Start calling it "Putin's wall" and local trolls back down

[Baltimike]

So as the Festivus season is upon us, there are LOTS of parties, etc to be had. In my neck of the woods, this means a lot of my white friends saying, "I'm not racist, but (insert something racist here)" or "Some of my best friends are (insert minority here)" Well at the local pub, it went down like this:

"I'm not racist, but we need to secure our borders. We need to build that wall"

Me: "Are you afraid of Mexicans?"

Them: "No, but we need to stop them from coming here"

Me: "Why?"

Them: "Because they need to do it the right way"

Me: "Aren't you Italian?" (of Italian descent)

Them: "Yup"

Me: "So did you know what w.o.p. even stands for?"

Them: "Nope"

Me: Do you think anyone who crawled over the border, hungry and thirsty should just get shipped right back?"

Them: "Well, not after so much time with no crimes committed but they should be made to do it the right way"

Me: "What about their kids they have? Are they citizens?"

Them: "Hell fucking no. That anchor baby shit is bullshit, and they should fucking leave"

Me: "Where should you go?"

Them: "No...them...THEY should go. They get opportunities my kids don't get just because they're here. It's bullshit"

Me: "Where should your kids go too?"

Them: "I am Eye-tal-ian. I am a CIT-i-zen"

Me: "What does w.o.p. stand for again?"

Them: "I already told you I didn't know, but my grandparents always said we were W.O.P.s"

Me: "With. Out. Papers." You CRIMINAL. lol

Them: phone out...googling....and then...

Me: "So where are you gonna go? Are you fluent in Italian? Are you ready to be told your life here isn't good enough to someone? Did you know it's a MISDEMEANOR to be here illegally and you want to treat it like a capital offense? Remember the 1980's when Reagan said, "Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall", it was humiliating for Russia. It was awesome for us, but a slap in the face for them. Now Russia wants a border wall. YOU HEARD ME. This is a big ass sucker bet that you're falling for. It's Putin's wall, and it has NOTHING to do with protecting us".

Them: "No way..."

But then they got quiet. REAL quiet.

and then...

Them: "Shit"

I chalked it up to over, hung out a bit more, mingled around here and there and then I get a social media message: "Thanks"

Each one...reach one. Each one...teach one.

We are at war right now whether we like it or not.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Great conversation, but I'm gonna pick one little nit:

"WOP" probably doesn't really stand for With Out Papers. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/wop-doesnt-mean-what-andrew-cuomo-thinks-it-means/558659/

[luvtheGWN]

2. Not sure I totally agree with that author.

Italian Canadians thought WOP stood for Without Official Papers.

POSH came from colonial Great Britain when it ruled India. For those making the trip around the horn of Africa (no Suez Canal in those very early days) the best staterooms on the way to India were on the Port side so that the western sun didn't beat down on them and make the rooms unbearably hot. Conversely, on the way back from India, the best cabins were on the Starboard side of the ship -- for the same reason. Only the wealthy could afford those preferred cabins. And the Brits were no stranger to acronyms. Take SOS for example -- Save Our Ship. And they (especially the Cockneys) made up words built on acronyms, so that their "betters" wouldn't know they were insulting them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. These are examples of folk etymology. Acronyms were rarely used until

the mid-20th century. "Posh" has a much older origin:

Most likely derived from Romani posh (“half”), either because posh-kooroona (“half a crown”) (originally a substantial sum of money) was used metaphorically for anything pricey or upper-class, or because posh-houri "half-penny" became a general term for money.

A period slang dictionary defines "posh" as a term used by thieves for "money : generic, but specifically, a halfpenny or other small coin". An example is given from Page's Eavesdropper (1888): "They used such funny terms: 'brads,' and 'dibbs,' and 'mopusses,' and 'posh' ... at last it was borne in upon me that they were talking about money."

Evidence exists for a slang sense from the 1890s meaning "dandy", which is quite possibly related.

A popular folk etymology holds that the term is an acronym for "port out, starboard home", describing the cooler, north-facing cabins taken by the most aristocratic or rich passengers travelling from Britain to India and back. However, there is no evidence for this claim.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh

Likewise, "SOS" was said to mean "save our ship" only after it started to be used in Morse code. The configuration of three dots and three dashes was used because it was easy to remember.

SOS is the International Morse code distress signal...

The SOS distress signal is a continuous sequence of three dots, three dashes, and three dots, with no spaces between the letters (notated by the overscore). In International Morse Code, three dots form the letter S, and three dashes make the letter O, so "S O S" became a way to remember the order of the dots and dashes....

In popular usage, SOS became associated with such phrases as "Save Our Souls" and "Save Our Ship". SOS is only one of several ways that the combination could have been written; for example, IWB, VZE, 3B, or V7 all produce exactly the same sound; SOS is just the easiest to remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOS

[luvtheGWN]

5. Interesting thing about word etymology

is that it doesn't take into consideration the how and the why such words start to be used in everyday conversation (in other words, keeping up with what folks mean when they use the word at different periods of time). Ask most Brits over the age of 75 what they consider the origin of the word "posh" and they will give the answer I made in my earlier post.

My late father-in-law, who emigrated from Italy to Montreal knew nothing of the possibly Spanish origin on WOP, and considered himself an immigrant "Without Official Papers".

And SOS is totally descriptive of the "Save Our Ship" because that was how most people travelled way back then.

So while it's very interesting for scholars to delve deep into the meaning of such acronyms, they don't seem to always consider the times and the people who actually used them.

Just saying! Happy Boxing Day!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. And that's exactly why it's called folk etymology.

It's an origin that seems to make sense that's picked up and passed along over time irrespective of the actual origin. Nothing wrong with it, of course; it's just interesting to know where words really came from.

[lunatica]

4. Ooooh! You're nasty!

I like you!

[spike jones]

7. off topic regarding Festivus

I am reading a book about the TV show Seinfeld. It is interesting because it tells how a lot of the story lines got written. Many were from the cast and writer’s and their family, friends and acquaintances’ personal experiences.
One writer’s father invented the holiday Festivus in 1966 as a family tradition and to be celebrated as an alternate to other holidays, not just at Christmas. There were many rituals in the celebration, some of them were included in the show some were not. One that was not was the traditional hand-painted cardboard sign on the mantle that read, “FUCK FASCISM !”


Seinfeldia by Jennifer Armstrong

[Baltimike]

8. That's awesome. nt

[FakeNoose]

9. Love your scenario - I have something similar

Whenever I listen to people who start bitching about immigrants etc. I have a gentle way of dealing with them.

I don't get confrontational, but just as a conversation starter, I say you know my great-great grandparents came here about 150 years ago from Germany and Ireland. Just about everybody in the Midwest is half-German and half-Irish, so it's a common heritage that many of us share. I say that 150 years ago, the Germans and the Irish were looked down upon like the Mexicans and Central Americans are being treated today.

The "white people" of the day would never consider them friends or equals - the immigrants were indentured servants and day laborers. So they became friendly and neighborly with each other, and eventually many of them inter-married. Their children and grandchildren were born here, went to school, grew up and went to work, and became the next generation of citizens and taxpayers.

Who should say that those Germans and Irish immigrants, many of whom were desperate, poor, and escaping bad circumstances should not be allowed to enter our country? Of course they should come in, and our economy is based on regular growth and increases in population. The immigrants of today are coming from somewhere else, but they will become the citizens and taxpayers of tomorrow, and they'll make vital contributions to our culture and our economy.

[Baltimike]

10. Absolutely. "No Irish need apply" used to be included in job postings. nt

[oberliner]

11. It doesn't stand for that

That slur is not an acronym.

[progressoid]

12. Stop raining on the parade!

It's a cool story bro.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Are You Italian?

I am and do not consider that a slur. It may have been 75 years ago, but there was no lack of integration of italian culture into american culture and vice versa.

In addition, having a vowel at the end of one's name has not been an impediment to success since at least the late 1930's.

Notice that italians were not rounded up into camps in 1942? I thought so.

Italians have not been an oppressed ethnic group for decades and then some.

[oberliner]

14. No

I consider it a slur as well. I am just saying that it is not an acronym.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Reread What I Wrote

I buy that it may or may not be an acronym. I said i DON'T consider it a slur because italians are not an oppressed ethnic class.

Everyone on both sides of the family lived a totally comfortable existence without oppression, and we had family members born as far back as the 1920's.

[oberliner]

16. OK

But I am saying that I do consider it a slur. I've heard it used that way (i.e. to denigrate Italian-Americans).

[Baltimike]

19. Ok...

but I don't consider it a slur, and neither did my buddy, who has always professed it proudly, without even knowing what it means. So while you may have heard it "used that way", I have certainly heard it used as a term of endearment.

Do you think you get the right to substitute your judgement for mine? Or his?

The vanity plate on his boat says "Proud WOP" ffs, and, even though the acronym is TECHNICALLY incorrect, I promise you, a simple google search will certainly yield that it is COLLOQUIALLY true. Or, you know, just some average, everyday people.

But I will note your concern.

[pintobean]

17. I give it a 6

One false etymology or backronym of wop is that it is an acronym for "without passport" or "without papers", implying that Italian immigrants entered the U.S. as undocumented or illegal immigrants. The term has nothing to do with immigration documents, as these were not required by U.S. immigration officers until 1918, after the slur had already come into use in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop

[Baltimike]

20. And I'll give that a 2

This has been pointed out REPEATEDLY on this thread. Nevertheless, it is colloquially true.

The first google link: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wop

[pintobean]

22. "it is colloquially true"

I don't think that means what you think it means.

It's simply not true.
You tried to pass it off as fact.
It's obvious that you believed it when you posted the OP.

[Baltimike]

23. It is indeed.

and I provided you with a link just to let you know that I know what I'm talking about.

Hey!!! Did you know that the Hitler belonged to the National Socialist party? I did Nazi that coming.

Oh, and thanks for playin'

[Achilleaze]

18. #PutinsWall(R)

He put the republicans up to this stupid anti-American waste of money? So stupid it sure seems like it...

[Baltimike]

21. So stupid it seems spiteful, right? Like someone with an axe to grind

When the Berlin wall fell, we went back to us, and they went back to work.

We are under a coup right now