Fox News legal analyst stunned at how Mueller made it impossible for Trump to save Manafort

[Quixote1818]

On Tuesday, Fox News judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano revealed to host Shep Smith that Special Counsel Robert Mueller acted strategically to block President Donald Trump from pardoning Paul Manafort.

Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, was busted for lying even after he signed a plea agreement.

It is unclear exactly what he lied about, but Napolitano explained that Mueller designed the plea agreement in such a way that it is “pardon proof.”

More:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/fox-news-legal-analyst-stunned-at-how-mueller-made-it-impossible-for-trump-to-save-manafort/?utm_source=push_notifications

[OnDoutside]

1. Interesting.

[Jim__]

2. That is fantastically good news - right in Trump's face.

Mueller trumped Trump's power.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

3. Brilliance on Mueller's part....

That even Andrew Napolitano recognized. Trump is fucked so to speak because any move to pardon Manafort will be Obstruction of Justice that even the DOJ will have to acknowledge.

[AndJusticeForSome]

4. Yeah. Except it was really Manafort's own doing

Mueller just did his job Manafort's the one who committed State crimes.

(Not belittling Mueller in any way, of course; just pointing out Manafort's role.)

[Corvo Bianco]

45. Yes It's good to remember this is punishment for crimes committed

And not necessarily a 'win' like Mueller's on offense.

[malaise]

5. Perfect

Lock them all up!

[Historic NY]

6. Because they aren't dealing with an amateur...

everyone thought they would be dealing with a Jimmy Boombatz, because thats all they know.

[True Dough]

7. It's "4D" chess

when Donny is incapable of even playing tiddlywinks.

[Lochloosa]

11. Tiddlywinks is hard!

[True Dough]

18. Hard to execute

but a simple concept to grasp, for most people, at least.

[SeattleVet]

20. He's in real estate - he builds things!

[libdem4life]

60. Then screws everybody and keeps the profits.

Commonly called a scam...in real estate. Same for casinos...cashes in his chips just before the House burns down. Sayonara !!

[BootinUp]

24. Lol. Nt

[dewsgirl]

8. I am so happy our side has the brains in this mess.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Our side is the patriotic American side

Mueller is a Republican but he stands by our Democracy

[pwb]

9. Hard to fool those Fox News folks? Not.

[pecosbob]

10. I am suspicious that Fox and Dershowitz are the people that are saying this.

I think they are positioning themselves for some sort of quarterback sneak or change in tactics.

[mr_lebowski]

25. It's Napolitano and Shep Smith, who, believe it or not, play things pretty straight (nt)

[NewJeffCT]

35. Shep definitely goes off script sometimes at Fox

Napolitano, I agree, while pro Trump and pro GOP, has generally been a straight shooter on legal issues, though from a GOP perspective.

[rurallib]

27. I join in your skepticism

As the wise Yogi (Berra) once stated "It ain't over til it's over."
Goodness knows Fox is on the team and will do anything for a "win."

[pecosbob]

33. Used to talk to him from the bleachers at Astros games when he was a coach there

One of my favorite ballplayers of all time...the player Casey Stengel said he couldn't win a game without.

[CentralMass]

52. +1

[Perseus]

28. Dershowitz was trying to do something else

What Dershowitz said was that the report would be devastating, but that at the end of the day everyone would see that it was nothing but a political attack on the president. Dershowitz used his years as a lawyer to try to transform the validity of the Muller probe results into nothing but a political hack job.

Dershowitz is a clown who should be fired from Harvard University, if he is teaching what he is advocating on TV then he is teaching treason, and disregard for the rule of law. How many times has he called for the end of the Muller probe?

[LiberalFighter]

63. Probably need a campaign to get Dersh fired.

[still_one]

12. I hope so.

[The_jackalope]

14. It's all coming together, isn't it?

[saidsimplesimon]

15. the "worm has turned" in our favour

[allgood33]

16. Ahh...sweet relief!

And i hope that the alleged meeting between Assange and Manifest can be proven with tapes and videos. Most embassies tape every damn thing.

[Jarqui]

17. The deadheads who watch FOX News had to watch that

including Trump

[mobeau69]

29. How sweet it is!

[gratuitous]

19. Glorisky, Andrew

It's almost as if Mueller knows what he's doing.

[efhmc]

21. Goddess, it is good to have such a good lawyer on the side of the

the law.

[mastermind]

22. I think tRumps written testimony was all Mueller needed to prove both Manafort & tRump

were in collusion and are lying. tRrump is the main target, Manafort is the means to put that target in prison.

[The_jackalope]

26. Yep. Speculation is that Mueller has IC tapes of Wikileaks contacts with Trump campaign

If true, they would constitute proof that Manafort committed perjury and Trump committed conspiracy to obstruct justice.

Everybody dance!

[Duppers]

34. 💃

How are these tRump supporters going to react as they see their hero taken in custody? And his offspring?

Hope he loses every nickel he has and claimed to have.

[mastermind]

46. i don't think his support was or is that great

it was all created by the corporate media to increase profits, his presidency is one big, bad reality show.

[Duppers]

48. Sadly, I just happen to live in the middle of these

knuckledraggers. 80% retired military; the jerk two doors down still drives around with a *huge* tRump bumper sticker. They all have been in denial.

[gay texan]

23. Dont fuck with Meuller

It's that simple

[mobeau69]

31. He's a bad man!

[bronxiteforever]

30. Wow! Kick and recommend for visibility.

Thanks for posting! This is great!

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Color me just a little skeptical. (Edited)

Like everyone, I hope this is true. That said, I'm thinking presidential pardon power is pretty much unlimited.

On edit, it seems Paulie also pleaded to state crimes which, indeed, are beyond the reach of Trump's pardon power. So pardoning the federal charges just moves Paulie from Club Fed to a prison in Joisey witta buncha skinheads and homeboys. And may a couple of Mafioso types, which are more to Paulie's liking, I'd guess.

[NewJeffCT]

36. Did he plead guilty in NJ

or was in Virginia/DC?

[onenote]

42. The problem is that New York has a very broad double jeopardy provision

that will protect Manafort unless its changed (and even if its changed, the change probably wouldn't be given retroactive effect).

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027110842

[Sugarcoated]

43. Hopefully Jersey and Virginia doesn't have that same provision

Does anyone know?

[FreeState]

49. He admitted guilt to state crimes he wasn't charged with in his

plea agreement. Meaning there is no double jeopardy.

[onenote]

54. No. He. Didn't.

Show me where he did.
You can't.
Because he didn't.

[FreeState]

56. Yes he did (link)

“Second, Mueller managed to get concessions from Manafort that limit the value of any pardon. Manafort admitted guilt on virtually all of the charges he faced in both Washington, D.C., and Virginia, including a slew of bank fraud charges. Each of those admissions could give state or local prosecutors a potential charge against Manafort that would survive even in the event of a Trump pardon, since he can pardon only federal offenses”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-probe-russia-trump-pardon-825751

Article from 9/14/2018

[onenote]

57. Maybe in some jurisdictions, but not in New York

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027210221

[FreeState]

58. I never mentioned NY - keep moving those goal post n/t

[onenote]

59. The "goal posts" were set six messages earlier in this thread

Sorry if you missed that.

[LAS14]

37. Good news!! Thanks for the post. nt

[Az_lefty]

38. Mueller is one smart guy

[TeamPooka]

39. Federal vs State prison. You do not want to serve time in a state prison Paul!

Not good.
Club Fed with other rich criminals is the way to go.

[SayItLoud]

40. Isn't there a case now or soon to be put before the Supreme Court

which deals with double jeopardy? Maybe ManaFART feels that tRUMP and the RePUBICs stacking the court with conservers will rule in their favor. However since ManaFART has pled guilty to those State crimes maybe his goose is cooked. Nope someone on DU can explain what's going on with this case.

[onenote]

41. Seriously doubt the accuracy of this.

First, there is no 175 page plea agreement. The relevant documents include:

The Plea Agreement, which is 17 pages.
The Statement of Offense and Other Charges, which is 24 pages.
The Superseding Information, which is 38 pages plus another 38 pages of attachments.

Under the plea agreement, Manafort pleaded guilty to two counts, which cover most of the Statement of Offense. He also admitted to the "other charges" in the Statement of Offense, which are the same seven charges of bank fraud and bank fraud conspiracy that he was tried on in the Eastern District case, but the jury couldn't reach a verdict.

There is nothing else. And under New York law, anything he plead guilty to or was even tried for cannot be the basis of a new state trial. Even if Trump pardons him. (And you can bet your bottom dollar that if Trump pardons Manafort, the pardon will cover the 8 counts he was convicted of in Virginia, the two counts he pleaded guilty to in DC and the 7 counts that he was tried on but not convicted of in Virginia but admitted to in DC).

I don't think its impossible for Trump to pardon everything and anything he can think of and, at least as far as New York (and maybe some other states), it's game over. Indeed, ever since last spring, there has been an effort, thus far unsuccessful, to change New York law because at the moment, it would prevent Manafort from facing state charges based on the actions that formed the basis of the federal charges.

[Nevilledog]

50. Not exactly.

Present New York law would only prevent successive prosecution for the exact same crime using the same evidence as the federal crime.

[onenote]

51. Why have two New York Attorney Generals been lobbying hard to change New York law?

Of course they can prosecute Manafort for crimes that are factually distinct from the ones covered by the plea agreement with Mueller (or from the convictions in the Eastern District).

But the issue is whether Manafort has "confessed" to criminal activity that he hasn't been charged with and whether he can be charged in New York. The answer is that his plea agreement only "confesses" to actions covered by the prosecutions brought by Mueller in ED VA or DC. Under NY's broad double jeopardy law, he cannot be prosecuted for state crimes based on those actions.

[Nevilledog]

53. I don't see it that way.

I also disagree that NY is barred from prosecuting Manafort for the state crimes he admitted to in the plea proceedings. He wasn't convicted of those crimes in any jurisdiction in the plea he entered. Think of it this way...... John Doe enters a plea in Federal Court to one count of theft. During the plea he also admits to committing 10 different thefts in NY. Unless the plea specifically states that Doe cannot be prosecuted for those thefts pursuant to an agreement between the Feds, NY, and the defendant, those crimes are still prosecutable. The Feds cannot vitiate the State's power to prosecute someone for crimes within their jurisdiction, and have no power to negotiate away crimes that are not solely federal crimes. Worse case scenario, in my opinion, would be that NY might be precluded from using the statements attributed to Manafort at his change of plea. This would allow NY to use the rest of their evidence to convict him.

[onenote]

55. Well, I'm going to go with the way the New York law experts see it.

Including the previous and current New York Attorney Generals.
https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027210221

[Nevilledog]

62. Do you have a link to the full article? Getting a paywall.

[Sugarcoated]

44. Napolitano seems to really dislike Lyin Don

I hope it isn't causing him to speculate too optimistically

[getagrip_already]

47. trump still has 2 years to rat fuch us all........

Until/unless the gop senators abandon him, he will be potus until 2021, even if he is tried and convicted. The constitution is clear. The only way to forcibly remove him is impeachment and conviction.

And we need 67 senators for that. I very much doubt we can get ~19 of them no matter what happens.

It will be one hell of a ride. Buckle up. Don't eat a greasy dinner. You may end up blowing chunks by the time this is in the rear view mirror.

[libdem4life]

61. I am not a legal scholar in any sense of the word.

But, I was around during Watergate. Nixon got busted by his own party...fearful for their re-election. Seemed he preferred to go out in resignation rather than be shoved out. But the writing was already on the wall.

I don't remember if they had the votes to impeach, but they had the political pressure to carry it out.

How far are we from this, assuming that the economy goes south, the tariffs gut the Midwest, and the military tires of being his plastic play toys.

[getagrip_already]

65. Yes, they had the votes to convict......

That was the stick, Ford issuing the pardon was the carrot.

It was a very different Congress.

Trump will only resign if he can make it look like he won. He can try to pardon himself, the doh can grant him absolute immunity, or he can high tail it to a country that will shelter him.

But before he goes, he is going to hurt us very badly. Maybe he will pardon all white federal inmates. Who knows.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

64. Can Whitaker screw up Mueller's plans?

After all, that's the sole reason this underqualified Trump loyalist was shoved into office before Sessions' chair was cold.

[LudwigPastorius]

66. Balls, meet Vise.

Hey, Pauly! You better ask Santa to bring you this book for Christmas.