Fri Mar 8, 2019, 05:19 PM

maxsolomon (29,925 posts)

The Awful Truth: every President kills.

It's not negotiable. It's part of the job description when you run the American Empire, and the issue is whether you kill more or less than your predecessor. You cannot reverse course and survive in office. Just ask Carter.

Which is why it is essential to elect a person with an Ethical center to run our empire. Like Obama, who I proudly voted for, knowing he would order deaths.

BUT NOT TRUMP.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-cancels-obama-policy-reporting-drone-strike-deaths-n980156

Obama got handed an Empire that was killing Muslims at an unprecedented rate, in a spasm of revenge for 9/11, in 2 wars of choice that shattered multiple nations, destroyed ancient cultures, ancient artifacts, and created multiple terrorist offshoots: Boko Haram, ISIL, Al Qaeda in the Sahel, etc.

How many Muslims did Bush II kill? A million?

Obama at least made that killing as discriminate as he could, but in 8 years, he couldn't even close fucking Gitmo. The murdering was still indiscriminate, and untold numbers of innocents died, but can anyone say it was as bad as President Cheney? Whoops, sorry, I slipped. I mean Bush II.

Omar's got a point, but it's drowning in naivete.

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7 replies	Author	Time	Post
The Awful Truth: every President kills. (Original post)	maxsolomon	Mar 2019	OP
Murder by Numbers	Reader Rabbit	Mar 2019	#1
Sting's implying it's for fun.	maxsolomon	Mar 2019	#2
A privileged opinion	ChicagoRonin	Mar 2019	#3
Priveledge is also a harsh reality.	BannonsLiver	Mar 2019	#5
Not true at all. I didn't say they SHOULD kill in our name.	maxsolomon	Mar 2019	#6
Wait, you mean the world isn't all rainbows and moon pies?	BannonsLiver	Mar 2019	#4
I feel like we're heading back into the Clinton/Sanders battle again.	maxsolomon	Mar 2019	#7

Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 05:31 PM

Reader Rabbit (2,599 posts)

1. Murder by Numbers

Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In history's great dark hall of fame
All our greatest killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name

But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you don't need to lift a finger of your hand

Because it's murder by numbers, one, two, three
It's as easy to learn as your ABC's
Murder by numbers, one, two, three
It's as easy to learn as your A, B, C, D, E
1, 2, 3, A, B, C
1, 2, 3, A, B, C
1, 2, 3, A, B, C

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Response to Reader Rabbit (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 05:53 PM

maxsolomon (29,925 posts)

2. Sting's implying it's for fun.

But that's a simplification.

I don't think Obama enjoyed it, even killing Bin Laden. But it still happened.

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 06:03 PM

ChicagoRonin (626 posts)

3. A privileged opinion

Not saying you're wrong. Personally, I don't believe war will ever be completely eradicated and at some point a world leader will have to order the use of deadly force.

At the same time, your opinion strikes me as one from someone who can comfortably assume neither they nor any of their friends or family may end up collateral damage.

My mother's side is from Seoul and she lived through the Korean war. And plenty of non-combatants were needlessly killed by US forces. Sometimes unintentionally. Sometimes indifferently.

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Response to ChicagoRonin (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 06:08 PM

BannonsLiver (14,872 posts)

5. Priveledge is also a harsh reality.

And like war, it won’t be going away anytime soon. That can be good or bad depending on your perspective.

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Response to ChicagoRonin (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 06:27 PM

maxsolomon (29,925 posts)

6. Not true at all. I didn't say they SHOULD kill in our name.

I'm saying no President has the privilege of NOT killing in our name, because America is what it is, not our high-minded rhetoric about what it should be. Every President has killed. Whig, Dem, or Republican.

Innocents will always die in military actions; that's why we shouldn't recklessly engage in them. The Iraq War was a War Crime, pure and simple, and we are all accountable as Americans. So were our actions in Grenada and Panama. We need to collectively WTFU as to who we actually are as a nation and how we act on the planet, and drop the bullshit.

You're correct that none of my family will be collateral damage in America's foreign wars. Omar's family is, both from American drones, but also from the Shabab.

How do we act ethically in the world? How do we stop those killing innocents without more killing?

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Response to maxsolomon (Original post)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 06:05 PM

BannonsLiver (14,872 posts)

4. Wait, you mean the world isn't all rainbows and moon pies?

Everything isn’t black and white? There is nuance?

That can’t be true. I’ve been assured by several here if it wasn’t for Obama and his drones we would live in a utopia where skittles would grow on trees and we’d all be able to whistle zippidy do dah out of our rear ends.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 06:30 PM

maxsolomon (29,925 posts)

7. I feel like we're heading back into the Clinton/Sanders battle again.

Clinton, the warmongering Neocon who strangled puppies for fun, whereas Bernie would just finger-wag ISIL into freeing the Yazidi.

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