"Conservative" Delusion Is Impressive

[Cary]

They have no clue as to how deep their cult leader's failures e or how much trouble he is in. To be able to fend off so many facts and so much reality and sound like they BELIEVE is real talent, especially when they pay such a huge price for the stupidity.

I read an article that discussed why "conservatives" BELIEVE and remain unfazed but I found the article to be unsatisfying. At least the author did concede that it is mostly a "conservative" dysfunction. The author did not use the word dysfunction, that is my term. I confess that I over-estimated our species. And too I reluctantly concede that I have observed disturbingly similar dysfunction from radical leftists.

I don't expect "conservatives" to evolve. I want to say that radical leftists might become healthier, but an honest opinion has to be not so much.

So that leaves the burden of evolution on left leaning moderates. I can only work toward improving myself, a sentiment that radical leftists have had no qualms trying to exploit with gaslighting. That is a particularly aggressive and nasty tactic that I still feel that I have not sufficiently countered. Staying simple, direct, and focused (Vote Democratic) is the most effective counter I have deployed. I guess we will see whether I can do better as we progress toward November 2020.

I wish you all peace, love, and clarity. Except of course Russian trolls and cave morons. You people can fuck off + die.

[marylandblue]

1. I agree with, but we do have an ally in moderate conservatives

The sort of we normally don't get along with but now vote Democratic because of Trump. They are important because they are the few who put country over party. And after Trump is gone, they will go back to being the loyal opposition.

[empedocles]

5. I do think more 'moderates' will continue going Dem, especially as the news gets louder.

I see fox news [during some of my gym exercise, a few hours a week]. I notice that with commentary news, fox is fox, that is misleadingly favoring trump. However, as the news gets louder, with indictments, guilty pleas, prison sentences, ['President Trump's personal lawyer has pleaded guilty and has been sentenced to 3 years in prison . . . '], then moderates, indifferent voters, numbers of republican voters are starting to move away from trump. That's how I see it.

[denbot]

2. What is a radical leftist?

Some who doesn’t cage kids, believes in equal rights and pay, child labor laws, environmental protections, civil rights, voting rights, health care, war as a last resort only?

[Andy823]

4. The crowd that left DU

And started their own board called JPR who promoted voting for trump because Hillary was a "much worse" option. Can't get much more "radical"!

[denbot]

6. No, they were right wingers in the mode of thirdwaymanny

Their objective is moving the goalposts to the right.

[Andy823]

14. Actually

They were diehard Bernie supporters that went over the edge when Bernie lost the primaries.

You can go over to the JPR site and still see for yourself. Heck some of them are back posting their agenda on DU right now.

As for Manny, he was just a shit stirrer.

[denbot]

15. Bernie was their stalking horse

It is what they advocate, not who. It was also about divide and conquer here on DU, just like the trolls do now.

[LanternWaste]

51. Any objective evidence to support your allegations?

Or is yours simply another in a line of what you call a 'steaming pile' (i.e., opinions pretending to be valid conclusions).

Odd.. you request an objective definition of radical leftist, and argue against those with subjective and unsupported statements.

I suppose it's simply easier to hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to.

[denbot]

53. Start your own research here

https://www.democraticunderground.org/1280215212

[NutmegYankee]

22. Authoritarian Left

Think of the group who wants to restrict speech via the power of the government to imprison people. Or classic communism, which while backing equality, seeks to impose that equality through force while maintaining strict control.

[denbot]

39. Straight out of free Republic

Thanks for leaving that little steamer here.

[NutmegYankee]

40. Seriously?

I’d say that most of the left leaning people in the US believe in Democracy and liberty. But let’s not kid ourselves that there isn’t a tiny group that is hard core authoritarian. I also doubt they associate with DU.

If you want to name call, then fine do that. I’m proud to embrace my liberalism. Part of that is being honest and truthful.

[denbot]

41. "Honest and truthful.."

“Seriously” back at you.

[NutmegYankee]

42. *yawn* Your faux offense convinces no one.

What is your real motive?

[denbot]

44. In my 18+ years here, I have no fucks to give about convincing anyone.

As for motives, mine is only to occasionally voice my own opinion.

[NutmegYankee]

45. And you voice it, even when it has no connection to reality.

Take care!

[denbot]

46. Have fun back at JPR

[NutmegYankee]

47. Never went there, or want to.

It amuses me you think that I did. How on earth did you ever think that up?

[empedocles]

3. Saw fox news 5 earlier. Comment was made that most voters [probably meant most

republican voters], could care less about a 'campaign funding violation' issue. [Neglecting to mention it was a 'felony campaign funding' issue].

Just saw Rachel who talked of the extraordinary, unprecedented trump disaster problem week.

[Oddly, both fox and Rachel may be accurate! . . . Having talked to a few trumpers in the last couple of weeks, its easy to see that they notice a few uncomfortable headlines, and with fox like news sources helpfully editing, easily turn their attention elsewhere. It doesn't seem to be 'delusion', more like careless indifference. On the other hand, Rachel is of course right. It was an unprecedented crazy week. . . . That is the seriously conflicted, strange world we live in, imo].

[empedocles]

9. In a nutshell, that may well be why the seasoned Dem leadership resists any

rush to impeachment; any trying to force trump to a quick end. The education of the public, is a long process. That process needs time to play out to maximum impact. Mueller could have brought a prima facie case report against trump long ago - and trump would probably have prevailed victoriously. Mueller, however, is patient, thorough, seasoned and is doing well against entrenched republican strongholds.

[Downtown Hound]

7. "I too reluctantly concede that I have observed

similar dysfunction from radical leftists."

No, you have not. Nothing the left has done can even hold a candle to what the Trump Cult is currently doing. Enough with the false equivalency bullshit. It plays right into the Republican's hands. No, I'm not saying the left is perfect or without any sin. But don't you dare say that we even come close to what the right is doing. They are not the same. We are not even on the same scale. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

You got that?

[Cary]

8. Nope. Don't "got that."

Nice try though.

[Downtown Hound]

12. Your helping the GOP with that bullshit

And that fact remains whether you get it or not.

[Cary]

16. Oh no I'm chasing away Stein voters!

It's all my fault whtever will I do?

<rolling eyeballs>

[Downtown Hound]

18. No, you're giving aid to the "both sides do it" camp.

Both sides do not do it. The Trump crowd has completely divorced itself from reality and are in the process of inventing their own. No, both sides do not do that. However misguided the Stein wing is, they at least still have a foot somewhat planted in the real world.

Both sides do not do it. Nothing the left does approached the level of criminality, delusion, and hypocrisy the right engages in. End of story.

[Cary]

21. Hahahahahaha!

Hahahahahahahaha!

Ha!

Thanks for the laugh. I'm doing "both sides do it" because I find fault in radicalism. That's rich.

[Downtown Hound]

24. LOL.

The post I responded to was exactly you saying that both sides do it, and now you're trying to deny that that is what you are saying. You did not say your found fault in radicalism. You said you saw the same dysfunction on the left as you do on the right. That is horseshit, as is your attempt to walk it back.

Thanks for playing.

[Cary]

25. "Both sides do it" is a logical fallacy, and a ploy

It is used by "conservatives" to justify the atrociousness of Republicans. It was also used by Ron Paul cult followers who seem to have dissolved and blended in with Individual 1 cult followers.

I did no such thing. Not even close. You are dismissed for being ridiculous.

[Downtown Hound]

31. Yes it is a logical fallacy

And it is also used by people too intellectually lazy to discern the incredible differences between the left and the right, even amongst its radicals. Just like what you're doing.

[pecosbob]

10. Oh yeah...moderates are going to save civilization from the radicals

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2018, 01:14 AM - Edit history (1)

When the left here in America start bombing public buildings and driving over people for their political affiliation I'll grant you equivalency. Until then, I say its a bunch of tripe.

Seriously...I mean who is the 'radical left' in this country? Did the Weathermen get back together for a command performance? Did the Earth Firsters start spiking trees again?

Someone's been listening to way too much corporate propaganda.

[Cary]

11. Unfortunately I am entitled to my opinion

You are entitled to blame anyone you wish for that sad fact. The idea that a thinking person might be critical of the radical left is just too much for you, eh?

[Downtown Hound]

13. If you're referring to the Naderite/Jill Stein wing of the left

You'll find that most people here are actually quite critical of them. The difference is we don't engage in false equivalencies. Those are the products of a lazy mind.

[Cary]

17. What false equivalence do you accuse me of?

If "most people here have actually been quite critical of them^ then it is illogical for you to claim that my is either false or lazy. I assure that my criticism of the radical left is well informed and well taken, and not dependent in any way on "conservatives."

It seems to me, too, that blindly flinging epithets like "false equivalency" is lazy.

[Downtown Hound]

19. You already know the answer to that.

Not going to bother explaining it to you again.

[Cary]

20. Yes I do know the answer

For some reason you're all butt hurt by my criticism of the radical left so you're acting out.

And too you don't bother to defend your attack because you can't.

Thanks for playing.

[Downtown Hound]

23. Just tired of bullshit false equivalencies

And yes, that is what you are doing.

[Cary]

26. I am supposed to care how you feel?

That's rich too. Can you make an actual argument? Or are you strictly emotional?

[Downtown Hound]

30. I already made an argument

And the only one being emotional here is you. You said you see the same dysfunction on the left as on the right. I said that's bullshit. Now you explain why they are the same. You make an argument that backs up your claim. Can you do that? Or are you too emotional?

[Mosby]

27. one thing the far right and the far left have in common

Is a complete distrust of the MSM, that includes publications like the NYT and WaPo.

I tried to push back against the Antisemitism at JPR, but when they think that all the standard media outlets are "compromised" it becomes hopeless. You can't debate people when they are relying on a completely different set of "facts".

[Cary]

28. Radicals value being obnoxious

If they aren't obnoxious they aren't radicals any more.

[Downtown Hound]

32. Is this what you call a well thought out argument?

From your posts, radicals aren't the only ones who value being obnoxious, but at least they do it for a cause.

[Cary]

35. Why do you ask?

Do you even realize that you are trying to divert the subject to me, personally? You want me to defend myself to you?

Wby?

[Downtown Hound]

36. You spent about a dozen posts asking me to explain myself to you

And now you're questioning me doing it to you in return?

[Cary]

37. Answer my question

[Downtown Hound]

38. I just did

You asked me time and again to make an argument even though I have made one numerous times. So in return I asked you to explain your initial statement that you saw the same dysfunction on both sides.

Now I answered your question, again. Your turn to answer mine. Explain how the two are the same. Waiting...

[Cary]

43. So you admit you divert the subject to me, personally.

But your alleged explanation as to why you do that is pure evasion.

[Downtown Hound]

48. Coming from the guy that won't answer my question

Despite being repeatedly asked, that really stings.

[Cary]

49. Dude, I'm not rhe least bit interested in how you feel

Which part of that don't you understand?

Do you have an objectively reasonable argument? So far your only "argument" is "Cary sucks."

[Downtown Hound]

50. And so far all you've done is deflect and evade

And accuse everybody else of what you yourself are guilty of.

[Kurt V.]

29. working to improve ones self is commendable.

saying fuck off and die is the opposite of that.

[Cary]

33. Au contraire

There is notbing more important than keeping one's boundaries. Telling some people to fuck off and die is healthy, appropriate, and necessary.

[lark]

52. Love your last sentence.

When I was a teen a friend started using an expression I'm still fond of today for situations like this -

ESAD - Eat shit and die. In this case, ESAD Russian Repugs.

[DFW]

54. "Conservative" is a perfectly respectable word that has been hijacked by the radical right

Held hostage for an as yet unnamed ransom.

"Conservative," in English, anyway, does NOT mean "Republican," "anti-abortion rights," "religious fanatic," "hate-filled ignorant," or "obsessed nationalist."

I am your classic conservative, at least as defined in a dictionary of the English language (as opposed to Republicanese).

I still work for the same outfit that recruited me out of college in 1975. I have been with the same wonderful woman since 1974. We have raised two solid, intelligent children who have grown up, think independently, did well in their respective colleges, and have jobs in which they earn their own living and are well-respected in their chosen fields.

I am risk-averse, and do not like to make rash, un-thought-out decisions. I have no debts. I have no addictions, not even to alcohol, religion or nicotine. My favorite American philosopher is Thomas Jefferson.

I am the epitome of “conservative.” Why am I a Democrat? Simple: I do not believe that having a different skin color, belief, or income makes one a superior or an inferior being to myself.

Fox "News" is NOT a conservative media outlet. Rush Limbaugh is NOT a conservative radio show host. Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Orrin Hatch, Louie Gohmert, Steve King, Mike Pence, Betsey DeVos, etc. etc. etc. are NOT conservative politicians. They are extremist rightists who are no more "conservatives" than they are turnips.