Wait ONE MINUTE here.

[sheshe2]

I have tried to stay out of this.

Let me see if I have this straight.

Northam. White. Two yearbooks. Two stories. One he admits to being in a picture in black face standing next to a man in a KKK robe. Next day, IT WAS NOT ME! I would never do anything like that, however I love and admire Michael Jackson so for a dance contest I used a bit of shoe polish on my face, so yeah, I darkened my face and did a little jive. I moonwalked! It was fun. Second year book, he was known a 'coonman' and has no clue why he was called that. He refuses to resign because he doesn't want to be called a racist for life.

Now we have the LT Governor twice accused of rape. The man is black. Um. I am with the #metwo movement yet would like to see an investigation first. Sorry, that is me.

Which man has articles of impeachment being written against him for his removal. That would be the black man by a white man, yet the white man gets a pass.

Go figure.

I am sorry, I am so confused with this hot mess.

[Eko]

1. The articles of impeachment

is wrong before an investigation is done.

[sheshe2]

3. Yes.

I am just so confused. This is far from just black and white.

[uponit7771]

5. +1, #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation. #NoFranken2.0!!!

[Empowerer]

22. Weren't we told last week that Northampton couldn't be impeached for anything

unrelated to his performance as governor and since the blackface incidents predates his tenure, they couldn't be grounds for impeachment?

[Eko]

23. No idea.

Its not anything that I pushed.

[spooky3]

31. Here is what I think is the relevant part of the VA constitution.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/constitution/article4/section17/

I read the “in office” limitation as applying only to “malfeasance” but I’m not a lawyer.

[onenote]

37. I am a lawyer, and I agree: in office modifies malfeasance, but not the other cited grounds

[spooky3]

38. Thanks. Nt

[jberryhill]

57. How DARE you cite to the actual text!

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Investigate first. Now these dont always work, Kavanaugh was CLEARLY shown to be

a serial ...you know, I dont want to get sued so I wont say.

You know, same thing rump was accused of and clearly guilty of.

They of course were promoted.

Gee, I wonder if the GOP who cares NOTHING about women and NOTHING about rape will use the #MeToo movement against us and to their advantage...gee

And anyone who comes along and ALL OF A SUDDEN has a great deal of CONCERN about these men, well, I dont have to finish that one.

[brush]

4. There must be an investigation in the Fairfax case.

Not just accusations. If he did let's find out for sure and punish him.

There's no need for an investigation in Northam's or the AG's case as they confessed.

An investigation pls, we've seen Franken set-up by repugs and driven from office without an investigation. I'm not saying he's innocent but lset's find out if he's guilty.

[Bradshaw3]

6. One way to help you understand

Is that the biggest difference - by far - in these two cases is that one is about what could be multiple criminal sexual assaults while another is about painting your face, which is racist, stupid and abhorrent, but not criminal.

[sheshe2]

7. Blackface

Blackface standing next to a white robed clansman, a symbol of hatred that caused the murder of thousands of black men, women and the children such as Emmett Till is abhorrent to me as rape.

[Bradshaw3]

12. Perhaps you should ask a rape victim about that comparison

Regardless, blackface is not a crime and rape is one of the most serious crimes there is. Some of the comments people are making here on this subject are hard to believe.

[Captain Stern]

17. I agree with you in that I think both of those things are abhorrent.

But one of those things is a crime, not just in a figurative sense, but it's actually a crime.

The other is not. That's a difference that makes a difference.

[Blue_true]

41. The yearbooks for that college of medicine were found to have a lot of racist stuff in them

as recent as the early 90s, when a new dean put an end to the practice. Northam went to that medical school 35, in the mid 80s, almost a decade before the practice of racist racist stuff like blackface and conferderate flag games were ended. I am more interested in what Northam did versus race over 35 years leading up to today.

In terms of Fairfax, he should get an investigation done by an organization that does not have a political axe to grind. Once that investigation is done, then other decisions can be made.

[MH1]

9. If it's criminal and there's evidence, charge it in a court of law.

I am okay with ousting someone based on findings of a civil investigation.

I am not okay with ousting someone based on unsubstantiated, un-investigated accusations.

But if it's truly criminal and did happen, then CRIMINAL penalties need to be pursued.

[Bradshaw3]

11. My post was about the difference between the two accusations

I said nothing about whether an investigation was right or wrong. Also, this talk about lynching needs to stop. Anyone who comaores this to a lynching demeans the horrible history of lynching in this country.

Both accusers seem to be credible and have no reason to make this up, as far as I can tell. You can do an investigation but stop using that word and lynching as ways to deflect from the seriousness of the accusations, or to try and deride the accusers.

[MH1]

13. Okay

I edited my post. You're right, I shouldn't have used that word.

I wasn't meaning to deflect from the seriousness of the accusations at all. If anything, an actual lynching would be far worse than losing one's job. In our sad history, black men WERE lynched (in the KILLED meaning of the word), merely on the say so of a white woman. So the wrong comparison is that of losing one's job and reputation, vs. losing one's life. During my life, I have often heard the word "lynching" used in a metaphorical usage as I did. But as you have reminded me that some are uncomfortable with that usage, for good reason, I replaced it, and will try to do better next time.

As for the accusations, if they weren't serious, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. The problem is, the first accuser had NO evidence at all, and whatever you call the result, harming someone as retribution for one person's say-so (whether that person is white, black, or purple) is bullshit. Now, the second accuser sounds like they have more of a case. With that, there definitely needs to be an investigation.

[jberryhill]

8. What is the usual sentence for the crime of blackface?

[sheshe2]

10. Perhaps, J...

He should have articles OF IMPEACHMENT written up against him. Did you read my post?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. In a perfect world all three would go.

[jberryhill]

24. I did read your post

Impeachment is generally for a crime of some kind, and involves an investigation, debate and trial in the course of moving forward with articles of impeachment.

Rape is a felony, and apparently there is a belief that a hitherto uncharged or prosecuted crime might be a reason for impeachment, as opposed to something that is extremely offensive and insulting, but is not a crime.

Another approach might be to ask whether wearing blackface should be a crime of some kind, since the legislature is, after all, primarily a legislature.

From your inability to grasp that this may be a significant distinction, would I be correct in assuming that you understand impeachment to be more loosely based on the official in question to have done something ghastly, of which crimes would be a smaller subset of a larger collection of things for which impeachment is appropriate.

[OliverQ]

15. Being a racist 35 years ago isn't illegal.

Committing sexual assault against multiple women is.


Pretty easy to see why one is getting impeached and one isn't.

[LexVegas]

16. Yep. nt

[sheshe2]

18. Committing or Accused of?

Big difference.

[jberryhill]

26. Impeachment involves a trial

[vdogg]

29. Impeachment in the Virginia Constitution

Is limited to crimes and malfeasance committed while in office. This probably won't even make it to the floor.

[onenote]

36. I don't think that is correct.

Can you cite to a decision that supports that construction of the Constitutional language, because on its face, it is not so limiting:

The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, judges, members of the State Corporation Commission, and all officers appointed by the Governor or elected by the General Assembly, offending against the Commonwealth by malfeasance in office, corruption, neglect of duty, or other high crime or misdemeanor may be impeached by the House of Delegates and prosecuted before the Senate, which shall have the sole power to try impeachments.

"in office" modifies malfeasance, but does not modify "corruption, neglect of duty or other high crime or misdemeanor"

[Blue_true]

43. I have had to deal with people that sexually harrass others.

They don't stop until confronted with a serious investigation. What is found in most cases are other victims that chose to keep their mouths shut until they no longer could.

[Me.]

19. I Would Like More Info

because like Pierce I wonder if something funny going on. WE know about the RWers but now I read the JDs are also involved and they can be as ruthless as the Cons. Let an investigation be done, but fairly to both parties because history is littered with women who haven't been believed and black men who have been unfairly/unjustly accused.

[sheshe2]

21. Thank you.

This.

Let an investigation be done, but fairly to both parties because history is littered with women who haven't been believed and black men who have been unfairly/unjustly accused.

You said what I did not. You said it perfectly. I tried to find the words.

Thank you.

[Empowerer]

20. I JUST uttered almost identical words to a family member

Wait a damned minute.

[pault420]

27. Raping a woman is 100x's worse then blackface.

Sorry.

And while blackface has no place in our society, it doesn't help when I'm on FB and all my conservative relatives are posting memes showing so many hollywood actors and late night talk show hosts in blackface. If we aren't going to hold them responsible for their actions, then it really diminishes the hurt that it's causes for so many because it now says it's acceptable depending who did it.

But the fact that Northam was next to someone in full KKK garb and knowing that the KKK lynched people is really disturbing... BOTH need to resign and it begs an even better question....

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN VIRGINIA!!?!?

[allgood33]

52. Yes, it is.

[jrthin]

28. Being black in America is a bitch. A friend just texted me

to say that a white man gets shot and a black man dies.

[Takket]

30. doesn't impeachment trigger the investigation you want?

maybe it works different on the state level... i don't know..... but on the federal level impeachment is the House basically saying "something is wrong here, Senate please hold a trial to determine if this person should be removed from office." It stands to reason that the trial will include presentation of facts/testimony. I.E. the fair hearings Fairfax should have to determine if he is removed.

I think Northam is going to continue to be pressed HARD by Democrats to resign, and I think he eventually will, but if not he may be impeached later as well. But once the second accuser came out on Fairfax the severity of the crimes he is accused of require immediate attention from the VA Legislature.

[spooky3]

34. I think so; see this link:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/constitution/article4/section17/

As a VA resident, FWIW, I think the calls for Northam to resign will slow down or reverse somewhat.

I would like to see all three cases investigated in a fair way.

[Baltimike]

32. Both stories were brought about by the same right wing rag...

Get the BLM movement to call for the resignation of the white guy, and get the MeToo movement to go ofter the black guy.

Divide and conquer.

Neither should go anywhere.

[Empowerer]

33. Did BLM call for Northam's resignation?

Maybe they should insist that, if we must believe all women, we also assume all black men are innocent.

[Baltimike]

35. There were certainly many in the AA community demanding Northam resign

and then, as soon as the prominent AA's went on record...it was like...BOOM look here about Fairfax.

They should both stand together.

[sheshe2]

46. Boom!

[keepFocused06]

39. Not the same

Fairfax has been accused of criminal conduct. He is not getting treated poorly because he is black. I don't know if he did it or not but the fact that two women have now accused him is tough to get past.

[sheshe2]

40. True.

He is not getting treated poorly because he is black.

Word. Emmett Till.

[melman]

42. "Word. Emmett Till."

You're aware that both of the women involved here are black, are you not?

[sheshe2]

47. Why thank you melman.

I am very much aware of their color.

[melman]

49. Well then

you should probably be aware of how wildly inappropriate your post is...but you apparently are not.

[sheshe2]

50. Nighty night mel.

[Blue_true]

45. I respect your posts, but you seem to have jumped the tracks on the comparison you made.

The two situations are not the same. There should not be an attempt to make them the same.

[sheshe2]

48. Fine.

Night.

[Blue_true]

44. I agree. The rape allegations are about conduct.

Some are trying to make it about a Black man being targeted. I believe that if Fairfax was White, Hispanic, Asian, the same thing would be happening.

[58Sunliner]

51. Can you separate rape from race and just see the Lt Gov as an accused rapist?

I don't see the point in conflating the two. One is disgusting, but physically harmed no one directly. The other paints a picture of a violent sociopath who allegedly targeted a woman because she had already been a victim and he knew she would not speak up. One acknowledged the reality; if true, the other was enraged because he was being confronted by it. How can it be so hard to separate the two? Fairfax is a black man accused by 2 black women. It reeks of sexism to put his position as a black man ahead of the black women who have accused him.
If Northam was accused of rape by credible women, he would be leaving. I was all for Northam to resign, but the transfer of power has to be safeguarded so no one is at risk. That may take time. It may not happen. We will see.

[sheshe2]

53. Well.

I don't see the point in conflating the two. One is disgusting, but physically harmed no one directly.

Sadly that is said way to often, The racism "physically harmed no one directly." Tell that to the black men, women and children that face it every day. The 'black face' person in that picture is everything that is wrong about how America views racism. It is funny, hilarious even and very very deadly. It isn't just a photo it is sadly a face of to many Americans.

[Baclava]

55. I don't think u are confused, they're saying 'The white guy can stay but the black guy has to go!'

maybe they should impeach the guy trying to impeach him with no trial or investigation for failing to understand basic American principles of due process

[sheshe2]

56. Thank you, Baclava.

thanks.

[spooky3]

58. If both were accused of having done the same thing,

Then a difference in response would be racist.

[58Sunliner]

60. You are just blindly supporting someone because of race? What about the women who accused him?

I see 2 credible accusations of rape. I don't see a black rapist, I just see a probable rapist. Otherwise I would be a racist.

[Baclava]

61. I am not a lawyer and don't pretend to be one on-line, I'm looking at perceptions

that's all

[58Sunliner]

59. I understand what you are saying, and I agree.

As crappy as it is to draw a line, it is factually true that assault was not a factor in that photo.

[Polybius]

54. One accusation is highly illegal and violent, the other is not

You seriously don't see why one is impeachable and the other isn't?