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malaise

(268,967 posts)
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:37 PM Feb 2019

Venezuela hass done nothing - not one fucking thing to be seized by the

US government - stop this fucking madness.

This is about oil and has been going on for as long as Chavez was demanding more for their oil and sharing benefits with fellow Caribbean countries. The sabotage has been relentless. Wake up world.

I do not want to hear one fucking word about human rights, not with those Latin American children in your cages and the authoritarian in the WH. Stop this madness. The Con does not decide who is President of Venezuela. We are sovereign countries.

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Venezuela hass done nothing - not one fucking thing to be seized by the (Original Post) malaise Feb 2019 OP
You tell 'em, malaise world wide wally Feb 2019 #1
Isn't ALL the oil our oil? democratisphere Feb 2019 #2
But the US has been mixing it up in Venezuela for a long time ... marble falls Feb 2019 #3
Donald Trump is not running the European Union jberryhill Feb 2019 #4
Oh yes, Chavez and Maduro, the heroes of the people.... Adrahil Feb 2019 #5
Bad Actors including Juan Guaido and Popular Will. MarcA Feb 2019 #10
Trump is running Jamaica now? jberryhill Feb 2019 #6
Nonsense, Venz. is not being "seized" by the US, but by Venezuelans. EX500rider Feb 2019 #7
"This is about oil and has been going on for as long as Chavez was demanding more for their oil" EX500rider Feb 2019 #8
Bolton literally said that it was about oil on television. nt. liberalnarb Feb 2019 #32
They want it privatized. Eom liberalnarb Feb 2019 #34
Has the US sarisataka Feb 2019 #9
It hasn't been the orange shitgibbon alone MyNameGoesHere Feb 2019 #11
Ding ding malaise Feb 2019 #12
So the side of right is N Korea, Iran, Russia, Cuba & China? If you say so...lol EX500rider Feb 2019 #14
I didn't say so and you should react your bullshit reply. MyNameGoesHere Feb 2019 #19
Post removed Post removed Feb 2019 #20
+1 2naSalit Feb 2019 #29
I guess some Maduro apologists are intent on going down with the ship... tritsofme Feb 2019 #13
Possibly I am a sovereign nation apologist MyNameGoesHere Feb 2019 #24
When you are standing with Russia and Iran...against the EU and Canada tritsofme Feb 2019 #25
K&R Jeffersons Ghost Feb 2019 #15
Maduro is better than the alternative ZeroSomeBrains Feb 2019 #16
"Maduro is better than the alternative" EX500rider Feb 2019 #21
Venezuela has a lot of problems ZeroSomeBrains Feb 2019 #23
The US didn't sanction Venezuela until last week Recursion Feb 2019 #33
Don't bother. Another one of those who blithely opine on COLGATE4 Feb 2019 #36
I agree....stop the madness. Captain Stern Feb 2019 #17
another "Oil" war brewing Demonaut Feb 2019 #18
We're seizing Venezuela? Are we making it a state? Are we trying to get Puerto Rico jealous? UniteFightBack Feb 2019 #22
They made one mistake. WhiteTara Feb 2019 #26
Bolton's fingerprints on this for sure flamingdem Feb 2019 #31
Totally agree. lark Feb 2019 #27
Trump the Conqueror thinks to the victor procon Feb 2019 #28
"..seized by the US government." Did I miss that? AncientGeezer Feb 2019 #30
Read The Shock Doctrine and you'll know what's coming. liberalnarb Feb 2019 #35
OK, so what explains the Disaster Socialism we've been seeing there for years? (nt) Recursion Feb 2019 #37
Correct. the gop, especially the bushes, didn't like that venezuela nationalized oil wiggs Feb 2019 #38
Way back in 1953? That's a long time to hold a grudge (nt) Recursion Feb 2019 #40
Post removed Post removed Feb 2019 #39

marble falls

(57,080 posts)
3. But the US has been mixing it up in Venezuela for a long time ...
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:52 PM
Feb 2019

Attack on Richard Nixon's motorcade
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Richard_Nixon's_motorcade

?w=686&h=540

Nixon's car is attacked in Caracas
Date May 13, 1958
Location Caracas, Venezuela



An attack on Richard Nixon's motorcade occurred in Caracas, Venezuela, during his 1958 goodwill tour of South America, undertaken while Nixon was Vice President of the United States. The attack on Nixon's car was called, at the time, the "most violent attack ever perpetrated on a high American official while on foreign soil". Close to being killed while a couple of his aides were injured in the melee, Nixon ended up unharmed and his entourage managed to reach the U.S. embassy. The visit took place only months after the overthrow of Venezuelan dictator Marcos Pérez Jiménez, which was awarded the Legion of Merit and later granted asylum by the United States, and the incident may have been orchestrated by the Communist Party of Venezuela. U.S. Navy Admiral Arleigh Burke mobilized fleet and Marine units to the region, compelling the Venezuelan government to provide full protection to Nixon for the remainder of the trip.

The attack was denounced by all major Venezuelan presidential candidates standing in that year's election, except for the incumbent leader Admiral Wolfgang Larrazábal. Nixon was generally applauded in American press reports for his calm and adept handling of the incident and was feted with a "hero's welcome" on his return to the United States. His recollections of the attack form one of the "six crises" in his eponymous book. The attack has been credited with awakening U.S. officials to a growing tide of anti-Americanism in the western hemisphere, but of also deeply affecting Nixon on a personal level, shaping his perception of Latin America as a region prone to "violence and irrationality".
Contents


Context

Richard Nixon's carefully planned 1958 tour of South America has been described as one of the "most important United States foreign policy events in post-WWII Latin America".[2] It was undertaken at a time of confused United States intra-hemispheric relations; the role of Latin American states in the emerging American grand strategy of containment was unclear and ill-defined. However, a recent worldwide drop in commodity prices that badly affected South American economies, coupled with increasing Soviet overtures in the western hemisphere, made President of the United States Dwight Eisenhower determine that a tour by a major United States functionary was necessary to demonstrate U.S. commitment to the region.[2] Nixon, himself, says he was uninterested in taking the trip.[3]

The tour was to see Nixon visit every independent country in South America except Brazil and Chile.[a] Brazil had been omitted from the itinerary as Nixon had visited that nation the previous year. The Chilean leadership, meanwhile, were scheduled to be out-of-the-country during the time period of Nixon's visit. Nixon was accompanied on his trip by his wife, Pat Nixon.[3]


<snip>

Upon learning of the incident, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Arleigh Burke ordered the airlift of elements of the 2nd Marine Division and the 101st Airborne Division to staging areas in Puerto Rico and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. The aircraft carrier USS Tarawa, along with eight destroyers and two amphibious assault ships, were ordered to put to sea towards Venezuela.[21][24] The U.S. mobilization was code-named "Operation Poor Richard".[7]
A fleet of 12 ships centered on USS Tarawa, pictured here in 1952, was ordered to Venezuela once news of the attack on Nixon reached Washington.

According to U.S. officials at the time, the forces mobilized were being readied to enter Venezuela to "cooperate with the Venezuelan government", though later accounts suggest President Eisenhower was preparing to "invade Venezuela" should Nixon suffer further indignity.[18][21][24] Privately, Eisenhower was reportedly furious at the attack on Nixon and, at one point, told his staff "I am about ready to go put my uniform on".[25][26]

Nixon was shocked after learning about the mobilization and wondered why they were not consulted, but later found out that communications between Caracas and Washington had been cut for a critical period immediately after the riot that afternoon.[3]

In response to the movement of American military forces into the region, Admiral Larrazábal pledged the Nixon party would be "protected fully" thereafter.[27]

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
4. Donald Trump is not running the European Union
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:52 PM
Feb 2019

Or do you also blame Trump for the EU's non-recognition of Maduro's legitimacy?

Do you think Trump is running the Organization of American States as well?

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
5. Oh yes, Chavez and Maduro, the heroes of the people....
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:56 PM
Feb 2019

pull the other one.

BTW, I think the interest by certain parties in oil is separate from the monumental clusterfuck that has been the Bolivarian Revolution.

Plenty of bad actors here.

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
10. Bad Actors including Juan Guaido and Popular Will.
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 05:37 PM
Feb 2019

Their history and connections with others in the guarimbas actions for example.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
6. Trump is running Jamaica now?
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:58 PM
Feb 2019

This is a multi-lateral non-recognition of Maduro's claimed legitimacy in concert with the relevant EU and OAS bodies:

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/lead-stories/20190111/no-support-maduro-kingston-caracas-rift-deepens-jamaica-backs-oas

Jamaica backs OAS resolution not to recognise Venezuela’s president

Jamaica yesterday sided with 18 other members of the Organization of American States (OAS) in favour of a resolution not to recognise the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro's new term as Venezuela's president.

.....

Countries that voted at the OAS were Argentina, The Bahamas, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, St Lucia, and the USA.


Do you similarly condemn the decision of the government of Jamaica in this matter?

We are sovereign countries.

Malaise, could you clarify to whom you mean to refer as "we" in that sentence? Most of the sovereign countries in the Americas agree on this one.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
7. Nonsense, Venz. is not being "seized" by the US, but by Venezuelans.
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 05:09 PM
Feb 2019

Venezuela is in the grip of a worsening humanitarian crisis caused by their current illegitimate regime.

Mr Guaidó is head of Venezuela's National Assembly and the constitution allows him to assume power temporarily when the president is deemed illegitimate.
He has secured the backing of over 40 countries, including the US and most Latin American and European nations. Mr Maduro still has the support of China and Russia. (and N Korea and Iran!)

So you think Iran, N Korea, China and Russia are defenders of Democracy? lol

Even China is bailing:

China made it clear this week that it was not taking sides in Venezuela and would cooperate with whoever was in charge. This comes less than two weeks after Venezuelan opposition politician (the elected head of the National Assembly in what was considered a fair vote) Juan Guaido claimed he was the legal Venezuelan leader because recently reelected president Maduro had won in what was widely considered (by locals and foreign observers) a rigged and illegal election. Most Western Hemisphere nations and many European ones backed Guaido (as did most Venezuelans). The United States and EU nations are assisting Guaido in taking control of billions of dollars in cash and other assets belonging to Venezuela that are located in the U.S. and Europe. On the basis of all this Guaido made it clear that he will respect current economic deals and is willing to work with Russia and China, currently Venezuela’s largest creditors. Maduro has the active support of Cuba, North Korea, Iran and perhaps Russia.


https://strategypage.com/qnd/china/articles/20190206.aspx

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
8. "This is about oil and has been going on for as long as Chavez was demanding more for their oil"
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 05:13 PM
Feb 2019

Again, nonsense, the US already gets the majority of Venezuelan oil and oil prices are set by world demand, not Maduro.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
11. It hasn't been the orange shitgibbon alone
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 06:09 PM
Feb 2019

we have a lot of neo-cons real close to home that have supported a regime change. Everytime I see one of them post I just want to fucking scream.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
14. So the side of right is N Korea, Iran, Russia, Cuba & China? If you say so...lol
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 06:31 PM
Feb 2019

I'll stick to the other 40 countries, including the US and most Latin American and European nations.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
19. I didn't say so and you should react your bullshit reply.
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 07:41 PM
Feb 2019

You don't get a free ride of just throwing bullshit out there and saying I said it.

Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #19)

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
24. Possibly I am a sovereign nation apologist
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 10:03 PM
Feb 2019

And know the orange shitgibbon has no right to stick his little mushroom pecker into another countries business. I won't be a tRump apologist either.

tritsofme

(17,377 posts)
25. When you are standing with Russia and Iran...against the EU and Canada
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 12:49 PM
Feb 2019

Among others

Maybe...just maybe...that calls for some self reflection on one’s position?

ZeroSomeBrains

(638 posts)
16. Maduro is better than the alternative
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 06:40 PM
Feb 2019

The Venezuelan government has made a lot of mistakes but I can't support a coup to put a Bolsonaro ally as head of their government.

EX500rider

(10,842 posts)
21. "Maduro is better than the alternative"
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 08:16 PM
Feb 2019

So a starving populace with scarce food and medicine with a dictator for life and the world's highest inflation is somehow better for the Venezuelans? All the ones I know disagree.

ZeroSomeBrains

(638 posts)
23. Venezuela has a lot of problems
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 08:37 PM
Feb 2019

But instituting a right-wing government by coup is not a solution to those problems. A lot of their problems is due to the drop in oil prices and sanctions from the US. The Carter Center said the past election wasn't free and fair for Maduro and I think they're right. We should have a negotiated settlement that has Maduro step down and have a transitional government come in with members of the opposition in it. I don't want a Bolsonaro friend in power and I don't want to see the US start a war down in Venezuela with the help of Bolton.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
36. Don't bother. Another one of those who blithely opine on
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 04:15 PM
Feb 2019

Venezuela without having the slightest idea of what is happening there. They are generally divided into 2 sub-groups: 1) Those who insist that Chavez nationalized Venezuelan oil (actually, done in 1957) and those who believe that the U.S. is dying to get its hands on the nasty sour sludge that ish Venezuelan crude (notwithstanding that the U.S. is the client for more than 40% of Venezula's oil right now. They just repeat the memes that float among that group and think that repeating them makes them sound knowledgeable.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
17. I agree....stop the madness.
Wed Feb 6, 2019, 06:44 PM
Feb 2019

Pretty much nobody has said the US government is going to seize Venezuela.

So, let's not say someone has. That would be a good way to stop the madness, before it even starts.

WhiteTara

(29,704 posts)
26. They made one mistake.
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 12:54 PM
Feb 2019

They are living on the earth over OUR oil. This is Bolton's desire to destabilize the world.

lark

(23,097 posts)
27. Totally agree.
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 12:56 PM
Feb 2019

This is all bout stealing their oil, moting less. Just like drumpf wanted to steal Iraqi oil, he now wants to steal Venezuela's. That so much of the world is jumping on this bandwagon just sickens and saddens me. Fucking oligarchs are united on this, which just shows how very wrong it is.

procon

(15,805 posts)
28. Trump the Conqueror thinks to the victor
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 01:05 PM
Feb 2019

goes the spoils of war. He lamented not being allowed to loot the oil wealth from the people of Iraq and he's still of a like mindset if he makes a military move on Venezuela. He will want to steal the oil from the citizens there even though it is the primary revenue source for the whole country.

Trump doesn't care if he leaves millions of innocent civilians even worse off than they already are, his greed is disgusting.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
30. "..seized by the US government." Did I miss that?
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 01:16 PM
Feb 2019

I don't recall a seizure...by the U.S., Canada, the E.U.......
Did i miss something?

 

liberalnarb

(4,532 posts)
35. Read The Shock Doctrine and you'll know what's coming.
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 01:56 PM
Feb 2019

These monsters' profit-motivated bloodthirst is unquenchable.

wiggs

(7,812 posts)
38. Correct. the gop, especially the bushes, didn't like that venezuela nationalized oil
Thu Feb 7, 2019, 04:50 PM
Feb 2019

and used it the way they wanted.

Response to malaise (Original post)

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