STOP trying to whitewash the blackface!

[EffieBlack]

If I see one more post insisting that we shouldn't judge what Northam did in 1984 by "today's standards," I'm going to throw my computer out the window. (To those who want me gone, don't get excited - I have more than one computer, so I'm not going anywhere ...)

The reprehensibility of blackface isn't a new phenomenon that sprung up in the Age of Obama. Black people and decent, thinking white people have been decrying its use for more than a century. And the consensus for the vast majority of the country has been that it was unacceptable for decades - well before 1984.

Don't believe me? Consider this: If wearing blackface wasn't that big a deal in 1984, why did Northam and his buddies only do it around each other and not broadcast their photos beyond their limited, privileged little circle?

Why are there no pictures of them (or anyone else at their school) standing around grinning in blackface next to, instead of KKK lookalikes, one or more of their black classmates or colleagues? Why didn't they show up at football games or integrated school mixers or at local events dressed like minstrels with shoe polish all over their faces and hands?

Because they knew then that what they were doing was some f*cked up racist ish.

So stop trying to excuse them by claiming it was ok then. It wasn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[FreepFryer]

1. THIS. (n/t)

[theboss]

2. Here's a pre 1984 sit-com on blackface

Yes, I watched Gimme A Break.

[HopeAgain]

3. I was just told here that what's going on is McCarthyism

White male privilege runs deep, even on this site.

[cwydro]

4. I'm out of the country but keeping up with this from afar.

Absolutely amazed, appalled, astounded at the DU contingent defending this.

I never ignore posters, but I’m starting to trash threads. Unbelievable.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. You don't find the "it happened thirty five years ago" argument persuasive.

[cwydro]

12. No. Not so much.

I was around his age at that time. Never knew ANYONE who would do such a thing.

I went to college in NC. I’ve never seen anyone in blackface or Klan costume. Thank god.

[harumph]

6. I agree. It's unacceptable - and the longer we try to square the circle, the longer it will

take to heal. I think some of the rationalizing has to do with the plain fact that the
relationship of democrats and republicans to simple moral issues is clearly asymmetrical. Republican leadership simply
does not give a shit about racist behavior except in the MOST egregious cases simple b/c their base doesn't. This is unfair -
but we should not emulate them in our rationalizing. Northam needs to step down. That said, I'm in the camp that believes unless
sufficient evidence is presented, Fairfax should not resign.

[EffieBlack]

7. I'm with you

[HipChick]

8. Thank you Effieblack..

I had a post removed for saying as much...
What's next, are we going to start seeing whitewashing of slavery on DU?

[dsc]

9. It is like calling someone a fag

that surely was common in the 1980's and people were willing to do so in public, by the 1990's still commonly done, not as much in public. Now pretty much not done except around like minded people or ironically. But in the 1980's and 1990's they knew they were being hateful pieces of crap, they just didn't care. It is beyond absurd to think that people didn't know that black face was hateful. It was apparently more accepted, at least in those circles, but it was known to be hateful.

[fleur-de-lisa]

10. K&R

[zipplewrath]

11. I tend to agree

But I think there is one flaw in your thinking.

Don't believe me? Consider this: If wearing blackface wasn't that big a deal in 1984, why did Northam and his buddies only do it around each other and not broadcast their photos beyond their limited, privileged little circle?

He put it in the year book. I'm not sure how else, in 1984, one "broadcasts" personal photos. It's not there was some instagram account or something. Photos usually ended up in photo albums on a shelf.

Which goes to the larger point. These things happened BECAUSE people lived in their, "limited, privileged little circle?" They maintained the idea that there were contexts in which these things were "acceptable" to do. It's where the context of "snowflake" comes from. People get an idea of what is acceptable while living in their own private little communities, and then when their community expands, it's those "other people" that are too sensitive, not their own behavior. These behaviors became common and acceptable because they never got exposed before.

[EffieBlack]

13. Obviously the yearbook was a limited publication with a limited audience - probably looked at only

by their select little group of friends. How else to explain that this never came to light until now?

Putting it in the yearbook is NOT putting it on blast.

And he doesn't get off the hook because he did this in a limited, privileged circle. Because people have more than one circle. There's their trusted college buddies and then there's the wider group of more casual friends and classmates and then there's the school community as a whole, all of which they are a part of. Then there's there professional circles, political circles, neighbors, etc. Northam was in the military, another group of circles.

No. He doesn't get a pass because he supposedly was too ignorant and insulated to know better. He knew better. That's why he only did it in this one particular group.

[zipplewrath]

14. Well that's the point

I'm not sure how one, in 1984 "broadcasts" it to a larger group. We lived our lives moving around in these various communities we occupy, but we don't massively mix them. And we certainly don't carry photo albums around. We form attitudes in which we accept that each community has its own rules or traditions. But because these communities don't mix often, we lose the understanding that some traditions are wrong. Not wrong in SOME community, but in ALL communities regardless of who is present.

He is STILL clueless because he has yet to understand what he did. He's still in that "apologizing because I got caught" mode, not because he realizes what is/was wrong. He STILL doesn't understand that it was wrong then, in ANY context. And in fact you can still hear in his various apologies and explanations that somehow there shouldn't be consequences here because he's such a great guy. That is a particular kind of "privilege" that he still doesn't get. I love the whole "that photo doesn't represent who I was" kind of statement. YES, it DOES represent who you were and in these statements he's making, it kinda suggests that still does to some extent.

[EffieBlack]

15. Exactly

It reminds me of Brett Kavanaugh. These guys are able to develop stellar reputations because they have the privilege and connections to have their bad behavior covered up or dismissed while they build their careers. Of COURSE it's easy to have a reputation as a "great guy" if all of the things that would undermine that reputation are ignored.

We've seen it right here on this board.

"What did he do that makes you think he's a racist?""
"Well, he wore blackface and hung out with guys in KKK outfits.""
"OK. Yeah. He did that. But what he do BESIDES that that makes you think he's a racist?""

In other words, he deserves the benefit of the doubt because he's a really great guy who's never done anything really bad ... if you don't count any of the bad things he's done, which we shouldn't count because he's such a great guy."

[TheBlackAdder]

16. There's another thread, driving me nuts, where one claims it's OK because it pays respect. WTF?

.

I wrote my college capstone on the Conundrum of the Christian Slaveholder, using Harriet Jacobs as the centerpiece, and substantiated with various sources, such as John Patrick Daly, J. Albert Harrill, Mitchell Snay, Brenda Stevenson and a host of others.

I see responses like that and it just pisses me off.

This one person then tries to use the absurdity of art as a justification for blackface's continued use. As someone with theater and artists in my immediate family, and one who is working on their second play, while the first is being packaged for copyright, that is a perverse excuse to me.

German artist Taco released Puttin' on the Ritz in 1982, and it was almost immediately banned from most networks due to the use of blackface in original form. As a precaution, a a second version cut the Al Jolson blackface out. So, even the Germans knew blackface was not good in 1982 America. It was subsequently filmed again in high quality, an no blackface.

.

[maxrandb]

17. I've not seen one thread sayijng we should judge Northam by "today's standards"

I've seen quite a few that state that it's possible he's a different person than he was 35 years ago.

I've seen posts stating that we should also judge him by the 35 years in between. Not that the stupid, hurtful thing he did 35 years does not matter, but that the 35 years since should also matter.

I've seen posts stating that we shouldn't destroy a man's life based on a stupid, hurtful incident from 35 years ago.

I've seen ZERO posts where anyone had said that dressing in blackface was EVER appropriate or normal, whether it be 35, 50, 75 or a 100 years ago.

I've seen quite a few posts from people disgusted with the rush to judgement and the demand for Northam's head, with absolutely no consideration that the moron he was at 25, is not the man he is today.

[EffieBlack]

18. That's not what I said

I referred to people who are saying we SHOULDN'T judge Northam by "today's standards" - as if 1984 was some backward period when most people didn't know that blackface was not ok.

Some things have changed and evolved since 1984. One thing that hasn't changed or evolved in the 35 years since then is the acceptability of blackface. It was no more acceptable in 1984 than it is now.

[maxrandb]

19. I still haven't seen one post

where someone was excusing Northam because Black Face was not known to be offensive in 1984

[EffieBlack]

20. Ok

[Rustyeye77]

21. No forgiveness .

No one is excusing.

It was wrong
It was stupid
It was immature

Judge a person in full. Has he not redeemed himself over 35 years ?


Learn to forgive.
We all make dumb mistakes.
Some day we all will say or do something stupid and we would want forgivness.

( and please dont throw your comp out the window)

[ismnotwasm]

22. K&R

[BumRushDaShow]

23. Although I took a break from Joe Madison the past 2 months, here is some of his food for thought

today (saw that his wife who is Exec. Producer, had a stroke 3 weeks ago... )

The GOP Majority Leader of the VA state Senate, is featured in an article (also referenced in a tweet down further). Excerpt from the article -

Virginia Sen. Tommy Norment was an editor for VMI yearbook filled with racist photos and slurs

By Katherine Hafner and Elisha Sauers
Staff writers
Feb 7, 2019 Updated 5 min ago



A Virginia Military Institute yearbook overseen by future state Senate Majority Leader Tommy Norment in 1968 features a host of racist photos and slurs, including blackface. The revelation about one of Virginia's most powerful Republicans comes as the state’s Democratic governor and attorney general are facing calls to resign over their own admissions they wore blackface as young men.

Norment, R-James City County, was managing editor of The Bomb publication that year. He went to VMI in Lexington after graduating from James Blair High School in Williamsburg and has been a state senator since 1992.

On one page of the yearbook, a student poses in blackface, surrounded by others in costumes at a party. Another page features a photo of two men in blackface holding a football. The N-word is used at least once. A student listed as being from Bangkok, Thailand, is referred to as a “Chink” and “Jap.” A blurb under one man’s picture says: "He was known as the 'Barracks Jew’ having his fingers in the finances of the entire Corps."

The Bomb has been published continuously since 1897. The first black students were allowed to enroll at the institute in the fall of 1968.

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/virginia/article_d4ce7700-2ae3-11e9-ace9-ff7814740140.html

Link to tweet

TEXT
Joe Madison
✔
@MadisonSiriusXM

Why do we pretend like we've moved beyond blackface? We forget far too quickly what some people have done.
Call me: 1-866-801-8255https://www.thewrap.com/blackface-star-backfire-ted-danson-julianne-hough-kylie-jenner/ …
45
7:05 AM - Feb 7, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
10 Stars Whose Blackface Blunders Backfired, From Ted Danson to Kylie Jenner (Photos)

These celebrities offer a timely reminder that it's never OK -- so don't try it
thewrap.com

Link to tweet

TEXT
Orlando Sentinel
✔
@orlandosentinel

Gucci apologizes, pulls 'blackface sweater' from stores after complaints http://bit.ly/2DWSTDE
8
8:17 AM - Feb 7, 2019

Link to tweet

TEXT
Joe Madison
✔
@MadisonSiriusXM

Politicians in Virginia have a lot of racist skeletons in their closets.https://pilotonline.com/news/government/politics/virginia/article_d4ce7700-2ae3-11e9-ace9-ff7814740140.html …
17
2:10 PM - Feb 7, 2019

[Garrett78]

24. The "product of their time" argument always ignores the fact that millions...

...knew at the time in question that the action was wrong. And not just the victims of said action but also the perpetrators, as you point out.

That a majority of white Americans have always been and continue to be racist does not excuse their racism. We must do all we can to eradicate both racism and sexism. There is no more important task in terms of progressing as a nation. 1 of the 2 major parties wouldn't even exist as a viable party were it not for racism and sexism. It's not right wing economic policy or health care policy or environmental policy that maintains support for the Republican Party. It is racism and sexism, plain and simple. The Democratic Party, of course, has demons, as well, though our party's viability is not wholly dependent upon racism and sexism.