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Dread Pirate Roberts

(1,896 posts)
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 07:47 PM Dec 2018

Benedict Arnold was a hero.

When you hear the name Benedict Arnold, what is the first thing that comes to mind? Traitor, right? Thing is, the guy was a hero first. Gravely wounded in a pitched battle at Quebec City. He stopped a British invasion via Lake Champlain. He won the day at the Battle of Bemis Heights that led to the eventual British surrender of Burgoyne's entire army at Saratoga. Eventually, he became disillusioned and felt he was disrespected and denied accolades to which he felt entitled. His bitterness led him to eventually betray our country and cemented the legacy, and infamy, that he so richly deserved.

Flynn likewise was a hero. He served the country honorably. But something went awry. Somewhere along the line, bitterness and resentment overcame his good judgement. Make no mistake about it. He sold our country out for a handful of gold. He's a traitor just as certain as Benedict Arnold was. He deserves the infamy and scorn that accompanies the name "Benedict Arnold" which has become a term in and of itself connoting someone who is a traitor. That will be Flynn's legacy-and it should be. Henceforth, the name Michael Flynn should carry the same significance. Shame, scorn, and the cloud of treason-whether or not it fits the legal definition, shall follow him far into the future long after he's dead and buried. Michael Flynn, traitor, sell-out, betrayer of our country. Woe be to him. May he rot in hell.

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Benedict Arnold was a hero. (Original Post) Dread Pirate Roberts Dec 2018 OP
Colin Powell alluded to this in an email about Flynn-- dawg day Dec 2018 #1
Benedict Arnold was also instrumental in the capture of Fort Ticonderoga, which at the time was dameatball Dec 2018 #2
Benedict Arnold pamdb Dec 2018 #4
We would never had succeeded without the French grantcart Dec 2018 #26
At Times Like This.. Laxman Dec 2018 #3
So many republican Bennies...sad Achilleaze Dec 2018 #5
Arnold was a traitor shenmue Dec 2018 #6
And so is Flynn Dread Pirate Roberts Dec 2018 #11
And one of the most interesting men in history, to anyone who cares to research him. maddiemom Dec 2018 #25
kinda of funny that you bring this up, I just verified just minutes ago we are related beachbum bob Dec 2018 #7
Cousin!! dbackjon Dec 2018 #14
arnold's great grandfather Benedict Anorld (first) is my great-great---grandfather beachbum bob Dec 2018 #20
Great analogy! But Arnold really was done wrong. Not that it warranted his treason, but Squinch Dec 2018 #8
When you commit treason... NeoGreen Dec 2018 #9
Hamilton purposely missed Burr, but Burr didn't return the gentleman's honor Hamilton bestowed. TheBlackAdder Dec 2018 #10
Unless, of course, you were part of the treason called the Confederacy. Then statues galore! nt tblue37 Dec 2018 #13
When Arnold led British forces, he became a real shitbag. geardaddy Dec 2018 #12
Arguably, had Arnold not disobeyed orders at Saratoga... NNadir Dec 2018 #15
Two generals... Flynn & Arnold keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #16
Flynn reminds me of Churchill's quote: "Anyone can rat, but..." Bucky Dec 2018 #17
Flynn and trump are traitors along with the GOP rockfordfile Dec 2018 #18
Yes, Benedict Arnold was embittered blue-wave Dec 2018 #19
Don't tell me this! I will now have to stop using my Benedict Donald moniker joet67 Dec 2018 #21
Good post. Benedict Flynn. nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2018 #22
Same with David Patraeus Poiuyt Dec 2018 #23
Saratoga Monument... NeoGreen Dec 2018 #24

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
1. Colin Powell alluded to this in an email about Flynn--
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 07:54 PM
Dec 2018

About how he'd gotten bitter and "right-wing nutty."


I tried to address that with a Trumper friend, how this anger of hers, the kind of amorphous bitterness, was making her miserable and leading her to be mean to her friends and children. (I was nicer than that in my wording.) She just got angry at me then. But I did mean it for the best-- you can be conservative without being so angry or bitter or ruining your life.
Michael Flynn ruined his own life. I would feel sorry for him, but then I think about him leading those "Lock her up" chants against a woman who had spent much of her life serving the country and who, by the way, had committed no crime.
His bitterness ended up biting him.

dameatball

(7,398 posts)
2. Benedict Arnold was also instrumental in the capture of Fort Ticonderoga, which at the time was
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:08 PM
Dec 2018

not heavily garrisoned for its day, but was nevertheless strategic. Many cannon were seized and used in the eventual defense of Boston.

To me, Benedict Arnold is one of the most interesting characters in the history of the American Revolution. America was fighting for its life, but there was much infighting between both political leaders, military leaders and individual "states" if you want to call them that.
Many petty rivalries existed among our "United States." But we persisted!!!

pamdb

(1,332 posts)
4. Benedict Arnold
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:31 PM
Dec 2018

And infighting between the army and the congress. Arnold lost all his money, his boys after their mother died (I'm not entirely sure where his sons ended up) and lets not forget he was fighting the British since the French and indian war. Check out Kenneth Roberts, Arnolds Expedition to Quebec.

When I was a teenager we followed (in the comfort of our car) Arnolds expedition to Quebec up through northern Maine along the Kennebec River. Black flies everywhere.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
26. We would never had succeeded without the French
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 06:35 PM
Dec 2018

the Army hadn't been paid in months and the British could have just been taken off the coast and relanded elsewhere.

If the French hadn't helped us close the deal we would have to go back to asymmetrical guerrilla war.

Laxman

(2,419 posts)
3. At Times Like This..
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:22 PM
Dec 2018

I wish I believed in Hell. How true, from here on in, calling someone a Mike Flynn should be synonymous with calling them a traitor .

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
25. And one of the most interesting men in history, to anyone who cares to research him.
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 06:20 PM
Dec 2018

Last edited Sat Dec 29, 2018, 05:05 PM - Edit history (2)

He was somewhat the poster child for all the many historical figures who were somewhat "screwed over," and did not react in the accepted, "country over self" way. He was an exception, yet neither a physical coward nor greedy for wealth in his betrayal. He also had a loyalist wife whose family exerted some influence. He was a traitor by almost all definitions, but his era, as all others, require much more thought as we "evolve" Flynn. He has motives of his own to be considered.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
7. kinda of funny that you bring this up, I just verified just minutes ago we are related
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:42 PM
Dec 2018

to Arnold, hows that for timing!

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
14. Cousin!!
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 03:26 PM
Dec 2018

I too am related to Benedict Arnold (not linearly, but a brother of direct ancestor). The other Arnolds had to leave Connecticut after the war because of the bad feelings engendered by Benedict. They settled in the Marietta, OH area, which was were many Rev War vets were given land.

Squinch

(50,949 posts)
8. Great analogy! But Arnold really was done wrong. Not that it warranted his treason, but
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:46 PM
Dec 2018

it happened. Flynn has no such excuse.

TheBlackAdder

(28,194 posts)
10. Hamilton purposely missed Burr, but Burr didn't return the gentleman's honor Hamilton bestowed.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 09:09 PM
Dec 2018

.

And, now history has Hamilton the hero and Burr the wanker.

.

geardaddy

(24,931 posts)
12. When Arnold led British forces, he became a real shitbag.
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 01:09 PM
Dec 2018

From Wikipedia:

He led British forces on raids in Virginia, and they burned much of New London, Connecticut to the ground and slaughtered surrendering forces after the Battle of Groton Heights—just a few miles downriver from the town where he had grown up.

NNadir

(33,518 posts)
15. Arguably, had Arnold not disobeyed orders at Saratoga...
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 03:27 PM
Dec 2018

...there would have been no United States.

There was no inevitability about an American victory. In fact the opposite was true. Without the American victory at Saratoga, the French would not have supported the Americans no matter how charming Benjamin Franklin was. Without French support, the Americans would have lost.

Arnold proved to be a self serving petulant man, a traitor, and a vile stain on our history, but he was nonetheless a vital link to our country's survival.

The current league of traitors working in our White House can make no similar claim. No good that Flynn has done matches the good Arnold did for his country.

If Arnold had died at Saratoga rather than suffer a severe wounding, he'd be remembered among the greatest American heroes. No such consideration has ever come close to appearing in the traitor Flynn.

keithbvadu2

(36,804 posts)
16. Two generals... Flynn & Arnold
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 03:31 PM
Dec 2018

Two generals... Flynn & Arnold

Gen Michael Flynn and Gen Benedict Arnold both started out as patriots who served their country well.

Arnold died a traitor in England.

He was not lucky enough to have a Donald Trump on his side.

Bucky

(54,013 posts)
17. Flynn reminds me of Churchill's quote: "Anyone can rat, but..."
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 03:45 PM
Dec 2018

"...but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to re-rat."

blue-wave

(4,353 posts)
19. Yes, Benedict Arnold was embittered
Fri Dec 21, 2018, 12:36 PM
Dec 2018

It is my understanding that Benedict Arnold turned over the military engineered plans for the fortifications of the Hudson River at West Point to Major John Andre. These are the plans that were drawn by none other than military engineer and the "hero of two continents" Tadeusz Kosciuszko. Andre was captured with the plans and later executed. Arnold eventually fled to England.

Poiuyt

(18,123 posts)
23. Same with David Patraeus
Wed Dec 26, 2018, 06:49 PM
Dec 2018

Highly decorated general and Director of the CIA who got caught giving his mistress classified documents

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
24. Saratoga Monument...
Fri Dec 28, 2018, 09:01 AM
Dec 2018

...
http://www.neatorama.com/2014/01/01/Americas-Monument-to-Its-Most-Infamous-Traitor-Benedict-Arnold/

John Watts de Peyster, a general in the New York State Militia during the Civil War, erected the monument in 1887. Perhaps de Peyster made it in response to the primary monument, which was erected a few years earlier. The 155-foot tall obelisk has niches for four statues. There are statues for three of the four great American leaders of the battle: General Horatio Gates, General Philip Schuyler and Colonel Daniel Morgan. The fourth niche is empty.




General Arnold’s greatest moment came during the Saratoga campaign, which ended with the surrender of an entire British army. The senior American commander, Horatio Gates, was often indecisive and shy of battle. Arnold, in contrast, was eager for battle. He personally led a successful charge on a British redoubt. During that fight, Arnold was shot in the leg and his horse fell on him.

Had Benedict Arnold died that day, he would likely be known as one of the great heroes of the American Revolutionary War. There would be towns, counties and schools named for him.

But he didn’t die. Arnold lived on to betray his country.

Which brings us to the Saratoga battlefield and the scene of Arnold’s most heroic moment.

Part of the Saratoga battlefield area is a national park. On the grounds are assorted monuments to various leaders and events. These were, of course, all built well after Arnold’s betrayal. How does it address the critical and heroic role of America’s most infamous traitor in that battle?




The monument to Arnold is known as the Boot Monument. That’s because it makes no mention of Arnold by name and honors the leg that was broken during the battle. The inscription reads:

In memory of the most brilliant soldier of the Continental army, who was desperately wounded on this spot, winning for his countrymen the decisive battle of the American Revolution, and for himself the rank of Major General.


This is a reposed my reply to another post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016191344
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