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(81,578 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)dalton99a
(81,578 posts)brooklynite
(94,728 posts)enid602
(8,652 posts)tRumps nuts roasting on an open fire . . .Jack Fost nipping on his ass . . .
Zoonart
(11,878 posts)My guess is that's where the "treason" talk springs from.
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Flynn and his lawyer must have thought that it's best to make a total disclosure rather than risk what a clearly hostile judge was about to do to Flynn.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)the sentencing guidelines, which the judge could have done. Part of the plea deal was an agreement not to appeal from whatever the sentence was. There will be a status hearing in 90 days. Trump still talks nice about Flynn; is Flynn angling for a pardon?
Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)
The Velveteen Ocelot This message was self-deleted by its author.
eleny
(46,166 posts)It has to be a frightening proposition when your sentencing judge talked about yourself and treason in the same sentence. Who knows what can happen to you in there.
It's best that Flynn sing his guts out before the next sentencing hearing.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)If Flynn has more info it should be the Prosecution that is asking for the delay..... not a delay pushed by the judge. Who says the Prosecution is interested in anything else from Flynn?. I never had a cooperating client sentenced BEFORE the prosecution was done with them. The judge has zero authority to make the Prosecution continue to use Flynn in any capacity.
eleny
(46,166 posts)So I think the judge used his sentencing authority to "urge" Flynn to cooperate to the extent that he spills all his guts and then come back for sentencing.
Just my lay person's opinion. But that's how it looks to me. He doesn't want to let Flynn walk away until Mueller says they're exhausted getting information from him.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)But the judge can't force the Prosecution to spend one more second with Flynn. If Flynn was still in the process of actively helping the Prosecution in new areas of investigation the Prosecution would have requested a delay.
eleny
(46,166 posts)Thanks for the legal details. Given those, it looks like the judge is pushing Flynn to be more than eager to seek out the Special Counsel and spill every damn thing he knows. No pulling teeth. No please and thank you. Just a complete and voluntary purging of his guts.
And I believe the tiny straw that pushed this judge over the edge was the nonsense about Flynn not knowing it was a crime to lie to the FBI. How aggravating was that? Cohen and now Flynn working every dumb angle at this point is insulting to the courts.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)In the end, Flynn could try and give more info but the prosecution has zero legal responsibility to give any additional benefit to Flynn. If I was Flynn's attorney I'd be very uncomfortable with advising my client to present new info to Mueller. That would undoubtedly backfire because Mueller could then argue that Flynn had not been completely cooperative during all his interviews prior to the original sentencing date.
eleny
(46,166 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)Obviously he was outraged at what Flynn actually did, and I'll bet he didn't think Flynn deserved the prosecution's sweet deal. Clearly, he was also pissed off at Flynn's lawyers' suggestion that the FBI entrapped or misled him. The judge could have done an upward departure from the guidelines today, though. I don't know what the 90-day extension is supposed to do if Flynn has already sung all his songs.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)identified the judge's motive. It appears that he believes Flynn deserves more consequences than the prosecution is asking for,
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)than the sentencing guidelines recommends, on the basis of the severity of the crime. What I don't get is why he delayed sentencing, unless there was something in the redacted material that suggested to the judge that Flynn has more information that can be squeezed out of him.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)he doesn't want either of two things to happen: first, that Flynn's legal team appeals and has the verdict overturned, or second, that Trump uses this as an excuse to pardon Flynn, thus vacating the conviction. I think it is better that he calls their bluff.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)H2O Man
(73,605 posts)If he did, it would be an obvious attempt to obstruct justice before the case is settled. Thus, he would be far, far, far more likely to do so if the judge sentenced him today. The judge's ruling today keeps open the central question of why Flynn lied.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)Since when has trump shown any restraint in his ongoing attempts to obstruct?. Ha!
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)I'm mildly surprised that he hasn't attempted to pardon himself. The only reason he hasn't pardoned guys like Flynn and Manafort is because of what his legal team, a couple administration officials, and republican Senators have told him the consequences would be bad, very bad, for him.
Mr. Mueller knows why Flynn lied. He hasn't released that yet, because it is linked to other campaign/transition activities. In that context, it is a good thing the judge is offering Flynn the opportunity to withdraw his plea, and go to trial.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)and Tiny could pardon him at any time. So I think the judge knows he can be squeezed for more cooperation.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)The judge could certainly broadcast his intent to jail Flynn and suggest he might want to provide the court with mitigating evidence to change its mind. That's a completely different animal than the court trying to interfere in the prosecutor's position on additional cooperation. I'm befuddled.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)Maybe something like that did happen, but it hasn't been reported either because the reporters emailing reports from the courtroom aren't familiar with those procedures, or because something has been agreed to in writing which will come out later. I expect a transcript will become available before long.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)Reporters not versed in criminal procedure reporting about criminal procedure.
eleny
(46,166 posts)I thought I read or heard that in recent days when we saw Mueller's redacted document.
Flynn (and most recently Cohen) have been acting like wise guys trying every dumb angle to get off with no jail time. Having read the entire Mueller document the judge is completely disgusted and doesn't trust Flynn or his lawyers. He seems to expect a voluntary spilling of the guts prior to sentencing as proof of Fynn's sincerity. That's not too much to ask of someone who sold out his country, eh?
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)the Prosecution would have asked for a continuance. Also, continued cooperation could just be an agreement to testify in the future about the information he's already provided.
eleny
(46,166 posts)There's the agreement that Flynn will continue to cooperate as needed. So what's at the heart of the judge's action today?
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)I find it confusing. Sounds to me like judge wants more info about why this plea is appropriate, and that it might be too lenient.
eleny
(46,166 posts)Perhaps harder for you than me since you're versed where I'm not.
Now I wonder who will act first, Flynn or Mueller, to move all this forward.
eleny
(46,166 posts)Btw, I hope you post an OP with your thoughts on all this now that more details have been revealed about what was said in the courtroom today.
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)They were discussing the judge. Like you, they speculated that the "judge wants more info about why this plea is appropriate, and that it might be too lenient".
Nevermypresident
(781 posts)Why did prosecutors bring forth sentencing if more cooperation was anticipated from Flynn?
C_U_L8R
(45,020 posts)he must be completely flummoxed
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)He'll figure out some demented spin to put on the whole thing.
C_U_L8R
(45,020 posts)Don't want to see his face either but would so enjoy his pained and confused expression
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,839 posts)Xolodno
(6,401 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)Fuck you and your pardon power too.
FakeNoose
(32,748 posts)They're really putting the screws to Cheeto and all the other guilty parties in Washington.
Let them have a "Merry Christmas" now. NOT!!!
Thank you Judge Grinch!