attacking porn, although it is an industry that exploites women. But every time he is on the air it prevents a real representative of the Democratic Party from being there.

And tying our message to a porn star lawyer is not a winning strategy.

[Yosemito]

14. Most threads about him today are about the allegation

Are you sure you don't want people to defend him on this legal battle because you simply dislike him?

[GulfCoast66]

16. My beef is that the guy gets so much air time representing or positions

You hang out as a defense attorney in his field you are going to get smeared, justifiably or not.

But do you really want him as a voice against Donald trump? I mean, glad he hates him and all. But do not tie me to the guy. And do not tie the Democratic Party to the guy. That is a losing strategy.

[Squinch]

43. Who is tying YOU to the guy? No one. He is a voice against trump, a loud one, one

that a) cuts through the media's trump fog and b) makes trump go apeshit.

For those reasons I love him. Do I want him as a voice against trump? Of course I do. I want anyone and everyone to be voices against trump. Why don't you?

And what do you mean by "you hang out as a defense attorney?" Hang out? What does that mean? He IS a defense attorney. Is that a problem for you? If so why? And if he gets smeared, you think it should just be accepted?

And by the way, no one is calling him the voice of the Democratic party other than you.

And about your order that we stop talking about him, buzz off.

[7962]

21. Then he should go after whoever did it. But he's still got all the OTHER decisions against him.

Evictions, Judgements, unpaid taxes. All in the millions of dollars.
He's dirty. But he gets a pass because trump hates him

[Oneironaut]

4. I totally agree. He's a complete dirtbag.

The only real question is, why Avenatti didn't have a controversy sooner? He looks like the type of person that would steal your kidney if you stopped looking at him for a second.

[luvtheGWN]

59. Why? Because he's bald?

Because he has an Italian name?

Because he courts publicity on behalf of his clients?

Because, as a defence attorney, he uses every avenue to defend his client?

Says more about you than about him. Sorry.

[jberryhill]

67. Defense attorney?

I know he has represented plaintiffs in various civil cases, but I am unfamiliar with his activities as either a civil or criminal defense attorney.

Could you identify anyone he has defended from anything?

[Oneironaut]

69. Yup - I am feverishly anti-bald people.

Sorry - I'm not having any of his BS. We already have one populist in the White House.

[USALiberal]

6. No, I'll keep talking about him. And maybe will do it more often now. nt

[GulfCoast66]

10. As you are welcome to do.

But look for my posts criticizing the man in the responses. Reasonable people can disagree.

[Hoyt]

36. Exactly, and that will get at least an alert. n/t

[GulfCoast66]

42. Hoyt. You are one of the reason I love DU.

We have forcefully disagreed on some subjects. But come together on others. A concentration of the Democratic Party. Hope this get in before my OP gets hid!

[GulfCoast66]

37. Oh well. It would put to rest the idea that he is not a Democratic figure

On DU.

I never gave it a thought. I have a good many posts now and try not to break the rules

[Squinch]

72. Lots of hair on fire hysteria over how awful it is that a two day old

post is likely to be hidden. And how terrible that makes DU.

[pintobean]

88. The post I replied to was

eight and a half hours old at the time, not two days old. This whole thread is only 21 hours old now.

[Squinch]

89. And it is so terrible how you all have been so persecuted with censorship and hides, as you were so

certain would happen. And so terrible how all that persecution and all those hides make DU valueless for you. (Here we place the back of our hands on our foreheads and swoon a bit.)

But wait. None of that happened.

back at ya.

[pintobean]

90. Now, you're just fabricating shit.

[Squinch]

91. WTF. It's right there in black and white.

[Squinch]

92. And just for the record, that wasn't me. I found that post hilarious, especially as it lasted as

long as it did.

[oberliner]

8. He was on CNN and MSNBC a lot

Among others.

[GulfCoast66]

11. And if you are pleased with him representing the Democratic Party.

Then we just have an honest disagreement.

[Fuzzpope]

18. I don't recall

Avenatti, or anyone else for that matter designating him as a or the defacto representative of the democratic party.

The man has an abrasive demeanor that was probably refined through his courtroom work that ported over well into media dialog, because the winning formula by the media's standards is >friction< and they know that viewers are entertained by >friction< because it's stimulating to witness, in much the same manner as watching bugfights.com.

Where the media cannot provide coverage of this friction, it will eventually seek to engineer it, because friction is a powerful distraction. End of the day, all the big media channel owners are to a man Republicans and have a vested interest in preserving, or even cementing the status quo, and it's very good at doing so.

That friction runs downhill like shit, pooling in random locations like this thread, where we continue to labor on their behalf by perpetuating friction between ourselves, and that's their ultimate weapon because they don't even have to aim, fire, or maintain it; we stupidly execute that part for them.

Doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world for us to do, does it?

[GulfCoast66]

24. I agree with lots of what you say about the media

And we cannot stop them from having a porn star lawyer on. Especially an abrasive one. Like bees to honey.

But we can stop making him some kind of virtuous representative of our cause on DU. Which some kind have done. Hell, there are even post here pushing him for president.

I do not expect all to agree with me. Would be disappointed if they did.

But I don’t like him going on the air as a representative of my positions or even more, my party.

[JonLP24]

75. If the DV allegations are true I'm done with him

But I don't fault lawyers over who their client is.

[Beartracks]

52. Wow. Apt metaphor.

=========

[ZZenith]

53. Nice post!

Very clear thinking.

[Fuzzpope]

54. Thank you, ZZenith.

One does what one can, even if it feels like it's impossible to think clearly under the constant Trump carpet bombing.

I have a slight advantage I'm not particularly proud of, in that I spent ten plus years fighting for the life of a spouse hell bent on destroying it, and mine by way of circumstance. She was/is a borderline personality disorder sufferer, and quite a force unto herself, so by necessity I inured myself to thinking under pressure, at times extraordinarily so.

I only mention this because to me, it's become clear that Trump has had a profound effect on our collective psyche, and each of us are forced to find our way to logic and sanity in the face of irrational madness radiating like a living cancer from Trump himself.

I once read a brilliant description of what trying to think coherently can be like under the [gas-lighting] assault of a sociopath/BPD individual; the woman said that it was like trying to think with your head stuck inside a running washing machine.

That's where I've personally found myself every day since Trump's election.

It's essential that we stay on the same side. All we have is one another. In times of War, and we are indeed at War, we find strange bedfellows. Without Trump, Michael Avenatti would never have had the oxygen to rise to national recognition, and it's tempting to tear this person down, he's not an exemplary ally, but he IS an ally nevertheless that has managed to disrupt the Trump sonic blast successfully.

Nature frequently provides natural antidotes to lethal toxins, I like to think that Avenatti is an example of this in practical effect, and I believe it's important to not allow ourselves to be manipulated by the typical forces that destroy adversaries of the republican/trumpian factions.

I certainly am not privy to information law enforcement is not, or an eventual jury. Let his fate be decided there where it should be, in the meantime there are much more important things to apply focus towards.

Sorry for the short novel.

[ZZenith]

64. I love short novels!

At the end of the day we may end up being weirdly grateful for Agent Orange’s assault on our senses - our ability to maintain equanimity has surely increased because we have had to fight so hard to not lose it.

And yeah, Avenatti is a pit bull, but at least he’s our pit bull. I truly think he despises Trump, and has been effective in keeping his more obvious character defects in the limelight.

Trump’s momentum is dead in the water, and he will only shed support from here. Probably the only thing we have left going for us as a country is our national pastime of raising people onto pedestals so we can enjoy their spectacular falls.

You have a friend in me, Fuzzpope!

[Pacifist Patriot]

87. No real data to back this up, but it has seemed to me...

that people intimately familiar with personality disorders, in particular love ones who suffered through that hell before finding a way out and mental health providers trained to diagnose and care for affected families caught on to Trumpism earlier than others.

We saw what was baffling to many, but horrifyingly familiar to us.

[oberliner]

34. Quite the opposite

I am mystified by it.

[MyNameGoesHere]

13. DU savior says don't talk about things

They don't like...

No.

[blueinredohio]

15. I thought this site was to discuss all kinds of things.

[GulfCoast66]

17. It is. And I was discussing how tying ourselves to a guy like this is a bad idea.

Do you really want him on TV representing our party. Cause now he is. Too much.

I was discussing how, in my opinion, we should object and not participate. You obviously feel differently.

[Fuzzpope]

20. I beg to differ.

Please show me just ONE instance where Avenatti declares openly that he represents the democratic party, because as far as I can see, YOU are the only person doing so.

Why is that, friend?

[GulfCoast66]

39. The dude has flirted with running for President on our ticket

And there have been post on DU about it.

I am simply stating that he is a bad representative of the party. He is often of the talking head shows pushing our agenda.

I think he is not someone that DU needs to support.

If you feel differently I just respectfully disagree.

I think he does us no favors in the court of public opinion.

[DonViejo]

44. So what? If he can put a campaign staff together...

run state-wide campaigns in the primaries, so be it. The decision about his suitability to be elected to the Presidency will be made by Democratic voters in those primaries, not some irate DU'er.

[GulfCoast66]

47. Well of course.

And there have been People on DU supporting that.

I think it is a bad idea and the man does no favors and at the end of the day it hurts us.

So we disagree about his influence.

Honorable people can disagree.

[blue cat]

63. His campaign bid is DOA

Him dating a younger girl from Estonia shows lack of judgement, ain’t nobody donating to his campaign.

[Autumn]

74. Any American can run for President. He's a Democrat, nothing stopping him from running on the

Democratic party ticket. Yes, he is often on the talking heads show pushing our agenda and you think that makes him a bad representative of the party? I don't get that. And he gives Trump hell. What's wrong with that and why shouldn't people here support him? I have never seen anyone saying he represents the Democratic party.

[Yosemito]

68. Showing exculpatory evidence is not "tying oneself? To anyone

[brush]

81. BS. He represents himself and his clients. He's not an elected Dem official.

You don't like him, fine. It's not your decision to ban others from discussing him.

It seems pretty obvious that he's being Frankened in this alleged domestic violent claim, as was Keith Ellison.

I want to see how it unfolds. You don't have to click on the Avenatti posts. And you don't have to keep creating Avenatti post yourself.

[jberryhill]

32. Yup

[marylandblue]

22. I understand how you feel, but just ignore it.

He has a talent for getting attention, as does Trump. They do it by pushing people's buttons. Don't let your buttons be pushed. That's exactly what they want.

[GulfCoast66]

27. Oh, I agree.

But in my opinion, which I know many do not share, he has come to represent our side. I do not see him as ally.

[GulfCoast66]

40. I stated an opinion.

Honorable people can disagree. I think the guy does us no favors. Especially in the court of public opinion.

[Tipperary]

65. You feel bullied by an op?

Might want to rethink participating on discussion boards lol.

[melman]

26. I'm kind of mixed on him

On the one hand he is a total self-promoter and bit of a huckster. But I do kind of like his in-your-face style and how he takes no shit.


What drives me nuts is how some people act like he's some off-limits guy and can't be criticized. He's just a dude on TV.

[GulfCoast66]

30. As a defense lawyer I would want him in a heartbeat

But as a representative of our party, which some have exposed, I would not touch him with a 10 foot pole.

And it pains me to see so many on DU pushing as a party representative.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. He's not a defense lawyer. He generally represents plaintiffs in civil cases,

mostly involving things like show business contracts. He doesn't seem to know much about criminal law at all, so I wouldn't want him as my defense lawyer.

[sheshe2]

61. OMG OMG OMG

I agree with you! Never thought that would happen.

Thanks melman.

[7962]

28. He's just angling for his TV show down the road. Likely on MSNBC.

[Hoyt]

38. I bet he just blew his chance for that. NBC, maybe.

[RandiFan1290]

93. Buh Bye!

[Wintryjade]

29. So now he is representative of the Democratic Party? Total Bullshit.

Totally blows my mind, too. It is bad enough media has picked him up to tag him as a Democratic voice, but on a political board? I agree.

[GulfCoast66]

31. Thanks for the support.

Your name would be a whole lot prettier with a Star next to it. Look into joining.

[Wintryjade]

41. The stars are pretty. A little glitter hurts no one.

[bpositive]

45. Proud democrat but losing patience

Avenatti may not be perfect ( not referring to the trumped up charges) but he has the balls to push forward. He's a fighter and wants to win. I sometimes feel like the geek getting beat up by the bully. At what point does the geek beat the bully at the game? I'm a winner and will take on a winning strategy before accepting defeat or accepting an inferior approach.

[GulfCoast66]

48. We just won huge victories

Engineered by Democratic stalwarts in Congress. This is where we need our focus to be. Not some unknown defense lawyer on TV.

[Kaleva]

71. He and Trump are cut from the same cloth.

Trump and Avenatti supporters think that their man is a fighter and wants to win.

Both have been involved in bankruptcies.

Both have multiple marriages.

Both think there are conspiracies out to take them down.

Both appear to prefer women much younger then themselves.

Both have cheated on their spouses.

Both have been alleged to have mistreated women.

Both love to tweet.

Neither has the qualifications to be president.

Both have stiffed people that were owed money by them.

Both enjoy the lavish lifestyle.

I prefer to have people like Hillary, Kerry, Obama, Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Kamala Harris and a whole host of others fighting for us then a Trump wanna-be.

[Jarqui]

51. As a lawyer and attack dog, I haven't minded him

I think he's scored a bunch of political points for Dems in a reality TV environment for politics on cable TV that many of us would prefer did not exist. But Monica Lewinsky or Sarah Palin's names in the headlines assure us that it has existed for some time. If that is how the game must be played (and I'd prefer we didn't have to play such a media game on nonsense), I don't mind Avenatti on our team.

The GOP's various attempts to take him down confirms his effectiveness.

As for him testing the water for leadership of the Dems in 2020, I have a lot of trouble with that. I place some value on experience in government. Unfortunately, I have some fears that we are mired into reality TV candidates rather than creating an environment were we attract the best people for the job.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

55. If he's been set up to take the fall on a fake domestic abuse charge,

that's reprehensible, of course; and I hope he kicks the ass of whoever turns out to be responsible. However, I agree with the OP that Avenatti should not be considered a representative of the Democratic Party, although it seems he'd like to be. My problem with Avenatti is this: As an attorney he owes a duty to his client to represent her to the best of his ability within the bounds of the law. That duty is primary and is above any other interests or desires he might have. Even though she's a porn star Stormy Daniels is entitled to the same level of professional representation as any other client, but I don't think she's getting it. Avenatti seems to have used her lawsuit against Cohen and Trump along with her unusual, rather lurid past as media bait to get himself on TV - over and over again.

That publicity for himself was more important to him than his obligation to zealously represent Daniels became apparent to me when he tried to intervene in the federal case against Michael Cohen in the Southern District of New York, claiming that some of the documents the FBI seized from Cohen's offices had confidential information about Daniels that she didn't want disclosed publicly. But the judge told Avenatti that, because of lawyers' ethics rules in New York, if he was representing a client in a case he couldn't talk about it in the media - in other words, he had to choose between intervening to protect Daniels' documents and going on TV. He chose TV.

And then he announced he was considering running for president. A guy with exactly zero experience in government - like so many other unqualified shiny object celebrities like Oprah and George Clooney - was suddenly hailed by many, including some fanboys here on DU, as the savior of the Democrats just because he was aggressive and combative and was poking at Trump and Cohen. But the libel claim he brought against Trump on Daniels' behalf crashed and burned (which he should have known would happen if he had bothered to research SLAPP litigation), causing Daniels to owe Trump thousands in legal fees. The part of her claim based on the NDA is now effectively moot because Daniels has been released from the agreement, but Avenatti doesn't want to dismiss the case because he wants to take Trump's deposition - even though there's no longer a legal reason to do it and no court would allow it for that reason. But taking Trump's deposition would be huge publicity for Avenatti even though there would be absolutely no benefit to his client.

I hope that if he's being framed he can get to the truth. Nobody deserves that kind of bullshit. But he needs to get down to business and do the right thing for his client, and he doesn't deserve to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate.

[jberryhill]

70. What I find really depressing

Is that people have gotten so used to the self-aggrandizing "media lawyer", that they actually think that's what lawyers are supposed to do, or that it is somehow proper.

Nobody here can, off the top of their head, name the prosecutor who convicted Bill Cosby, but everyone knows that Gloria Allred was outside the court posing for cameras despite having no actual role in the case whatsoever.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

73. Avenatti is also an example of why so many people don't like lawyers.

He's an ambulance-chaser; he just chases a different sort of ambulance - he inserts himself into high-visibility cases that get him noticed (by the way, whatever happened to his project to help the immigrant children?) instead of whiplash from fender-bender cases. He made himself out to be some kind of liberal hero because he was yanking Trump's chain, but he's really just Jimmy McGill with an expensive suit and media connections.

And don't get me started on Gloria Allred.

[JonLP24]

76. I think Gloria Allred does a good job

I wouldn't compare to Avenatti. She seems to really care about her clients.

She was representing Cosby's victim's. Northing wrong with that.

[onenote]

83. My impression is that most of the lawyers here on DU are not Avenatti fans

I include myself in that category.

Most attorneys have, at some point or another, run across folks like Avenatti - an abrasive, self-promoting attorney who often tosses around threats that he (or she) never actually carries out and who eventually screws the pooch somehow through his (or her) behavior.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

86. Bingo. He seems to be failing at the one thing he is obligated to do,

which is to represent his client's interests above any others, including (or especially) his own.

[Demonaut]

56. "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

stop

[elmac]

57. i come to du for the laughs

i mean really

[mastermind]

58. remember when wikileaks assange was the darling of progressives

because he came out with the goods against bush jr wars, even had many defending him for the rape charges, well, than he helped the fascists win the 16 election and his name is mud now. The bottom line is, and as the old saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[BlueStater]

60. Here's my feelings on the guy.

I'm not a fan of him and wouldn't normally care about him at all but I will side with him against garbage humans like that crooked little twerp Jacob Wohl. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, if you will.

If the allegations about him being a woman beater turn out to be true, then he can certainly go fuck himself. However, at the moment I find his antics somewhat amusing and he annoys people I can't stand so I'll at least give him that.

[brush]

77. Your opinion is yours but I don't think he's a clown. He's a bulldog who has been useful...

in exposing trump and Cohen's corruption.

Why not put Avenatti post on ignore if they bother you that much?

[RiverStone]

78. I don't think telling DUers who to NOT talk about is gonna work

We don't march in lockstep like rethuglicans.

We can have vigorous debates and vote together when it really counts.

[kcr]

79. After 2016, how could anyone think it possible

that there could ever be this magical consensus of one person being our "voice?" People are losing their minds over Avenatti because of this, and it is baffling. I can absolutely understand why people hate the guy. But objecting to this made up status of his is ridiculous. The reactions to him over his resistance to Trump are no different than anyone else's. Cohen didn't become our voice and neither did Comey, for example, and both are far worse than Avenatti. They had moments in the sun where they were similarly fawned over for the simple reason that Trump is hated and feared, and people will support anything that hurts him. Avenatti has no chance in hell at POTUS, either. People need to calm down.

[GusBob]

80. Bait, point, click

If Trump could keep his dick in his pants we would not have this problem

He is the sleazeball

[MountCleaners]

82. He's already over-exposed

The assault allegation - true or not - will do damage to his presidential aspirations. If true, that is obvious. If false, he won't shut up about the bogus allegations and annoy people by commenting on it all of the time. I supported him initially, but his constant bluster is getting annoying.

He'll be a has-been by 2020.

[Doodley]

84. No need to try to control what people post, but your concern is noted.