Bernie Sanders Announces that he is a Candidate for 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination

[AdamGG]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/bernie-sanders-2020.html

I have fewer issues with Bernie than many people on DU and welcome as many voices as possible to the large marketplace of ideas that will comprise the 2020 primaries.

But, one scenario that I could see developing, that I'm not sure that I would like is that with such a large field of candidates, the progressive, or "new face" candidates could all siphon votes away from each other and open the path for a more centrist establishment candidate like Joe Biden to sweep through with like 26% of the vote.

I like Biden and I'm not sure that would be a bad thing, but there's going to be multiple spoiler effects going on. For one, Kamala Harris & Corey Booker are likely to split the black vote and open up states like South Carolina for someone else.

[SidDithers]

1. I'm more interested in when he announces his concession...

Will he concede when he’s eliminated, or drag a dead and divisive candidacy all the way to the convention?

Sid

[yardwork]

4. And beyond.

[LexVegas]

9. +1. nt

[kennetha]

2. Just what we need for 2020

Two angry, entitled septuagenarian white guys pushing 80 vying for the presidency.

No thanks.

[AdamGG]

3. I kind of agree, but Biden might be a good candidate to do well in the upper midwest

I'm leery of someone taking on this job at 78, especially with all the work needed to reverse what Trump has done, but I think that Biden could possibly be one of the best candidates to maximize our results in Pennsylvania/Ohio/Michigan/Wisconsin and to pick up some of the people who voted for Trump, but are open to voting for a centrist Democrat.

I prefer Elizabeth Warren's rock solid anti Wall Street record, but the overriding thing that matters in this election is generating the largest blue wave possible, with coattails that flip the maximum number of governor/state legislature seats, so that we can undo as much of the gerrymanding as possible after the 2020 census. I will vote for any Democratic candidate that appears to have the greatest chance of doing that.

[yardwork]

5. So is Bernie a Democrat now?

[nini]

6. Where are his taxes?

Put up or shut up Bernard.

[rgbecker]

7. Seems the anti-Bernie group on DU have two complaints.

1. He retains his "Independent" designation rather than calling himself a Democrat.

2. He never released his tax returns.

Nothing about his stand on Healthcare, College tuition, Minimum (Living) wage.

He will bring many out because of his stand on issues. He will release his tax returns. Few of the Independents will give a shit about his "refusal" to call himself a Democrat.

Bernie will likely do well in the run up to the convention.

Will his lack of color, old age, Jewishness and gender come to play? Or is the DU diverse enough to be inclusive of everyone?

[AdamGG]

8. The level of Bernie hate here is perplexing

He brought out issues in 2016 which improved the party's platform. He surged from 3% in the polls when he entered the race, to 45%. He will help make the 2020 debates more high profile and increase ratings. That usually helps the general election result, doesn't hurt it.

Bernie in 2016 did not undercut the eventual nominee like Ted Kennedy did in 1980. Blaming Bernie for Hillary coming up short in 2016 is misplaced anger.

[BannonsLiver]

15. In today's episode of "Gaslighting recent history"

Nice try though.

[ehrnst]

18. +1000.

[AdamGG]

20. Honestly, I may not have followed the 2016 primaries closely enough to know what you're referring to

There was no question that I would vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election, but saw good points in both Hillary & Bernie and to be honest, didn't vote in the Massachusetts primary. I thought of voting in the Republican primary (open primaries in state) maybe for Kasich to register opposition to the abomination of Trump, but I didn't because I thought someone more reasonable, like Kasich, would do better than Trump in the general election.

Can you point me to an article or summarize why my perception is wrong about Bernie? I liked what I saw of him in the debates and in televized speeches. Where is the negative that I missed?

[nini]

10. 'Lack of color'?

There it is. Wow. Poor old white man is being discriminated against.


How about his lack of legislative accomplishments to back it his talking points? Very few senators even want to deal with his cranky ass. To be a successful president he'd have to be able to work with others to get things actually achieved. he has not shown he can do that. He has spent more time cutting down Democrats than working with us. Is that Anti-Bernie or just accepting the fact he is not one of us so why run as part of the party? His ideas are not his alone and to keep saying that ignores all the Democrats that work hard for those things.

He will not do well this time. He'll be vetted this time and those tax returns will be an issue for him. He can't connect with women of color - he hasn't connected with those who will make him a legitimate contender.

[ehrnst]

12. Old white men always have the hardest time getting elected, apparently.

[nini]

13. I know.. it's a national disgrace!

[ehrnst]

11. Are you saying that anyone on DU who doesn't support Sanders is a reverse racist/anti-semite

and therefore isn't "inclusive?"

Seriously?

[BannonsLiver]

14. A lot of other people have those ideas as well

Bernie followers think he invented all of them. Cool campfire story but not true. And the list is longer than that. He’s refused to sanction Russia and has a questionable view on guns to name two more reasons. There are others. His desire to see Obama out of the WH in 2012 is another. When you call for a sitting president to be replaced you want them out, it’s not about keeping them accountable. Nobod believes that line of his reasoning.

[LanternWaste]

16. Seems you do yourself a disservice by limiting it to merely two absolutes.

"Or is the DU diverse enough to be inclusive of everyone?"

Seems you do yourself a disservice by limiting it to merely two absolutes... but I get it: it's fun to pretend that either one supports the man, or one is anti-Semitic. Irrational as hell, but fun.

[ehrnst]

17. Yes, the False Dillema fallacy

Description: When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. Another variety is the false trilemma, which is when three choices are presented when more exist.

Example (two choices):

You are either with God or against him.

Explanation: As Obi-Wan Kenobi so eloquently puts it in Star Wars episode III, “Only a Sith deals in absolutes!” There are also those who simply don’t believe there is a God to be either with or against.

.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/94/False-Dilemma

[Garrett78]

19. Demographics and perception will play a larger role than policy positions.

Midwesterners and New Englanders will hurt one another in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Many Bernie fans seem to love Warren but dislike Harris, even though the latter 2 have the same voting record. That has to do with race and perception.

Votes won't be split over policy positions so much as over demographics (race, sex, region, etc.) and perception of policy positions.

Sanders is wholly reliant on Iowa and New Hampshire. So is Klobuchar. So are Warren and Biden. And Brown. Disappointing finishes will effectively end campaigns. Others can more easily bounce back from early defeats.

In addition to not having any more caucuses, we should start with states that actually reflect our electorate.