Mike Rowe of 'Dirty Jobs' says 'follow your passion' is bad advice - here's what to do instead

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Former star of the Discovery Channel's "Dirty Jobs" Mike Rowe wants to close America's skills gap.

Right now, there are more than 7 million job openings in the U.S., with not nearly enough qualified workers to fill them. As the CEO of MikeRoweWorks Foundation, Rowe has partnered with footwear and apparel company Wolverine to provide up-and-coming trade workers with the financial support they need to launch their careers.

Currently, according to Wolverine, just 9 percent of high school students are planning to pursue a trade career. In order to change this, Rowe says we have to change our perception of what we consider a "good job."

We also need to stop telling young people to follow their passion.

"We need to stop telling young people that the only way to be happy is to correctly identify your passion when you're 18, 19 and 20 years old," Rowe told CNBC Make It at a recent Wolverine event. "We basically force them to figure out what is going to make them happy and then they get this idea in their head of 'I'm going to be a musician. Or, I'm going to be an executive or an accountant.'"

While all of those are good jobs, Rowe says that following this mindset typically sends young people down a long road of expensive schooling and training "in order to start feeling happy and fulfilled wherever they land." In the end, he says, many people end up trapped — swimming in student loan debt, without any viable job options.

Instead, Rowe advises young people to follow opportunity and to then take their passion with them.

"On 'Dirty Jobs,' I met countless people who were doing things that visually didn't look like anything you wanted to be doing," he says. These jobs "looked like the thing you would go out of your way to avoid. But then, when you sit down and talk to them, you find out that they make six figures a year, and they have a vacation, and they have enough balance in their life to coach their kid's little league team and they don't have any debt."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-says-follow-your-passion-is-bad-advice-–-heres-what-to-do-instead/ar-BBQAfCo?li=BBnb7Kz

[GopherGal]

1. Context is everything...

I saw "Dirty Jobs" discussed on DU and thought it was news of a Chief of Staff candidate.

[Lithos]

2. Rowe is an overpaid idiot

Most of those who are on his show do this because they had to, not because it was their first choice.

Most also fell into their line of work *after* following their passion.

People never plan on being whatever niche job he reported on as part of his show. It happened while they were looking for something else.

Screw him...

NB: I think those who do an honest day's work and are happy are awesome. I am appreciative if they also earn a living wage for it. However, people like Rowe tend to focus on a very specific, and often opinionated version of what this actually means.

L-

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. I don't think he's being that specific

Quite the opposite in fact. I know many who majored in one area and ended up in an entirely different career.

Where I do agree with Rowe is why should one accrue a ton of debt if one is not going to be compensated in the end.

College was affordable when I went. These days not so for many.

[Lithos]

7. He's been opinionated in the past

He's actually anti-intellectual...

L-

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

14. Oh God forbid one has an opiinion

I happen to agree with him at least in this case.

[Lithos]

12. you hold a bit of a more nuanced view - I will respond

Mike R. focuses more on the business than the trade. Ie, the need for people to do "X" than the people actually doing "X"

He also never talks about what it *takes* for people to be actually do the work. He disparages the lack of people, but does nothing to solve the issue.

The issue is *NOT* that people are unwilling to work, but that no one is willing to pay a living wage with living benefits. This is a societal and governmental problem.

Mike R. tries to make the problem of the worker and worker-candidate than the actual situation.

[Lithos]

18. A few random thoughts

1) Rowe tended towards a very white audience where people of color were definitely used as "worker" - not owners.

2) Whiskey Grinder's comment says a lot:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11555572

3) Living Wage

Mike R. seemed to imply work alone would be sufficient - this is of course b-s.

People are:

1) NOT a job /vocation
2) Deserving of respect
3) Have their own dreams...

Mike R. seems to miss these facts.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. Fair enough. I'm out.

[Lithos]

21. Cool

Peace out....

L-

[dawg day]

24. Also, many trade jobs are very hard on the body

It's very difficult to manage to get to 65 as a plumber, for example, because you'll likely get back problems. Carpentry causes repetitive motion injuries.
I come from a long line of "craftsmen," and most of them were in pain from about the age of 40-- serious, disabling pain. And NONE OF THEM made anything remotely like "6 figures". The ones who made more than $14 an hour were all in unions.

It's good honorable work, but it's hard. Most people who work in an office don't worry too much about the effects of weather, but construction means working even in the worst heat and cold-- year after year.

These jobs should pay 6 figures! But they don't.

[groundloop]

34. And of course 'not enough workers' REALLY means 'not enough people willing to work for peanuts'

I'm an engineer and see many companies complaining they can't find good engineering talent, yet the real problem is that they want to pay even less than normal entry level wages for degreed engineers. These are the companies crying to Tiny to open up our country to more foreign workers.

ALSO, as others have mentioned, it's bullshit to expect folks doing manual labor and skilled trades type jobs to work until they're 67. Hell, even as an engineer in my current job I have to do a lot of climbing, crawling around on floors to get under equipment, etc. and at 60 this is starting to get difficult. I work with electricians who are younger than me and are starting to have issues with their back, knees, etc. that's making it hard for them to do their job. Our retirement age needs to come down, not keep going up.

[area51]

55. This.

"Our retirement age needs to come down, not keep going up."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Let me know when he talks about unions, which are the reason these jobs are good jobs.

[groundloop]

36. Damned straight. I wish more people understood that.

And what I REALLY don't get is that a lot of the union members I work with support the repub party. It seems to me that the unions should do more to educate workers as to which political party supports them and which political party wants to force them to work for peanuts and take away their benefits.

[Raine]

3. Interesting

no disagreement from me, thanks for posting this.

[Progressive Law]

5. Rowe is normalizing the unfortunate consequences of higher education costs.

IMO, people should choose a career path that he/she finds 1) interesting, and 2) meets their intellectual capacity.

But, instead, Rowe suggests people choose a career path that they can afford. He's normalizing this thought process.

[Baltimike]

6. Rowe is a right winger...and from my neck of the woods. nt

[HAB911]

37. I know he supported Romney

and I bet he supports Trump

[Baltimike]

41. He's one of those "I'm in the middle" so as to inoculate protect himself from

his right wing clap trap. I am not kidding about this

Barbara Waters is also a right winger. She pretends to be in the middle, but she's just trying to maintain appearances.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. He can fuck right off. He's a voice for the bosses.

People are more than their productivity.

[Jake Stern]

10. Need to stop foisting the "college degree is the only path to success" bullshit on youth.

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2018, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Time to kill the notion that apprenticeships and trade schools are only for dummies who couldn't hack college and start presenting them as viable alternatives to a college degree in terms of making a good living.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. This

[Raine]

25. Yes, exactly nt

[SoCalDem]

27. There actually was a time when

there were things called "entry-level" job with TRAINING (paid less than what the actual real job would be when the training was finished)

Employers did this so that new hires would be trained in the way THEIR company did things, and would feel at home when they were trained.. They were then actually HIRED..with benefits and sometimes union membership..

This is mostly gone now..

True apprenticeships are rare these days..

Companies want people already trained, even if they then have to UN-train them so comply with their methods.. and some prefer temps so they don't have to give benefits

[Luciferous]

35. My husband only went to trade school. Not only does he support our whole family but he is always

getting job offers because it is so hard to find people with his background and experience. I went to college and graduated during the recession, never found a job in that field and still have student loan debt.

[Kaleva]

42. +1

[obnoxiousdrunk]

51. +1.

[Recursion]

11. Mike Rowe has a God-damned Masters degree in communication and has never had a manual labor job

I'm so sick of this bullshit.

Similarly, all four of the Duck Dynasty sons have Masters degrees, and all four of them grew the beards for the damn show.

My brother is an IBEW electrician, and the people in his local have every level of education from a GED to a PhD (there are actually 2 PhDs on his line). Get the education you want, and then get the job you want. Stop acting like one rules out the other.

[HAB911]

38. THIS THIS THIS

[Kaleva]

43. Are those people with PhD's happy they have their degree?

Or did they think it was a waste of time and money?

[Recursion]

46. I don't think you can go through a dissertation if you don't passionately care about the subject

But, I haven't asked them personally.

[Kaleva]

47. I'm just wondering about now.

Surely they were passionate about their chosen subject back then but am wondering if they think now, since they can't get a job in the field they have a degree in, that maybe spending that much time and money really wasn't worth it.

[unblock]

13. He's got a point, but he's trying to make the wrong one I think

I agree with the idea of taking life as it comes, approaching opportunities with an open mind, and evaluating the whole of a job (which includes salary and hours and lifestyle and benefits).

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in a directed career or pursue a long-term goal. It just means you should be flexible and allow for the fact that you might learn things along the way about certain jobs or about yourself.

Best is when you invest in building your skills. Never know where that'll come in handy.

In my current job, even my high school Spanish has come in handy working on contracts for our Latin American clients. I trained as a computer scientist, but I hardly ever program these days. But the skills I learned still come in handy. The engineering mindset is very useful.

[ansible]

16. This is the same guy who follows the "SWEAT Pledge"

Fuck him

[dansolo]

29. What about a pledge for the bosses?

Basically his messsage is for workers to put up with all the crap, but most of the crap comes from the bosses.

[TexasBushwhacker]

22. Being a tradesman made sense back when most trades were unionized and unions were strong

Union jobs were stable, had pensions and health benefits and supported a solid, middle class lifestyle. He says he showed people doing "dirty jobs" making 6 figures. Really, which ones? Be specific. Six figures means at least $50 an hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year. Sure a construction manager might make $100K +, but a carpenter or plumber, on average, only makes $50K. There's nothing wrong with making $50K. I'd love to be making that again. But when the average home cost $260K, $50K won't buy it unless you have a spouse who makes as much. How long will a person's body last doing physical jobs is a big issue too.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

23. It's likely the ones making six figures are union.

Wonder if that includes OT?

Some occupation like electricians or crane operators pay pretty well. I'm sure there are others.

[TexasBushwhacker]

28. I'm equally sure Mike Rowe is full of shit

Salary info is available from the BLS. The vast majority of people making six figures work in professions requiring college degrees. I have no problem with Rowe recommending that young people get training in the trades. I just want him to be honest about the money to be made, the working conditions etc.

[liberalmuse]

26. Bad advice.

He makes millions shilling for The Man. He pretends he knows what it’s like to work a dirty job, but he goes home to a big house, nice car and huge paycheck, unlike most of those featured on his show. He earns more money from corporations by telling the plebes to ditch our dreams and passions and worker harder for lesser and lesser pay. Stuff it, Rowe!

[tblue37]

40. There is nothing wrong with being a plumber. Or a mechanic.

One of my brothers took an associate degree in electronics with his Air Force GI Bill and ultimately ended up trouble shooting bank computers. Made enough money to retire early, but kept getting offered lucrative side jobs and earned nearly as much in retirement.

My other brother studied nuclear physics in college, got bored, dropped out and joined the Air Force. Stationed in Thailand during the Viet Nam War. Came back and used his GI Bill to become an auto mechanic. Made good money, including doing side jobs repairing motorcycles and foreign cars, but then took a job as safety engineer (not an engineer) for a chemical plant in Texas. Retired at 50 with enough money to start his own scuba diving school and traveled the world following his scuba diving passion.

I teach college, but because schools are tenured in and I was stuck here after my divorce because I wanted my kids to have access to their dad, I became an adjunct, which is a good way for a person with multiple degrees to be poor. Those are one-year contracts and you get paid by the section--and not much pay. No job security, either, and no guarantee of how many sections.

Fifteen years ago I was given a salaried multiyear fulltime adjunct position. I am 68 years old. I am acknowledged to be extremely good at what I do, which is why I was offered the long term contracts with a salary, but when my current term is up, I suspect my university will think twice about signing me at age 69 to another 3-year contract.

Furthermore, my salary at age 68, after teaching here since 1972 (from TA to lecturerer), is just $43,000. I can't afford to retire, and my Social Security is not high, because I earned so little most of my life, and not that much even now. I have always had jobs on the side to make ends meet. For 18 years I ran a home daycare (while still teaching) and had my own dressmaking shop at the same time, as well as tutoring and freelance editing and writing. I don't sew any more because of crippling arthritis, nor do I do any sort of babysitting. But I still tutor, edit, and write, because I still need to save money for when I am no longer wanted by my university.

I had surgery nearly 4 years ago, and with my "good" state employee insurance, it still took me a year to pay off my $5000 co-pay. I have other monthly costs because of health problems, plus expensive meds whose prices keep jumping. MY BP med that used to cost $30/month is now $178/month--and the generic version doesn't control my BP. We have tried others, but they don't work on me, either. Another (generic) drug I take that was once $9/month is now $66/month. I use one other med that is $195/month, but my pharmacist found a coupon that brings it down to $40/month. I don't know if or when that coupon will run out, though, and push me back to the higher price.

Meanwhile, one of my retired brothers followed his passion and built a car from scratch. He and his wife travel a lot, whenever they like. My scuba diving brother gave up scuba diving some years ago for health reasons, but now he spends his time fishing and volunteering at at a nearby Sea Life Center, following his passionate love for oceans and sea life. He also volunteers to help handicapped children fish. He wanted kids but never had any, so he truly loves working with these kids and helping them have fun. It's like being an uber-grandpa!

Our whole society has this classist, snobbish contempt for people who don't have 4-year degrees or graduate/professional degrees and who do trade work, and that is just wrong! My brilliant doctor daughter who was a Fullbright fellow, also has two master's degrees, is double-boarded (two different medical specialties), and was the lead field doctor on the Red Bull Stratos project (among other incredible accomplishments and jobs she still does), has twice married men who work in "trades." Her first husband, a Frenchman, was a classically trained French chef. She is now married to a man who has a union job setting up communications systems for state and city agencies. At first some members of her overeducated other family (her dad's side) recoiled at her less "degreed" choices. Her second husband actually did 4 years of college but changed majors more than once and finally dropped out short of getting the degree in order to take a good job. Still, his blue-collar job and lack of a degree was a bit of an issue for the other family at first.

Both of her husbands were very smart, and as a product of French education, her first husband was actually better educated and better read than most Americans with undergrad or even graduate degrees. She did NOT marry "down" intellectually (well, no more so than she would no matter whom she married--she really is brilliant).

So, yeah, I tell my students that there are other options, and I help them figure out what those are and whether they might prefer them. Our social attitudes are lagging reality. At one time a college degree was a path to a nearly guaranteed decent job, with minimal debt. Now it's a guaranteed debt of tens of thousands of dollars at the beginning of their adult life, and no guarantee they won't end up being an Uber driver or a Starbucks barista.

I am a firm believer in a liberal arts education, but you can get that with a will, a library card a computer or a tablet to access the net and to use as an e-reader, and an internet connection. And you don't even really need the computer/e-reader, but it just makes it much easier. Both my "blue-collar" brothers are very well-educated, even without degrees, as are both the men my daughter married.

[liberalmuse]

49. I agree.

My extended family are working class. I have a problem with Rowe exploiting the working class and disseminating Corporate culture disinformation.

[Bigredhunk]

30. -

Such a douche.

Does everybody need to go to college (or should they)? No. But someone doesn't need to hear from some rich azzhole that they should be a plumber. The rich guy's kid isn't going to be a plumber. It always reminds me of "Caddyshack," "The world needs ditch diggers too."

[rockfordfile]

31. This guy is a far right extremist

[HAB911]

39. +++++++++++

[Bucky]

54. He didn't leave the far right, the far right left him

[elocs]

32. Follow your passion is not necessarily bad advice, but it might not be good either.

I have a friend who in her 20s was a single mom with 2 young kids.
She followed her passion and went to school and got a degree in commercial art. Then when it was obvious there were no jobs for that, she went back to school and got a degree in histology (they make the slides from a biopsy so the pathologist can read it). She now runs her own lab and makes $80,000 a year.
Histology is her passion now, but when she went to school for it, it was just a way to get a good job and support her family.

[tblue37]

33. This is similar to what I tell my college students. There is no shame in blue collar work. nt

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2018, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

[erpowers]

44. Follow Your Passion Is Good Advice

Telling kids to follow their passion is good advice. What we need to stop doing is telling kids that they have to do everything they can to get into school like Harvard and other Ivy League school. We need to start telling kids they can get, if not the same education from public college, just about the same education from a public school that they can get from a Ivy League school.


Also, I think we need to do a better job of connecting kids to mentors. We need to teach kids how to network. We need to do more to help kids get jobs when they are leaving college. We need to expose kids to careers while they are in high school and college. I think we need to move more toward a college and high school system that focuses on kids getting career experience. We need to learn what kids want to do in the future and focus their high school and college summers on getting kids experience in those fields. For example, if a kids is considering becoming a doctor we need to try to find a way for that kid to spend time working in a medical environment.

[exboyfil]

52. You can become a CNA at 16 in some states

Unfortunately because of liability consideration it is difficult to get a job before 18. My daughter got her CNA certification when she was 16, but she was unable to get a job. As you said it would be good for aspiring doctors to have some medical experience whether it is CNA or EMT or Nursing. It is awful to think that the traditional route involves little of this experience until the 3rd year of medical school. That is seven years building for a career without knowing if you will be able to handle the patient interaction. That is part of the reason why we have so many poor doctors.

Very good advice about Ivy League schools. My daughters did not get on the Honors and AP hamster wheel. I had them taking community college classes which transferred towards defined degrees (one at a public university in engineering and the other at a university affiliated nursing school). At 22 and 21 they are making more than the family medium income in our state.

[erpowers]

53. Congratulations to You and Your Daughters

I did not know that a person could become a CNA at 16. I tend to think it is better to let kids take college courses instead of taking AP classes. If a kid can handle an AP class just let the kid take a college course. I have heard people say that AP classes are cheaper than college courses, but I still think school should do more to allow students to take courses at community colleges in their areas.

[TeamPooka]

45. Rowe campaigned with Romney but tried saying he wasn't endorsing him. Fuck that guy.

and his "be a drone" philosophy.

[Iggo]

48. Right wing hack.

[FakeNoose]

50. Our system of free enterprise is what built our middle class

American free enterprise is the envy of the world, or at least it was 50 years ago. If you have a better idea, if you can build a better mousetrap, if you can provide a service that everyone needs and wants, you can go into business for yourself and maybe get rich. You can also fall flat on your face, but that's the risk you take. Being your own boss doesn't require a college degree, but you do need the smarts even without a degree. Successful business owners can hire smart people, but they need to be successful first.

I've know plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. who have gone into business for themselves and have done quite well. The "trade school training" these people received costs less than a college/university degree, but they had to take the leap and decide for themselves (at a young age) to take that path. Not everyone has the discipline or the mindset to be in business for themselves, but those who have it will benefit financially. I hope the Democratic Party will one day recognize how our free enterprise has given that hand-up to folks who would otherwise have been stuck in poverty for another generation.