If we want the Dem House to pass legislation

[edhopper]

we know the GOP will vote down or Trump will veto.

Why should we worry about the GOP not voting to remove if he is impeached.

We need to do the right thing. Justice demands it.

[Squinch]

1. This is it for me. It's just the right thing. They will do what they will do. We need to do the

right thing. We need to tell history we found this unacceptable. Let them tell history all about the assholes they are.

[hueymahl]

2. Damn straight! Preach it!

Investigate and impeach. Run those assholes through a torture chamber of hearings.

[marylandblue]

3. I want the Democrats to have an ambitious platform for 2020

Passing legislation in the House will demonstrate our agenda and provide free advertising for it. But if our main agenda is to dump Trump, then we will spend two years failing to dump Trump, only to ask the voters to do it for us.

[edhopper]

4. We can walk

and chew gum at the same time.

[marylandblue]

5. Maybe you and I can, but the media and the average American can't

Bandwith is limited, Trump already takes up most of it, we shouldn't give him the rest.

[edhopper]

6. What makes you think the press ever reports

the Dem agenda. We need to do both. The Dems can do both.
We cannot ignore a felon in the White House.

[marylandblue]

11. How do you think we even got into this mess?

My father-in-law voted for Obama, then Trump. At one point, I thought I had him convinced to vote for Hillary. But by the time the election rolled around, all he could say was "emails." Limited bandwith all full. Hillary's detailed plan out the window.

Who said anything about ignoring the felon the White House? We couldn't ignore him if we wanted to. It's not possible for most humans. That's how narcissists work, they grab your attention whether you want to give it or not. The actual worst thing you can do to a narcissist is ignore him. If we COULD ignore him for a week, he'd hang himself.

We can't ignore him, but at least we can go about our business. But I'll tell you this, if we do have an opportunity to impeach, it will be when the Mueller report comes out. If everything lines up, then strike we should strike hard and fast.

[edhopper]

12. Yes

I am not saying impeach on day one. Investigate everything, wait for Mueller and then when his crimes are laid bare, impeach.

And your story about your Uncle shows the GOP's ruse hearings about the Emails worked. Sauce for the goose.

[Trumpocalypse]

8. Thanks

Excellent points

[Trumpocalypse]

7. False equivalency

Impeachment is a a trial in the Senate. There is no chance of getting 67 votes to convict. Then Trump can claim that his acquittal in the Senate exonerates him and that he was the victim of a partisan witch-hunt. Better to spend the next year having hearings to get all the evidence out and then let the people decide in 20 rather the useless exercise of an impeachment.

[edhopper]

9. Or

if after all the investigation, Trump is shown to be a criminal, the GOP Senate will show they don't care about the Law and be eviserated in 2020.

[Trumpocalypse]

10. No most up for re-election are in

deep red states. They’ll lose more votes by turning on Trump.

[edhopper]

13. We need 4 out of 21 GOP seats.

With anti-Trump sentiment growing and a downturn in the economy, I think that is very doable.
We came close in some Red States this year.

[Trumpocalypse]

15. Still need 67 votes in the Senate to convict.

That is a total of 20 GOP senators.

[NewJeffCT]

17. However

for 2020, there are some potentially vulnerable red state Republicans - David Perdue in GA won a close one in 2014, as did Thom Tillis in NC. And, hopefully Mike Espy in MS can continue to build up the voting infrastructure for Democrats in his state. And, who knows what Beto will do? Maybe he can challenge Cornyn in 2020? Maybe Democrats have a chance against a Joni Ernst in 2020 if they field a good candidate in Iowa? Or, maybe in Arizona when Kyl steps down?

There are also potential Republican retirements that could free up some Republicans from being beholden to McConnell and Trump - Pat Roberts? Others?

Not to mention Corey Gardner and Susan Collins in blue states.

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Hopefully Dems can take the Senate in 20

But by then Trump’s impeachment will be moot.

[edhopper]

21. We are talking about Senate majority

not impeachment.

[Trumpocalypse]

22. Ok

But which would you rather have, a Senate majority or a Democratic President in 2020?

[edhopper]

23. I think we will have both

and impeaching will help lead to this.

We cannot look aside from a criminal in the White House.

[Trumpocalypse]

25. No a failed impeachment

will do the opposite. The left wanted Bush impeached. Wisely the Dems in the House didn’t, but they did investigate and hold hearings. That led to a big victory in 08.

[edhopper]

26. The investigation

will show clear and multiple crimes.
Does the law mean nothing?

[Trumpocalypse]

28. There can still be an investigation

and public hearings without taking the step of impeachment.

[edhopper]

30. Whe they show

multiple felonies and treason, not impeaching will hurt the Dems. It will make the both sides the same crowd happy.

[Trumpocalypse]

33. They can spend the next year exposing Trump

in public hearings. And then leave it to the American people to decide at the ballot box. Then Trump can be criminally prosecuted after leaving office.

If they go for impeachment now and fail it will give credibility to the claim it is a partisan witch hunt and energize Trump's base helping him win re-election. Then by the time he's out of office, the statute of limitations will have run out so they won't be able to prosecute him in 2025.

Even if they were able to get 20 GOP Senators to turn on Trump (which is unlikely), we get President Pense for a year. And he will probably pardon Trump.

Impeachment is just a useless exercise.

[Trumpocalypse]

27. No

Impeaching Trump and having him acquitted in the Senate will Trump and the GOP a victory going in to the election.

[edhopper]

29. We disagree

I say acquitting a clearly guilty trump will doom the GOP.

[Trumpocalypse]

31. Clearly guilty to whom?

Just because you and I see Trump as clearly guilty doesn't mean that everyone does.

[edhopper]

32. To anyone

with eyes and ears.

I get your point, but I remember when Nixon's guilt was no longer in doubt.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. But it is a different time now

There was no FAUX News or Rush Limbaugh back then spewing misinformation.

[NewJeffCT]

16. What happens if during 2019

there are public hearings in the House and more serious crimes are revealed live on TV, and people like Jared Kushner, Don Jr, Michael Cohen and others start stabbing each other in the back (not far fetched)

on top of that, the economy enters a recession next year due to the Trump Tariffs.

I think as more comes out and the economy slows, you'll see Trump's ratings trickle down by 1-2% per month.

You'll start to see Republican senators in battleground states up for re-election in 2020 like Colorado, North Carolina, Georgia and Maine defecting from Trump more & more often. Maybe Arizona, Mississippi or Iowa could be in play as well if Democrats put up strong candidates? The trickle starts, but will it become a flood? And, who knows what will happen if a few Senators that are up in 2020 decide to retire?

[Trumpocalypse]

19. Yes have hearings for the next year.

Lay out the case against Trump for the public but then let the people decide in 20. There aren’t enough GOP Senators in battleground states to get to 20 votes. Have him acquitted in the Senate win just hand Trump a victory going into the election.

[WeekiWater]

14. I'm not sure impeachment and legislation are directly comparable as you have done.

There is a lot more to it than a couple of sentences.

How would the people view it?

If we don't remove him how is it then going to look when we simply try it again after Mueller releases his report.

We have consistently set the stage for the Mueller report.

Legislation and impeachment are not comparable in sound bites.

I don't see how we don't wait until Mueller releases his report considering the rhetoric over the last year plus.

[SoCalDem]

20. Expecting the house to "pass" anything

is an exercise in futility.. This next congress is all show & no go..

[edhopper]

24. I think you will be wrong

about that.

[SoCalDem]

35. The house can get a majority for bills, but they will die in the senate..b/t

[edhopper]

36. Yes

that will happen, but they will pass bills none the less.
The bills won't become laws. It is still important to show what the Dems want to do.