'Do not expect to see special counsel Robert Mueller make any attempt to flip Stone.'

[RandySF]

Unfortunately for Stone, and what makes fighting this case futile, is that the government will not need to rely on the credibility of any individuals to make its case. The email and text evidence laid out in excruciating detail in the indictment is not open to interpretation. Just one example: On the very day that Stone testified that he had never sent or received emails or text messages from Credico, the two men had exchanged more than 30 text messages. Good luck spinning that.

And if that were not enough—and believe me, it is—the case will be tried in D.C. There is a facile critique that liberals are soft on crime. That can be true where the defendants are perceived to be from a disadvantaged minority. But have pity on an arrogant, white-collar defendant who is in cahoots with a despised Republican president; you will witness righteous fury. The venire in D.C. reviles Trump, and they will find Stone loathsome. The only contentiousness will be during jury selection, as the potential jurors all fight to be chosen so they can “do justice.”

Finally, do not expect to see Special Counsel Robert Mueller make any attempt to flip Stone and have him cooperate. A defendant like Stone is far more trouble than he is worth to a prosecutor. Stone is too untrustworthy for a prosecutor to ever rely upon. He has told so many documented lies, and bragged so often about his dirty tricks, that he simply has too much baggage to deal with even if here to want to cooperate—which seems unlikely in any event. Mueller, I suspect, would not even be willing to engage in a preliminary debrief with Stone to just test the possibility of cooperation out of concern that Stone would immediately go on television with his pals at Fox News to decry Mueller’s Gestapo tactics.

In short, Mueller does not need Stone to get to someone else and, even if he did, he could not rely on whatever Stone told him. Stone has nothing to sell that Mueller would be interested in buying.




https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-escape-for-roger-stone-muellers-case-is-a-slam-dunk-and-hes-too-slimy-to-get-flipped

[pecosbob]

1. I learned a new word today...at sixty that doesn't happen very often

'venire'

[BumRushDaShow]

2. Same here

although having taken French in high school and college I know "venir" is the French verb for "to come" so obviously both from the Latin for a similar/related "action", and in this case applied to the courts.

[llmart]

4. I took two years of Latin in high school.

You'd think I would have seen the connection, as in "vini, vidi, vici". Venire is one of the first words you learn along with amo, amas, amat, but that was very long ago (high school).

Latin has served me well over my lifetime. I think it should still be taught in high school. So many words are derived from the Latin and it has helped me throughout my life.

[BumRushDaShow]

5. My high school motto was

Vincit Qui Se Vincit.

I know my mom (who also graduated from the same high school back in the '40s) used to talk about the Latin requirement. They pretty much eliminated that by the time I came through. Definitely agree how the knowledge of the Latin root words would be helpful although language changes so much that many words aren't even used anymore. However anyone who is involved in law and the courts definitely needs to know it because the legal lingo still actively uses Latin terms.

[llmart]

6. I remember being told back then that it would be very useful in a medical or legal career.

I've worked in a law library and a law office at one time or another in my life. But I also found that it's amazingly helpful with botanical names and classifications.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. I was a science major in college

and was told that German was supposedly the language to take... However by the time I came through, that was no longer needed either.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

45. English is now the language of science around the world.

I understand that graduate school in some science fields is pretty much completely taught in English in other countries. Such as you can get a PhD in physics in Hungary. In English. Pretty astonishing.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. Yup

Took awhile but English became the official "international language" (before that it was French).

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

52. I do know that German was the language of science for quite a while.

I am glad for the sake of My Son the Astronomer that the foreign language requirement for a degree has gone away. He just barely made it through the three years of French he took -- the high school he attended required three years of the same foreign language. I was able to send him to Montreal for two weeks for French immersion, the summer before his third year. I believe he got a C for the year, and probably only did that well because the teacher took pity on him. She did tell me very pointedly at the end of the year that she was NOT recommending him for fourth year French.

He's currently in a PhD program in astronomy, and in March will be going to Switzerland for a conference in his field, which is exo-planets. I think he's going to be pleasantly surprised at how his lack of other languages won't be much of a problem for him.

[BumRushDaShow]

53. Nowadays the smart phones have translator apps.

(including voice). We have slowly moved into the Star Trek universe.

I actually bought a Korean ddkukbaegi earthenware pot last week and was able to translate the Korean writing on the packaging with the Google translate app using my phone's camera.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

54. How good are those apps?

I don't happen to have a smart phone, so just curious.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. It's not perfect in terms of

"whatever" language --> English but it gave me a pretty good idea of what the text was saying. Today was the first time I used it so I haven't tried it on other languages yet. I have used Google translate on the web though.

[lunatica]

68. If you get a smart phone or iphone

You will step into Star Wars technology with only a few things missing, like the food replicator and the holodeck. But give it time!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

70. Well!

Without the food replicator, why bother??

[TNNurse]

21. I watched my nursing school classmates struggle with terminology.

It was my second college degree but I believe it was the high school Latin classes that made it easier for me.

[empedocles]

28. I found it useful in my legal career, and also in my reading journeys.

[dhol82]

30. Way to go Girl's High!

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Yuppers!

[3Hotdogs]

10. That ain't nuthin'.

Schools no longer teach cursive writing.

My grand kids can't read hand written text.

[Progressive Jones]

39. They teach cursive at my daughter's school. At 10 she has beautiful handwriting. nt

[klook]

15. Agreed, and Agricola is still my favorite soft drink!

[PCIntern]

18. To wit:

Coca Cola. Nominative
Cocae Colae. Genitive
Coca Cola. Dative
Cocam Colam. Accusative
Coca Cola. Ablative


And that’s only the First Declension!!!

[hatrack]

26. "'People called Stone they go the prison'?"

"It says 'Stone, go to prison!'"

"No it doesn't!"

[volstork]

40. Four years of high school Latin

for me allowed me to place out of my undergrad language requirement with a two-hour test. I sailed through anatomy due to my Latin background; it is one of the most valuable classes I ever took, from one of the most feared (before she taught you) and most amazing teachers I ever had. I drafted a thank-you letter to her when I finished anatomy, but never sent it. Just a few months later, she was killed in a horrific accident; THAT taught me never to put off expressing thanks or love to others.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

46. I joke that I didn't formally study Latin, but

I did grow up Catholic during the days of the Latin mass.

[kimbutgar]

57. I regret not taking it in high school

My sister took the class and I still have her textbook. Now you can't find a Latin class even in junior college.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. The "Rosetta Stone" language program still offers it

and looking at their website, they apparently have apps of their language programs for phones & tablets too.

[kimbutgar]

61. Thanks I'll look into it

I was working on learning Itailan and wished I knew Latin.

[llmart]

3. Yeah, me too, and I'm pretty good with words.

[Timmygoat]

7. My French and Latin are very rusty

But I have to say, every time I see a video of Roger Stone prancing around in his funny glasses with his shoulder bag etc, one word comers to mind -PIMP, does anyone else have that feeling?

[47of74]

14. Yeah he thinks he's such hot shit.

And yeah pimp probably is an accurate description l.

[LuvNewcastle]

20. His taste in clothes reminds me of The Joker.

And he's just about as sinister, too.

[Butterflylady]

22. With those ugly black glasses, he looks like

The joker.

[whopis01]

37. More Penguin like to me

[volstork]

41. Someone posted that pic of stone

on Friday, and I thought it was a photoshop. Had no idea the dude was so weird, but should have guessed as much...

[BumRushDaShow]

59. Steve Martin was on SNL over the weekend and did his best Stone imitation!

(at 4:40)

[volstork]

60. I saw that!

Took me a moment to figure out who it was, but Steve Martin's hand gestures give him away!

[BumRushDaShow]

62. Hee hee

Yup - he reflexively broke into his "Wild and Crazy Guy" thing!

[Danascot]

63. I had no idea either

Until I read he has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. Now that is freakin' weird. Who does that!?

[whopis01]

69. I thought it was photoshop at first as well. But no.

He is just that weird.

[yardwork]

13. Same here! And I'm delighted.

[triron]

64. In Spanish, venir mean 'to come'.

[wishstar]

8. Reviewing his confiscated material will be much more fruitful use of SC time and effort

fortunately there will be no delay in reviewing Stone's records since no executive or client privilege is involved and Stone wasn't even formally on the Trump's campaign staff during 2016.

[Squinch]

11. All this is true, but whether Mueller wants to or not, I do predict Stone will be begging to deal

before too long.

[hlthe2b]

12. Of coursse not.. Why would any prosecutor ever want to put such an established liar on the stand...

even if he did have the goods on others. It would be totally self-defeating. That, for Stone, means no deals.

[Ilsa]

16. A part of me wonders if Stone's arrest was a dare

to mf45. Like a dare to pardon him.

[marble falls]

17. Mueller needs one unsympathetic jerk to kick the snot out of to set the tone when ...

he starts softening up Don Jr.

[Vinnie From Indy]

19. This is probably true

Mueller's team will meet with Stone and his attorney and tell them that they do not need him to flip on anyone and they have more than enough evidence to send Roger away for many, many years.

The only thing that the Mueller team would want from Stone is a confession and a guilty plea.

[LawnKorn]

23. Even without cooperation, Roger Stone can serve a good purpose.

Stone can be made an example. He can have a very public trial and receive the maximum sentence.

Lock him up!

[empedocles]

29. Expedited trial for Stone would be great, [if it didn't interfere with Mueller, et al].

[MarianJack]

24. Ah, the moment when...

...being a serial lying sack of shit for 40+ years comes back to bite Roger Stone in his crusty and wrinkled old ass.

RESIST!

[mnmoderatedem]

25. I gotta hand it to trump and his cronies.

they tend to make Mueller's job so much easier than it should be.

They put all this stuff in text and emails that can be easily obtained and used against them.

And trump even puts it on twitter.

These people are absolute morons.

[Buckeyeblue]

27. Unless Stone would go before Congress and testify against 45

There can be no deal. And he would have to be on prime time. And he would have to tell everything he knows.

And then he could be discarded like the old whore that he is.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. I'm happy if Stone gets to spend the rest of his life in prison.

If they have texts and messages they don’t need his own testimony.

Rot, Roger.

[kentuck]

32. I think this might be a continuation of the Mueller narrative?

This is his report.

With each indictment, he is telling more of the story.

In the Stone indictment, he did not charge Stone with any conspiracy or collusion to commit a criminal act. That was noteworthy.

[Scurrilous]

34. K&R

[FakeNoose]

35. Hey this is good news! Mueller has enough on Stone to put him away for good and all

I don't want to see this guy flip, because I wouldn't believe anything he said anyway.
Not a credible witness for any reason. Lock him up and throw away the key.

[Honeycombe8]

43. All flippers are lying criminals.

Their testimony helps the prosecution, though, when it supports other evidence of what the flipper says, OR the flipper can fill in some blanks and answer some key questions.

They wouldn't rely absolutely on what a flipper said (like when Manafort lied...then Manafort had the add'l charge of lying to the special counsel added to his charges; they have ways of confirming whether what hte flipper says is true).

[Greywing]

36. Personally I'd be happy if flipping were over ...

I'm ready to see these arrogant players face justice for whatever crimes they have committed.

[certainot]

38. venue is very important!

most other locations you've got a2 in 10 chance of getting a dittohead living with a different set of facts, resulting in a lot of hung juries - like trying to get a jury for a cop who shot an unarmed black kid after limbaugh spent 2 years talking about how the cop is being set up

[Honeycombe8]

42. I think Mueller would.

It's the logical thing to do. For one thing, it saves time and money. And helps in getting to a higher person. It buttresses the other evidence.

He won't wait for Stone to flip, but it makes sense that Mueller would mention that he can get some time shaved off, IF....(whatever). If Stone says no, then Mueller proceeds. But he'll at least ask, even if he knows what the answer is.

[BigmanPigman]

44. After hearing a zillion pundits I finally agree with a prediction...

I forget who said it but the guy said that Stone won't flip. He loves the attention and spotlight. He will go to jail for a few years then get out and make even more money like Liddy did after he got out of jail after Watergate.

[Cha]

47. Good to know.. excellent OP.. Thank You, RSF!

[cstanleytech]

48. Oh, I am willing to bet Mueller would be willing to deal if Stone had something major on Mitch for

example but the odds of Stone actually having something Mueller would want is slim.

[Pepsidog]

49. Smart analysis. These traitors should be afraid of justice. Just look at sentencing judge in the

Flynn case. He was outraged at Flynn’s conduct and he was supposedly a righty judge. I think many judges have been watching in horror the attack on the judiciar, the press, and the rule of law and would love to despense some justice. Unlike right-wing Fox loving lawmakers, most people are not living in the bizzare Fox and Friends bubble. Stone is going to learn there is a huge price to pay for undermining the Republc we all love and hold dear. And like Judge Sullivan will be extremely harsh on those who are found guilty.

[bearssoapbox]

51. Can't they just put Stone in my a cell and let him stew?

And, if they do let him out, go to him once or twice a week and ask couple of questions then they say 'Thank you Mr. Stone, we'll be back.'
Give him something to think about while he reads about how the investigation is going.

[NastyRiffraff]

56. "Roger Stone does not rule out cooperating with Mueller"

From CNN:

Washington (CNN)Roger Stone said Sunday he would tell the truth about his communications with President Donald Trump and did not shut the door on the possibility of cooperation with special counsel Robert Mueller.

Asked on ABC's "This Week" about the chances he would cooperate with Mueller, Stone said his attorneys would need to discuss the subject but contended he would testify honestly about any wrongdoing that may have occurred.
"If there's wrongdoing by other people in the campaign that I know about -- which I know of none -- but, if there is, I would certainly testify honestly," Stone said. "I would also testify honestly about any other matter, including any communications with the President. It's true that we spoke on the phone, but those communications are political in nature."

Soon he'll be begging Mueller for a deal. "I'll do anything...anything!"

[efhmc]

65. No stage for Stone, just jail.

nt

[Control-Z]

66. Has anyone ever said, "I want to grow up to be

a dirty trickster"?

There was a time in the recent past that my answer would have been no.

[TomSlick]

67. Old lawyers like me love our "Law Latin."

Mind you, most lawyers butcher the pronunciations. (The usual pronunciation of Pro hac vice. sends me up the wall.) I have learned that I must provide an English interpretation when I reference a Latin term. Otherwise, the young guys would have no idea what I was saying.

The venire is the group of people summoned to appear for jury duty. It comes from Venire Facias, the common law writ directing the sheriff to summon a sufficient number of people to form a jury.

[DeminPennswoods]

71. The SCO seems to hold Manafort and Stone in

particular contempt. They pretty much threw the book at Manafort even going so far as to tell Judge Jackson Manafort should get 0 credit even for all the information he gave them that wasn't a lie.

I agree that Stone will get no quarter from them.