Effing Media! There is NO my reality and your reality

[maxrandb]

There is only REALITY!

Fuckstick Chuck Todd was talking about a poll regarding Donnie Shit for Brains "honesty" regarding contacts with Russia based on what news you consume.

Faux News viewers rated Donnie Short Fingers honesty regarding the Russia investigation at 86% "honest".

MSNBC viewers had it at 19%. Probably because of Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell.

CNN viewers had it at 1%.

Chucky interpreted this as, "your reality is based on the news you watch".

Holy fuck! How far down the rabbit hole have we gone when the media doesn't point out that it's a fucking FACT that Donnie Shit for Brains has lied his ass off regarding everything Russia.

Does the fact that a bunch of morons in Dumbfuckistan 'Murika, sitting around bragging about how good their sisters are in bed, take presidence over the fucking truth?

A fucking 3 year old will tell you a candy bar costs $1,000.00. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THAT ANY kind of REALITY.

It's not fucking news that people can't identify a lie. That's being a moron.

I wish Chuck would quit pissing down our backs and tell us it's raining.

Chuck... that's not rain you fuckstick.

[hedda_foil]

1. What he clearly meant was that what you believe is reality depends on the media you watch.

Does that help?

[maxrandb]

4. What someone believes is "reality"?

That's the fucking problem.

Maybe the news should stick to actual reality.

If I want dramatic fiction, I'll get that from General Hospital.

When someone believes fantasy is reality, we normally send them for professional help... NOT give them time on a premier Sunday News show.

[Caliman73]

11. "Reality" is a complicated subject that philosophers have been discussing for ages.

Inuit people have many different words to describe snow. There are many words in Spanish that do not translate in to English. What our experiences are growing up, the language, the music, the community, etc... certainly shape our view of "reality".


I understand why you are frustrated. Prior to the advent of Conservative media, information was presented by 3 television sources, a few print sources, and some radio sources usually local or tied nationally to the media outlets who did the televised news. There were still partisan fights and interpretation of the information presented from either a liberal or conservative framework, but the sources were mostly shared.

At this point, conservatives rarely even hear information from the liberal or even the "neutral" perspective. They get their media from a strictly conservative perspective and have even been told over and over that anything other than what the conservative media states, is "liberal" or now in Trump's time, "fake news".

The difficulty is that "reality" in a post modern world, is not always easily defined. Think of it this way. When White people call the police, they mainly see it as "help coming". When Black people interact with the police, there is a way better than chance probability that something bad will happen to them regardless of why the police are coming. Who in that scenario is living in a fantasy world. A lot of White people think that Black people are living in a "fantasy world" and that things aren't that bad. They think that Black people are over reacting, and that is not just hard core Fox News watchers.

Again, I understand and agree that Conservative Media has for the most part severely damaged the idea of objectivity.

I don't like Chuck Todd but he is right. People's idea of "reality" is definitely influenced by the media they consume. What he should have followed with (and I don't know if he did because I rarely watch him) is that Fox News lies and that study after study have shown that their viewers are the most misinformed people.

The problem is how to deal with Fox News and other right wing media outlets which continue to lie and misinform people.

[Iliyah]

2. Chuck Todd is a RWer.

[PatSeg]

3. A person's reality is not the same

as "facts". It is their perception and someone who watches Fox News has a different perception of the world than someone who watches MSNBC or CNN.

I'm not defending Chuck Todd, but each person's reality will vary depending on their life experiences and what they are exposed to.

That said, some of those polls were rather absurd. I think one gave Trump a 46% approval rating and Todd didn't even question how that could possibly be true. Acted like it was no big deal.

[maxrandb]

7. Arggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh

There is only REALITY. I may perceive that the world is flat

I don't care what show I watched, or what book I read that made me think the world is flat... The World is still fucking round.

[Caliman73]

12. Something to digest...maybe?

There are facts and physical information, but perception is important in the shaping of what people call "reality".


Oh... and, the world is not round. It is an oblate spheroid.

[PatSeg]

14. Thanks

I didn't think it was that controversial. People are complex and each experiences the world in their own unique way.

[Caliman73]

15. I used to be an Empiricist...

I still hold some of the values regarding science and the scientific method. However, I have certainly learned that there is no one answer. There may be a "best explanation" in terms of physically observable phenomena, but as you said, "People are complex" and to say that that a reality for me is reality for someone who has grown up in the Amazon, who has not had access to media, can be dangerous. Granted, exposure to other perspectives would likely challenge the person from the Amazon to change some of their perspective, but I should also be willing to understand how that person's environment has shaped them.

Now, the issue of Fox News is different in my opinion, in that Fox News was deliberately created (as was the right wing media environment) to insulate conservatives and try to spread the ideology wider than it would naturally go. One thing has been constant in Human civilization and that is CHANGE. I would go so far as to say "progressive change" at that. Fox News and the subsequent right wing bubble has been an attempt to preserve the status quo. Conservatism (in my humble opinion) to borrow from Betsy DeVos, is a "closed system" and a "dead end". It doesn't grow naturally because it is based in zero sum and finite ideas. The only real way to keep it going is through exposure and indoctrination (I know that these are things that conservatives say about Liberals too). There is no pure culture, especially as travel and communication have improved, and conservatives try to run and hide from that. America is as it is because of the contributions and experiences of many cultures, genders, and human experiences but the experiences of one gender and a certain racial group have been given special status and at this point in our history, that primacy has been challenged. Conservatives are scared to death about the future because they understand how they have treated people based on gender, skin color, and nationality. Fox News and the subsequent media environment is their way of trying to forestall the changes that may likely lead to the historical paradigm shifting away from their power. This is why I think that Fox is dangerous even when I challenge the idea of "one reality".

[PatSeg]

19. Thanks for the thoughtful response

The older I get, the more I realize how complex life is. Someone can genuinely believe a lie such as a Fox News viewer and that then becomes their "reality" at least if and until their perspective changes.

One can look back throughout history and see the scientific method used to come to conclusions that later are disproved or changed. In the future, truths we consider written in stone may be changed, as people acquire more understanding and knowledge. For most issues, there is no final complete answer, there is always more to learn and discover. And perhaps the truth was always the same, but our perception of it has evolved.

The only thing I find more frustrating than a conservative who refuses to change, is a self-identified progressive, who puts his blinders on and is unwilling to entertain any variation of the reality he has embraced. A mistake I myself have made. I get a bit humbler as I get older.

[PatSeg]

13. Sorry

I cannot agree with you. Perception varies from person to person and as such so does their "reality". The facts may not differ, but one's interpretation of them may. When we refer to a "person's reality", it is often meant in a figurative sense, not always a literal one.

Guess I see things from a much more philosophical and psychological perspective, but I don't think it is worth arguing about. Have a nice night.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. Chuckles the Clown should have been replaced YEARS ago!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[pwb]

6. High paid news talkers become republican.

The billionaire news owners pay to get their message out.

[Wellstone ruled]

8. Chuckie Toad

failed Democratic Campaign Manager for Tom Harkin 1992.

[wasupaloopa]

9. You don't just consume what you hear from a news show if you have critical thinking skills. My

guess is Faux News watchers do not have critical thinking skills.

[Caliman73]

16. Enough exposure to one source of information can change just about anyone.

There was a very good Star Trek TNG episode where Captain Picard is captured by the Cardassians I believe. His captor sits him in front of four lights, tortures him and tries to gaslight him into saying there are 3 lights. Very psychological and at the end, Picard is rescued and shouts out, "THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS" as his people come to save him. He later tells another of the crew (not sure who) that he actually believed there were 3 lights.

Now obviously there is a different mechanism at work in that he was tortured and coerced into changing his perception of the shared reality. His will was forcibly broken. What Fox News and the right wing bubble does is more insidious. There is not really coercion, but there is repetition and appeal to emotion. We liberals also have appeals to emotion and to principles of openness, tolerance, fairness, equity, etc... Our side backed by much more empirical evidence, has attributed the ills of our society to the greed of some of the wealthy and to their appeals to racism, sexism, and other negative attributes of vulnerable groups.

Emotions tend to overwhelm logic and reason. I agree with you about conservatives tending to lack critical thinking skills, but it is a little more simple and at the same time complex. What right wing talkers are very good at is keeping their consumers "activated" by which I mean that their emotional state is in consistent arousal. When you are scared or angry (which are the two emotions that right wingers rely on) logical responses and critical thought are pushed to the back because you think that you are being threatened and survival becomes key. So it is, as you said, that there is a lack of reasoning, but it is exacerbated by basically a perpetual limbic response.

[Honeycombe8]

10. I think maybe you missed his point.

He IS saying that their reality isn't reality. It's because they are unaware of the 8,000 lies. Faux News is their reality.

I don't know why you'd have a problem with that. It's the truth

[ooky]

17. What had me scratching my head was that 19% of MSNBC viewers think that

Trump is "honest" about anything. I think they are confused about what channel their TV is on.

[PatSeg]

21. I noticed that and I'm thinking

that a lot of these polls are utter BS or the people being polled are just lying.

I'm also not buying that 46% have a positive view of Donald Trump (not sure if that was voters or likely voters). Where did they take the poll, Mississippi?

I'm tired of these polls being considered "news". We should quit take them so seriously.

[harumph]

18. One's personal beliefs should not run counter to demonstrable facts - i.e., glaciers are melting

at a much faster rate than 20 years ago... the earth is warming. In 2017, 39.7 million
people estimated to live in poverty etc. In the US, upward mobility is measurably less
than in some countries with a more controlled economy. maxrandb is right... a 3 year old
may believe that a candy bar is $1000.00 - but that is not a fact, whatever those on DU
who are philosophically inclined want to argue. The OP is not talking about more
esoteric beliefs that may be compartmentalized and do not exclude verifiable facts.


When their coastal homes are flooded - the crops fail - and the power companies can't generate enough
electricity during the really really hot summers - maybe the scales will fall from their eyes.
By then it's too late.


Just want to add that Todd is just a chicken shit who won't come out and say that folks that
consume nonfactual shit come to believe nonfactual shit until they truly have "shit for brains."

[UpInArms]

20. Just because someone nelieves something

Does not make it true