If Mueller has the motherload of evidence against Trump

[brettdale]

Will the senate still have to impeach him, for trump to be out of office??

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. The Senate doesn't impeach; the House impeaches

and then the Senate has to convict by a 2/3 vote. If Mueller has the "mother lode," whatever that turns out to be, Trump would still have to be impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate to make him go away, unless he resigns like Nixon did. There's no other way to get rid of a president.

[brettdale]

3. OH darn

Thats what I wanted to know.

Even if its a huge national security risk, something massive???

Or What say ( I know this sounds dumb) pulls out a guy and starts shooting at people
during a press conference.

The house still has to impeach and the senate still has to vote?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Yes. Read the Constitution.

[Shrike47]

7. Yes.

[whathehell]

17. I doubt

that there would be a problem getting a majority democratic House
to impeach. The problem would likely lie the Senate.

[Volaris]

19. And I would add that the chances of a Senate conviction increase dramatically

Depending on what's in the sealed indictments. If there's a money laundrying charge and a RICO indictment in there anywhere, it means the Senate repubs are mostly guilty by association, and they will convict the fuck out of him, just to have a chance at saving their own asses.

[pnwmom]

4. No other way unless . . .

the President resigns, like Nixon.

VP Pence might offer him a deal . . . a pardon for a quick resignation and a trip to Siberia.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Yes, I did mention that. I doubt Trump would do that, though, no matter what Mueller has on him,

because he would be admitting defeat. He'll have to be wheeled out of the White House on a handcart, trussed up like Hannibal Lecter.

[pnwmom]

8. I wonder. If he knew he was about to face impeachment proceedings,

he might decide to get out of dodge, rather than face that humiliation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Hard to say. Is he so delusional that he couldn't imagine being removed from office

and therefore would refuse to resign? Wouldn't surprise me.

[LanternWaste]

49. That (to me) is THE question.

He'll have to weigh which is more damaging to his brand-- quitting or being impeached (regardless of the outcome of the impeachment).

For me, the answer is about as clear as the flip of coin.

[ProfessorGAC]

23. That's What We Thought About Nixon

But, staring down impeachment (admittedly more likely conviction in the Senate), he said "enough".

[exboyfil]

28. For all his flaws

Nixon was no Trump. I think Nixon did have a sense of public service. He served in the military. He was a Congressman and Senator before becoming VP.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Didn't Mean To Compare The Two

Not like that anyway. But, Nixon was sure he was right. Remember he is the one who suggested the law can't be broken if the president does it.

But, faced with sure impeachment and possible conviction in the Senate he bailed.

Now, he may have had more sense of duty to have done it for the country, but he still did it only when he really had no other choice.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Nixon wasn't as crazy as Trump.

He was sort of crazy, but he wasn't absolutely batshit crazy.

[ProfessorGAC]

43. See My Other Reply

I didn't mean it as a direct comparison of the two. But, when faced with the realization that the jig was up, resignation was chosen over prosecution That is self-preservation and very few people are too crazy to pursue that instinct.

Yeah, when it comes to fight or flight, golden toilet boy will be more likely to do the latter, until such time that he knows his ass is about to be kicked. Then the running away begins. It's human nature and nobody is completely devoid of those instincts.

He might be noisier and whinier about it but if things get too hot, he's still going to cut and run.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. Nixon was sane and rational enough to finally recognize when the jig was up.

I'm not sure Trump is, or will be. But we might find out one way or another.

[ProfessorGAC]

47. I'm Hoping So

I still think it's a basic instinct that even crazy doesn't prevent.

Ted Bundy was crazy and a psychopath, but he knew to cover his tracks because he was frightened of the consequences.

When the only option is to save one's self, i don't think anybody is too crazy to choose cut and run.

[libdem4life]

9. This has been my gut feeling for a long time...

probably more wishful thinking than psychic ability. I think it's going to get so dirty that they'll be begging him to leave before he takes the Republican Party down...which is happening already.

Pence, don't forget, is dirty too. Manafort insisted on him instead of Christie. There was a good reason...Christie wasn't dirty enough. Can't believe I just wrote that. Just not dirty with the folks Manafort was beholden to.

[2naSalit]

35. Christy

sent Jared's daddy to prison, that's why.

[libdem4life]

48. Oh yes, had forgotten that. Thanks. nt

[RHMerriman]

12. There are a few "other" ways to get rid of a president...legally:

There are a few "other" ways to get rid of a president...legally.

A couple would be precedent-setting, and would undoubtedly be argued before SCOTUS and (possibly) another high court, but that's why they're called precedents... the GJ was ready to indict Nixon, after all, as we have learned in recent weeks. Among the possibilities:

25th Amendment
US Civil Criminal prosecution on multiple charges, including 18 U.S. Code § 2381 and 18 U.S. Code § 793, 794, and 798
US Military Tribunal Criminal prosecution under multiple articles, including 81, 104, 106, 106a, and 132, among others...

Another interesting possibility is trial under Title XVIII, of H.R. 2647, Pub.L. 111–84, 123 Stat. 2190.

One could "probably" get creative with state law, as well. International, as well.

[triron]

14. What if he is indicted?

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

30. Doesnt matter

67 votes in the Senate are still necessary to remove him.

There are exactly 5 ways for a President to be removed from power. 1- term limits or electoral defeat, 2- impeachment and conviction, 3- removal via the 25th, 4- resignation, 5- death.

That's it.

[A DAY IN THE LIFE]

36. There is a constitutional question whether or not a sitting president can be indicted

If the SC says a president cannot be indicted, then he can't be prosecuted while president.

[RHMerriman]

2. "Lode" .... "Mother Lode"....

"Lode" .... "Mother Lode"....

[link:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mother_lode|]

[Hoyt]

10. Yes. So far, even the wildest speculation isn't enough for Senate to convict.

It’s possible he COULD BE indicted otherwise, but trump would fight that and likely stretch things out. I doubt a jury could be found that wouldn’t have one or more white wingers who would hang the jury.

Until enough voters turn against trump, Senate won’t do anything. That would require more evidence against trump than we’ve heard so far. Hope I’m totally wrong, though.

[Jarqui]

13. I do not see a guy who says this

Trump at Thanksgiving: "I'm thankful for the difference I've made"
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/politics/trump-thanksgiving-thankful-for-difference/index.html
as someone who is going to resign any time soon. He's too delusional and narcissistic.

He could die from his obesity or assassination ... Assassination is more unlikely because according to some reports, he's too scared to go out much.

Article 25 requires a majority of the cabinet plus 2/3rds of the Senate and 2/3rds of the House so that isn't going to happen in such a partisan environment where party for the GOP comes before country.

So we are down to a majority of the House voting to impeach him which is quite possible since the Democrats control it by a good margin. But I doubt a GOP controlled Senate will vote 2/3rds for impeachment.

I think the GOP will primary him because of his poor polls, someone else will run in 2020 and he'll be looking at sealed indictments Jan 20, 2021 So he'll opt for resignation & pardon just before the end of his term. That's my guess at this point

[spin]

16. I sure hope you are right that the assassination of Trump is unlikely. ...

I lived through the JFK assassination and its aftermath and I hope to never see a presidential assassination again. Those were some bad days in this nation.

[Jarqui]

21. Assassination is never the proper way in a civilized society, in a nation of laws

I also lived through JFK's "assassination and its aftermath". A terrible time.
RFK, MLK and John Lennon are examples of other assassinations that were very painful for me.
I feared for Obama throughout his candidacy and time in office.
I do not care to live through another either.

Having said that, my respect and feelings for JFK and the others I mentioned and Trump are at the extreme opposites on a scale.
As terrible as it might be to say, I honestly don't think I would mourn Trump's loss.

[spin]

22. Let's just hope it never happens. ...

Like you I worried about Obama while he was running and in office.

[Jarqui]

24. I still worry about him

[spin]

26. While it is less likely today, Obama is still a target. ...

Let’s hope his Secret Service detail is top notched and on the ball.

[exboyfil]

31. Would create a cult and make him a martyr

I would rather see him finish his term.


Ideal situation. He forces Pence to resign and then he vapor locks from the fast food before the VP nominee can clear the Senate. Just a dream I have.

President Pelosi. She nominates the presumptive Presidential nominee for 2020 for VP. The Senate confirmation fight cripples the Republican Senators and further turns the country away from the GOP.

[spin]

41. We really do not want Trump to ever become a martyr. ...

He is at the age where stress and being overweight can lead to major health problems. If anything he appears to be gaining weight. Might be those two scoops of ice cream.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I See That A Little Differently

Your quote and the "i give myself an A+, can i go higher" nonsense is an attempt to distance himself from the wrongdoing they all know they've been caught doing.

He can then blame it on lackeys and try to remind people how great things have been in the last 2 years.

Problem with that is that the percentage of folks who would be swayed by that is getting increasingly smaller. The STRONGLY disapprove # was in the high 50's on Gallup this week.

And, the 25% or so who will believe any gibberish he spews forth and already in his pocket. So, all that bluster is an attempt to save himself. If the writing is on the wall, those statements won't mean a thing if the option is indictment or impeachment and removal.

Just like Nixon.

[brettdale]

15. There must be a safety measure

That doesnt require, the house impeaching, the senate voting.

What say he he starts running around circles screaming "Im a teapot"

and ends by saying Im off to Nuke Canada.

There can be hearings then.

Wouldnt they call it a medical issue?

[bearsfootball516]

27. It's the 25th Amendment, which allows for the removal is the president is not of sound mind.

But it's even harder to get a president removed via 25th amendment than it is to impeach and then have the senate remove.

It's more or less meant for removing someone who is literally crazy. Not Trump's form of crazy, which is being brutally mean, but someone who is legitimately insane.

[FakeNoose]

34. That would be Article 25 removal, and yes it could happen

... but it's unlikely to happen.

His entire Cabinet would have to be willing to vote for removal, but he has stacked the Cabinet with his loyal toadies who would probably never do that. Even if Pence initiated it and brought it to a vote, (again unlikely) there would still be enough "no" votes to keep Cheeto in office.

[exboyfil]

37. And then you will have to get 2/3rds of the House and Senate

to confirm it.

They will have to confirm it again and again if Trump fights it. Pence does not become President under the 25th Amendment, he is only acting as President. Until Trump resigns, dies, or is impeached; he will be President. The 25th does not remove him.

[Doreen]

18. I fear that trump will be proven 100% guilty of many many charges a thousand times over

and he will still get to stay in.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

20. And be reelected.

[exboyfil]

38. You are not kidding

Too bad the Democrats don't have a Florida favorite son/daughter to pick up those EVs. Looking to secure WI, PA, and MI to rebuild the firewall seems dicey at best.

[C_U_L8R]

33. Republicans will continue to defend him

as long as they are profiting. That's all that matters to them. It's the republican way.

[eleny]

39. At their own peril

What happened to them this election won't be lost on them. They could lose the Senate next time since they'll have more seats to defend than the Dems. And Pence is waiting in the wings.

I guess it depends on how we define "profiting"!

[C_U_L8R]

40. Despite what they say

Republicans do read polls. And they don't like losing elections. And their hate-fueled base of racists and knuckledraggers is getting smaller and smaller - literally, dying off. So far, the only way they've been able to appear more centrist is by lying. And it defies belief that they can 'reinvent' themselves before the 2020 election season begins. No, their prospects are not good. Not good at all.

[apnu]

45. Like you say. The GOP will stick to Trump so long as Trump is useful to them personally.

When Trump is a drag on them in elections, they will turn on him like rabid dogs. Until then, they will be cozy fleas on a dog.

The Midterms showed Trump still holds sway in rural places, that's the Republicans' bread and butter.

You are right that the core is shrinking, but it hasn't shrunk enough to put the party out to pasture. Its going to take at least 10 more years for the shrinkage to be insurmountable beyond gerrymandering and mendacity can prop up. Trump will be gone by then no matter what.

[Union Label]

42. What do you mean if?

Mueller has the orange asshole right where he wants him!

[apnu]

44. Impeachment doesn't mean he's out of office. Has to be convicted by the Senate

Impeachment means he's guilty. Conviction means removal. I don't see the GOP in the Senate voting to convict Trump unless many of them are also indicted by Mueller, which is very unlikely given Mueller's scope.

The GOP will stick to Trump like glue so long as they think Trump benefits them politically. The Midterms proved Trump is still good for Red State Senators to keep their jobs. That's all they care about.