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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsProudMNDemocrat
(16,789 posts)Because they are being bested every step of the way no matter how they try to bullshit their way out of this mess.
Paul Manafort is PROOF that there was collusion and CONSPIRACY to commit election fraud between the Trump Campaign and Russia to swing the election in Trump's favor.
lame54
(35,321 posts)niyad
(113,552 posts)calimary
(81,466 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,166 posts)happens if rump pardons M in lets say, 5 years from now?
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)Stuff of nightmares.
SWBTATTReg
(22,166 posts)now. Never!! I guess I better rephrase the ? as hopefully there isn't a short term limitation on when NY (or other states) can file charges, e.g., must file in 1 or 2 years, etc.
Thanks for catching this...Yikes!
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that was one serious brain lapse there!
PJMcK
(22,048 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,166 posts)all, eh?
GWC58
(2,678 posts)against Manafort, pardon, or no pardon. Let Paulie do his time at a N.Y. correctional institution. 😡
LiberalFighter
(51,084 posts)shanti
(21,675 posts)if he's pardoned? He'll probably be on the next private jet to Russia, if so. Good luck getting him back after that!
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Russia wouldn't give a hoot in hell about him if he tried to come there without cash.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)The FBI owns his apartment in Trump tower and they seized his Brooklyn apartment.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Hidden in the Cayman Islands.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that what he has in NY is a small fraction of what he has squirreled away in places where we'll never find it.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)Manfort forfeited five New York homes worth an estimated $22 million as part of his plea deal with Mueller, including a Trump Tower condo.
Sep. 15, 2018, 8:04 AM EDT
By Kenzi Abou-Sabe, Adiel Kaplan and Tom Winter
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort pleaded guilty to two counts Friday morning, agreeing to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. As part of his plea deal, Manafort will forfeit a host of assets, including New York properties worth an estimated $21.7 million.
The longtime Republican political operative will hand over five properties, the funds contained in three bank accounts and a life insurance policy to the government. These forfeitures include two properties purchased with offshore funds for the express purpose of evading taxes, according to prosecutors.
The forfeited properties listed in Manafort's plea agreement are his Hamptons home, three apartments in Manhattan, and a Brooklyn townhouse. In a superseding indictment filed Friday morning, Manaforts Arlington, Virginia property was one of four properties listed for forfeiture, but Manafort kept that home by pledging a second SoHo apartment in lieu of it, and also exchanged his Trump Tower apartment for one of four bank accounts the government planned to seize.
Two of the New York City properties are in the swanky SoHo neighborhood, with market values estimated at $4.1 million and $3.1 million by property listings website Zillow.com. Manaforts Brooklyn home, in coveted Carroll Gardens, is worth $4.1 million and his Fifth Avenue Trump Tower apartment is valued at $3 million according to Zillow estimates. Zillow lists his Hamptons home where he had a landscaper build a flower bed in the shape of an "M" as worth $7.3 million.
More: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/manafort-forfeits-22-million-new-york-real-estate-plea-deal-n909596
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Thank you! Then there is no escape for him. Here's to justice!
Btw, I remember reading that now but am...gees...getting OLD and forgetful.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)It's hard to keep up, much less keep track!
Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)the Russians get back in swaps, but they still like to have someone to hold up as being emblematic of enduring suffering for the cause of the state.
Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)... just an asset - a stooge. Unlikely in my opinion that they would use much political capitol to harbor him. It would make more sense for them to just eliminate him.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)before he might have a chance to say something incriminating?
I think the Russians believe Manafort is conning Mueller, and they want to reward that, if only to send a message to future stooges that they will not be double-crossed. I'm sure Manafort can find a cozy dacha in the eastern part of Ukraine, where his connections there will protect him. The Russians would expend minimal political capital to allow such a thing.
Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)... Putin is as pleased as he can be with the cluster in our government. Indictments, scandal, impeachment, etc... the more chaos the better. Even his denials that hes behind it all are wink, wink.
Hes proud of what hes done, and will be revered in Russian history books for doing it.
So he doesnt care about Manafort. He cant like Manafort - or even trump. They are asses and fools, and I think Putins tolerance for such people is very low.
And, for him the game is not to repeat this in the future with more assets. It is to maximize the payoff for this operation.
Just my take. Again, I could be wrong.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)to get a reputation for screwing over his stooges, if he does, it will be very difficult to recruit more of them. I think he will simply not stand in the way of Manafort taking off for Ukraine the second he gets his passport back.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)since he refused to prosecute Ivanka and Don Jr.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)is Trump 2020 going to send him 50K and he'll make the charges go away?
jrthin
(4,837 posts)him know we are watching him this time,
Timmygoat
(779 posts)Every time someone mentions that Trump may pardon someone, how can a crook and co-conspiritor
pardon anyone?
Rural_Progressive
(1,107 posts)These clowns can't win at tic tac toe. That's what happens when a group has been allowed to run roughshod over the country for over 40 years without significant challenge. You get sloppy and complacent and now the whole thing is going to implode on them.
Glad I've been allowed to live long enough to see it. This gang of retread thugs has been a blight on our country for way too long.
DinahMoeHum
(21,809 posts)n/t
GoCubsGo
(32,088 posts)I have no doubt, whatsoever, that Mueller handed off a whole bunch of evidence on the Trumps and the rest of their associates to the State of New York, as well. It wouldn't surprise me if the states of New Jersey and Illinois were given piles of it, as well. There are likely state cases against all of them, and probably in more than one state.
FakeNoose
(32,748 posts)Robert Mueller is already 74, and he's earned his retirement 10 times over. The guy is a hero (no doubt) but how long can we expect him to continue? It only makes sense that other prosecutors get ready to take over, with Mr. Mueller's blessing.
Wounded Bear
(58,706 posts)the Epstein case breaking lately looks likely to implicate the Trump crime family through their dirty connections in South Florida.
I suspect that the demise of their new cheap motel chain idea has as much to do with the thought that a nation-wide chain of businesses would open them up to as many as 50 investigatory orgainizations digging into their finances. I almost wish they'd try it.
GoCubsGo
(32,088 posts)They're as corrupt as Trump administration.
Wounded Bear
(58,706 posts)he basically just flips the board over if things don't go well for him.
Having him at the top of our justice system was the worst thing the American people could have done. I always suspected that Trump thought of a seat in the Oval Office as a get out of jail free card. With any luck, he'll be disavowed of that feeling.
RoccoRyg
(260 posts)They play Chutes & Ladders and land on all the chutes.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)Give him a long peek. Help him reconsider his options.
The empressof all
(29,098 posts)I'm not sure where they send the high profile white collar criminals in NY state but I can't imagine it would provide a more comfortable abode than a Federal "Country Club" prison. Manafort will need to think long and hard and be careful about that wished for pardon. It probably will come back and bite him in his ass.
ancianita
(36,133 posts)which challenges the dual-sovereignty settled law?
The day after Justice Kennedy's retirement, SCOTUS decided to hear the case, and Orrin Hatch submitted a 44-page amicus brief on it.
If the dual-sovereignty doctrine were tossed by SCOTUS, as Orrin Hatch wants, then Trumps pardon could theoretically protect Manafort from state action.
Again, If Hatch gets his way ... a federal pardon would essentially block a subsequent state-level prosecution.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/trump-pardon-orrin-hatch-supreme-court/571285/
Hulk
(6,699 posts)You can bet your last dollar on it. This mf'r hasn't begun to pull his shit out of the bag yet. We don't have him trapped in a corner....yet.
radical noodle
(8,013 posts)communicated to trump. Does he prefer state prison or federal prison?