What are those black spots on peoples forheads on msnbc?

[yortsed snacilbuper]

[Fresh_Start]

1. ashes for Lent

i didn't see the images but its the right day for it

[Bantamfancier]

2. What's today?

[zaj]

76. Guess what day it is!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. It's Ash Wednesday, the first day of Lent,

and some people, mostly Catholics but also a few other denominations, get the sign of the cross marked on their foreheads in ashes.

[GP6971]

4. Today is Ash Wednesday. n/t

[targetpractice]

5. Years ago, I worked at Kinko's...

And, on this day each year, some of my co-workers would try to be super helpful when customers would come to the counter after making self-serve copies by saying, "Dude, you have some toner on your forehead."

Every year.

[lindysalsagal]

8. I. Love. That.

[Raster]

26. ...

[yortsed snacilbuper]

6. michael caputo has one?

And he's a scumbag!

[SCantiGOP]

18. Pelosi had hers during a TV appearance

[tblue37]

69. And Santorum, of course. nt

[pnwmom]

103. And Ted Lieu. Catholics make up a fifth of the population. n/t

[democratisphere]

133. Michael Caputo was celebrating ASS Wednesday.

[lindysalsagal]

7. Tribal branding.

I'm perfectly serious.

[smirkymonkey]

9. Even though I know what it is, I am always surprised every year the first time I see someone

with black ash on their forehead, and then it dawns on me that it must be Ash Wednesday.

[HipChick]

10. Me too...

For a while my brain wonders if its a cult or something...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

12. be nice to your brain

It IS a cult.

[MH1]

75. so, what do you think of Hindus wearing the bindi? nt

[Drahthaardogs]

120. Oh that's okay. Also, don't speak ill of Muslims on DU

Even though they still stone women to death...that's racism. But fuck Catholics and the Pope...

[phylny]

206. You are absolutely correct.

Seems there are double and triple standards.

[rusty fender]

15. It's a death cult

I grew up Catholic so I can say this with 100% certainty

[malaise]

16. Join the line

[SCantiGOP]

19. I too am a recovering Catholic

Definitely why I am an ex-Catholic; probably why I am so anti-religion.

[malaise]

24. I recovered ages ago

[dubyadiprecession]

102. I'm a recovery Jew...

And you thought you had it bad!

[jrthin]

113. I am in that line. Went to Catholic school all the way through high school.

I had to go to mass every Sunday or points would be deducted from my conduct grade. Needless to say I failed conduct each semester. I told the nuns that once I graduated from high school I would never set foot in a church again. I have more or less kept my promise. I go to funerals. I also add, I loathe Catholicism as I've lived it up close.

[rampartc]

30. also a recovering cathaholic and ash wednesday is certain

a favorite bartender would mark ashes on his customers, most of whom were still drunk from mardi gras, on ash wednesday. i don't know if he still does that since orleans parish outlawed smoking.

"for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." genesis 3

[rusty fender]

101. Funny

Marked with sign of the butt

[Shemp Howard]

163. A death cult? Really?

I'm not a Catholic. And on a scale of 0 to 10, my respect for the Catholic Church is zero. Call them a cult if you want. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

But to call them a "death cult", that is a filthy smear.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just missed the news. Maybe the Catholic faithful have been going around killing anyone who makes fun of the Pope. And maybe they have been going around killing people who miss mass on Sunday.

Or maybe you went over the line just a bit.

[rusty fender]

164. Depends on how you define death cult

So much of the Catholic Church’s emphasis is on death and resurrection in heaven. There are tons of prayers that plead to Jesus/God to get the prayerful to heaven.

There are many charitable things that the Church does, but the bent of its philosophy is about death.

[lindysalsagal]

170. Catholics are so happy that death is the good part to them.

Yeah I don't gettit.

[whathehell]

181. Uh, no.. That's one of the silliest statements I've heard in awhile,

So before you presume to speak for "catholics" you might want to speak to one -- I went through 12 years of Catholic school with no death wishes experienced or observed.

[whathehell]

185. Or how erroneously you interpret the religion..

Looks like you're one of those. My condolences.

[whathehell]

180. Oh, "death cult" my ass..

I grew up Catholic too, and can, with certainty, call your claim, 100% nonsense.

[TeamPooka]

17. Cult plus time equals religion. nt

[MH1]

78. Hindus wear the bindi all the time

(at least as far as I've noticed)

Ash Wednesday is just one day. The ashes mark is usually a bit larger and sloppier than a bindi. Still, it's a similar concept and probably shouldn't be called "cultish" unless one opposes all organized religion as "cultish", AND think it's appropriate to denigrate others' cultures as such.

[whathehell]

182. Exactly...Many religions, like Judaism & Islam, for instance,

require special clothing and dress at certain times and one doesn't see them being slammed as "cults" here.

[UniteFightBack]

11. I made sure to let everybody know I'd be late today due to ash wed....my co worker asked and what

ash does an atheist use and I said the almighty hemp ash.

[harumph]

13. "Remember that you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

[DeminPennswoods]

20. I was somewhat surprised that reporters were on

camera with the ashes on the foreheads. I'm sure they could've gotten them at an Ash Wed evening service after their work day was completed.

[Mariana]

127. Why would they do that?

Getting ashes applied after work and then going straight home defeats the purpose. The whole point of wearing a visible religious symbol is to make sure other people can see it.

[Dorian Gray]

199. This is ridiculous

Why SHOULD they go to an evening mass?

Why is it a problem if they wear ashes? Even on television?

[rickford66]

21. I saw a drive by Ash on the Go today.

[Buns_of_Fire]

22. It tells me that I missed Mardi Gras again. nt

[GulfCoast66]

23. When I was younger it meant I had a hangover!

[pnwmom]

25. Given how much we all hate the Narcissist-in-Chief, I don't understand

why so many here are mocking a Judeo-Christian symbol of repentance and humility.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-dr-james-a-kowalski/ash-wednesday-mortality-h_b_832584.html

Not all Christian churches observe Ash Wednesday or Lent. The Bible does not mention Ash Wednesday or the custom of Lent. Ash Wednesday, unknown in the Eastern Church, developed only in the West. But traditions of repentance and mourning in ashes date back at least to the time of 2 Samuel 13:19; Esther 4:1; Job 2:8; Daniel 9:3 in the Hebrew Bible; and Matthew 11:21 speaks about it.

[lunamagica]

43. +1

[MH1]

81. People mock what they don't understand.

I should say, "ignorant people mock ...".

Even if we don't agree with a belief system, we should be respectful to its adherents. At least and particularly in a harmless expression of their belonging.

[lindysalsagal]

172. except that religion is in no way harmless

so neither are their symbols

[MH1]

178. nothing in human culture is harmless

so ffs don't single out religion.

Even atheists act like a "cult" at times. Going forward in this post, "religion" includes atheists.

Every religion has its symbols. Every religion has adherents who are assholes and some who are evil. Every religion that I know of also has people who are trying to live moral lives as they understand morality, and who generally are nice people and are not assholes.

So don't pick on one religion's symbols over another. Except of course for the symbols that actually mean "hurt other people", like the Nazi swastika, or KKK hoods. Is it really that hard to tell the difference?

[lindysalsagal]

198. Religion claims to be divinely inspired. That's what needs to be exposed.

Lots of evil hides behind religion.

[stopbush]

116. Because Christianity is misogynistic, racist, bigoted, anti-human bullshit?

I’m guessing that’s the reason.

[LAS14]

126. It most certainly is not. Some mislead people are, but Christianity is not. nt

[Mariana]

132. The majority of Christian voters in 2016 cast their ballots for Trump.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

[LAS14]

146. Like I said, misled. Not Christian. nt

[Mariana]

159. You get to decide who's a Christian and who isn't?

Fascinating.

[Cold War Spook]

196. If they try to live by the teachings of Jesus then they are Christians.

Matthew 25: 35-40 is a good start. Otherwise, how can they be Christians.

[pnwmom]

184. The majority of CATHOLICS did not. Evangelical Christians heavily voted for Trump,

and many of them don't view Catholics as Christian.

Catholics were closely divided.

Now another poll, the American National Election Study (ANES), as tweeted by Mark Gray, has concluded that a plurality of Catholics voted for Clinton (48 percent to 45 percent). The ANES showed 74 percent of Hispanic Catholics voting for Clinton and only 19 percent voting for Trump. But 56 percent of white Catholics voted for Trump and 37 percent for Clinton.

In other words, in comparison with the exit poll, ANES shows fewer white Catholics voting for Trump and more Hispanics voting for Clinton. Latino Decisions, a polling firm that focuses on the U.S. Latino population, agrees that the exit poll underestimated the percent of Latinos voting for Clinton.

Most journalists don't care about the ANES results because they are released months after the election when the media has moved on. In addition, some of the media have a vested interest in the exit poll's credibility since they paid for it. But for academics, ANES is considered the gold standard of survey research. Academics complain that the media exit polls use people with little training or experience in conducting surveys.

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/faith-and-justice/pollsters-confused-about-catholic-voters

[lindysalsagal]

173. I've always been on the receiving end of religious hatred.

Since I started asking them for proof. They hate that.

[MicaelS]

131. Do you apply the same belief system to Islam and Judaism?

They are all "People of the Book".

If not, why not?

Are you just a Christianity basher, or an all-around anti-religious bigot?

[pnwmom]

183. Do you bash all religions or just Christianity?

[stopbush]

209. All religions are bullshit.

[pnwmom]

215. Where are your posts bashing people who mark Yom kippur?

Or Muslims who participate in fasting days?

[stopbush]

216. I don't owe you anything. I write about what I choose to write about.

Get used to it.

[pnwmom]

218. Right. You only bash Catholics or other Christians here. n/t

[lindysalsagal]

171. When I start seeing evidence of repentance and humility in religious people

I'll start going a little easier on their fairy tales.

[YOHABLO]

27. There's nothing that says they have to leave it on. It's a bit sanctimonious.

Chris Cuomo had his ashed forehead, as well as (Santan's mistress) Laura Ingram. It's as if they're saying: "look at me, look at me, I went to mass today because I'm a (good?) practicing Catholic". Maybe Laura Ingram will give up speaking for lent. Wouldn't that be great?

[lilactime]

28. That's exactly how he looked. I was raised Catholic and that's EXACTLY

the mindset.

And back in those days the ashes were just a little gray smudge, not like a smear of road tar.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Yes, the ashes grew proportionally bigger and darker as market share declined

I used to get them as well. Two quick smudges of light ash from the priest and on your way. They were barely noticeable.

[Demit]

31. As I recall, it depended on whether the priest had just dipped his fingers in the ash

as he went down the line. The first person after would have the darkest smudge, then the smudges would get progressively lighter.

[lilactime]

32. None of the smudges looked like Cuomo's though.

[Demit]

35. Lol, you should've come to my parish

It also varied from priest to priest.

I guess you're wanting to make a negative statement about Cuomo, but really. Broad statements like that are silly.

[lilactime]

36. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. Don't tell me what I'm "trying" to do.

[Snerd]

144. Different everywhere

I've been a Catholic for nearly 60 years.
attended Ash Wednesday services in myriad parishes.
Every priest does it differently.

[pnwmom]

190. Welcome to DU, Snerd!

[pnwmom]

108. Back in those days and still today it all depends on the priest. n/t

[onenote]

40. Is that what Pelosi was doing?

Weren't we celebrating (appropriately imo) the decision by Congress to allow Muslim members to wear their hijab on the floor of Congress?

This thread -- or at least the part of it critiquing Catholics for their religious observance -- is one of the dumber things i've seen on DU lately.

[pnwmom]

48. Thanks, onenote. Not just dumb. There's some meanness here. While there are plenty

of things Catholics could be rightfully criticized for, wearing a visual sign of repentance and sorrow isn't one of them.

[BuddhaGirl]

74. Exactly!

All this complaining about Catholics leaving theirr ashes on is just dumb.

There are far more important things to worry about.

And I say this as a very lapsed Catholic.

[wryter2000]

82. Check out the religion forum

OTOH, don't.

[MicaelS]

95. "Critiquing" Christianity is one of the main sports around here. n/t

[whathehell]

188. Yes, while being excruciatingly "PC" about other religions..

Gross hypocrisy.

[LAS14]

124. Aptly stated. nt

[whathehell]

189. Um, yeah.. If we can allow hijabs every day, we can certainly

allow a small spot of dust once a year.

[Dorian Gray]

200. Agree

I don't usually get offended when Catholicism is criticized or ridiculed. (Justly or fairly so because of the bad behaviors of the leadership.)

But this? Bc of ashes?

It makes me want to roll my eyes.

This is what people want to mock? Criticize? Rant about?

[WillowTree]

87. There's nothing that says that we have to remove it, either.

Is that what you say about Muslim women who wear a hijab in public? "It's as if they're saying: 'look at me, look at me, I'm a (good?) practicing Muslim' ".

Or how about "'look at me, look at me, I'm a (good?) practicing Jew" about men who wear a yarmulke?

Or "look at me, look at me, I'm a (good?) practicing Hindu" about men from India who choose to wear a turban?

Frankly, I find your comments to be far more sanctimonious.

[MaryMagdaline]

34. As a child, I used to wash them off once I got to school

I think people today are a little bit “look at me.” I did see Biden with ashes a few years ago. Maybe it’s catholic and Lutherans way of spotting one another in the crowd. So few left these days.

Not to be a bummer but Jesus sort of put the Kebash on such public displays of “sackcloth and ashes.” Something like “put on your best coat and clean up when you are fasting. Only the hypocrites wear sackcloth and ashes in the public square. Go pray in private where only your Heavenly Father sees you.”

[Demsrule86]

39. Episcopalians do it too.

[MaryMagdaline]

41. They do!

[wryter2000]

77. We sure as heck do

I was at two services yesterday. One as altar guild and one as choir. I got a double dose.

[pnwmom]

49. We were supposed to wear it the rest of the day. There is nothing new about this. nt

[wryter2000]

84. That exact reading is read on Ash Wednesday

I keep mine on for as long as I can because I love everything about Easter, including Lent. I'd do it if no one else saw me all day.

[MaryMagdaline]

111. Even though I no longer practice, I still like the message of Ash Wednesday

a reminder of our mortality is not a bad thing

[xmas74]

97. So do Methodists.

I am still very angry with the Traditional Path and for the first time in many years I did not attend Ash Wednesday.

It feels strange.

[LongtimeAZDem]

37. Biden has been doing it for at least a decade

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1251794/Kay-Burley-sorry-mistaking-Joe-Bidens-Ash-Wednesday-cross-bruise.html

[dalton99a]

46. Obama poked him in the forehead

[Demsrule86]

38. Ashes for Lent...yesterday was the beginning of lent...

called ash Wednesday.

[Greybnk48]

42. We saw two women last night who looked like they had been shot

Last edited Fri Mar 8, 2019, 10:48 AM - Edit history (1)

right in the middle of the forehead. We were leaving a restaurant, and they were seated in the waiting area as we passed by. I said to my daughter after we passed, "that woman looks like she was shot in the head!" My daughter said, "The other one too!" I replied "I wonder if it's a Walking Dead party?"

Then it hit us and we almost died laughing. We had the rest of our party sneak back in and take a peek and everyone agreed it was an unusual mark--round and gunshot looking, not the usual smudged cross! Priest with a sense of humor?

Then we had the exact same conversation as the OP raised. There sure were a lot of hosts and reporters, especially on MSNBC, with black smudges on their foreheads. I don't recall that in the past, to that extent.

Edit: I'm a Catholic, for the record, or I was for years. In my middle and old age I walked away from religion. I simply FORGOT it was Ash Wednesday.

[scheming daemons]

44. How do grown adults not know what ash Wednesday is?

I'm an atheist and I know what the heck it is.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

56. Well, I couldn't remember why people would do that,

so I posed a question?

I don't remember anything about ash Wednesday either, wasn't trying to hurt anybody's feelings.

[pnwmom]

59. You weren't mocking anybody. You were just asking a question.

Long ago, a young woman in my office wanted to know what Lent was.

The one person who knew, besides the Catholic, was the Jew -- who knew it was like their Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur.

[LiberalFighter]

45. Lawrence O'Donnell is Catholic

He didn't have the mark on last nite.

[pnwmom]

47. So what? His Catholic guest, Maria Kumar, did. nt

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2019, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

[LiberalFighter]

67. Didn't you comment that you are suppose to wear it the rest of the day?

Also, someone commented that there were reporters wearing it. My statement was that Lawrence as a Catholic wasn't doing it.

[OnDoutside]

129. Normally you would get it at an early morning mass, so it's often long gone by lunchtime. It's not

compulsory either.

[pnwmom]

152. Not every Catholic does. Catholics aren't a monolith. n/t

[pnwmom]

50. Some of the above posts are the equivalent of mocking Jews for Yom Kippur,

the Jewish Day of Repentance.

So is that okay on DU now?

It seems to me more like something Trump would want to do. The last thing he would ever do is wear of sign of sorrow and repentance.

[radical noodle]

52. I agree

We shouldn't bash people for their religious beliefs.

[zipplewrath]

60. Whole groups for that

There are a couple of groups here that think that is their whole purpose. I got banned from one of them for objecting to the practice.

[lindysalsagal]

175. When the beliefs are make-believe they deserve bashing. The people deserve respect.

And no one has ever proved one speck of religion to be the tiniest bit true.

[radical noodle]

193. Although I was raised in a religious household

I tend to agree with your assessment of religious beliefs. Unless they are proselytizing I would never bash someone for adhering to tenets of their religion that are physically obvious such as the Ash Wednesday cross, the clothing differences for Muslims, a cross necklace, and so on. If they stop me on the street and try to force the sign of the cross on me, that's entirely different.

True or not, it's true to them. We're inclusive, not exclusive, as Democrats.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

53. +1

[BuddhaGirl]

79. +1000

[MH1]

83. +1000

I really hate to see "progressives" devolve to this.

There is plenty wrong with various religious organizations. But mocking someone's cultural expression really reflects poorly on DU.

I don't think the o.p. was intentionally doing that - there are a lot of people here who might not be aware of Ash Wednesday. Just as I for a long time wondered about the dot on the forehead of many Indian people I know.

[pnwmom]

89. I agree that the OP didn't do that. But others here have. n/t

[MH1]

104. Oh I totally agree. nt

[RelativelyJones]

155. Also agree

[Retrograde]

88. Thank you

I often wonder how many of the people who dis Catholics for their practices are the same ones who come out vehemently for the rights of Muslim women to wear hijabs or restrictive clothing, or are the first to yell "anti-Semitism" when someone criticizes AIPAC.

It seems some religious practices are open to mockery here (e.g., Mormons and their "magic underwhere&quot , while others are apparently above criticism. My rule of thumb: if you're going to make a remark about some religion, before you post, substitute another group to see if it sounds bigoted. If so, don't post.

[pnwmom]

92. Good idea, Retrograde. nt

[MicaelS]

96. Bang on 100%

Christianity Bashing is a unofficial sport around here, no doubt about it.

[GaYellowDawg]

114. I'm not sure how "un"official it is, lol

I'm on the cusp when it comes to religion. Some days I want to believe, and some days I think it's nonsense. I am weary of so many Christians in this country acting as if they are under attack or oppressed, and responding by being in everyone's face about it. "I DARE to follow JESUS!", etc.

I think that people on DU tend to be defensive of religions other than Christianity and critical of Christianity because Christianity has been in a position to be oppressive in this country. I think if this country was full of moderate Muslims that acted the same way many Christians have, the same people would vociferously defend Christianity and criticize Islam at every turn.

It's understandable, but I think defending freedom of religion and being inclusive should apply to as many creeds that align with what we find morally defensible.

Personally, I find the ashes a bit silly and showy, but it does me no harm to have people doing it, so why not?

[MicaelS]

119. Unfortunately, repression of Christianity has, and still happens....

In other parts of the world, (China and the ME) and this gives Christians in the rest of the world, ammunition to say "See it is STILL happening."

The harsh fact is modern Christians belief that they are under attack or oppressed, goes back to the beginnings of the faith. It is part and parcel of the faith. It REALLY did happen back then, and unfortunately like many oppressed peoples throughout history, as soon as Christians got real power, they became oppressive. Must be part of the human condition. Look at the ME.

I agree with what you wrote. Good post.

[RobinA]

117. It's The Same

as any rule for mocking people. The closer a group gets to the perception of being in power, the more they are allowed to be mocked. I'm not agreeing, I'm just saying. It certainly is open season on white people. And men. It's never OK to mock children, because they aren't anywhere near power. It's pretty OK to mock Catholics, just look at the reaction to the Lincoln Memorial incident, but not Muslims because they are an out of power minority in this country.

[theboss]

140. You can mock Christians and Jews to your heart's content here.

That's been trued since the site's founding.

You can't say anything negative about Islam though.

[MosheFeingold]

179. Concur

I am clearly not Roman Catholic, but I am disgusted that people think it’s OK to attack a persons religion in the manner done in this thread.

It’s disgusting and hateful.

Each one of you who did this should be shamed at yourself.

[SidDithers]

205. Are religions protected from mocking?...

Religious beliefs, like other beliefs, are learned beliefs. Nobody is born a Catholic, or a Jew, or a Republican, or an anti-vaxxer. They learn and choose those opinions.

We mock other learned beliefs and opinions all the time.

Why should religious beliefs, opinions and behaviours be any different?

Sid

[pnwmom]

207. I don't see people mocking Jewish or Muslim religious practices here. As I said,

Ash Wednesday is similar to Yom Kippur.

[SidDithers]

208. ...

Sid

[sarisataka]

210. There may not be mocking

Of Judaism although there is quite a bit of criticism of Jews in general by conflating Jews with the policies of Israel.

I have never seen criticism or mocking of Islamic beliefs. Apparently the Islamic beliefs in "magical thinking" and "invisible sky beings" is different the the similar Christian beliefs and the Islamic version is acceptable and should be tolerated rather than mocked at every opportunity.

It will be interesting to see the posts in a little under 40 days when Easter arrives. More interesting would be to take posts related to Ramadan and compare/ contrast with posts of a major Christian holiday.

[theboss]

213. I don't think you can have a discussion about Islam here

That thread would get reported and locked immediately.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

51. On Ash Wednesday, ashes to go with a little extra sparkle for LGBT Christians

Blast from the past.

On Ash Wednesday, ashes to go with a little extra sparkle for LGBT Christians

Braddock Road is my closest Metro stop. I saw a sign offering "ashes to go" at the Ballston Metro stop yesterday afternoon.

On Ash Wednesday, ashes to go — with a little extra sparkle for LGBT Christians

By Julie Zauzmer

March 1 at 12:39 PM

Smearing her thumb across 6-year-old Genevieve Dalton’s forehead, the Rev. Robin Anderson repeated the solemn words of Ash Wednesday: “From dust you came. To dust you shall return.” ... Then Genevieve whirled away from the pastor, her forehead twinkling. “I really like glitter,” she proclaimed.

Genevieve, like thousands of other Christians nationwide, got her ashes on this Ash Wednesday with a side of sparkles. The Glitter Ash project, created by New York nonprofit Parity, encouraged clergy to mix glitter into the ashes this year, to represent the inclusion of LGBT people in Christian life.

“People are responding with such joy that they can show their faith and show that they are LGBT,” said the Rev. Marian Edmonds-Allen, executive director of Parity. “LGBT people are people of faith, too. … On the day, Ash Wednesday, when Christians are publicly Christian, we are going to be publicly queer.” ... They encouraged heterosexual supporters of LGBT inclusion to wear the glitter ashes, too.

[Seriously, I am giving up Donald Trump for Lent. Here’s how.]

Glitter in the ashes, Anderson wrote on a whiteboard, is “a symbol of the gritty, glittery, scandalous hope that exists within all of us.” She propped the board up in front of the Braddock Road Metro station entrance, and offered sparkly ash to a stream of morning commuters. ... In Alexandria, Va., most of the people who stopped at Anderson’s “ashes to go” station outside the Metro entrance were looking only for ashes, not glitter. “I won’t have time to go to Mass today,” quite a few of them muttered. .... In Alexandria, Anderson said the project appealed to her church as soon as they heard about it. Commonwealth Baptist Church’s first statement on its website is, “All are welcome, no exceptions,” and it is affiliated with the Alliance of Baptists in large part because that small denomination is affirming of LGBT Christians.
....

Julie Zauzmer is a religion reporter. Follow @JulieZauzmer

[Aristus]

54. My sister-in-law's mother wore a smudge of ash on her forehead last night.

She's Lutheran, and as liberal as you would want anyone to be.

[jalan48]

55. I don't remember news anchors doing this when I was growing up. Is this a new thing?

[pnwmom]

58. No. nt

[theboss]

66. Not a lot of Catholics in high tv positions

I honestly think for a long-time the most prominent Catholic on tv was William F. Buckley.

[jalan48]

73. That makes sense. Kennedy was the first Catholic President as I recall.

[pnwmom]

93. First and only, though Catholics make up a fifth of the population. nt

[jalan48]

98. The Supreme Court is packed with Catholics though.

[pnwmom]

99. Yes, it is, and I disagree with that. It's happened mostly

because the R's pick them as anti-choice votes. (Though Sotomayor proves that's not always the case.)

[whathehell]

187. It seems there are now. n/t.

[oldlibdem]

57. It's for people who believe in magic

To let other people know they believe in magic too! And post removed in 3,2,1...

[jalan48]

61. LOL-Adam and Eve, virgin birth, etc.

[bahrbearian]

62. Voted ,to leave post

[oldlibdem]

65. thank you

[Brawndo]

142. Yep, nailed it.

Personally, I appreciate it when they wear outward signs of their faith, it lets me know who is a serious adult and who isn't.

[lindysalsagal]

174. What? You don't believe in unicorns? The Tooth Fairy? Santa? The God Thor?

How about Leprechans??????

[oldlibdem]

214. Mayby the great pumpkin and the easter bunny

and that's about it.

[Duppers]

217. My son taught undergrad physics classes as...

...part of his assistantship which paid his grad school tuition at a well-known university. He said of the students who came to class with outward religious symbols: "inevitably, they struggled with the class material." Apparently, critical reasoning was not their forte.

That quote was from his text to me last night after I complained about a tv journal who, imo, was being unprofessional when appearing on camera with an Ash Wednesday cross mark on his forward.

[oldlibdem]

219. I remember an undergraduate philosophy class I was In and the Professor was asking for proof

of a God. Right on cue a girl next to me pulled a bible out of her book bag the size of a Webster's dictionary and held it aloft like a magic wand. Most everybody laughed, but I just sat there aghast thinking that in this day and age in a public college her answer was bronze age mysticism! I never talked to her and in the proceeding semesters I never saw her so I assume she dropped out. And like you said in your response Duppers, Religion is all they know and when confronted with another theory they struggle.

[gopiscrap]

63. I don't think it is appropriate that they go on screen

with the ashes from Ash Wednesday on their forehead

[pnwmom]

86. Inappropriate to wear a symbol of repentance once a year? Is it inappropriate

for Ilhan Omar to cover her hair when she goes onscreen?

[gopiscrap]

121. for her no, that's a part of her dress every day of the year

[pnwmom]

154. It's a religious symbol she wears every day of the year. Why does that make it better?

It's still an outward symbol of religious beliefs.

[RelativelyJones]

156. You have a very selective idea of what is appropriate.

[WillowTree]

110. Is it appropriate for Ilhan Omar to wear her hijab when she's on TV?

[gopiscrap]

122. yes because that is a part of her permanent dress

[harumph]

123. Ashes on the forehead for repentence dates to the 11th century (at least)

So, it's pretty important to Catholics and at least as important as a hijab.

[WillowTree]

130. And the Ash Wednesday ashes are a part of a Catholic's permanent faith.

No more or less inappropriate than any other expression of one's faith.

Which, by the way, is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

[pnwmom]

191. It is a visual expression of her personal beliefs, just like a Christian wearing ashes on Ash Wed.

[whathehell]

186. Precisely -- Good point.

Then again, you may not heard the unofficial "rule" that only some religions are allowed to be trashed here.

[Mariana]

137. I don't think it's necessarily inappropriate.

However, we shouldn't pretend they're doing anything other than showing off.

[gopiscrap]

141. that's why it annoys me

[theboss]

147. Showing off what exactly?

That a priest rubbed something on their head?

I don't think anyone does this to be "cool."

[pnwmom]

192. That's false. When I used to do it I didn't do it to show off. As an introvert, when I used to

do it, it felt embarrassing, but I did it anyway. The whole point is to remind the person that they are not THAT important.

[Inkfreak]

202. sounds like you are in religion for the wrong reasons.

[Inkfreak]

201. get over it.

[grumpyduck]

64. Given what time some of the TV people have to be at work,

in the morning, I have to wonder if some of the signs were applied by the makeup dept.

[xmas74]

100. Larger cities have multiple services

Almost around the clock,coordinated so anyone wanting to participate can without interference from a work schedule. I had a friend who was a rn at a hospital on graves. A local priest would go to the chapel on Ash Wednesday so anyone working or waiting could receive them,even at 3 am.

[Enoki33]

68. I try not to bash people for their religious beliefs. Just happen to think

it is a very personal thing and should not be publicly displayed. Seems not only sanctimonious, but a marketing strategy aimed at young impressionable minds.

[onenote]

70. Do you feel that way about Tlaib's hajib?

[Enoki33]

71. Tlaib's hijab is part of her normal dress.

[onenote]

72. It's part of her religious identity

Just as wearing ashes on Ash Wednesday is part of many Catholic's identity. You want one closeted away.

[Enoki33]

107. Not sure what you meant by one closeted away. Let me be clear. I have never

been in the church. My parents wanted me to make my own decision and my view of organized religion, particularly the Catholic Church, is that it is in reality a multinational corporate conglomerate that practices a cult like form of brainwashing.

[onenote]

109. Apparently you don't think Catholics who observe Ash Wednesday should be seen in public.

[Enoki33]

135. Don't think l said that - simply that l thought it was sanctimonious.

[WillowTree]

139. More sanctimonious.......

........ than telling someone which of the traditional expressions of their faith (which in no way harm anyone or infringe on anyone else's space, beliefs, health, property or time) are appropriate and which they should hide as if they're ashamed of them?

[Enoki33]

143. Try not to twist what l said. Read what l originally wrote again. Have a nice day.

[onenote]

160. What you said is that you think the wearing of ashes "should not be publicly displayed."

Care to explain what you actually meant by what seems to be a pretty clear statement?

[Inkfreak]

203. Twisting not needed. Reads pretty simple.

[pnwmom]

106. Her normal dress includes an outward sign of her religious beliefs. n/t

[ripcord]

177. She only wears it because she believes in magic, right?

[LongtimeAZDem]

91. I do

[LongtimeAZDem]

90. Agreed

[pnwmom]

105. It is no different from Ilhan Mobar and her headwear. Both are outward signs

of personal beliefs.

[harumph]

125. It's not sanctimonious - it dates at least from the 11th century.

Every year it is done - and you guys are criticizing people for it??

[MicaelS]

134. Would you say that to a Jew wearing a yarmulke ?

If not, why not?:

[Throck]

80. A lesson in religious diversity.

[putinwork]

85. Catholics

Ash Wed.

[samnsara]

94. I wondered that too. I thought they were all bruised..then remembered it has....

to do with Easter. Then all i could do was stare at their forehead.

[Doodley]

112. IMO, news show hosts should not wear religious imagery.

It shouldn't be about them. Keep to the facts, don't bring your own baggage into it, be a professional.

[WillowTree]

115. And yet.......there's still that pesky First Amendment.......

.....inconveniently guaranteeing freedom of expression and free exercise of religion. What were those silly Founding Fathers thinking?

[Mariana]

138. Exactly.

They get to wear their visible religious symbols on TV, and we get to say what we think about them wearing their visible religious symbols on TV.

[theboss]

145. Your thoughts on th hijab?

Please share

[Mariana]

162. Why?

At no time have I said it's inappropriate or wrong for people to wear visible religious symbols. To the contrary, I very clearly supported their right to do so.

[Doodley]

149. How do you feel about a newscaster wearing a MAGA hat? Or wearing Scientology Sea Org garb?

These news guys should at least appear to be neutral.

[pnwmom]

151. This has nothing to do with politics.

Joe Biden and Rick Santorum don't have much in common except they are Catholics.

And Catholics were closely divided in the 2016 election, but a majority supported Hillary.

[Doodley]

157. Scientology is a religion.

I question the need for news presenters who bring their own baggage to the TV screen. After 45 years of watching BBC news and other British news, I am not familiar with making it about the presenter. IMO quality news should have presenters that are a blank canvass without religious or political partiality and without symbols of religious or political affiliation.

[pnwmom]

158. Scientology began as a Sci-Fi novel, and then the leader decided

he would make more money if he turned it into a religion, and get the tax exempt status, and the court went along with it.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-is-scientology-tax-exempt

Jamie Kirchick offers a vigorous defense of Germany's hard-line against Scientology. Along the way, Kirchick reminds us how wacky it was of the IRS to reverse years of precedent and grant Scientology recognition as a church. Whatever else it is, Scientology is a profit-seeking enterprise, a fact not altered because its profits derive from telling fabulous fictions.

In 1967, the IRS revoked the Church’s tax-exempt status, a decision reasserted by each and every American court to which the Church brought challenges over a subsequent 25-year-period. A 1984 U.S. Tax Court ruling, for instance, found that the Church “made a business out of selling religion” and that Hubbard and his family had diverted millions of dollars to their personal accounts. The Los Angeles Superior Court, meanwhile, deemed Hubbard “a pathological liar” driven by “egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.”

Desperate for legitimacy, in 1973 Scientology launched Operation Snow White—a covert operation aimed at infiltrating governments. Scientology agents broke into IRS headquarters, bugged its offices, and dispatched private investigators to spy on individual agents—all in hopes of blackmailing officials. All this was permitted under Scientology’s “Fair Game”doctrine, which, according to Hubbard, demands that Church critics “be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.” The plot was uncovered in 1977, and Hubbard’s wife and 10 other Church officials were sentenced to jail. Hubbard was named an unindicted co-conspirator.

But in 1993, Scientology finally did achieve tax-exempt status from the IRS—a massive victory in the Church’s quest for mainstream acceptance. It did so, according to the New York Times, only “after an extraordinary campaign orchestrated by Scientology against the agency and people who work there” that included the hiring of “private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities.” Scientology even set up a front group, the National Coalition of IRS Whistle-blowers, to battle the agency. As if to emphasize the capriciousness of the IRS’s decision, just a year before the agency’s reversal, a decision by the U.S. Claims Court rejected Scientology’s case for tax-exemption, citing “the commercial character of much of Scientology,” its virtually incomprehensible financial procedures” and its “scripturally based hostility to taxation.

[Doodley]

166. The point is?

[pnwmom]

167. Not every group that tries to call itself a religion gets that IRS designation

and I don't think Scientology should have. They only got that designation after a long campaign of harassment and intimidation against individuals who worked for the IRS. From the Daily Beast article I just linked to:

But in 1993, Scientology finally did achieve tax-exempt status from the IRS—a massive victory in the Church’s quest for mainstream acceptance. It did so, according to the New York Times, only “after an extraordinary campaign orchestrated by Scientology against the agency and people who work there” that included the hiring of “private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities.” Scientology even set up a front group, the National Coalition of IRS Whistle-blowers, to battle the agency. As if to emphasize the capriciousness of the IRS’s decision, just a year before the agency’s reversal, a decision by the U.S. Claims Court rejected Scientology’s case for tax-exemption, citing “the commercial character of much of Scientology,” its virtually incomprehensible financial procedures” and its “scripturally based hostility to taxation.

[onenote]

161. So to be clear, you think observant Muslims who wear the hajib

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2019, 07:59 PM - Edit history (1)

or observant Jew who wear yarmulkes or observant Sikhs or members of other religions whose observant members wear head covering should be, effectively, blackballed from certain jobs.

[Doodley]

165. One should dress for the job.

[onenote]

168. In what other jobs would such dress be inappropriate

Should employers be able to discriminate against certain religions by saying that the dress that members of that religion wear is not appropriate?

Should a clothing store not allow someone wearing a hijab to work there because they want their employees to dress in the clothing that the store sells? (On a non-religious front, should a store that only sells men's clothes be able to refuse to hire women?)

[Doodley]

194. Yes, yes, and yes.

[SoCalDem]

118. When I was in High School they had to let us "go to church"

so I and my fellow heathens would book it and waste the 2 hours they gave us..and then put cigarette ashes on our heads when we returned..

and yes, I knew even back then, that I was headed for hell

[3catwoman3]

128. Now THAT is...

...ROTFLMAO funny!

[lindysalsagal]

176. But the rest of us heathens will be there, too!! yay!

NOt.

[theboss]

136. Does anyone (besides me) know where the ashes come from?

It's one of my favorite parts of Ash Wednesday.

[kskiska]

153. They come from the palms from Palm Sunday, which were burned.

[Inkfreak]

204. I do!

But only because my wife is catholic and i am not, so i asked her awhile ago. Friday’s are great during lent. I get a whole pizza to myself. I support her religious freedom...and my freedom to load that pizza up with as much meat as possible. And no veggies.

[Blue_Tires]

148. Did people regularly appearing on TV always keep their ashes?

Because I sure don't remember...

[theboss]

150. There were very few people regularly on tv

And few of them were Catholic.

So, no, Walter Cronkite didn’t wear ashes.

The only person I could imagine doing this was Ed McMahon but I don’t see him as devout.

[akraven]

169. Ash Wednesday to commemmorate the palm fronds

waved during Jesus' walk toward Gethsemane. I so remember them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday

[KY_EnviroGuy]

195. Well damn. All along I thought it was to mark them as present for school.

....... ...... ........

[blogslut]

197. I like the idea of Ash Wednesday and Lent.

I also like the idea of Purim.

A Muslim neighbor once brought me dates during Ramadan.

I like to light a tealight during Diwali.

I am forever an Agnostic but am comforted by the gentler rituals of the religious.

[theboss]

212. The rituals of Catholicism are very beautiful and powerful

As an adult, it what draws me to it.

The theology of it often pushes me away.

[IronLionZion]

211. Some Catholics want you to see it. I always washed it off.

As a recovering Catholic I figure I'm going to hell anyway so I even stopped going to church a few years ago.

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-life/what-is-ash-wednesday-why-do-christians-celebrate-it.html

Each year, Ash Wednesday marks the beginning of Lent and is always 46 days before Easter Sunday. Lent is a 40-day season (not counting Sundays) marked by repentance, fasting, reflection, and ultimately celebration. The 40-day period represents Christ’s time of temptation in the wilderness, where he fasted and where Satan tempted him. Lent asks believers to set aside a time each year for similar fasting, marking an intentional season of focus on Christ’s life, ministry, sacrifice, and resurrection.