Freepers today respond to 20-year Ruby Ridge anniversary -- in a predictable manner

[LuckyTheDog]

A Freeper posted a link to this article: http://news.yahoo.com/20-years-ruby-ridge-theres-forgiveness-200635491.html

Here is the thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2920480/posts

Some responses:

Prayers for her and the family. A horrible thing to have gone through.
I notice that the article makes no mention of Bill Clinton's role in these government-sponsored murders, but continues to try to shift the blame to unidentified right-wing hate groups.

And wouldn't you know that they quote the Southern Poverty Law Center as their prime authority on that:

"Ruby Ridge was the opening shot of a new era of anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which keeps tabs on hate groups.

No, sorry, the SPLC is one of the worst hate groups on the planet.

Of course, Bill Clinton was not yet president when the incident happened... but little things like actual facts shuld never interfere with a RW meme, right?

>> “For the next nine days, the surviving Weavers holed up in the cabin while hundreds of federal agents laid siege in a standoff that helped spark an anti-government patriot movement that grew to include the Oklahoma City bombing.” <<

This is pure crap!

The bombing of the Murrah building was carried out by our own government, and hung on useful idiots that were conned into creating a diversion with their mostly ineffective truck bomb.

“anti-government hatred not seen since the Civil War,”

Most people in the South LIKED President Davis. What was that SPLC guy talking about?

The van had nothing to do with bringing the building down.

McVey was a nut case, and nothing he said would be worthy of consideration.

The debunkers are very much part of “cooling the mark.” (the “Mark” being the American public)

The goings-on in the basement of the Murrah building have been revealed in some detail by BATF operatives that were later discarded. The statements that were made by local officials on that morning BEFORE the blast were the most revealing.

[TlalocW]

1. When I was living in Oklahoma during the 1990s

One of our then-representatives, Don Nickel, who was maybe a shade smarter than Dan Quayle, made some sort of comment linking Ruby Ridge to Clinton. I wrote a wonderfully snarky letter to the editor to the Tulsa World talking about how incredibly powerful a man would have to be to exercise presidential powers when not the president or how stupid and/or cravenly political another man would have to be to make this kind of mix-up.

It got printed, and for whatever reason, about a week later, I got a "care package" from a white supremacy group (I did my high school senior research project on them but can't remember which one - it's the one mainly made up of fat bubbas who meet to shoot beer cans in the woods and are waiting for other groups to start the race war so they can ride on the coattails). Anyway, they sent some racist stickers and a copy of their newsletter - WAR (White Aryan Resistance) which was a Tom Metzger production (you might recognize his name as being big in White supremacy groups). They wrote nice little messages in the margins, "I bet you're anti-gun as well!" "You probably love Hillary Clinton." Etc. Quite the zingers. After the initial shock wore off, and I had stopped laughing, I was disappointed to see that they didn't have a return address on the envelope they sent everything in. I was going to send them a gift basket of different types of Mexican salsa for Xmas.

TlalocW

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

40. If I had a dime for every time I heard a rightwinger blame it on Clinton, I'd be a rich man

They were so used to regurgitating "Waco and Ruby Ridge" as a talking point, that these dumbasses never bothered to check the dates or actually read about Ruby Ridge.
Otherwise, they'd have known it happened under Poppy Bush.
But we're dealing with idiots who actually believe the Clintons killed Vince Foster and that Obama is a secret Kenyan muslim, so it's no surprise they don't bother with pesky things like facts.

[Hoyt]

2. I've never understood people who view Weaver and such as martyrs

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. While they are not martyrs, there was also government misconduct and a large settlement

Ruby Ridge like Waco and even the Eula Love shooting in Los Angeles are used as text book cases of what not to do today.

Not clear if you read the article or not...its posted lots of places other than Freeperville and is worth reading.

[Hoyt]

6. Both Weaver and Koresh had plenty of times to give themselves up.

Instead they chose to hide behind others.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. You might want to read up on Ruby Ridge before you go off half cocked (again)

The Wikipedia article is a fairly neutral discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

As I said, today it is considered one of the textbook cases of how not to do things in law enforcement.

The Weavers are far from saints but due process is due all of us

[Hoyt]

10. I've read plenty on Weaver, he was a racist, gun nut, illegal trafficker and should have surrendered

Instead your gun cultist martyr hid behind his family to keep from giving up to federal marshals. Fact is, if he were not a racist, gun nut, member of Ayran Nation, trafficked illegal guns to help them carry out their hatred, etc., he would not have been bothered.

[Tom Ripley]

11. Absolutely! The death of his wife and child rests solely on that cowardly asshole's head

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. That's nice, but the topic is Ruby Ridge

And not even law enforcement was willing to ignore their own missteps there. It was a law enforcement disaster and is taught as such today.It wasn't just the $3M+ settlement, as the SPLC has said, it was one of several events that refueled some of the more extreme right wing groups.

I have not/will not defend Weaver in the least. He is neither martyr nor hero to me. To claim so is yet another unprincipled cheap shot and is a new low in sleaziness from you.

[Hoyt]

13. Look, some of you gun guys will shoot an unarmed teen over property,

Last edited Mon Aug 20, 2012, 09:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Yet this despicable man who sold illegal weapons to racist, worthless souls, gets a pity party even though he had ample time (days, weeks) to surrender to law enforcers who gave him every opportunity to lay down his guns and walk out of his racist compound.

Instead, he hid behind his family, sent his armed son and friend out after agents and one of them killed an agent, still refused to lay down his weapons, and worse. Then right wing racists -- and apparently a few other misguided souls -- made this racist, anti-government/society, inbred coward some kind of martyr. I've got more, but what's the use.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Stop with the insulting bullshit...

The topic was Ruby Ridge, not Weaver.

No one here has has said anything supportive of Weaver despite your lies and innuendo.

You seem to ignore the real impact of Ruby Ridge was to re energize right wing extremist groups.

Fortunately some of us, including the SPLC are smarter than you and tell the truth, something you have no familiarity with.

It is interesting to note that both you and Weaver have things in common, including no longer having the right to own firearms

[Hoyt]

15. I'm sure ruby ridge is a beautiful shrine, but we are talking weaver.

What makes you think topic is ruby ridge and not the worthless weaver? Without weaver, ruby ridge would just be another place a lot of racist gun nuts aspire to.

[apocalypsehow]

16. Very telling that it's one of our "pro-gun progressives" that has rushed to defend

white supremacist Randy Weaver, and his armed defiance of the federal government. Birds of a feather, all of that.

Jeesuz, I've been gone for a few weeks on vacation and this is literally the first thread I stumble onto at DU. I see little has changed.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. And you remain as clueless as ever

The cited OP was about Ruby Ridge and its impacts.

Two major things came out of Ruby Ridge & Waco...law enforcement learned from their mistakes and some extremist right wing groups got re energized. The SPLC supports this conclusion as well.

The issue has never been Weaver. You are as much a liar as Hoyt when you claim that I or anyone here has defended Weaver in the slightest.

[apocalypsehow]

63. The issues is and was Weaver - and instead of simply apologizing for leaping

to his defense in your reply above, you simply double-down. You made the subject Weaver by defending him, and when called on it, instead of doing the right thing and editing your post, you simply double-down. Typical.

[Zalatix]

23. The judge and jury found him not guilty of everything except failure to appear.

He was found not guilty by reason of self-defense for the shootout and not guilty on all other charges. Does that not matter at all here?

[Tom Ripley]

19. +1,000,000

"Without weaver, ruby ridge would just be another place a lot of racist gun nuts aspire to"

[Zalatix]

22. There is NEVER an excuse to shoot someone's unarmed spouse

while she is holding a BABY in her arms.

No excuse. None. Not ever. No. Nay. Nein. Nyet.

[Hoyt]

24. That's exactly how I feel about people aiding racists - no excuse..

If the frigging racist, gun loving Fuxker hadn't used his family in his hatred and murdered at least one agent, he'd be out of jail and drinking beer with his racist son, wife, and despicable friends .

[Union Scribe]

27. I think you accidentally wandered out of the "gungeon" nt

[Zalatix]

33. So his unarmed WIFE deserved to be summarily executed for that?

[Union Scribe]

25. +1

I don't know why people are so damn scared to condemn law enforcement brutality just because it happened to some right wingers. Like it'll hurt their cred or something.

[Hoyt]

29. Would you be happier with law enforcement coddling the weavers of the world

[Union Scribe]

38. I'd be happier if police didn't murder people, regardless of their politics.

But I'm talking to someone who who has claimed he can tell legitimate Democrats by appearance, so I'm not expecting that to make sense to you.

[Zalatix]

44. "I'd be happier if police didn't murder people, regardless of their politics." +1000!

[Hoyt]

54. I'd be happier if gun cultists weren't always supporting racists like weaver.

I get it on free republic, not here so much.

[Zalatix]

55. There is no support for Weaver here.

The problem here is psycho cops who summarily execute unarmed women with kids in their arms. They deserve far more scorn and protest than Randy Weaver, who went into this with no criminal record and who was only convicted in the aftermath of a failure to appear for a court date.

Cops who kill unarmed women with babies in their arms = more evil than Randy Weaver.

You want to speak about gun cultists? The police thugs are the worst of them.

[Zalatix]

35. +1,000,000... those law enforcement thugs can just as easily turn on anyone.

I fear both sides - Weaver and the thugs who summarily executed his wife.

The latter has more guns. That makes their psycho episodes far more dangerous.

[Hoyt]

43. I think the weaver types have plenty of guns, hate good people and are callous enough to shoot them.

Don't think that's good for society.

Rather have law enforcers answerable to elected officials, than we'll armed right wingers and bigots.

[Zalatix]

47. So Randy was a d-bag. That doesn't justify summary executions.

The police who shot his unarmed wife were stone cold murderers. They did more damage than Weaver ever did.

[Hoyt]

50. The weavers shot a marshal FIRST. He had plenty of opportunity to surrender.

Law enforcement practically begged him to surrender.

[Zalatix]

52. So how does this justify the summary execution of his unarmed WIFE?

No one seems to have an answer for that.

Since when is it ever okay to shoot an unarmed person holding a baby in their arms? Who's she about to kill?

Oh yeah, I forgot, I can't get an answer out of anyone about the use of drones to kill unarmed terrorist suspects and the innocent bystanders caught in their vicinity.

Cold blooded murder is okay as long as law enforcement does it...

[Hoyt]

53. OK, in your view selling guns to help racists intimidate is OK as long as a gun

lover involved.

[Zalatix]

56. How does this justify summarily executing his UNARMED WIFE?

You're dancing around the question.

[Lizzie Poppet]

62. Wrong.

The first shots were fired by the Marshal who was killed (shooting teh Weavers' dog). The first human actually shot and killed was Samuel Weaver.

Don't spout off if you haven't a clue about the facts of the case.

[Tom Ripley]

28. Even when that unarmed spouse convinced their nitwit husband that being a racist gun nut felon...

is a holy and principled position?
It was originally that crazy wench's "cause"

[Zalatix]

31. So? That doesn't mean she deserves a SUMMARY EXECUTION.

Please tell me which crime that Randy Weaver was actually convicted of when they took him in.

If federal agents came stormtroopering my non-white liberal household like they did him, I wouldn't want MY wife to be summarily executed like that.

[Tom Ripley]

34. Do you feel the same way about MOVE in 1985?

[Zalatix]

36. Absolutely, wholeheartedly YES x 100,000,000,000.

[Tom Ripley]

61. Fair enough (n/t)

[JVS]

32. What if the spouse and baby are racists?

[Zalatix]

39. What if the baby is a racist? Really?

So now we're down to advocating summary executions for ignorant racists, and worse, accusing BABIES of being racists?

[img]?1316330080[/img]

[JVS]

49. I really didn't think that I needed to use the sarcasm tag.

[Zalatix]

51. Blah. You got me. My faith in humanity is restored!!!

[brewens]

46. Remember Bo Gritz giving a Nazi salute to a group of Weavers skinhead supporters? n/t

[bluestateguy]

3. I had totally forgotten about Ruby Ridge

And I prefer to keep it that way.

[LeftinOH]

5. Bill Clinton had a hand in this? Three months prior to being elected?

Dumb Freepers.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

7. 9/11 happened on his watch too

....but bin Laden was killed by Bush.

Freeper history.

[Tom Ripley]

9. "Yahweh or the highway!" It's not as if violent crazyass religous nuts are an endangered species

I like to think of it as culling the herd

[B Calm]

20. Bill Clinton wasn't president, stupid right wing

useful idiots!

[Codeine]

21. Huh. I guess the Freepadeeps have their own Troofers. nt

[former-republican]

26. Ruby Ridge was

State sponsored murder

[Tom Ripley]

30. Do you feel the same way about MOVE in 1985?

[former-republican]

37. That was the bombing in philly correct?

If that's what you're asking me about , yes

I also feel the same way when we kill civilians over seas in the name of war.
I don't give a pass to the previous administration or the current one.

[Tom Ripley]

60. Fair enough (n/t)

[UnrepentantLiberal]

41. Funny that isn't on their radar...

[Tom Ripley]

45. Isn't it?

[petronius]

48. I see you've asked that twice here - will you answer a similar question?

Do you have the same sentiments when it comes to MOVE, Ruby Ridge, and any other situation where police excess, incompetence or aggression led to avoidable deaths?

[Tom Ripley]

58. Yes, but I find it telling that the Ruby Ridge cultists never express concern about Fred Hampton...

MOVE, etc...

[Zalatix]

57. I actually posted about that on here once or twice before

as a case in point that police forces in America HAVE engaged in summary executions of Americans in days past.

The largest gun nut culture in America is our law enforcement system.

[brewens]

42. I live in idaho, maybe 150 miles south of where "The Weaver Standoff" was.

The way I remember it, we didn't hear a lot of squawking about that from Republicans in Congress until after clinton was elected. They didn't want to hurt H.W. Bush's chances of being re-elected.

Then it seemed like the talking points went out and everyone referred to it as "Ruby Ridge". No longer "The Weaver Standoff". I suppose that had a better ring and made it sound more like a civil war battle or something.

I suppose I'm against the kind of thing that went on there. They shouldn't have set him up, but he shouldn't have hid behind women and children.